Democratic Presidential Primary |February OT| It Can't be Worse than Iowa, Right? (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

i like big butts · Feb 13, 2020

I have no idea about the accuracy of Claude Anderson's statements but he makes a pretty convincing point that the systematic destruction of black communities throughout the later half of the 1900s basically broke the identity of black America. A civil rights movement that failed to get black America the reparations that they deserved after the civil war stuck a fork in the split.

It definitely makes a whole lot more sense that certain groups of minorities would have absolutely no problem with stop and frisk because they don't see themselves as the "problem minority" and have accepted the images projected by the majority.

Deleted member 11637 · Feb 13, 2020

mescalineeyes said:
I hope Bloomberg sets a new record in dollars per vote.

Linda McMahon remains the queen of failed vanity campaigns.

Personal Cost for 2 Senate Bids: $100 Million (Published 2012)

Linda E. McMahon, a Republican, has broken a record, long having surpassed Ross Perot in personal spending to seek a federal office.

www.nytimes.com

Deleted member 14459 · Feb 13, 2020

Well the positive thing about Bloomberg is that now accelerationists have a viable Dem candidate to vote for. I can't imagine anyone voting for him outside of that 'ideology'...

nelsonroyale · Feb 13, 2020

JesseEwiak said:
Sure, two white people who many black voters they've never likely heard of, another crazy white guy promising revolution, and Bloomberg, who says nice things about Obama, and has spent a zillion dollars on gun control. Again, I don't agree with their choice, but I can understand where people care coming from.

I understand the importance of symbolism and that is the strength of Obama - a well spoken, educated and professional politician with African heritage. The African American population has been super racialised by the horrific historic treatment they have received in the US. But obviously Sanders policy platform would benefit vulnerable African Americans more than Obama's ever did. I don't immediately expect people to see that though...as a brown person I don't think being victimised immediately leads to insight or enlightenment unfortunately. However, seems like the young generation is coming up extremely impressively.

Doukou · Feb 13, 2020

JesseEwiak said:
I agree there are other options. I'm simply explaining, in theory, why of the options left, even minorities would currently choose Bloomberg.

Now, in two weeks, after getting slaughtered in debates, and Pete & Amy or Warren & Biden being viable again, maybe he'll be back to 5% and we'll all have a good laugh about this.

I guess I agree with you though I find your post that I originally responded to having a different argument then your response.
People are not picking Bloomberg because they are indifferent to racism but because of the money he spent

JesseEwiak · Feb 13, 2020

Doukou said:
I guess I agree with you though I find your post that I originally responded to having a different argument then your response.
People are not picking Bloomberg because they are indifferent to racism but because of the money he spent

Sure - I actually think the redlining thing is far worse for him, because there's at least an argument African-American's and other minorities have made in favor of tough on crime policies for decades. Straight up saying redlining is good is....way worse.

Deleted member 82 · Feb 13, 2020

JesseEwiak said:
If you think simply saying pro-life people have a place in the party are bad, how do you feel about a candidate openly endorsing an anti-abortion candidate for Mayor of a city of 450,000 odd people.

Who are you talking about here? I genuinely have no idea.

[EDIT] Btw, my problem is specifically with already trying to compromise on inherently conservative issues that shouldn't even be debated. Abortion isn't some kind of lucidcrously radical idea. A party that deems itself left-wing or even simply center shouldn't be okay with having members who are anti-abortion. But even if those people exist, you shouldn't trip over yourself to appeal to them.

Deleted member 14459 · Feb 13, 2020

Bloomberg was quite effective in his campaigns for Mayor to make huge donations and siphon donations and contracts to black community pillars, such as pastors, to cement some support in the AA communities. This is well documented. But the AA voting block is not monolithic - some know very well what he stands for and strategically see the suffering he will inflict at historical levels (nothing will change as the best that can be imagined) but a notch down from the vulgar racism of Trump...

JesseEwiak · Feb 13, 2020

Kilrogg said:
Who are you talking about here? I genuinely have no idea.

Bernie Sanders Defends Campaigning For Anti-Abortion Rights Democrat

Sanders endorses Heath Mello for mayor of Omaha, Neb., and tells NPR, "In some conservative states there will be candidates that are popular candidates who may not agree with me on every issue."

www.npr.org

mescalineeyes · Feb 13, 2020

JesseEwiak said:
Bernie Sanders Defends Campaigning For Anti-Abortion Rights Democrat

Sanders endorses Heath Mello for mayor of Omaha, Neb., and tells NPR, "In some conservative states there will be candidates that are popular candidates who may not agree with me on every issue."

www.npr.org

You guys are getting desperate.

GTAce · Feb 13, 2020

Holy smokes.

JesseEwiak · Feb 13, 2020

mescalineeyes said:
You guys are getting desperate.

I have no problem with Bernie's statement in that article.

I just see no reason, on the issue of abortion, to have total trust in Bernie Sanders, who has a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood, believes in publcly funded abortion, opposes parental notification, but thinks there's a place for pro-life Democrat's in the party, but having zero trust in Amy Klouchbar, who has a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood, believes in publcily funded abortion, opposes parental notification, but also thinks there's a place for pro-life Democrat's withi the party.

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

JesseEwiak said:
Bernie Sanders Defends Campaigning For Anti-Abortion Rights Democrat

Sanders endorses Heath Mello for mayor of Omaha, Neb., and tells NPR, "In some conservative states there will be candidates that are popular candidates who may not agree with me on every issue."

www.npr.org

Again, at the behest of the DNC

The Thursday event with Mello, a Nebraska state senator who's running as a Democrat in the mayoral race, is one of several rallies Sanders is holding across the country this week. It's part of a Democratic National Committee-organized unity tour with DNC Chair Tom Perez.

Bernie campaigning for an anti-abortion candidate he was assigned to by the DNC while not running for president does not equal Amy Klobuchar courting anti-abortion voters in a primary where she's running to be the nominee.

Deleted member 82 · Feb 13, 2020

Yeah, Klobuchar is specifically talking about bringing in anti-abortion people to the party.

If her message was more along the lines of "we'll try to change their minds and win them over", that would be much less controversial. Again, see Sanders's interviews on Fox or Joe Rogan. He doesn't go "ya know, people are racists, and we need to build a big tent for them."

MayorSquirtle · Feb 13, 2020

JABEE said:
It's what Pete workshopped after the pharma/healthcare money started rolling in.

Before he was affirmatively for M4A.

He's been saying Medicare for All Who Want It since he was a nobody in the exploratory committee phase.

JesseEwiak · Feb 13, 2020

Kilrogg said:
Yeah, Klobuchar is specifically talking about bringing in anti-abortion people to the party.

If her message was more along the lines of "we'll try to change their minds and win them over", that would be much less controversial. Again, see Sanders's interviews on Fox or Joe Rogan. He doesn't go "ya know, people are racists, and we need to build a big tent for them."

Bernie Sanders said this, while campaigning for an anti-abortion candidate - "The truth is that in some conservative states there will be candidates that are popular candidates who may not agree with me on every issue. I understand it. That's what politics is about," then followed up by saying, I think you just can't exclude people who disagree with us on one issue."

That's not "we'll try to change their minds" answer. That's a, "these people agree with us on most things, so don't go crazy over one issue."

Again, if you have no worries about Bernie Sanders appearing on Joe Rogan and appealing to anti-trans voters, because he won't budge on trans issues, then you should have no issues with a Presidential candidate with a 100% Planned Parenthood ratings, who's for publicly funded abortions, whom opposes parental notification, saying that somebody whose pro-life should be welcomed if they want to vote for a Democrat.

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

JesseEwiak said:
Again, if you have no worries about Bernie Sanders appearing on Joe Rogan and appealing to anti-trans voters, because he won't budge on trans issues, then you should have no issues with a Presidential candidate with a 100% Planned Parenthood ratings, who's for publicly funded abortions, whom opposes parental notification, saying that somebody whose pro-life should be welcomed if they want to vote for a Democrat.

Those two things also aren't equal.

Bernie went onto a popular talk show hosted by an ignorant moron and laid out his policy plans without saying anything wishy washy about Trans Rights vs. Klobuchar is directly appealing to anti-abortion voters without being asked.

These aren't the same, one is passive and the other is assertive.

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
Those two things also aren't equal.

Bernie went onto a popular talk show hosted by an ignorant moron and laid out his policy plans without saying anything wishy washy about Trans Rights vs. Klobuchar is directly appealing to anti-abortion voters without being asked.

These aren't the same, one is passive and the other is assertive.

Like, if you wanna play this:

"I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American," Sanders told The Daily Beast in a Thursday interview.

Sanders endorsed and campaigned with both Tallahassee mayor Andrew Gillum — who conceded to Rep. Ron DeSantis in the Florida gubernatorial race — and Stacey Abrams, the Georgia Democrat who may engage in a runoff election with Republican Brian Kemp in that state's governor's race. And the senator argued that their tight races are a testament to the appeal of boldly progressive policies like Medicare for All and raising the minimum wage.

Bernie Sanders claims white voters in Florida and Georgia were 'uncomfortable' voting for black candidates

Sen. Bernie Sanders said that Andrew Gillum and Stacey Abrams came up short on Tuesday because of white voters "uncomfortable" with black candidates.

www.businessinsider.com

Seems quite a bit more assertive than Klob's remark to me.

Like, I get being upset at Klob's remarks, so am I, but it doesn't really seem like an even treatment here.

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
Like, if you wanna play this:

Bernie Sanders claims white voters in Florida and Georgia were 'uncomfortable' voting for black candidates

Sen. Bernie Sanders said that Andrew Gillum and Stacey Abrams came up short on Tuesday because of white voters "uncomfortable" with black candidates.

www.businessinsider.com

Seems quite a bit more assertive than Klob's remark to me.

Like, I get being upset at Klob's remarks, so am I, but it doesn't really seem like an even treatment here.

I'm not seeing the connection here to policy. How is this relevant?

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
I'm not seeing the connection here to policy. How is this relevant?

Where was Klob's connection to policy? She says that registered dems that are pro-life can be registered dems. Bernie is saying that people who are uncomfortable with voting for a black man aren't necessarily racist, presumably to reach out to them. Which is worse?

Let's be clear about Klobs context:

"Do you think there's room for pro-life Democrats to vote for you?"

Sen. Amy Klobuchar: "I"m strongly pro-choice. I have always been pro-choice, but I believe we're a big tent party … I think we need to bring people in …"

She was asked whether pro-life registered dems should vote for her.

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
Where was Klob's connection to policy? She says that registered dems that are pro-life can be registered dems.

She's reaching out to anti-abortion voters for their support. Their support centers around states rights for abortion.

How does this quote

"I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American," Sanders told The Daily Beast, referencing the close contests involving Andrew Gillum in Florida and Stacey Abrams in Georgia and ads run against the two. "I think next time around, by the way, it will be a lot easier for them to do that."

equate to possible policy change?

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
She's reaching out to anti-abortion voters for their support. Their support centers around states rights for abortion.

How does this quote

equate to possible policy change?

How does the quote:

"Do you think there's room for pro-life Democrats to vote for you?"

Sen. Amy Klobuchar: "I"m strongly pro-choice. I have always been pro-choice, but I believe we're a big tent party … I think we need to bring people in …"

Equate to policy change? Like, how do you think a Bernie Sanders answers that question, do you suppose? Like, I remember people in that Rogan thread making precisely that argument of acceptance for appealing to nonvoters and Obama-Trump types.

Deleted member 1476 · Feb 13, 2020

Channel5News said:
Linda McMahon remains the queen of failed vanity campaigns.

Personal Cost for 2 Senate Bids: $100 Million (Published 2012)

Linda E. McMahon, a Republican, has broken a record, long having surpassed Ross Perot in personal spending to seek a federal office.

www.nytimes.com

It's in the blood of that family to throw away money, apparently. XFL, this.

Dude Abides · Feb 13, 2020

No candidate is going to say they don't want X type of person to vote for them, unless it's like Klansmen or pedophiles. Klobuchar is awful enough, both personally and politically, without making mountains out of molehills.

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
Like, how do you think a Bernie Sanders answers that question, do you suppose?

Abortion is a human right. That's how he would supposedly answer it. He certainly wouldn't have gone on about how this is a big tent party that should cater to anti-abortion voters. And yeah, she's implying catering to them because that's what a "Big Tent" party means. Whether she'd actually do it? I don't know. I personally don't trust her, I sure hope she's just manipulating them.

Deleted member 5596 · Feb 13, 2020

mAcOdIn said:
Lol. It's not that easy. In most cases where a union has such a great plan that they think it's their crown jewel then they likely got that plan by giving up on increased wages. So under a M4A plan some unions with awesome plans will be taking home less money than their non-union brethren in the same industry.

There is no way around this outside those unions renegotiating their contracts. We can't let a handful of unions to hold back the whole country nor can we create a situation where powerful unions are ground to dust overnight because we're going to have them keep their plan, that was bought with their wages essentially and taxing them for M4A and making them the poorest employees in their fields.

My point is that you can't choose to not to pay up the taxes of a public healthcare system because you already have a 'better' one. That's not how it works, the taxation is not for the services you would recieve if you get sick or need medical care, is for everyone regardless of their financial status, for the whole infrastructure that allows that to happen.

Unions want to keep their awesome plans? Ok, but that won't exclude them of paying. They can renegotiate their contracts or simply aks that the money of their awesome plans to go for M4A taxes. But 'Medicare For All Who Want it" it's an oxymoron, that's not how it works and sounds more like "we don't want rich people to pay taxes for the healt care of people that can't afford it" which is the fucking damn point of a public health system.

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
Abortion is a human right. That's how he would supposedly answer it. He certainly wouldn't have gone on about how this is a big tent party that should cater to anti-abortion voters. And yeah, she's implying catering to them because that's what a "Big Tent" party means. Whether she'd actually do it? I don't know. I personally don't trust her, I sure hope she's just manipulating them.

Bernie circa 2017 on Morning Joe:

Scarborough: "Can the democratic party be more open to candidates who are not rigidly pro-choice, who are not rigidly pro-gun control?"

Sanders: "The answer, I think, is yes."

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
Bernie circa 2017 on Morning Joe:

Hah, well played. I haven't seen that quote before. But I would like to point out that in 2017 he wasn't running for president. He was running the platform on behalf of the Democrats for the 2018 mid-terms. If you ask him now, I'm positive you'd get a different answer as it would be directly in line with his campaign.

Poodlestrike · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
Hah, well played. I haven't seen that quote before. But I would like to point out that in 2017 he wasn't running for president. He was running the platform on behalf of the Democrats for the 2018 mid-terms. If you ask him now, I'm positive you'd get a different answer as it would be directly in line with his campaign.

This is... quite the admission, tbh. Bernie's appeal is hugely founded on a sense of total reliability - he thinks what he thinks and he doesn't say things just to say 'em. You really think he'd change his tack on this now?

danm999 · Feb 13, 2020

JaredG said:
He's been saying Medicare for All Who Want It since he was a nobody in the exploratory committee phase.

Pete actually fucked ruled twelve months ago

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
Hah, well played. I haven't seen that quote before. But I would like to point out that in 2017 he wasn't running for president. He was running the platform on behalf of the Democrats for the 2018 mid-terms. If you ask him now, I'm positive you'd get a different answer as it would be directly in line with his campaign.

Around 10:30 is the quoted answer, the back and forth starts at 8:20. Joe more specifically asks about whether Bernie would be open to expanding the tent (like Klob) of the democratic party to allow pro-life dems and also recruit candidates that are pro-life (more than Klob).

In fairness he has given a different answer recently that's more along the lines of saying you have to be pro-choice to be a dem, but I also feel like that and gun control are the issues he'll bend the most on (at least in rhetoric) in the general.
Here's that recent during campaign answer:

This was in response to MSNBC's Stephanie Ruhle asking Sanders, "Is there such a thing as a pro-life Democrat in your vision of the party?"

"By this time in history," he added, "I think when we talk about what a Democrat is, I think being pro-choice is an essential part of that."

Buttigieg gave a good answer, to be fair:

"I respect where you're coming from, and I hope to earn your vote, but I'm not going to try to earn your vote by tricking you. I am pro-choice," Buttigieg said.

"I know that the difference of opinion that you and I have is one that we have come by honestly and the best that I can offer, and it may win your vote and if not, I understand — if we can't agree on where to draw the line, the next best thing we can do is agree on who should draw the line, and in my view, it's the woman who's faced with that decision," he said.

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

Poodlestrike said:
This is... quite the admission, tbh. Bernie's appeal is hugely founded on a sense of total reliability - he thinks what he thinks and he doesn't say things just to say 'em. You really think he'd change his tack on this now?

Well yeah sure. He wasn't personally running for himself. He's not representing his own campaign or the movement as a whole. In 2017 he was working on behalf of the Dems to turn the house so naturally he's representing the Dems platform.

danm999 · Feb 13, 2020

It's fine to appeal to pro life voters so long as you don't give them concessions honestly.

ShotyMcFat · Feb 13, 2020

Not sure if this has been posted but With the lack of polls coming from Nevada figured this would be an interesting thing that shows what's happening over there.

Chuck Rocha is a senior Bernie advisor FYI

Poodlestrike · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
Well yeah sure. He wasn't personally running for himself. He's not representing his own campaign or the movement as a whole. In 2017 he was working on behalf of the Dems to turn the house so naturally he's representing the Dems platform.

I guess that makes some kind of sense. Feels hard to square with the image of Bernie in my head, but I've talked before about how it's not really that accurate so I guess that tracks.

nelsonroyale · Feb 13, 2020

danm999 said:
It's fine to appeal to pro life voters so long as you don't give them concessions honestly.

...Yeah I mean people voting republican are constantly voting against their interests. Why can't democrats completely alienate people who would effectively be voting against their (crappy) interest on a particular topic? I mean there are obviously certain positions that shouldn't be tolerated and candidates should be very vocal in being against pro life, but being a politician that is pro choice and advocating policies as such, and a supporter of theirs who is pro choice, but aligned on other issues...is not that problematic. Of course there are lines, but turning away voters isn't a smart move...again, particularly if your position is clear.

BADMAN · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
Around 10:30 is the quoted answer, the back and forth starts at 8:20. Joe more specifically asks about whether Bernie would be open to expanding the tent (like Klob) of the democratic party to allow pro-life dems and also recruit candidates that are pro-life (more than Klob).

In fairness he has given a different answer recently that's more along the lines of saying you have to be pro-choice to be a dem, but I also feel like that and gun control are the issues he'll bend the most on (at least in rhetoric) in the general.
Here's that recent during campaign answer:

Buttigieg gave a good answer, to be fair:

Damn, quote you pulled from the video really deserved the extra context from the whole conversation. That was way more of a "soft yes" or a "yes, but" than the quote implied.

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

BADMAN said:
Damn, quote you pulled from the video really deserved the extra context from the whole conversation. That was way more of a "soft yes" or a "yes, but" than the quote implied.

I found the quote first, video second. All the same, the thing he said yes to was worse than the quote implied, he just walked around it for a couple minutes.

Boss · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
I found the quote first, video second. All the same, the thing he said yes to was worse than the quote implied, he just walked around it for a couple minutes.

He didn't walk around it, he actually made the point that he is pro-choice and does well in conservative areas in his state and that being pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-environment isn't a barrier to doing well in conservative areas. He literally said "Democrats shouldn't go into these states and be Republican-lite". His message was what his message always is, take on big money interests, not appeal to conservative areas by being republican-lite on social issues.

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

Boss said:
He didn't walk around it, he actually made the point that he is pro-choice and does well in conservative areas in his state and that being pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-environment isn't a barrier to doing well in conservative areas. He literally said "Democrats shouldn't go into these states and be Republican-lite". His message was what his message always is, take on big money interests, not appeal to conservative areas by being republican-lite on social issues.

Bernie was asked if the tent should include pro-life dems, including candidates he said yes but his spiel, take on wall-street and healthcare and the social issues are side dish. Amy was asked if pro-life dems should vote for her, she stated she was strongly pro-choice but the tent should include them.

Boss · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
Bernie was asked if the tent should include pro-life dems, including candidates he said yes but his spiel. Amy was asked if pro-life dems should vote for her, she stated she was strongly pro-choice but the tent should include them.

At the same time, he said that the people the Democrats should be recruiting are decent people, those who are working long hours, can't afford sending their kids to college or afford healthcare, being paid less, and rally around those issues. He did not say we should be welcoming people in West Virginia who are not pro-choice. He said word for word "I do quite well [in conservative areas in his state] despite the fact I'm pro choice, I'm pro gay-rights, I'm very strongly pro-environment." and later said "Democrats have to go into these states and not be Republican-lite."

His broader points completely dismisses the small "I think yes" comment, because he literally says "but the point is...." right after.

Edit: What are you talking about side-dish? The point he's making is that he does well in conservative areas despite being strongly to the left on social issues. That is his entire point, the tiny comment in between the main blocks of his point is the actual side dish you're focusing on.

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

Boss said:
At the same time, he said that the people the Democrats should be recruiting are decent people, those who are working long hours, can't afford sending their kids to college or afford healthcare, being paid less, and rally around those issues. He did not say we should be welcoming people in West Virginia who are not pro-choice. He said word for word "I do quite well [in conservative areas in his state] despite the fact I'm pro choice, I'm pro gay-rights, I'm very strongly pro-environment." and later said "Democrats have to go into these states and not be Republican-lite."

His broader points completely dismisses the small "I think yes" comment, because he literally says "but the point is...." right after.

He was saying that he earned the votes of democrats that were pro-life despite his stance and he answered the third ask of the question with, yes there should be room for pro-life pro-gun candidates so long as they rally against wall street and aren't economically republican-lite.

Which is worse than what Klob said, which is that yes she is strongly pro-choice but she wants pro-life dem votes and think the party should include the people she wants votes from.

Boss said:
Edit: What are you talking about side-dish? The point he's making is that he does well in conservative areas despite being strongly to the left on social issues. That is his entire point, the tiny comment in between the main blocks of his point is the actual side dish you're focusing on.

That is not his entire answer to the question. And if that's enough to dismiss anything, why are you concerned about Klob's comment?

Boss · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
He was saying that he earned the votes of democrats that were pro-life despite his stance and he answered the third ask of the question with, yes there should be room for pro-life pro-gun candidates so long as they rally against wall street and aren't economically republican-lite.

Which is worse than what Klob said, which is that yes she is strongly pro-choice but she wants pro-life dem votes and think the party should include the people she wants votes from.

I don't agree with your analysis of the video, I think the entire point of the video is him saying Democrats do not need to bend on social issues to attract voters. The Republican-lite is in reference to both social and economic issues.

xenocide · Feb 13, 2020

Poodlestrike said:
This is... quite the admission, tbh. Bernie's appeal is hugely founded on a sense of total reliability - he thinks what he thinks and he doesn't say things just to say 'em. You really think he'd change his tack on this now?

Whenever he says something contradictory or too political it's just dismissed. See: Being against Civil Unions in VT, his support for the 94 Crime Bill, most of his statements on Gun Control.

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

Boss said:
I don't agree with your analysis of the video, I think the entire point of the video is him saying Democrats do not need to bend on social issues to attract voters.

This is the exact final exchange of the question at 10:50+:
Joe: I'm not asking for any litmus test but can the democratic party be more open to candidates that may not be rigidly pro-choice, may not be, may not be rigidly pro-gun control

Sanders: The answer is, Joe, the answer is I think is yes, but the point is [insert economic issues here and then frame republican-lite on economic issues]

Republican-lite in that context is not inclusive of abortion and gun rights as that's not what he mentions during that final answer.

Boss · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
This is the exact final exchange of the question at 10:50+:
Joe: I'm not asking for any litmus test but can the democratic party be more open to candidates that may not be rigidly pro-choice, may not be, may not be rigidly pro-gun control

Sanders: The answer is, Joe, the answer is I think is yes, but the point is [insert economic issues here and then frame republican-lite on economic issues]

Republican-lite in that context is not inclusive of abortion and gun rights.

"I do quite well in conservative areas in my state despite being pro choice, pro gay rights..."
"There are decent people who work longer hours for low wages, can't afford healthcare.. these are the issues the Democratic party has to stand up for."
"Democrats have to go into these states and not be Republican lite and take on big money interests, if they do that, other things will fall into place."

There is context to the video outside of one sentence.

Edit:

Why are you ignoring how the conversation started? I really don't get this. He answered the same question exactly the way I'm framing it in the beginning of the conversation.

Joe: "Shouldn't Democrats be more accepting of that? [matching social issues with the community they're running in] on the national level?"
Bernie: "Joe, let me answer it in this way. In my state, up in the north-east section of the state, it's pretty conserative and I do quite well despite being pro choice, pro gay rights..."

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

Boss said:
"I do quite well in conservative areas in my state despite being pro choice, pro gay rights..."
"There are decent people who work longer hours for low wages, can't afford healthcare.. these are the issues the Democratic party has to stand up for."
"Democrats have to go into these states and not be Republican lite and take on big money interests, if they do that, other things will fall into place."

There is context to the video outside of one sentence.

The first quote was from the first time he was asked in which he didn't answer the question, and, again, Klob literally said "I'm very pro-choice" as the qualifier for what she said. The second quote reinforces my point. The third quote also reinforces my point. He literally said YES immediately after being asked the third time. There is no disconnect between the question and the yes. Like, why do you think he talks about healthcare and low wages? Because he thinks those issues are higher on a hierarchy than a candidate being pro control and pro choice.

Kyra · Feb 13, 2020

Bernie has to do what he has to do and say what he has to say to win... This isnt agame Trump's threat is existential. Do what you have to do to win.

Steel · Feb 13, 2020

Kyra said:
Bernie has to do what he has to do and say what he has to say to win... This isnt agame Trump's threat is existential. Do what you have to do to win.

I'm more bringing it up in the context of Klob getting flak for doing... less than that.

Boss · Feb 13, 2020

Steel said:
The first quote was from the first time he was asked in which he didn't answer the question. The second quote reinforces my point. The third quote also reinforces my point. He literally said YES immediately after being asked the third time. There is no disconnect between the question and the yes. Like, why do you think he talks about healthcare and low wages? Because he thinks those issues are higher on a hierarchy than a candidate being pro control and pro choice.

Joe: "Shouldn't Democrats be more accepting of that? [matching social issues with the community they're running in] on the national level?"
Bernie: "Joe, let me answer it in this way. In my state, up in the north-east section of the state, it's pretty conservative and I do quite well despite being pro choice, pro gay rights..."

This is how the conservation started.

Democratic Presidential Primary |February OT| It Can't be Worse than Iowa, Right? (Discussion Guidelines in OP)

Who's Going to Win South Carolina?

Joe Biden

Bernie Sanders

Elizabeth Warren

Pete Buttigieg

THE KLOBBERER

Tom Steyer

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Smooth vs. Crunchy

Smooth vs. Crunchy

The Eggplant Queen