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Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,626
Which is why I feel Jim is exploiting the issue. Beating a dead horse over and over and over. Grabbing his stick and beating the living shit out of dat horse..... for dem clicks and merch sales. He repeated the same thing he's said in so many videos. Is he wrong? I don't know. MTX don't bother me personally but what does bother me is being called a corporate shill for understanding why a companys making games REQUIRING crazily bloated budgets to seek further revenue streams. Anyone who owns a business understands this. I also get annoyed at people then trying to compare other games offering post game support and having no MTX as it is apples and oranges. Which of those games have budgets like RDR3, ACO, or Anthem? Hmmm....

Yup. He's not actually saying to do anything...there is no escalation of action. But I was told here that consumer activism doesn't work...so telling his fanbase to avoid ALL games made by a publisher that uses these tactics...or even abstaining from playing and buying these games himself...it's too much to ask I guess. Because if he doesn't buy or cover any of those games (besides saying "never buy these because MTX"), he can't get hits off of complaining about them...

What is the endgame here?
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
If companies are going to stop chasing graphics then the internet needs to stop outraging about stupid shit like "downgraded" puddles.

People here want their cake and want to eat it too. They want HD world environments, detailed character models, cutting edge physics, expansive voice acting, but oh yeah also all for only $60 but don't try to monetize your game anymore than that!

And then get confused when studios like Respawn makes great games with little monetization that not enough people buy (and FWIW I did buy TF2) so they get bought out by the bigger publishers. I'm not here to defend shareholders or executives but it's crazy to see such a strong public sentiment on this forum and others that games can be made on shoe string budgets or if they're made the right way then they'll always be profitable.
Especially since that attitude is always "just slash the budget" and by doing that congratulations, you've put several hundred people out of work with minimal severance and no benefits after a month.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,020
I'm guessing this guy is gonna enjoy RDR2's MTX while bashing every other game. A bit hypocritical, just like most youtubers out there. Take-Two/R* have one of the most toxic MTX models implemented in GTAV/GTA online.

This video isn't a critique on a specific game but a take on the industry as a whole's labor practices.
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
I missed a word, inner companies "workings"

Although I think the context is still apparent there
Well, no. Most of these game publishers are publically traded companies and so are required by law to publish accurate information about revenues, expenses, and profits. Publishing false, inaccurate, or incomplete financial records is better known as "securities fraud" and can carry severe financial and criminal penalties. If you have adequate evidence to assert that companies like EA and Ubisoft are literally defrauding the public then I suppose you should post it.
 

benzopil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,150
The Shadow of War was a fun example. We were told by the publisher and defenders when the game was released how the game was balanced without MTX especially in the end game. They get criticized, eventually removed the MTX, make a PR statement about it to the press and.... wait for it.... they had to re-balance the end game. That just happened this year.

But nah... don't worry, MTX is never factored into game design. Never not once. They mean it this time.
They rebalanced it because it was boring garbage even with MTs which didn't really help at all. I tried to platinum it but it was a terrible experience.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Gamers want big games with big budgets. And they will moan when they don't get it (and sometimes will moan if they do!)
what do people seriously expect to happen if there was less of these big games? people just quitting playing video games? the reason it seems like these big games are the only thing that sells is because they're basically the only ones that are getting huge budgets and are being featured heavily by these publishers.
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
736
Do you have a source to back up this point? Eg that there are fewer console games being released and considerably fewer $60 games?

Whilst not console, according to data, more games released on Steam in a single year in 2017 than games released in total, in 10 whole years between 2005 and 2015. If there are fewer console games specifically, it might have less to do with rising costs, and more to do with lucrative prospects found elsewhere on other platforms, eg mobile and steam.

The major publishers are posting record profits.
http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/167200111597/a-youtuber-named-tarmack-recently-made-a-video
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
I agree on all points. What it essentially boils down to is that there really is no need to have microtransactions on a $60 game. We would've all accepted a $10 mark-up on all AAA games going forward to cover for the "crippling" costs of making modern videogames. We would've bitched and moaned about it, but in the end accepted it. The big publishers just found a better way to increase prices and then some.
$10 markup, lol!

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

How much are you *really* willing to spend?
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I'm guessing this guy is gonna enjoy RDR2's MTX while bashing every other game. A bit hypocritical, just like most youtubers out there. Take-Two/R* have one of the most toxic MTX models implemented in GTAV/GTA online.



5 Jun 2017.

Don't worry, if RDR 2 MP, or even SP, is stuffed with MTs, Jim will be there.
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
Yeah, the same developers who can be riddled with tax evasion too



If you think games cannot make money, and lots of it, without some of this stuff infecting ALL games, then there is something really wrong with your perception of the industry. There still exists a decent amount of games that don't try to sell you F2P boosters and MTs in their paid content.

Well, no shit sherlock.
But then the thread should be "greedy developers don't pay taxes and that damages the entire fabric of society". And that is a much more important and serious issue than MTX and lootboxes.
However, this thread is about MTX and lootboxes. And also somewhat paying employees more money, like these two things worked together.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,742
All of these discussions feel like beating a dead horse over and over and over. It's a new week. It's time to go out, grab that stick and beat the living shit out of dat horse. Look, I hate to be that guy, but I think it's pretty obvious at that point that microtransactions are here to stay, period. People who are offended by AAA games with MT most likely don't buy them already. The rest cave in as usual. At this point it feels like a mob mentality were the same persons get offended by the same shit over and over. The rest get it, I'm pretty sure. They just don't care as much as you do guys and the AAA developpers know this too. If you think Battlefront II is the living proof that solidary can really make a difference then brace yourself for the future. Perhaps it was a flop for EA, but the rest of devs simply got a free market study out of it. That helped them knowing how far they could go now. If BFII came out 10 years from now, I bet it would have done great. They got too greedy quickly. These things, they take time.

Sure, it might be morally wrong to you to pay $60 for a game only to have half of it gated behind a season pass or having your progression gimped by a leveling microtransaction. It definitely annoys me. But that's where we are. I mean, I've been voting with my wallet for years and basically nothing changed. Clearly then, many still purchase those games anyway and couldn't care less. Maybe they are not playing as much games as we are on this forum. "What's the big deal to pay $10 to enhance my leveling speed on that game I bought for $60? It's just 10 bucks! I only buy 2 to 3 games a years. Who cares? It's the price of a meal at McDo!"

Just be realistic. Gaming has been shifting towards GaaS for years now. MT is huge a part of it. It's where the money is. It's now their financial model. The few of us who don't like that shit need to stick to indies, retro gaming or leave the hobby while the new "gamers" take over. Us old lads will yell at clouds while the new generation who didn't know any better will gladly embrace what they've got.

So what do you think happened when EA pulled back the microtransactions on BF2? And the lootbox investigations in some countries? Was it because people followed advice like yours?
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892

Customers.

This idea of a kind of apex predator uber-consumer of luxury entertainment products with incredibly discerning and particular tastes, quick to "wait for a sale," who benefits and is excited by the prospect of companies producing a variety of different but competing goods for them to consume, with each company trying it's best to create the best, most compelling product in order to "win" the dollars of the Gamer.

A lot of nonsense to neatly fit customers into the easily dismissed 'gamers'.

At the same time, Gamers hate what they perceive to be corporate greed and violations of their consumer rights,

And good on them. But again, customers. And things don't cease to exist just because you don't believe in them.

Gamers think they should be able to pick-and-choose only the parts of capitalism in which they benefit, and discard all the drawbacks.

Customers. And i don't see why not. That's exactly what corporations do.

But ultimately despite all their consumer outrage at nebulous concepts such as corporate greed

Greed is not a nebulous concept. It's the driving force of capitalism.

Gamers will continue to shell out money because the identity of the Gamer itself doesn't really matter except for one crucial aspect: the buying of games.

More disingenuous 'gamer' bullshit meant to dismiss customer concerns.

This situation isn't the result of a grand conspiracy or a master plan from evil heads of the corporations that Jim Sterling loves to pillory.

No one but corporate defenders ever speak about conspiracies. Funny how that goes. Recognizing how corporations function and criticizing them for it does not necessitate a conspiracy.

Things simply settle into being this way because this is the kind of system that works, in that it makes money for the right people (which includes Sterling), and because it reinforces itself.

It works. For those at the top of the corporations making the millions. Not so much for the exploited workers who are treated like cattle, or for the customers who are increasingly a mere product sold to shareholders.


Once again, so many words and so little meaning beyond the usual fingerwagging at customers making their voices heard. You should've included a gamersriseup somewhere in there. It's all the rage with the kids these days.
 

Interficium

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,569
Well, no shit sherlock.
But then the thread should be "greedy developers don't pay taxes and that damages the entire fabric of society". And that is a much more important and serious issue than MTX and lootboxes.
However, this thread is about MTX and lootboxes. And also somewhat paying employees more money, like these two things worked together.

My favorite thing is that video makes it seem like tax evasion is some nefarious scheme that big evil game publishers have cooked up to fleece people when in reality it's standard operating procedure at every major American company.

Another example of Gamers being upset at the games industry when really they're upset at (the bad parts that they don't like of) capitalism.
 

Ghostwalker

Member
Oct 30, 2017
582
Irrelevant to the example given, but I'm going to say gross because it's GROSS, GREEDY $1,000,000,000 PROFIT.
But in all seriousness, publishers like Voodoo.io and Ketchapp run that model and are extremely successful.

The point I'm trying to make here is that just because a company has huge numbers doesn't speak to its portfolio and how it's getting them. One of the big reasons publishers are getting record numbers is because of mobile acquisitions, not just MTX in AAA.

Wrong, always Net never Gross.

Here is my point
The old classic tax avoiding trick is to make that take that Gross of $1,000,000,000 and thought a bit of creative accounting turning it into $1,000 net and pay next to no tax on it. Then the rest of the profit appears in some tax haven were they pay no tax on it.

What amuses me is they are doing this and then using this to justify why games have to have MTX.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Go to Ubisoft, EA's and Activisions Wikipedia pages and look at their list of games released and compare years. You can do it for almost any studio I bet

But what is that supposed to prove exactly? All that tells us is that those studios are putting fewer eggs in fewer baskets. There are so many more publishers, studios, indie and other game releases these days that it simply wouldn't make sense to release so many games each year.

They seem to be far more content with annual or bi-annual lower effort releases, with microtransactions up the ass, not because of rising costs or because they're making less profit (they're making far more), instead they're doing it because it makes them more money for less.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361

DID YOU SAY CUSTOMERS? Consumer bro.

"The consumer knows".

2NOS7O4.png


The industry is under-monetizing. Okay.

Translation of above is as I said earlier, the push-a-little formula.
 

Goronmon

Member
Nov 9, 2017
639
The old classic tax avoiding trick is to make that take that Gross of $1,000,000,000 and thought a bit of creative accounting turning it into $1,000 net and pay next to no tax on it.
The old classic tax avoiding trick is paying your employees and buying offices. This tricks the government into thinking you made less profit.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
On the one hand I think he's always been a bit hyperbolic about microtransactions being exploitative. Some are, such as with that one basketball game where to even stand a chance online you need to splurge, or basically every implementation of lootboxes. But stuff like Assassn's Creed isn't exploitative- it just makes the game design worse in the name of more money. That's not really morally wrong, just shitty. Plus, it's money that, frankly, without publishers being more transparent, really does seem to go straight to their coffers rather than their workers. Like if they can prove the microtransactions go to their workers and contractors and bonuses for them, great.

On the other? I think Jim should stop beating around the bushes and just say he's a socialist already, it's pretty damn evident he is. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's evident if you listen to his stuff, podcasts in particular (btw his podcasts are LOADS better than the vast majority of his videos these days), for long enough, that he really does care about the little guy. Shame that people seem to think he doesn't and that he's just some entitled gamer or something. Like, yes, he's finding umbrage with basic capitalism. But you know-- A lot of us are. Sure he'll lose some of his fans who are pro-capitalist, but I have a feeling he'll make the lost number back.

Also lol at the anti-union sentiment in this thread.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Wrong, always Net never Gross.

Here is my point
The old classic tax avoiding trick is to make that take that Gross of $1,000,000,000 and thought a bit of creative accounting turning it into $1,000 net and pay next to no tax on it. Then the rest of the profit appears in some tax haven were they pay no tax on it.

What amuses me is they are doing this and then using this to justify why games have to have MTX.
I think you got the completely wrong takeaway from my post
 

Interficium

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,569

Truely a Herculean effort you've made here to go point-by-point through my post without actually refuting anything except some insipid hair-splitting "we're CUSTOMERS not gamers" drivel, as if that changes anything, along with galaxy-brain revelations such as "capitalism is greed." Absolutely brilliant work topped off by the gamers rise up self-own.

Come back to me when you realize there's no ethical consumption under the capitalistic system under which you directly benefit from every day.
 

Pal

Tried to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
634
Which is why I feel Jim is exploiting the issue. Beating a dead horse over and over and over. Grabbing his stick and beating the living shit out of dat horse..... for dem clicks and merch sales. He repeated the same thing he's said in so many videos. Is he wrong? I don't know. MTX don't bother me personally but what does bother me is being called a corporate shill for understanding why a companys making games REQUIRING crazily bloated budgets to seek further revenue streams. Anyone who owns a business understands this. I also get annoyed at people then trying to compare other games offering post game support and having no MTX as it is apples and oranges. Which of those games have budgets like RDR3, ACO, or Anthem? Hmmm....


Of course he is. Since his youtube channel and his Patreon appear to be his main source of income, he has to produce content that appeal to his public. Since he has made a name for himself by complaining about everything related to gaming, perhaps he feels like he has to keep doing it in order to retain his public. Personally I can't really stand him anymore since that schtick isn't doing it for me. If he could move back to game reviews like he did back then with Destructoid, I know I would prefer it.

So what do you think happened when EA pulled back the microtransactions on BF2? And the lootbox investigations in some countries? Was it because people followed advice like yours?

BFII was too far, too soon. There was an online uproar against it and EA paid the price. Do you see similar uproars with moderate MTX like we do have today? Except for the usual offended ones, life goes on for the vast majority of gamers. Most don't like it but can live with it. Give it some time and hearing about an AAA game without MTX will feel like your grandad is telling you of an old tale from his past.

Do you think Odyssey is doing badly right now?

And the lootbox? Some countries? Last time I checked, only Belgium prohibited them. The rest of the world didn't care apparently....I'm just stating the fact. I don't like this any more than you do.
 
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Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Customers.



A lot of nonsense to neatly fit customers into the easily dismissed 'gamers'.



And good on them. But again, customers. And things don't cease to exist just because you don't believe in them.



Customers. And i don't see why not. That's exactly what corporations do.



Greed is not a nebulous concept. It's the driving force of capitalism.



More disingenuous 'gamer' bullshit meant to dismiss customer concerns.



No one but corporate defenders ever speak about conspiracies. Funny how that goes. Recognizing how corporations function and criticizing them for it does not necessitate a conspiracy.



It works. For those at the top of the corporations making the millions. Not so much for the exploited workers who are treated like cattle, or for the customers who are increasingly a mere product sold to shareholders.


Once again, so many words and so little meaning beyond the usual fingerwagging at customers making their voices heard. You should've included a gamersriseup somewhere in there. It's all the rage with the kids these days.
Do you think it's only corporations and 1%ers who have MTX?
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
On the one hand I think he's always been a bit hyperbolic about microtransactions being exploitative. Some are, such as with that one basketball game where to even stand a chance online you need to splurge, or basically every implementation of lootboxes. But stuff like Assassn's Creed isn't exploitative- it just makes the game design worse in the name of more money. That's not really morally wrong, just shitty. Plus, it's money that, frankly, without publishers being more transparent, really does seem to go straight to their coffers rather than their workers. Like if they can prove the microtransactions go to their workers and contractors and bonuses for them, great.

On the other? I think Jim should stop beating around the bushes and just say he's a socialist already, it's pretty damn evident he is. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's evident if you listen to his stuff, podcasts in particular (btw his podcasts are LOADS better than the vast majority of his videos these days), for long enough, that he really does care about the little guy. Shame that people seem to think he doesn't and that he's just some entitled gamer or something. Like, yes, he's finding umbrage with basic capitalism. But you know-- A lot of us are. Sure he'll lose some of his fans who are pro-capitalist, but I have a feeling he'll make the lost number back.

Also lol at the anti-union sentiment in this thread.

Nothing about socialism would prevent this from happening. What exactly do you think capitalism and socialism are lol?
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I still don't understand the corporate apologists. What do they have to gain by disagreeing with videos like the one this topic is about? Anyway, I'm glad people are still willing to call out mtx, loot boxes and the like when they're clearly in place to take advantage of the situation. It really does boil down to greed. Games will continue to be designed around their inclusions and even though I try to vote with my money I still buy and succumb to practices I wish weren't prevelant in today's video games. I still won't ever lay down and be quiet. It's important to speak up against corporate greed because change isn't an impossibility.
 

Pata Hikari

Banned
Jan 15, 2018
2,030
I still don't understand the corporate apologists. What do they have to gain by disagreeing with videos like the one this topic is about? Anyway, I'm glad people are still willing to call out mtx, loot boxes and the like when they're clearly in place to take advantage of the situation. It really does boil down to greed. Games will continue to be designed around their inclusions and even though I try to vote with my money I still buy and succumb to practices I wish weren't prevelant in today's video games. I still won't ever lay down and be quiet. It's important to speak up against corporate greed because change isn't an impossibility.
Because they've tied their identity to corporate brands for some stupid reason so criticizing a corporation is directly attacking them in their eyes.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,419
OMG YES! People here seem to treat unions as a silver bullet...unions fight for fair compensation...that doesn't always lead to better business practices or less hours per week worked per employee.

But the ERA way is that unions are perfect in every way and solves everything. There is a reason why careers with increasing levels of education and income, fall off a cliff when it comes to the number of those careers with active unions.

This ties in with a post I've dredged up from time to time (including in a recent Jim thread, actually!) recounting my personal opinions on game budgeting from first-hand experience of trying to produce content:

So, there's absolutely a pervasive perception that it's not viable to produce AAA amounts of content without spending a lot more money unless you overwork a workforce. Where do you drive a wedge in that? I'm curious if Jim's viewpoint is that budgets are too high or too low, because there's an inherent awkward catch-22 in there.
 

Interficium

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,569
even though I try to vote with my money I still buy and succumb to practices I wish weren't prevelant in today's video games. I still won't ever lay down and be quiet. It's important to speak up against corporate greed because change isn't an impossibility.

I didn't know it was possible to stand up and lay down at the same time until now.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,093
Buenos Aires, Argentina
If companies are going to stop chasing graphics then the internet needs to stop outraging about stupid shit like "downgraded" puddles.

People here want their cake and want to eat it too. They want HD world environments, detailed character models, cutting edge physics, expansive voice acting, but oh yeah also all for only $60 but don't try to monetize your game anymore than that!

And then get confused when studios like Respawn makes great games with little monetization that not enough people buy (and FWIW I did buy TF2) so they get bought out by the bigger publishers. I'm not here to defend shareholders or executives but it's crazy to see such a strong public sentiment on this forum and others that games can be made on shoe string budgets or if they're made the right way then they'll always be profitable.
Thank you.
 

Ghostwalker

Member
Oct 30, 2017
582
The old classic tax avoiding trick is paying your employees and buying offices. This tricks the government into thinking you made less profit.

The trick is not to pay you employees or buy your office building and instead have another company you own based in a place that pays a lot less tax do it and charge you fee for providing the serve.

Now with the added bonus you can say development cost have gone up we need to have MTX
 

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,626
This ties in with a post I've dredged up from time to time (including in a recent Jim thread, actually!) recounting my personal opinions on game budgeting from first-hand experience of trying to produce content:

So, there's absolutely a pervasive perception that it's not viable to produce AAA amounts of content without spending a lot more money unless you overwork a workforce. Where do you drive a wedge in that? I'm curious if Jim's viewpoint is that budgets are too high or too low, because there's an inherent awkward catch-22 in there.

OMG that is such an amazing post. Some of these issues are built into the culture of game creation, and also, all STEM careers to an extent. I also made a similar posts after Telltale closed, mentioning how some of these issues can be resolved by everyone here promising to learn from these issues and become better managers/decision-makers when they start their own businesses.

Unfortunately...it's easy to criticize when you aren't making the decisions and it isn't your money on the line. People who leave overworked gaming jobs to start their own business, tend to overwork their employees in the same way, for all the reasons you mentioned.

But don't waste your time actually speaking about facts and reality...anything but saying corporations are bad in every way gets you turned into a "corporate shill".

I promise you, THE VAST MAJORITY of people in here screaming foul, will do the same or worse if they opened up their own business.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Because they've tied their identity to corporate brands for some stupid reason so criticizing a corporation is directly attacking them in their eyes.

Thats such a weird concept to me. I for example, would say I adore Nintendo. One of my favorite video game companies ever. But to take criticism personally of say, people calling out their overpriced Switch docks would just be insane. If people really connect themselves in such a way to a company then they need to realize how to separate themselves from that identity.
 
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Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I didn't know it was possible to stand up and lay down at the same time until now.

I mean it's totally possible. I'm not going to skip on Red Dead Redemption 2 just because they're more than likely including loads of mtx and working their crew 100+ hours a week. I'll still buy the game even though I don't want to support those practices.

I totally understand how hypocritical that sounds but I want to play it badly enough.
 

UsoEwin

Banned
Jul 14, 2018
2,063
I see the price of game raised thing thrown around a lot to make up for the rising cost of game development. What about the third option though, not having such outlandish budgets for games. "Bigger is better" is going to collapse on itself one day.
 

Interficium

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,569
I see the price of game raised thing thrown around a lot to make up for the rising cost of game development. What about the third option though, not having such outlandish budgets for games. "Bigger is better" is going to collapse on itself one day.

Probably should ask the puddlegate people what they think about that.
 

UsoEwin

Banned
Jul 14, 2018
2,063
Probably should ask the puddlegate people what they think about that.
I see the point you are making here, but I don't think that in specific is relatable. That was showing a product, and then showing it again with changes. Expectations were already set, regardless of how misguided they were.


I like my mid budget games these days. Not every game has to be a sweeping epic. The sheer size of some games like the newest iterations of AC actually turn me off of it. I enjoyed the Witcher 3 a ton, but I also enjoyed the smaller scoped Witcher 2.

I just don't think we can continually compound the price of development, there will be a breaking point somewhere.
 

Deleted member 15395

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,145
$10 markup, lol!

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

How much are you *really* willing to spend?

Considering I spent U$$280 on FFXV, I'd say certainly more than $60.

I can agree on being fairly off base with just a $10 mark-up, I put that in as a number without much thought. But lets be real, games already cost more than $60, you got limited special diamond gold whatever editions of every high profile game both digital and physical, we're not even talking about MTX here. And while I don't really agree with that model I do like the idea of games having different prices for different types of games.

If the industry is selling a premium product, I don't mind paying a premium price. I'd actually prefer it if it meant more content upfront and not having a store showing me a lot of goods we used to be able to unlock just by playing.

I guess the real question would be: how much more do publishers need to charge so they can make a profit on their games, keep their employes...well, employed and generally stay in business and would they be willing to do so?
 

NullPointer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,170
Mars
You don't need to deconstruct capitalism to come up with post-release content that isn't exploitative and that doesn't incentivize creating, preserving and extending annoyances in games to justify MTX solutions in the name of "choice".

And you can make a nice profit without zero-sum and "deal with it" tactics. Like selling additional content for instance.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
I see the price of game raised thing thrown around a lot to make up for the rising cost of game development. What about the third option though, not having such outlandish budgets for games. "Bigger is better" is going to collapse on itself one day.
Video game budgets are already too low to cover the cost of development. That's one of the reasons you end up with crunch and layoffs.

But also, the games industry is not a monolith. If you're one of the big publishers, good luck pitching to the board to aim for smaller projects with lower revenue when your competitors are trending the other way.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Siege is one of the best and most unique games to come out this gen. Without mtx Siege would have died a long time ago. So no mtx in a full priced game isn't inherently bad.

Without mtx AC Origins' post launch support would likely not have been as good, nor would the DLCs that came out would've been as cheap for the amount of content it had. Same for Ghost Recon, and For Honor.

Mtx ensures that developers get paid during the life cycle of the game. In the era of GaaS where it's expected for games to have constant support, free (or cheap) DLC and sizeable post launch content you can't just go "But it's a $60 game and they made enough money". Yes they did...but what about after the launch? People still need to get paid for the work they do after launch.

Granted there are bad mtx practices like Destiny where we have mtx, plus high priced DLCs and bite sized free updates to make up for mtx. Or games like Battlefront 2 or Shadow of War that were actually predatory and as such led to developers rolling them back. Ubisoft is one publisher that does it right I'm, and the proof is in their post launch support which is honestly unmatched imo.
 

UsoEwin

Banned
Jul 14, 2018
2,063
Video game budgets are already too low to cover the cost of development. That's one of the reasons you end up with crunch and layoffs.

But also, the games industry is not a monolith. If you're one of the big publishers, good luck pitching to the board to aim for smaller projects with lower revenue when your competitors are trending the other way.
Where will it stop though? At some point either the people you are getting money out of are not going to have the kind of money you need to create the game, or they will just deem it not worth spending that kind of money on.

This is something that perplexes me about all business that need to have such large year over year gains. There is a cap at some point, there always is.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
If companies are going to stop chasing graphics then the internet needs to stop outraging about stupid shit like "downgraded" puddles.

The internet outrages about a lot of things, yet companies mostly ignore it. Why is graphics and puddles any different? Just ignore puddles like they ignored gamergate. Silence served them well then.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
You enjoy being the target and victim of excessive greed? You enjoy having the game you've already paid for warped and twisted to squeeze every penny possible after the fact?

Funny, I'm a pretty active gamer and I can't remember the last time I paid for a MTX (likely back in Mass Effect 3) or had my gaming experience soured by it.

Hmmm, I must be playing wrong.
 

Deleted member 4353

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,559
Only thing I've learned from this topics is that this place will defend a game tirelessly as long as they like it even if said game has shitty practices.
 

XSX

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,164
Another video where Jim is on point but what else is new?

I remember reading EGM during the PS2 era and some exec was going on about how microtransactions were the future....I thought the idea sounded so cool :(