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Calibro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,822
Belarus


tl;dw version:
1) AAA publishers make enough money to free their games from unnecessary microtransactions and guarantee their workers fair pay and other benefits;
2) Let's not pretend they need our defense from criticism;
3) Developer unions need to come asap;
4) It's not about need, it's about greed;
5) This is the case regardless of the game in question, be it Battlefront II, Assassin's Creed Odyssey or Devil May Cry V.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
inb4 this thread goes off the rails because of AC Odyssey again.

Completely agree with him. All of these AAAA (because they aren't even AAA anymore) games would still be making money hand over fist without microtransactions or product tie-in deals, but they do it anyway for one simple reason.
 

Becks'

Member
Dec 7, 2017
7,470
Canada
Capitalism is a system that is always hungry. We created it. We allowed it. Now we see consequences of it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
Wow. Didn't expect him to make a counter video that pretty much addresses all the excuses people were making in the last thread. He had some salient points.
 

rhandino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,611
1) AAA publishers make enough money to free their games from unnecessary microtransactions and guarantee their workers fair pay and other benefits
2) Let's not pretend they need our defense from criticism;
4) It's not about need, it's about greed;
5) This is the case regardless of the game in question, be it Battlefront II, Assassin's Creed Odyssey or Devil May Cry V.
If this is accurate...

LMAO.

He is such an messy drama kween trainwreck.

Get those outrage coins~
 

DJwest

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,152
My favorite argument is when people say that because of inflation, games should be more expensive but they still only charge 60 dollars. So microtransactions are ok because wet should be charged way higher than 60 bucks
I'm....lost on words. Let's just say I fundamentally disagree with him.
please elaborate
 

Igniz12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,441
The AC thread and the DMC thread has made it seem like the general audience is willing to excuse and sometimes justify these kinds of practices. In both those cases the MTX were miles apart in terms of how much it encroached on the game but I feel like a few years back there would have been more backlash but this time there has been more overt defence of this stuff.
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
I agree that video game unions are a necessity, but let's not drag that argument into the fact that we hate microtransactions.

Also, let's not pretend that video game companies are in this industry out of the goodness of their hearts. They're in this to drain consumers of every last drop of money. They're all owned by conglomerates that only care about their bottom line. That's the nature of the industry.

Maybe we need to support indie publishers? But will gamers stop buying Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed?
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,932
Hard to disagree with anything he's saying here. With a couple of exceptions, greed is ruling (and ruining) the gaming industry now more than ever.

If publishers want F2P mechanics in their games, go ahead! Just make your game F2P and there won't be an issue.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,499
I mean, not only is Jim's shtick boring but it's becoming borderline stupid now. You're chastising publishers for practising capitalism, something most companies engage in on a daily basis.

You're effectively saying that companies shouldn't be making more money than they need to stay operationally fit.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
Based on the OP's summary;

The publishers, the ones who survived without going bankrupt in the mostly MTX-free era last gen, are currently making decent profit margins *because* of the MTX. Take that away, and they aren't. It's not that complicated. You just need to look at their public earnings reports. Of course it's much easier to just not do any basic research and just cry "greed". And before anyone complains about profits in general, learn what profit margins are and why they are important.
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
At the end of the day, whatever justifications there are to these monetization practices vis a vis "rising costs of development" ultimately fall flat because these aren't practices being used to offset costs, or not anymore at least, they are simply a means to make more money on top of whatever money was going to be made in the first place. Star Wars, Assassins Creed, Fifa, etc. don't need microtransactions to be profitable, they don't need a hyperinflated marketing budget to be profitable, they don't need multiple $80-100+ special editions, because they're already going to make bank on the merits of the brand alone.

I don't see why we can't push for the humane treatment of game developers and more focus on "middleware" or "AA" or "B" games instead of silently encouraging bigger and bigger games that ask more of the player's wallet and the developer's life so they can make X many more millions of dollars.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
Every time I see people on here say how publishers need to do this because "lol inflation and games are still $60" I just glance over at all these reports of these publishers making all time high profits this gen.

Yeah they're really struggling. Yves may only get 3 gold plated pools for his fourth mansion instead of 5. They're making bank off of basic psychology and then pushing a little harder every year just because they can.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
I mean, not only is Jim's shtick boring but it's becoming borderline stupid now. You're chastising publishers for practising capitalism, something most companies engage in on a daily basis.

You're effectively saying that companies shouldn't be making more money than they need to stay operationally fit.
CEO and Execs don't need to make tens of millions of dollars every year for a company to remain "operationally fit".

It'd be one thing if the massive profit margins from lootboxes went back to the developers, but they don't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Just because a game is free doesn't make the micro transactions in that game good.
Just because a game is paid doesn't make supplemental purchases bad.

Yes, businesses Exist to make money, but that doesn't make them bad either.
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,932
I mean, not only is Jim's shtick boring but it's becoming borderline stupid now. You're chastising publishers for practising capitalism, something most companies engage in on a daily basis.

You're effectively saying that companies shouldn't be making more money than they need to stay operationally fit.

You enjoy being the target and victim of excessive greed? You enjoy having the game you've already paid for warped and twisted to squeeze every penny possible after the fact?
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,499
Based on the OP's summary;

The publishers, the ones who survived without going bankrupt in the mostly MTX-free era last gen, are currently making decent profit margins *because* of the MTX. Take that away, and they aren't. It's not that complicated. You just need to look at their public earnings reports. Of course it's much easier to just not do any basic research and just cry "greed". And before anyone complains about profits in general, learn what profit margins are and why they are important.

You're expecting way too much of this forum unfortunately.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Honestly, I've already accepted microtransactions. But they need to be kept cosmetic.
 

Kanann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,170
They said they need MTX to survive, but even massive greedy business, studio still shutdown and laying off left and right.

Industry has been going (went) to the wrong way but we still lick their shoes because they make video games we love.
 

zombiejames

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,932
Based on the OP's summary;

The publishers, the ones who survived without going bankrupt in the mostly MTX-free era last gen, are currently making decent profit margins *because* of the MTX. Take that away, and they aren't. It's not that complicated. You just need to look at their public earnings reports. Of course it's much easier to just not do any basic research and just cry "greed". And before anyone complains about profits in general, learn what profit margins are and why they are important.

https://www.pcgamer.com/ea-tells-in...s-microtransactions-will-not-affect-earnings/
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Jim said Fee 2 Play, but it still sounds like the standard Pay to Play of $60. It should be more like Pay 2 Free 2 Play (P2F2P).
 

Hentailover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,417
Moscow
I also like how nobody is addressing the first point, where he talks about people screaming "MTX aren't affecting ME, it's not grindy for me". It really is such a 'fuck you got mine" attitude. WHo gives a shit, people with addiction get exploited. "I'm not exploited, everybody else can get bent" attitude is amazing. No wonder world is where it is, fi this is degree of sympathy average person has for other people.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Based on the OP's summary;

The publishers, the ones who survived without going bankrupt in the mostly MTX-free era last gen, are currently making decent profit margins *because* of the MTX. Take that away, and they aren't. It's not that complicated. You just need to look at their public earnings reports. Of course it's much easier to just not do any basic research and just cry "greed". And before anyone complains about profits in general, learn what profit margins are and why they are important.
This is bullshit. And the point is that not every game needs MTX to survive and if you think that's true you've basically fallen into their trap.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
Just because a game is free doesn't make the micro transactions in that game good.
Just because a game is paid doesn't make supplemental purchases bad.

Yes, businesses Exist to make money, but that doesn't make them bad either.

They're bad because despite making record profits they take the MTX to a worse level each year for no reason other than they want even more. NBA 2k series is virtually unplayable now because of how infested with VC it is. Madden and Fifa may as well not even be games anymore they're just shells of games that hold the UT shit which becomes a bigger part of the game every year. And here we are now with this year's AC where the MTX may be the same in number as Origins but the grind has been elevated a bit. Maybe not to an obscene level yet but it DID raise and you can see the trend happening like it did with those other games I mentioned. Like NBA 2k19 didn't get how it was in a year either it's been getting progressively worse for the last ~5 years.
 

fhqwhgads

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,535
I've always been surprised at how many corporate apologists there are on Era, even the biggest companies like Disney and Amazon have these vehement defenders going out of their way to justify terrible things. People need to learn that corporations are not your friends, that all this defending and cheerleading for them means nothing, the only thing that matters to them is you giving them your money.

To me, the weirdest part is that it's so blatantly obvious that AAA game development is so immensely unethical right now and yet people will still turn around to say "See, this is why we need microtransactions, there's no other solution to this! Companies will shut down without them!"
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,474


tl;dw version:
1) AAA publishers make enough money to free their games from unnecessary microtransactions and guarantee their workers fair pay and other benefits;
2) Let's not pretend they need our defense from criticism;
3) Developer unions need to come asap;

4) It's not about need, it's about greed;
5) This is the case regardless of the game in question, be it Battlefront II, Assassin's Creed Odyssey or Devil May Cry V.


Agreed. But from my understanding of how BFII worked compared to how I KNOW ACO works, that's a grossly disingenuous comparison.
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
Im all for better working conditions for workers.

But every video game company is out to make money.

The edited is just as true, which is why regulations do and should exist so that unethical behavior is curbed, because unfettered corporate interests are ultimately interested in making as large a profit at as low a cost as they are permitted/can get away with. The answer isn't to throw one's hands up and say "Nature of the beast, what'll ya do?" the answer is to actually step in and place limits and protections. Developer Unions would be a great place to start.
 
Last edited:

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,499
You enjoy being the target and victim of excessive greed? You enjoy having the game you've already paid for warped and twisted to squeeze every penny possible after the fact?

Your first mistake was making the baseless assumption that I'm a 'victim' of this. The only microtransactions I've ever touched are on Fortnite.

Secondly, I can't think of a single game that has been ruined for me because of the existence of microtransactions. I understand that there are some very underhand and predatory implementations, but what this whole argument boils down to is people not liking the fact that companies have a desire and sometimes need to earn money beyond the initial $60 boxed product.

This is fundamentally flawed rhetoric which in some cases shows a lack of understanding of the industry and business in general. But yes, paint me as a victim if you like, whatever that means.
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
You enjoy being the target and victim of excessive greed? You enjoy having the game you've already paid for warped and twisted to squeeze every penny possible after the fact?

Victim? For choosing to be a AAA gamer?

The United States charges people exorbitant amounts of money for health issues that aren't their fault. Lobbyists profit off of racist for-profit prisons, and politicians profit off of perpetuating them. People affected by that bullshit are victims of capitalism, not gamers who choose to pay for DLC.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
I mean, not only is Jim's shtick boring but it's becoming borderline stupid now. You're chastising publishers for practising capitalism, something most companies engage in on a daily basis.

he acknowledges this in the video with a bit of a wink

sincerely hoping Jim is building up to some broader radicalization turn lol
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
Sigh. Like the other poster said, I'm obviously expecting too much here. Let me explain the concept of sandbagging to you. Public companies have a private earnings forecast and a public one. Typically their private forecast is higher, then when they report "better than expected" earnings, the stock price often goes up. What EA said there was that their public forecast wasn't changing with the removal of SWB2 MTX. There are two obvious explanations there. One, sandbagging of estimates. Two, FIFA's FUT doing really well.