Sanders' supporters upset at Biden surrogates for saying to go out and vote in a race that wouldn't be happening if Bernie wasn't being stubborn makes zero sense to me.
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Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Sanders' supporters upset at Biden surrogates for saying to go out and vote in a race that wouldn't be happening if Bernie wasn't being stubborn makes zero sense to me.
Yeah I don't really understand this at all.
If the election was still going on across states (and they shouldn't have) its because there are 2 candidates vying for votes. Bernie hasn't dropped out and thats fine, its his prerogative but if states are going to hold elections then people were going to go out and vote.
Blaming Biden for people showing out to go and vote for him is honestly pretty ridiculous.
1) There are hundreds of other races happening outside of the Democatic presidential primary jesus christ
2) People are pissed because Biden surrogates went on TV and lied about the CDC saying it was safe to go out to vote in person on the 17th. Just yesterday multiple poll workers in Broward County were tested positive for COVID-19. Public health officials there are warning voters at those precincts to seek medical advice. Based on contemporary reporting on the virus in the days leading up to the 17th, it was entirely predictable that this would happen by anyone paying attention, as anyone working on Biden's campaign would be. It was disgusting and callous to say the least and it shouldn't get pushed under the rug just because things are getting worse.
Yvette isn't even a Biden surrogate. 🤷♂️ Might as well use someone who's actually on Team Biden.
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So people shouldn't have voted? If people took precautions it'd be perfectly safe. We are in forced confinement in a lot of states because people won't listen unless forced too.
Personally I don't see how this wouldn't have also turned you off of Sanders. It's clear from his pretty bad failure to attempt to speak to large democratic voter bases (and his Clintonite trait of promoting any idiot that bends the knee for him while shunning progressive people/orgs who don't) that, as far as he's concerned, it's got to be him and no one else. AOC could run for POTUS and he'd be out there blasting her for trying to lose the race for him. Hell, just look at how his people view Warren! She's now persona non grata to his circle; a vicious snake whose only goal in life is to usurp Sanders, the One True Progressive.
And I say this as someone who would've voted Sanders in the primary 2nd (after Warren, but she was still in it when my state went).
Biden tweeted out to go out and vote if you're healthy.
Not fully understanding how the virus works and not taking precaution on how to prevent more infections.
Not fully understanding how the virus works and not taking precaution on how to prevent more infections.
It's amazing how we went from Bernie~>Biden~>Bernie again.
Just one week ago people were saying this about Bernie.
I mean to be fair *far* more people are pushing Bernie to get out right now than Biden. As Bernie has already effectively lost the primary and is incapable of beating Biden at this point. There has been no real movement at all for Biden to drop out in the wider public or online.
You can't really go off places like this. Biden's going to continue to dominate the remaining primary elections when they start up again.
Not this late into the process.
Also, has anyone had such a sudden *losing to winning* transition before?
No theere hasn't. Not after a candidate built an insurmountable lead this deep into the primaries. The public has moved on and accepted Biden as the nominee.
There is no reason whatsoever to assume Biden isn't going to continue dominating Bernie in the primaries. Remember there has been A TON of early voting in the remaining big states like Ohio. And Biden is dominating the early vote. There almost certainly has been enough early vote in Ohio to say Biden has already won that primary and that is one of the biggest remaining state.
Biden has likely banked up enough votes to lock down that wins many remaining primary states. Biden is likely going to win every single remaining primary state by at least 10%.
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Not that I know of, but the opposite's definitely happened.
I see you everywhere on the forum running interference and basically saying "Biden is gonna be the nominee nothing to see here". What I'm wondering is, do you want Biden to be the nominee in light of the rape accusations? And please don't make this about Sanders.
I rather not have Biden OR Bernie.
But that is completely meaningless as Biden has won the primary. The primary is effectively over. Biden has an insurmontable lead and banked up early votes.
Hm I don't really see any of that at all. Bernie for example is on the record as urging Warren to run in 2016 and only ran when she declined. You can find clips all the way back in 2016 where he's saying, "it's not about me, it's about building a progressive movement." The result of that concept of trying to build a progressive movement is that instead of him launching "Bernie Democrats" is the fact that people like AOC have said they ran as Democrats with a socialist message in 2018 because they were inspired by Sanders' campaign. To me Bernie looks more like a reluctant leader of a new movement that doesn't yet have a strong enough base of successors. AOC, Omar and co are absolutely the persons that will take up this movement after this campaign.
Why did Sanders run in 2020? I think things changed from 2016 to now. In 2016 he was running despite being an incredible long shot, because no other progressive would, to force a progressive agenda into the table. He out performed all expectations. In 2020, despite there now being other progressives (eg. Warren), he could genuinely look at his performance in 2016 and his big, established support base and genuinely think, "huh maybe I'm actually the best shot to get these ideas into the white house."
Let's be clear too, there is a clear specific reason why those snake emojis suddenly appeared. It wasn't some general partisan antipathy to Warren. It came out of a specific moment where she accused Sanders of being a sexist as her campaign was stalling. Probably one of the lowest blows of the entire primary, especially coming from an apparent ally.
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Our Revolution is Sanders' non-profit shadow PAC. Not really surprising to see them doing the right's work for them.
Biden already did that when he went around sexually assaulting women.
#wheresjoe is making a comeback! Took a few days off but I guess it's time to dust off a tried and (not) true tactic.
Doubt there will be any more debates. Biden has signaled that we've had enough debates and he is looking forward to move on.
Of course after I specifically told you not to you bring up Bernie. Shouldn't you be clamoring for the party to put pressure on Biden so you don't have a rapist as a nominee?
lmao "shadow pac"
Perhaps. But guess what, Bernie isn't going to be the democratic nominee. Even if Biden exited the race (which isn't happening), Sanders isn't going to be the nominee. Having somebody who can't win more than 30% of the electorate is not an option.
What would you call it? It's a non-profit that functions almost exactly the same. Can raise unlimited sums and doesn't have to disclose its donors. If you're going to be against dark money in politics, don't ignore the issue when Bernie Sanders benefits from them.
Ok? How about we don't nominate a rapist? Biden needs to drop.
Our Revolution only had 6 donations over 5k and raised less than 2 million dollars in 2019, of which most was spent on local races. Calling it "Sander's shadow pac" is a gross way of trying to associate with actually nefarious groups.
I like that the answer to "he's likely to have raped someone" is that Biden is winning and Sanders is losing.
With everyday that trump speaks on Covid 19 the more I hope we just have Biden cut off this guy's head in November and be done with this nightmare.
Just another example of the establishment circling the wagon to protect their golden son.
Okay. Who would you suggest we nominate?
Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't have to disclose where the money comes from and is allowed to raise unlimited sums.
I'll pose this to you as well. Who would you propose we nominate in lieu of Biden? Don't try and accuse me of trivializing sexual assault.
I can see what you're doing and I'm not interested in having this bad faith conversation.
Any not rapist candidate. Sanders should be the first choice since he's in second place, but if not him literally anyone else.
Honestly, making Biden drop out is just going against the will of the voters at this point. There were similar discussions when Trump started to clean up in the primaries in 2016, and the consensus was that you have to follow the candidates the voters are with, no matter what. Short of Biden dropping dead or losing the ability to communicate, he'll be the nominee.
And while some voters are into the candidate, there is a huge chunk of voters that really don't care who the candidate is as long as their ideology needs are somewhat fulfilled. It's tough. It's rude. But it's the reality of politics in America.
Nothing bad faith about it. Undisclosed contributions are undisclosed contributions. Doesn't matter how little or how much. Do as I say, not as I do.
But they're delegates pledged to Biden. Why would they switch to someone who is completely ineffective in building a coalition because he doesn't/refuses to appeal to suburban moderates and African American voters?
The goal is to take back the White House and Senate in November. I don't know who does that.
Sure bud.
Wow, it's almost like people voted before the recent allegations. Furthermore, you're trying to change the subject from the fact that Biden should be dropping out because he's a rapist to your opinion on Bernie Sanders and what constitutes a coalition, so I'm done answering to you.
I don't think most democratic voters wanted a rapist.
Is there any good explanation for, if Biden ends up dropping for whatever reason and Bernie is still in the race, why nominating someone other than Bernie makes sense? Even taking the "somebody who can't win more than 30% of the electorate" charge at face value, anyone else being nominated as a replacement would have significantly less or even 0.0% if it gets really wacky and someone like Cuomo gets propped up. The idea that since Joe Biden is a "moderate", he should be replaced by someone less odious that occupies a similar ideological lane. However, this primary has made it clear that not many are voting along ideological lines so this really only makes sense if you're an online politics nerd or have some other form of pundit brain. A plurality of voters circled the bubble for Vice President Joe Biden, not some vague concept of "a moderate", because they like him, trust him, like his policies, consider him a safe bet, or a multitude of other reasons. None of those traits are going to be magically projected onto another candidate, especially one that wasn't in the race to begin with.
The reality is that online Bernie supporters arent a monolith and some have decided to support him in november while others are against that. So the reaction will either be "i understand" or "i understand but I disagree"
ofc there a small group that will call bernie an imperialist or whatever but if you pay attention to them youve already lost.
They have some fairly deep ideological differences. Delegates aren't going to come around on Bernie's policies just because Biden drops out.
I mean, 60-70% of the electorate will have voted against Bernie by that point.
Plus, the catalyst for Biden dropping will be a Bernie supporter, so I'm not sure that's a wound that will heal. Basically, it'll fracture the party.
Many of the details surrounding Trump's sexual assault allegations went public during the primaries and during the general as well. What happened? Enough people still held their noses and voted to elect him. The ugly truth is that types of things don't have the impact that they do in other spaces like sports, entertainment, and the music industry. Presidential Nominees become "too big to fail" once they gain enough political support during the primaries, and voters operate on that premise.
If you thought Democrats were going to be morally superior given the current circumstances and what's at stake currently, I've got some bad news for you.
This isn't a positive thing but I don't think most democratic voters or the media are going to care about something that happened nearly 30 years ago. Obviously the implications aren't great but I believe that's the reality.
You're working under the assumption that republican voters and democratic voters behave in the same way.
If we're going by cold political analysis even if most democratic voters are not going to care, there's a chance enough might care to the point that you lose the general elections.
That's possible and IMO likely, but I'm talking about voters not delegates. It's more about the optics of the party and a small minority of privleged delegates basically ignoring the entire primary process and putting up someone that either lost even more decisively than Sanders or someone who wasn't even in the race to begin with. It might not matter at all given the... current state of things but its delusional to think that there won't be a large chunk of voters who will see it for the farce that it is.
60% of the electorate have voted "against" Biden as of current popular vote tallies. Not sure what point you're trying to make with this.
But it's not the electorate that would decide this, it's the delegates. If it were to happen which I don't think it will. It's just too easy for people to dismiss allegations in an election year.
It also might depend on if people will even hear about it. No one on TV has talked about it, as far as I know.
But I do think the reality is that dem voters generally won't care. So much for years of blasting republicans for turning a blind eye to morally disqualified candidates.
Look at the responses we've seen here so far, now imagine older people.
Given the fact that there were credible allegations already out there (though not as severe as this), and plenty of footage of Biden doing creepy stuff and people have come out in droves to vote for Biden, yes, I'm working under the assumption that Democrats are behaving very similarly.
The rationale that I've been seeing online is that it's not just Trump's behavior that's bad, it's his policies. So for them it's easier to vote for a bad man with a good platform vs a bad man with actively hurtful policies.
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