Democratic Presidential Primary |February OT| It Can't be Worse than Iowa, Right? (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

Who's Your Pick for the Democratic Nominee (Round 2)

  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 1,536 80.7%
  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 23 1.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 230 12.1%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 60 3.2%
  • Amy Klobuchar

    Votes: 12 0.6%
  • Mike Bloomberg

    Votes: 39 2.0%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 4 0.2%

  • Total voters
    1,904
  • Poll closed .

Fiye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,811
Texas

well isn't this interesting
Damn I remember saying the DNC shoulda been held accountable for this and people were telling me to fuck off because it was 100% the IDP's fault.

Nah Tom Perez resign..
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,647

well isn't this interesting
Not...really? I'm sure some random DNC staffer got an e-mail monthly, and ignored it, because they assumed the company the Iowa Democratic Party had hired was competent.
 

Tracygill

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,742
The Left
Damn I remember saying the DNC shoulda been held accountable for this and people were telling me to fuck off because it was 100% the IDP's fault.

Nah Tom Perez resign..
There was reporting at the time that said that DNC people advised the IDP to use the app instead of using phones to report the results.


GM management cutting off health care coverage to their workers is why it's a bad idea to let your boss control your health care insurance.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,428
Sydney
Not...really? I'm sure some random DNC staffer got an e-mail monthly, and ignored it, because they assumed the company the Iowa Democratic Party had hired was competent.
Apparently they had access to it as well, and were supposed to be vetting how secure it was, but subcontracted it to an outside firm.

This is a pretty massive failure on their part, and this leak shows the attempt to throw the IDP alone under the bus is to cover their own asses.
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
wherever
All I want is consistency - if Warren is a snake who wants poor people to die, because her implementation of M4A is different than Bernie, than Bernie's a snake who is OK with poor people dying when he signs a public option in October of 2021
I feel like you spend too much time worrying about random douchebags on Twitter. Neither of them are snakes, they're two great candidates and we'd be lucky to have either of them in the White House.
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,647
User Banned (1 Week): Ignoring Staff Post with Regards to Metacommentary
I feel like you spend too much time worrying about random douchebags on Twitter. Neither of them are snakes, they're two great candidates and we'd be lucky to have either of them in the White House.
I think either would be great (well, as long as somebody has veto power over some of Bernie's choices in staff), but the issue is, if it was just Twitter, it'd be one thing, but the last three months have been Bernie supporters here declaring Warren to be a sellout.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,640
Canada
I think either would be great (well, as long as somebody has veto power over some of Bernie's choices in staff), but the issue is, if it was just Twitter, it'd be one thing, but the last three months have been Bernie supporters here declaring Warren to be a sellout.
I think you overestimate the power of forums posters and twitter users. On the other hand, you have one celebrity news host comparing the supporters of the first Jewish candidate to Nazis, and another claiming that Bernie will execute wealthy whites.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,828
For real this is probably greatest analysis of american liberalism on YouTube. Extremely eye opening to be honest and everyone should watch it.
I watched the video in its entirety. It’s just another YouTuber giving you their take on how the sausage is made without having any inside knowledge/clue.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,428
Sydney
Perez should resign but reading that article, that's where things should start not end.

There's obviously a lot of incompetence, corrupt and lazy people working at the DNC to let this have happened.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,169
BIngo.

AOC's statement is perfectly fine. But, it's another bit of proof, just like his past statements on supporting hererodox Democratic candidates, that Bernie himself and some of Bernie's staff and support base have two different views of the world.
A lot (if not most) of Bernie’s core support is ideologically further left of Bernie in practice. It’s not a grand revelation or a secret for which you need “proof.” Supporting Bernie is a compromise while pulling the overton window left by centering and further legitimizing left ideas among the masses.

For how much Bernie and AOC themselves talk about Democratic Socialism, any leftist can clearly identify that they actually tend to peg more as Social Democrats in practice for understandably practical reasons. It’s openly discussed and not a secrete we hide from anyone.
 

JesseEwiak

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,647
A lot (if not most) of Bernie’s core support is ideologically further left of Bernie in practice. It’s not a grand revelation or a secret for which you need “proof.” Supporting Bernie is a compromise while pulling the overton window left by centering and further legitimizing left ideas among the masses.

For how much Bernie and AOC themselves talk about Democratic Socialism, any leftist can clearly identify that they actually tend to peg more as Social Democrats in practice for understandably practical reasons. It’s openly discussed and not a secrete we hide from anyone.
That's all well and good, but when you're to the left of 99.5% of the American population, attacking people who are to the left of 90% of the American population as neoliberal sellouts who want to kill poor people is not going to lead to great coalition building in the short or long term.

god how many people on here reminded me that the DNC and the iowa dems are separate entities and that im a conspiracy nut for being worried

tom perez resign challenge
Beliieving there was a plan to steal Iowa from Bernie is still a conspiracy.

Nobody has argued the DNC couldn't be incompetent.
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,115

Brock Reiher

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,784
What are the chances of a Bloomberg/Hillary ticket? He's probably only going to go one term if he wins, so Hillary could finally get to run in 2024.
 
Jun 20, 2019
1,118
Perez ought to resign. Misled the public and the party about DNC’s role in the Iowa caucus night fiasco, could not manage the critical role that the DNC themselves demanded they have by reviewing security and tracking the project’s progress. It’s a set of bad decisions made worse by refusing to own up.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,428
Sydney
How was the remit of the DNC not election security after the 2016 election? I mean they themselves got hacked leading to the debilitating Wikileaks dumps.

Is it just political cosplay to them? To talk about Russia and undermining their democracy and using malicious digital tactics?

They just let their organisation contract companies shit out broken apps and then phone it in on the vetting?
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,154
How was the remit of the DNC not election security after the 2016 election? I mean they themselves got hacked leading to the debilitating Wikileaks dumps.

Is it just political cosplay to them? To talk about Russia and undermining their democracy and using malicious digital tactics?

They just let their organisation contract companies shit out broken apps and then phone it in on the vetting?
They hire people who sound like they're good at security because of networking (of the non-online social variety) because leadership is a bunch of old people who don't know computers. Which is the reason the DNC got hacked in the first place, the reason Hillary's campaign got hacked, etc.

The DNC is just really incompetent. They're horrible at messaging, they're horrible at social media interface, they've always been just barely trudging along but the information age has not been kind to them.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,428
Sydney
They hire people who sound like they're good at security because of networking (of the non-online social variety) because leadership is a bunch of old people who don't know computers. Which is the reason the DNC got hacked in the first place, the reason Hillary's campaign got hacked, etc.

The DNC is just really incompetent. They're horrible at messaging, they're horrible at social media interface.
Yeah technically, John Podesta didn't get hacked did he? He got phished.
 

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,387
How was the remit of the DNC not election security after the 2016 election? I mean they themselves got hacked leading to the debilitating Wikileaks dumps.

Is it just political cosplay to them? To talk about Russia and undermining their democracy and using malicious digital tactics?

They just let their organisation contract companies shit out broken apps and then phone it in on the vetting?
Maybe it's not far off from Donald Trump during the first GE debate--bunch of clueless old farts proposing they hire their children who are "so good with these computers, it's unbelievable" to work on The Cyber. Instead of working with qualified people they pick friends and people/organizations they owe a favor to.

So.... where are da Nevada polls?
It's very expensive to conduct polls there.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,043
How was the remit of the DNC not election security after the 2016 election? I mean they themselves got hacked leading to the debilitating Wikileaks dumps.

Is it just political cosplay to them? To talk about Russia and undermining their democracy and using malicious digital tactics?

They just let their organisation contract companies shit out broken apps and then phone it in on the vetting?
Considering the result of the Iowa and upcoming Nevada primaries, it absolutely is political theatre for a lot of the Democratic Party. Something to smack Trump and Republicans over the head.

The whole app thing and internet voting are blue sky helicopter think tank bullshit that only exist in areas that are obsessed with looking efficient and technologically progressive.

It’s fortunate that it’s only Iowa, you can imagine a failure of this magnitude happening in California? It wouldn’t be out of the world to see a political civil war if it happened over there.
 

iksenpets

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,060
Dallas, TX
AOC's too good

this is in regards to the discussion that happened a little earlier

Again, the second you acknowledge what the acceptable compromise would be, you’re no longer starting with what you want. The whole argument about negotiating tactics is that it requires strategic dishonesty about your flexibility or lack thereof. You can’t be like negotiating tactics, negotiating tactics, negotiating tactics, and then also be like “well, just while we’re talking candidly about hard realities, I’d be totally ok with the compromise.” To a reporter. On the record.

Unless, of course, what you’re actually doing is communicating flexibility to moderate voters the second the one person who could change credibly threaten to get to your left is is effectively eliminated.

As for speaking only for yourself, not the campaign, uh huh, sure. Totally. *wink wink*
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,237
Again, the second you acknowledge what the acceptable compromise would be, you’re no longer starting with what you want. The whole argument about negotiating tactics is that it requires strategic dishonesty about your flexibility or lack thereof. You can’t be like negotiating tactics, negotiating tactics, negotiating tactics, and then also be like “well, just while we’re talking candidly about hard realities, I’d be totally ok with the compromise.” To a reporter. On the record.

Unless, of course, what you’re actually doing is communicating flexibility to moderate voters the second the one person who could change credibly threaten to get to your left is is effectively eliminated.

As for speaking only for yourself, not the campaign, uh huh, sure. Totally. *wink wink*
Good thing Bernie didn't say it and he's uncompromising in his rhetoric.
 

Neoweee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,440
Caucus and the nature of work in places like Las Vegas. Tons of people work odd hours so it makes it harder to poll. Diverse population as well.
Iowa, even with this year's fuckups, is one of the "good" caucuses. Turnout is high because it has an institutional reputation and a weird point of pride, and this year had satellite caucuses that really helped expand it.

Nevada... is a shitshow, and was the source of various conspiracy theories / accusations of bias in 2016. The last stretch of polling was pretty damn accurate, but there was about a 15%+ swing relative to the October/December polls.
 

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,131
Jesus fucking christ, I thought it was all from the incumbent degenerate le 45th. Man, money really is your god, ain't it America...
so much so that people will vote for policies that positively benefit the ultra rich and fuck over everyone else (despite being a part of everyone else) because that's how people want to identify themselves
 
Oct 25, 2017
793
Detroit
god how many people on here reminded me that the DNC and the iowa dems are separate entities and that im a conspiracy nut for being worried

tom perez resign challenge
I mean, that was true based on the only information we knew at the time. You guys didn't know any more than anybody else, so I don't understand why you're giving yourself a pat-on-the-back. Still, nothing supports the 'rigging for Pete' claims.

The ProPublica article on the app is even more damning for him given they had direct oversight. Perez is incompetent and I believe he should step-down.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,169
That's all well and good, but when you're to the left of 99.5% of the American population, attacking people who are to the left of 90% of the American population as neoliberal sellouts who want to kill poor people is not going to lead to great coalition building in the short or long term.
Well now that’s moving into a different and rather vague discussion