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Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

  • Joe Biden

    Votes: 585 39.2%
  • Bernie Sanders

    Votes: 853 57.2%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    Votes: 24 1.6%
  • Pete Buttigieg

    Votes: 7 0.5%
  • THE KLOBBERER

    Votes: 16 1.1%
  • Tom Steyer

    Votes: 6 0.4%

  • Total voters
    1,491
  • Poll closed .
Status
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blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
2,957
I don't understand what Warren supporters get out of this election. She's behind Bernie in every state, and Bernie's margins would like be larger in super Tuesday states if she wasn't running.

That is not guaranteed. Bernie is second choice for maybe a 1/3 of Warren voters, with the rest split between the other moderates. And even if Bernie is pulling more voters than say Biden from Warren supporters, there's always a risk that some that might have gone to say Buttigieg could go to Biden if he seems more viable.
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,462
I made that case earlier and I stand by it. Biden and Bloomberg cancelling each other out on Super Tuesday is a good thing for Sanders. You don't want all of that establishment vote coalescing behind Bloomberg. Biden winning big in South Carolina is a good thing. Additionally, Biden displacing Bloomberg and Sanders still persevering by a wide margin would also bode well in the long run for consolidating Democratic support behind a clear front-runner.

South Carolina is kind of this unique duck in that Biden will win it handily but Bloomberg isn't in the equation. There's no way it's not Biden's biggest win of the entire primary. He doesn't have the resources and coordination to leverage that win into momentum elsewhere at the moment - especially with Super Tuesday poised to take the win out of his sails shortly thereafter. (And I don't see anyone outside of Klobuchar and Steyer dropping out next week.)
That's my read as well.

We're all lucky that Biden and Blooms are talking voters from each other.
 

xfactor99

Member
Oct 28, 2017
729
A successful Warren primary challenge in Massachusetts would most likely result in an Establishment Dem who is far likelier to support the status quo, so that is a dumb idea. Don't alienate one of Bernie's closest (the closest?) ideological allies in the Senate if he was to become President.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Bernie is not going to win SC, and all indications show Biden will blow it out with similar margins that Clinton had in 16'

I think some people might be in for a rude awakening at the prospect that Biden could easily have a delegate lead after Florida if Sanders doesn't really sweep ST. People have underestimated Sanders, but people keep writing off Biden and ignoring the structural advantage of his base in key states.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
I'm really curious how something like a ground game could push a candidate up in votes for SC. Particularly for Bernie. If he does an amazing job getting people to knock on doors, how much could it possibly help in votes? Especially since it feels like there's an entrenched Biden voter base in SC. This feels like a great testing ground for Bernie in terms of overcoming the odds for sure.

My guess is, if his ground game is top notch, at best it's going to be a closer second than Biden would want. If Bernie somehow gets a win, I'll be stunned, jaw dropped.
Knocking on doors has proven to be insanely ineffective and overemphasized per volunteer hour. I forget what the actual statistic was but the ratio of doors knocked on to people actually changing their vote or deciding to turn out because of the door knock is absurdly low.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
I'm voting Bernie, but the idea is the idea they're going for is that you vote with your heart in the primary, which was kinda the same rhetoric used in 2016. Of course, there's nowhere for my heart to go in this primary because I don't like anyone running (I'd prefer Warren given the choices), so...
yeah now that I think about it, it is a pretty bad attitude that I expressed here.

it's just if you care about single payer and the wealth tax... like there's another 70+ year old who also has a better shot at winning
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,112
Hillary only won it by 1.5% despite the state having the highest voter turnout in the country.

Trump would have won it had that not been the case
Minnesota always has high turnout, 2016 was not unique in that regard. Hillary, however, was a uniquely disliked candidate here. Bernie trounced her in the caucus.

Culturally, Minnesota is a very progressive state. Generic D will beat Generic R statewide every time.
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,406
California
Knocking on doors has proven to be insanely ineffective and overemphasized per volunteer hour. I forget what the actual statistic was but the ratio of doors knocked on to people actually changing their vote or deciding to turn out because of the door knock is absurdly low.
Yeah, that's what I figured. Has anybody really drilled down what methods are best?
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,175
I will genuinely party when Pete drops out

Pete and Bloomberg have made it a lot easier to swallow a Biden nomination even though I think he loses to Trump
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
Bernie is not going to win SC, and all indications show Biden will blow it out with similar margins that Clinton had in 16'

I think some people might be in for a rude awakening at the prospect that Biden could easily have a delegate lead after Florida if Sanders doesn't really sweep ST. People have underestimated Sanders, but people keep writing off Biden and ignoring the structural advantage of his base in key states.
the idea that Biden actually would be a weak candidate and once the race starts would decline in the polls, was like majority opinion on this site.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,141
I just hope everyone realizes they arn't going to get jack shit done. Obama admin folded under the GOP's bullshit and just withdrew to do nothing, and so would a Biden admin. Enjoy not getting anything done with HC because you don't have a constant message pushing strategy.

But hey! The stategy of "Trump bad!" might just work. Just enjoy everything as is besides the courts, which a Sanders admin would have done well with anyway, but whatever.

Campaign for the protected white suburban women and you are going to legislate for them.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I just hope everyone realizes they arn't going to get jack shit done. Obama admin folded under the GOP's bullshit and just withdrew to do nothing, and so would a Biden admin. Enjoy not getting anything done with HC because you don't have a constant message pushing strategy.
Messaging has nothing to do with getting legislation passed once in office. The reason the ACA wasn't better was not killing the fillibuster.
 

Ottaro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,528
I don't recall seeing any poll that had Bernie leading SC at any point so I never expected it to happen. Even if the margin of Biden's victory is large, I doubt it will be Bernie-dominating-Nevada large.

It's all about what happens Tuesday, and there's simply not enough turn-around time for SC to impact it considering a significant portion of ST has already voted.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
It's really the most idiotic take someone could have looking at the data. It's impossible for these people to conceptualize that a competitive 6 way race versus a competitive 2 way race will immediately naturally mean that people will get a smaller share of the vote.

this, basic math concepts elude people once more
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,141
Messaging has nothing to do with getting legislation passed once in office. The reason the ACA wasn't better was not killing the fillibuster.

Yeah because there is a known "status quo" feeling that all our level reps and senators know about. Campaign and get elected then not really try.

Edit: K my freak out is done. It had been building all week.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
Knocking on doors has proven to be insanely ineffective and overemphasized per volunteer hour. I forget what the actual statistic was but the ratio of doors knocked on to people actually changing their vote or deciding to turn out because of the door knock is absurdly low.
Knocking on doors is ineffective in the micro but effective in the macro if you have the volunteer support to turn things out. It works better on a local level when you can act as a direct ambassador for your candidate and could actually possibly the candidate themselves to follow up.

edit: it also builds a campaign's internals and helps identify supporters who can be turned out for early voting
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Yeah because there is a known "status quo" feeling that all our level reps and senators know about. Campaign and get elected then not really try.

Edit: K my freak out is done. It had been building all week.
I watched the ACA come together in 2009/2010 intently. It was not a matter of "not trying" when Pelosi whipped the Public Option. The problem was that the Senate didn't understand the precariousness of the moment and the need to kill the filibuster.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,819
I just hope everyone realizes they arn't going to get jack shit done. Obama admin folded under the GOP's bullshit and just withdrew to do nothing, and so would a Biden admin. Enjoy not getting anything done with HC because you don't have a constant message pushing strategy.

But hey! The stategy of "Trump bad!" might just work. Just enjoy everything as is besides the courts, which a Sanders admin would have done well with anyway, but whatever.

Campaign for the protected white suburban women and you are going to legislate for them.
Biden has run the laziest campaign since Giuliani in 2008. He has no organization or money in any Super Tuesday state. If he's somehow the nominee, the last thing we need to worry about his potential presidency.
 

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
389
Minnesota always has high turnout, 2016 was not unique in that regard. Hillary, however, was a uniquely disliked candidate here. Bernie trounced her in the caucus.

Culturally, Minnesota is a very progressive state. Generic D will beat Generic R statewide every time.

The 2016 race was definitely a sign that a weak Dem candidate can potentially lose Minnesota. But it would have to be a historically blah candidate.

Walter Mondale only really won vs Reagan there because he was a Minnesota local and thus had the homestate advantage. If he was for anywhere else, Minnesota would have very likely gone Red then too.

Though in the case of this election, the only candidate that could potentially flip Minnesota is Bloomberg as the nom.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,112
The 2016 race was definitely a sign that a weak Dem candidate can potentially lose Minnesota. But it would have to be a historically blah candidate.

Walter Mondale only really won vs Reagan there because he was a Minnesota local and thus had the homestate advantage. If he was for anywhere else, Minnesota would have very likely gone Red then too.

Though in the case of this election, the only candidate that could potentially flip Minnesota is Bloomberg as the nom.
Yeah I agree with all of this.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
I will genuinely party when Pete drops out

Pete and Bloomberg have made it a lot easier to swallow a Biden nomination even though I think he loses to Trump

This has largely been the result for me so far as well. Biden's bad but he's not Buttigieg or Bloomberg bad. At least Biden is sincere, his policies are just old and centrist... because he's an old centrist.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,979
Then the only hope is Arizona flips, because there is 0% change Trump loses otherwise. I don't see Democrats winning Ohio or Florida no matter who wins.

Be shocked if Arizona doesn't flip to blue this time around. It's a true battleground state now and looks to be following CO and NV.

Colorado and Nevada were once the same but now are reliably blue.
It's been trending red for a while now.
Why is that then? Did that much really change with Trump?
Republican public officials weakening labor unions in the state and the anti-trade, anti-globalization sentiments in the state being capitalized on by Republicans. Voter suppression plays a part there too. The gutting of the voting rights act is fucking democrats in a lot of midwest states.
 
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