Democratic Presidential Primaries & Caucuses |March OT| Last Tuesday was 1000 years ago, old news no one cares about (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

Crocodile · Mar 21, 2020

Bill Clinton - pussy grabber extraordinaire, friend of Jeff Epstein and poster boy for 3rd Way Democrats put Breyer and progressive icon RBG on the Supreme Court

Obama, blood brother of Biden, put Kagan and Sotomayor on the Supreme Court

Putting aside that a Democratic Senate (hopefully we get one) would have veto power on any justice Biden tries to appoint, why do some people think Biden would appoint a shitty justice to the Supreme Court? As long as we get a Dem WH and a Dem Senate, the judges we put up are going to look pretty identical.

Sandstar · Mar 21, 2020

Crocodile said:
Bill Clinton - pussy grabber extraordinaire, friend of Jeff Epstein and poster boy for 3rd Way Democrats put Breyer and progressive icon RBG on the Supreme Court

Obama, blood brother of Biden, put Kagan and Sotomayor on the Supreme Court

Putting aside that a Democratic Senate (hopefully we get one) would have veto power on any justice Biden tries to appoint, why do some people think Biden would appoint a shitty justice to the Supreme Court? As long as we get a Dem WH and a Dem Senate, the judges we put up are going to look pretty identical.

They claim that so they can continue to justify their "both sides are bad" narrative, and check out of the process, not vote, then spend the next 4 years complaining about how bad things are if Biden loses. It's the same reason why they talk about "earning my vote"

Deleted member 5666 · Mar 21, 2020

Crocodile said:
Putting aside that a Democratic Senate (hopefully we get one) would have veto power on any justice Biden tries to appoint, why do some people think Biden would appoint a shitty justice to the Supreme Court?

It's because they want an excuse to not feel guilty for by proxy voting for Trump to win re-election.

Chaos Legion · Mar 21, 2020

Sign My Guestbook! said:
Yeah. Priority must be to counter-act what Trump/McConnell did and replace all the old SCs with younger ones. McConnell is what he is, and part of that equation is "excellent politician." Dude knows he can't chance having his party's power replaced by the other side just because their judges got too old.

I hate how good of a politician McConnell is. How are the leaders chosen? If we take back the Senate, could Warren be chosen to be the majority leader over Schumer?

Sandstar · Mar 21, 2020

Chaos Legion said:
I hate how good of a politician McConnell is. How are the leaders chosen? If we take back the Senate, could Warren be chosen to be the majority leader over Schumer?

He's not actually a good politician. It's *super* easy to not do anything. A child could not bring bills to the floor.

Kirblar · Mar 21, 2020

Chaos Legion said:
I hate how good of a politician McConnell is. How are the leaders chosen? If we take back the Senate, could Warren be chosen to be the majority leader over Schumer?

Warren wouldn't be picked, no. (and this isn't a bad thing) Forceful issue advocacy and the leader's chair (which is constantly negotiating) don't really go together well.

Warner would be far better than Schumer though.

mugurumakensei · Mar 21, 2020

Sandstar said:
He's not actually a good politician. It's *super* easy to not do anything. A child could not bring bills to the floor.

Yep. It's not McConnell. It's that Republican voters as a whole tend to be a bit better at showing up to elections at all levels.

Sandstar · Mar 21, 2020

mugurumakensei said:
Yep. It's not McConnell. It's that Republican voters as a whole tend to be a bit better at showing up to elections at all levels.

That's because the republican party, and it's propaganda apparatus (of which fox news is just the most obvious) have convinced their voters that the democrats are evil incarnate. Sure, roy moore's a pedophile, but he's not a democrat! is what they think. That's why doug jones only won by 10k votes against an actual pedophile. So of course they come out to vote, they have to stop the evil demonrats from doing all those scary things Fox News tells them about! Like....I dunno, having the government run medicare.

SmokeMaxX · Mar 21, 2020

A bit late to the party, but uhh if you think Republicans would vote for Sanders... lmao. Take one of those cheap $20 flights to anywhere and actually talk to a Republican. They're more likely to believe Clinton owns a pedophile pizza parlor than that COVID19 is a real virus.

Cipherr · Mar 21, 2020

El Bombastico said:
DONALD TRUMP PUT AN ALLEGED RAPIST ON THE SUPREME COURT.

Say it again for the people in the back. Not that I think those that need to hear it will. But still. The shit matters. And folks are quick to change the subject when the supreme court comes up. And I know its because there's just no defending allowing it to continue to deteriorate at this pace. No defense for that at all.

chadskin · Mar 22, 2020

Can't believe Bernie still hasn't dropped out lmao. Even for a politician he is amazingly full of himself.

TwoDelay · Mar 22, 2020

chadskin said:
Can't believe Bernie still hasn't dropped out lmao. Even for a politician he is amazingly full of himself.

Well considering Biden's whereabouts at the moment, it seems as if Bernie is the only one running.

Poodlestrike · Mar 22, 2020

What if, just as a thought, we didn't needle each other this early on a Sunday?

Zombegoast · Mar 22, 2020

SmokeMaxX said:
A bit late to the party, but uhh if you think Republicans would vote for Sanders... lmao. Take one of those cheap $20 flights to anywhere and actually talk to a Republican. They're more likely to believe Clinton owns a pedophile pizza parlor than that COVID19 is a real virus.

And the GOPs attack on Obama was that he was a "socialist". There's a lot more for the GOP to attack Biden on than Sanders.

TwoDelay said:
Well considering Biden's whereabouts at the moment, it seems as if Bernie is the only one running.

Is he? Are we really going to repeat 2016 again?

Tracygill · Mar 22, 2020

What's going on with Biden? Why is he not doing any events or interviews? When do you think Biden will be seen again? What is he doing right now and why?

jack_package_200 · Mar 22, 2020

Tracygill said:
What's going on with Biden? Why is he not doing any events or interviews? When do you think Biden will be seen again? What is he doing right now and why?

Biden trashes Trump over coronavirus response: 'Step up and do your job, Mr. President'

On a conference call with reporters, Biden laid out all the things he felt Trump had done wrong — and what he'd do differently.

www.nbcnews.com

Deleted member 5666 · Mar 22, 2020

TwoDelay said:
Well considering Biden's whereabouts at the moment, it seems as if Bernie is the only one running.

Yet nobody voted for him last Tuesday regardless despite Biden not being in public after the debate.

Hard to say he is still running when his base of support has dwindled down to about 3 random dudes on Twitter, no?

TwoDelay · Mar 22, 2020

Cheebo said:
Yet nobody voted for him last Tuesday regardless despite Biden not being in public after the debate. Hard to say he is still running when his base of support has dwindled down to about 3 random dudes on Twitter.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination

www.realclearpolitics.com

by my calculations, Biden's base of support is approximately 4.59944751381 random dudes on twitter

Zombegoast · Mar 22, 2020

jack_package_200 said:
Biden trashes Trump over coronavirus response: 'Step up and do your job, Mr. President'

On a conference call with reporters, Biden laid out all the things he felt Trump had done wrong — and what he'd do differently.

www.nbcnews.com

So trying to talk big? Like I've seen his plan for COVID-19 on his site and that's assuming he's going to be president BEFORE we have an outbreak.

millions are expected be infected and we're potentially heading to a great depression

Bronx-Man · Mar 22, 2020

#WheresJoe

Poodlestrike · Mar 22, 2020

Zombegoast said:
So trying to talk big? Like I've seen his plan for COVID-19 on his site and that's assuming he's going to be president BEFORE we have an outbreak.

millions are expected be infected and we're potentially heading to a great depression

...What?

They asked where he was, he was just on a conference call with reporters.

saenima · Mar 22, 2020

Cheebo said:
Yet nobody voted for him last Tuesday regardless despite Biden not being in public after the debate.

Hard to say he is still running when his base of support has dwindled down to about 3 random dudes on Twitter, no?

Yeah he's not running at the moment. Too busy being a human being raising money to combat covid-19.

Now how Biden goes
Nobody knows

Sharpeye · Mar 22, 2020

So we moved on from dementia to "Where is Joe?", I wonder which Republican talking point you people will spread next.

TwoDelay · Mar 22, 2020

Poodlestrike said:
...What?

They asked where he was, he was just on a conference call with reporters.

pretty long conference call i guess

THube · Mar 22, 2020

Biden people: if this is the frontrunner's response to COVID-19 I am straight up paralyzed with fear. I don't give a shit if you think Bernie is still in or not, I've accepted he isn't. What the fuck is happening.

Poodlestrike · Mar 22, 2020

TwoDelay said:
pretty long conference call i guess

THube said:
Biden people: if this is the frontrunner's response to COVID-19 I am straight up paralyzed with fear.

He had like... a whole thing, just a few days ago. Immediate short term relief plans and outlined ideas about working with Congress.

Guys, the primary candidates are not always going to be front page news.

Titanpaul · Mar 22, 2020

I understand and agree with the frustration of Bidens response. We need better.

But we also already voted for Biden. Unless something happens, vote Biden in November. If you don't, get off this board.

Equippedwithtowel · Mar 22, 2020

criticism of joe seems to be conflated with right wing talking points an awful lot

maybe instead of it all being a conspiracy the people mixing the koolaid have eyes and can see why there is a legitimate question to be raised, even if disingenuously.

Titanpaul said:
I understand and agree with the frustration of Bidens response. We need better.

But we also already voted for Biden. Unless something happens, vote Biden in November. If you don't, get off this board.

so there is legitimate concern but we should just shut up till november because it's him or trump?

this totally worked so well last time...

TwoDelay · Mar 22, 2020

Poodlestrike said:
He had like... a whole thing, just a few days ago. Immediate short term relief plans and outlined ideas about working with Congress.

Guys, the primary candidates are not always going to be front page news.

They should be seen though right??? i'm not going insane when I say it's weird that he hasn't been seen for, as you said, a few days? He is running for the most powerful position in the world, kinda expect more transparency

Hopfrog · Mar 22, 2020

I am not sure what people would like Biden to do. He has been responding to what Trump and the administration have done. He can't really continue to campaign because of COVID-19, he is not a legislator or in an actual governmental position at the moment so he can't affect policy that way. If he tries to go out every day and hit back at Trump and the administration it could backfire as he could easily be attacked as trying to undermine the current president in a crisis.

Titanpaul · Mar 22, 2020

Equippedwithtowel said:
so there is legitimate concern but we should just shut up till november because it's him or trump?

this totally worked so well last time...

No? I said vote. I didn't say don't ask for better.

Poodlestrike · Mar 22, 2020

Equippedwithtowel said:
criticism of joe seems to be conflated with right wing talking points an awful lot

maybe instead of it all being a conspiracy the people mixing the koolaid have eyes and can see why there is a legitimate question to be raised, even if disingenuously.

I think that this is the wrong frame to look at right wing talking points with. They've never once cared about the legitimacy of the question, just the appearance of legitimacy.

The primary election is basically over. The news is 100% focused on COVID. It's really not that unusual for a candidate to not be in the headlines for a little while, especially if their campaign is transitioning messages.

TwoDelay said:
They should be seen though right??? i'm not going insane when I say it's weird that he hasn't been seen for, as you said, a few days? He is running for the most powerful position in the world, kinda expect more transparency

Transparency on what, the walls of his house? What do you think he's hiding by "not being seen?"

saenima · Mar 22, 2020

Titanpaul said:
I understand and agree with the frustration of Bidens response. We need better.

But we also already voted for Biden. Unless something happens, vote Biden in November. If you don't, get off this board.

Are you implying that Era is exclusive to Biden voters? How about foreign people? Do they have to vote for Biden in their countries as well?

Zombegoast · Mar 22, 2020

Equippedwithtowel said:
criticism of joe seems to be conflated with right wing talking points an awful lot

maybe instead of it all being a conspiracy the people mixing the koolaid have eyes and can see why there is a legitimate question to be raised, even if disingenuously.

There's a huge difference between Sanders' and Biden's appearance.

One is going on stream and doing fundraising for the COVID-19 outbreak

While the other just playing politics.

Bronx-Man · Mar 22, 2020

A lot of arguing over the past 5 years has been liberals being visibly upset at there being a political force more left than them after decades of believing they were the mighty opponents of Republicans and champions of the downtrodden, when in reality you've spent your adult life rooting for a neoconservative party.

Orayn · Mar 22, 2020

I think a lot of people are only half-joking with some of this Biden stuff because it's sliding from being extremely bad PR to legitimately raising concerns about his well-being and ability to continue as a candidate. The concern to humor ratio will only increase the longer he remains completely absent from any sort of public appearance.

Equippedwithtowel · Mar 22, 2020

Poodlestrike said:
I think that this is the wrong frame to look at right wing talking points with. They've never once cared about the legitimacy of the question, just the appearance of legitimacy.

The primary election is basically over. The news is 100% focused on COVID. It's really not that unusual for a candidate to not be in the headlines for a little while, especially if their campaign is transitioning messages.

ehh that's a distinction without a difference, appearance of legitimacy is the only actual metric of legitimacy since we aren't all papists that can appeal all the way up the chain.

Just because the right is disingenuously pushing narratives does not mean the questions that are asking are bad questions.

if fact they are probably chosen exactly for that purpose

however the individual observer is by no means obligated to refrain from asking the same questions just because bad actors are. Think about the long term world where we all held to refraining from asking these questions? It would give the right even more power to shape discourse.

Blue Skies · Mar 22, 2020

Bronx-Man said:
A lot of arguing over the past 5 years has been liberals being visibly upset at there being a political force more left than them after decades of believing they were the mighty opponents of Republicans and champions of the downtrodden, when in reality you've spent your adult life rooting for a neoconservative party.

Ok cool you've analyzed it

so what happens next

do we:
vote for biden
Vote for trunp
Vote third party
Not vote

if it's anything but the first, then good luck electing an actual progressive any time this century, after republicans erode democracy away

Deleted member 2109 · Mar 22, 2020

Didn't Biden say he and his campaign would have a streaming operation up by tomorrow and that we'd see more of him than we ever wanted to?

"Hiding him because of his well being" is just more bs like the dementia crap.

Poodlestrike · Mar 22, 2020

Equippedwithtowel said:
ehh that's a distinction without a difference, appearance of legitimacy is the only actual metric of legitimacy since we aren't all papists that can appeal all the way up the chain.

Just because the right is disingenuously pushing narratives does not mean the questions that are asking are bad questions.

if fact they are probably chosen exactly for that purpose

however the individual observes by no means obligated to refrain from asking the same questions just because bad actors are. Think about the long term world where we all held to refraining from asking these questions? It would give the right even more power to shape discourse.

I'm inclined to disagree that it's a distinction without a difference. The nature of the question is shaped to ensure that the dialogue focuses on intra-Democratic infighting over and above the actual scope of the issue. "Where's Joe Biden" is a question with no answer, because like... this is not the first time it was asked, and answered previously, and it came back anyway - it was tending on twitter before, remember? Ergo, the truth of it is irrelevant - the point is in the asking, which is fine if we're talking about philosophical introspection but less than useful in politics. That's why they picked up stuff like this, and that's why it's important not to give it any oxygen.

TwoDelay · Mar 22, 2020

Blue Skies said:
Ok cool you've analyzed it

so what happens next

do we:
vote for biden
Vote for trunp
Vote third party
Not vote

if it's anything but the first, then good luck electing an actual progressive any time this century, after republicans erode democracy away

Do you think that blindly supporting biden and drowning out people with criticism of him with "what?!!!? you gonna vote for trump" is going to help get a progressive elected? Vote for Joe Biden, criticise the ever living hell out of Joe Biden, protest for Joe's entire term, keep fighting. People shouldn't, and will not, be happy with taking the table scraps but we will take them while fighting hard to get the big meal. The democrats are evil just like the republicans, less evil (significantly less) but still evil. So yeah, the neoconservatives don't deserve anyone's respect.

Equippedwithtowel · Mar 22, 2020

Poodlestrike said:
I'm inclined to disagree that it's a distinction without a difference. The nature of the question is shaped to ensure that the dialogue focuses on intra-Democratic infighting over and above the actual scope of the issue. "Where's Joe Biden" is a question with no answer, because like... this is not the first time it was asked, and answered previously, and it came back anyway - it was tending on twitter before, remember? Ergo, the truth of it is irrelevant - the point is in the asking, which is fine if we're talking about philosophical introspection but less than useful in politics. That's why they picked up stuff like this, and that's why it's important not to give it any oxygen.

intra party stuff ends at the point of the general or the "defacto general" that we are clearly in

at that point it's all performance and if you can't meet disingenuous criticisms without shedding support among potential supporters then you are a not a good (or at least are a lacking) candidate

the point of the question is in the asking but it serves to highlight a very valid point namely "where tf is joe"

this should be a sign that his team made a mistake in minimizing his appearance post the last round of primaries instead of concluding that the wrong questions are being given oxygen. That's just not how political discourse works, refusing to entertain these things doesn't solve the problem and just serves to alienates potential supporters who don't want to unreservedly get on board in march.

Chaos Legion · Mar 22, 2020

Hopfrog said:
I am not sure what people would like Biden to do. He has been responding to what Trump and the administration have done. He can't really continue to campaign because of COVID-19, he is not a legislator or in an actual governmental position at the moment so he can't affect policy that way. If he tries to go out every day and hit back at Trump and the administration it could backfire as he could easily be attacked as trying to undermine the current president in a crisis.

I think people actually understand this, but are choosing to still criticize him for it.

TwoDelay said:
Do you think that blindly supporting biden and drowning out people with criticism of him with "what?!!!? you gonna vote for trump" is going to help get a progressive elected? Vote for Joe Biden, criticise the ever living hell out of Joe Biden, protest for Joe's entire term, keep fighting. People shouldn't, and will not, be happy with taking the table scraps but we will take them while fighting hard to get the big meal. The democrats are evil just like the republicans, less evil (significantly less) but still evil. So yeah, the neoconservatives don't deserve anyone's respect.

Who's not evil, then?

Tracygill · Mar 22, 2020

Sharpeye said:
So we moved on from dementia to "Where is Joe?", I wonder which Republican talking point you people will spread next.

I think the dementia is still a concern that's not going away as long as Biden does not improve.

As for republican talking points maybe it will be the "How will you pay for it?" republican talking point or perhaps it will be the "free choice is very important" republican talking point.

No, wait maybe it will be something about how great private healthcare is and how everyone needs access* to affordable** healthcare*** and how disruptive it would be if the current system was changed.

Poodlestrike · Mar 22, 2020

Equippedwithtowel said:
intra party stuff ends at the point of the general or the "defacto general" that we are clearly in

at that point it's all performance and if you can't meet disingenuous criticisms without shedding support among potential supporters then you are a not a good (or at least are a lacking) candidate

the point of the question is in the asking but it serves to highlight a very valid point namely "where tf is joe"

this should be a sign that his team made a mistake in minimizing his appearance post the last round of primaries instead of concluding that the wrong questions are being given oxygen. That's just not how political discourse works, refusing to entertain these things doesn't solve the problem and just serves to alienates potential supporters who don't want to unreservedly get on board in march.

See, I would agree with the take that it's a political mistake. I would not agree with some of the takes in this thread which are... uh... not making that claim. They're saying that it's a crippling weakness and possibly a sign that he's dying or something. If I thought that the first conversation could take place without the last two, I'd be on the other side of this, but I don't, because it's thus far proven impossible.

Blue Skies · Mar 22, 2020

TwoDelay said:
Do you think that blindly supporting biden and drowning out people with criticism of him with "what?!!!? you gonna vote for trump" is going to help get a progressive elected? Vote for Joe Biden, criticise the ever living hell out of Joe Biden, protest for Joe's entire term, keep fighting. People shouldn't, and will not, be happy with taking the table scraps but we will take them while fighting hard to get the big meal. The democrats are evil just like the republicans, less evil (significantly less) but still evil. So yeah, the neoconservatives don't deserve anyone's respect.

You know why the republicans win so much?
It's becuase they don't fight with themselves as much as we all do

One day it's "moderates"
then it's "neo-libs"
Now it's "neo-cons"

what they should really be called is "winning democrats"

also "lefter political force" is funny, because you're only a "political force" if people are voting for you, and some work needs to be done on that end.

Biden was maybe my fifth choice this primary, and I'm totally ok with Bernie, my fourth choice, losing to him, because, I'm not in this for Bernie, Warren, Biden, Beto, I'm in this for beating Trump and having a democratic senate. Biden is looking like our best chance at that.

Equippedwithtowel · Mar 22, 2020

Poodlestrike said:
See, I would agree with the take that it's a political mistake. I would not agree with some of the takes in this thread which are... uh... not making that claim. They're saying that it's a crippling weakness and possibly a sign that he's dying or something. If I thought that the first conversation could take place without the last two, I'd be on the other side of this, but I don't, because it's thus far proven impossible.

not every critical voice is going to be correct

but for every poster in here engaging in a little facetious posting there are dozens if not hundreds of normies posting even more hyperbolic shit all over social media

if there's nothing to worry about then there's nothing to worry about but clearly speculation is being encouraged by the current situation

RussTC3 · Mar 22, 2020

Sharpeye said:
So we moved on from dementia to "Where is Joe?", I wonder which Republican talking point you people will spread next.

Don't worry, whenever they decide this goal post shift has run its course they'll find another.

SmokeMaxX · Mar 22, 2020

Biden was able to demolish Sanders without campaigning in several states. I think he's just trying to see how much he'll win by without even appearing at all.

Xaszatm · Mar 22, 2020

RussTC3 said:
Don't worry, whenever they decide this goal post shift has run its course they'll find another.

So when will "how will you pay for it" and "free choice" be removed from your stock phrases? Because those are right wing points that the democratic party has had no problem using.

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