Lots of visual techniques probably go unnoticed unless explicitly told to most gamers.That doesn't mean they are unimportant.
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Demon's Souls won't support RayTracing
- Thread starter Raigor
- Start date
Lots of visual techniques probably go unnoticed unless explicitly told to most gamers.That doesn't mean they are unimportant.
I'm not sure if this is a serious post but I'll treat it as such for argument sake.
RT isn't mandated, it's supported. Devs will build their games however they see fit.
Who are you swearing at? People that are not bothered by the lack of RT? And what signs are you talking about exactly?
Damn Bluepoint YOU BLEW IT. How dare you make an amazing looking remake and not add RT to it, now I'm only going to play this game twice. Hey if there's one good thing about this news is that purist can be happy the game has another similarity to the original.
Well, damn, now it's officially the ugliest game ever made.
A big non-issue. Give me those frames.
A big non-issue. Give me those frames.
Sony just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about GAMER culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in social media where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw GAMERS over GAMES, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the GAMERS, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase a PS5, nor will they purchase any of Sony's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated GAMERS with this move.
Sony, publicly apologize and add ray tracing for Demon's Souls Remake you can kiss your business goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about GAMER culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in social media where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw GAMERS over GAMES, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the GAMERS, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase a PS5, nor will they purchase any of Sony's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sony has alienated GAMERS with this move.
Sony, publicly apologize and add ray tracing for Demon's Souls Remake you can kiss your business goodbye.
Yeah but TLOU II looks actually way better imo... and UE5 demo looks better than anything out (except character models and animation)
Due to the incredible visual fidelity and pristine particle effects (dragon fire actually looks like genuine fire), I could definitely live without ray tracing. I think Bluepoint probably removed ray tracing partly because it didn't improve the graphics that much to justify the performance cost. That makes most sense to me if they did remove it entirely. 4K 60fps with that graphical fidelity is next-gen enough to me.
The name of the Cryengine technology for Kingdom Come: Deliverance is SVOGI (Sparse voxel octree global illumination).
Thank you for being the only other person in years to mention that Unity had some of the best lighting of the generation. The first time the clouds passed over the sun and covered the map in shade was one of my biggest thus is next gen moments of the gen. Sadly, at least on Ps4, no other game accomplished that.
They need a remaster on Unity to set the stage for a return of single city ac games.
The fact that people complaining have to actually be told that RT isn't in the game after seeing multiple times to be mad really makes the concern hilarious.
For clarification, I was only expecting RT because the game was stated to have RT when it was announced. The sudden announcement of no RT a few weeks before launch makes it seem like a bait-and-switch.
He's not missing much tbh, I played through Control on my 2070 Super and I wasn't overly impressed with the slightly better shadows and reflections. In the end I turned it all off so I could get more fps.
There are other ways to make a game look better that impact performance than just adding RT.
Havent you heard? Its now unacceptable to not have Ray Tracing in your games!
In fact, its arguably anti-consumer not to have ray tracing!
/s
Take it from someone who didn't get a PC good enough for 60fps+ with most of the bells and whistles on until earlier this year...60fps is what you want. Its been a game changer for me and there is no going back. I'll gladly cut back a little bit here or there just to make sure I'm at a locked 60fps or above.
This reveal might be the biggest insult by a major gaming company in the past decade. I literally screamed "FUCK YOU" at my screen. I knew they said there wasn't going to be raytracing but the hype they created made me think they were just going to surprise us with it anyway. Absolutely unacceptable to do this to us. Once they knew raytracing was expected, they should've cancelled the game.
/s, obviously
/s, obviously
played Watch dogs on my PC yesterday. First game I've tried with RTX since getting a 3080. pretty much everything on ultra with RT on high. Looked..fine?
The most impressive ray tracing moments weren't the fancy reflections - it was times you weren't necessarily paying attention. The big puddle reflections etc you could probably emulate close enough with SSR or cube maps or a blend of the two. But things like shiny complex surfaces where you don't see a clear reflection but its much more reactive to your character moving or things moving around you than a simpler object would be that perhaps is just adjusting based on simple specular etc. And one time in a lab with glass doors and windows everywhere. I was running away from a guard and as I went to the doorway my own reflection 'ran towards me' becuase its a real reflection and I flinched thinking it was another guard
Its those moments where you forget the 'headlines' of RT and let it absorb into the overall feel of the world that'll be good to see in games over time. We need to wait for the pendulum of tech to swing from 'oh look ma, I got ray tracing!' back to something a little more considered.
If you were goign to pick a game with an art style/design least suited to RT, DS would be a pretty good pick. I think Plagiarize or DBT85 summed it up really well earlier (one of the cats anyway)
The most impressive ray tracing moments weren't the fancy reflections - it was times you weren't necessarily paying attention. The big puddle reflections etc you could probably emulate close enough with SSR or cube maps or a blend of the two. But things like shiny complex surfaces where you don't see a clear reflection but its much more reactive to your character moving or things moving around you than a simpler object would be that perhaps is just adjusting based on simple specular etc. And one time in a lab with glass doors and windows everywhere. I was running away from a guard and as I went to the doorway my own reflection 'ran towards me' becuase its a real reflection and I flinched thinking it was another guard
Its those moments where you forget the 'headlines' of RT and let it absorb into the overall feel of the world that'll be good to see in games over time. We need to wait for the pendulum of tech to swing from 'oh look ma, I got ray tracing!' back to something a little more considered.
If you were goign to pick a game with an art style/design least suited to RT, DS would be a pretty good pick. I think Plagiarize or DBT85 summed it up really well earlier (one of the cats anyway)
One of these days people will realize all these rendering techniques and features, raytracing, screen space reflections, cube maps, shadow maps, dynamic resolutions, anti aliasing, etc, are all just pieces of a puzzle the developer puzzles together to work towards achieving his design goals and artistic vision. Under development constraints mind you.
None of these pieces are essential, they are chosen and used in conjunction to achieve a vision. Raytracing is just another tool in the developers toolbox. Just because you have a new tool available doesn't mean you have to use it. Tools are just that, they can help you achieve your goals but if there are better ways to get to where you want to go, you leave them in the toolbox.
With how this game looks in its current state, I don't think there is much to criticize here regarding the decisions Blupoint Games made.
None of these pieces are essential, they are chosen and used in conjunction to achieve a vision. Raytracing is just another tool in the developers toolbox. Just because you have a new tool available doesn't mean you have to use it. Tools are just that, they can help you achieve your goals but if there are better ways to get to where you want to go, you leave them in the toolbox.
With how this game looks in its current state, I don't think there is much to criticize here regarding the decisions Blupoint Games made.
From what I've seen, I feel like this might be the most impressive looking game this holiday*, so whatever Bluepoint is doing clearly works. Perhaps if they started making the game in 2021 they might have chosen a different route for lighting, but here we are, and the game is gorgeous. I don't even understand why this is a thread. We know PS5 can do RT
* I've deliberately avoided looking at Cyberpunk footage, so perhaps that'll take the title?
* I've deliberately avoided looking at Cyberpunk footage, so perhaps that'll take the title?
"Slightly better shadows and reflections"? What even is this? RT vs. no RT is a night-and-day difference for reflections, lighting and material depth.
Like, there's a whole DF article dedicated to pointing out these differences, and it is not "slightly better".
Control PC: a vision for the future of real-time rendering?
Last week, we posed the question: has ray tracing finally found its killer app? While Minecraft RTX and Quake 2 RTX hav…
www.eurogamer.net
Saying "it's slightly different" is like saying shaders and texture mapping make games look slightly different than the way games used to render w/o them.
I'd rather take a framerate dip over holding back tech advances in gaming. I'm sure we'd all love to be playing our games looking like HD PS2 titles running at 60/120fps in 2020. We can worry about framerates once the tech is standardized and optimized rather than ignore it b/c "high framerate".
Honestly if ray tracing this generation is basically going to be limited to puddles and the odd reflection here and there, don't even bother with it. Wait until consoles are powerful enough to managed 4K60 with full path tracing across the board.
Yeah it'll take 2 generations to hit that but so be it.
Yeah it'll take 2 generations to hit that but so be it.
This made me remember all those "PC will actually hold consoles back" threads which were a good laugh then and even more now.
The game looks great without it so whatever. Perfromance > checkbox RT. I imagine very few if any games would have proper RT on consoles this gen while keeping FPS count stable. Maybe stuff like Fortnite, Minecraft, etc? Regardless, Demon's Souls looking this good without RT and having great sales hopefully will help other devs abandon RT easily if they can't implenent it without serious sacrifices.
The game looks great without it so whatever. Perfromance > checkbox RT. I imagine very few if any games would have proper RT on consoles this gen while keeping FPS count stable. Maybe stuff like Fortnite, Minecraft, etc? Regardless, Demon's Souls looking this good without RT and having great sales hopefully will help other devs abandon RT easily if they can't implenent it without serious sacrifices.
Yep. I do understand that. Ray-Tracing can take away a large part of iterating a scene by being able to place lighting dynamically and seeing the output instantly and it'll calculate reflections and shadows at the same time. Massive time-saver.
I'd like to know if a casted ray takes up more processing power to work out three elements - lighting, shadows and reflections - rather than if it was used to work out just a single of those elements?
It would have been interesting to see ray-tracing effects in Demon's Souls to compare what kind of visual enhancements it brings (especially when you can compare with two different modes). However the game looks absolutely stunning and is the only thing so far shown on PS5 and Xbox Series X that looks properly build for a new generation.
A single ray can't work out both reflections and shadows as the direction to send the ray is different. To work out shadows you send a ray toward the light to see if there's something between the light and the fragment (one ray per shadow-casting light). To work out reflections you send a ray in the direction the viewing ray is reflected (based on the surface angle).
If you really think that you are out of the loop. It's fucking demon's souls :p
Holy fucking embarrassment this thread
"I don't want a ps2 Hd looking game for 60 fps I want my next gen visuals"
Implying we're not getting both just because some arbitrary technique isn't being used.
The example you're using is literally from the build that had RT...
Also, thank you for completely missing the point and not understanding what was said.
So there are multiple rays casted at any one time to calculate the output. No wonder it's really expensive to use.
Thanks for that.
Regardless, the game looks astonishing. So no RT, who cares?