Demon's Souls won't support RayTracing

Hey Please · Oct 31, 2020

platocplx said:
im pretty sure this is raytracing based on this translation. real-time lighting indicates that its using some form of raytracing. It sounds like global illumination.

Appreciate the translation. I hope BP, in time, provides, in english, a statement highlighting whether any RT feature is being employed by DeS, and in which mode, without any ambiguity.

With regards to the "ray hitting the tree and sets it on fire", it sounds awfully like the moment from the montage at the end of the first gameplay trailer when a bolt of lighting hits a dry and dead tree as the player is about come through the archway in world 4-1, Shrine of Storms.

platocplx · Oct 31, 2020

Pai Pai Master said:
yeah, maybe a PR buzzword slip up from the marketing during the official announcement period, but no biggie. I've watched all of Gavin's recent interviews and he seems pretty sure we'll still love the HQ mode and I believe him.

I think it's great that they felt confident enough in the 60fps mode's image quality to show us all that version. it paid off and the 4K30 mode will probably still blow our heads off on a high quality display

I simply have no complaints about this game's visuals so this is more of a marketing thing than an issue with the game.

Yeah imo real-time lighting(global illumination) says it all, vs what he thinks they are referring to is Full-pathed Ray tracing which clearly it wouldn't have.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Oct 31, 2020

Muppet of a Man said:
Yeah, thanks. I fat fingered that.

Trust me when I say I understand, my good man.

I have perpetual beef with Android device touchscreen keyboards for this very reason. They simply ain't designed for folks with fingers as fat as mine 😝

benzy · Oct 31, 2020

platocplx said:
im pretty sure this is raytracing based on this translation. real-time lighting indicates that its using some form of raytracing. It sounds like global illumination.

Looks like a poor translation. I used google translate and it talks about lightning hitting a tree to set it on fire, which makes much more sense. Real-time lighting can also be done with rasterization instead of RT anyway.

"Q: Another word we've heard hundreds of times is ray tracing . Are we going to notice it so much? Lighting is a key element in Demon's Souls .

A: Indeed, one of the novelties is advanced lighting, now you will see more realistically when lightning hits a tree and sets it on fire. That is brand new and never existed in the original. Now we can do it because we have all that power with PS5. It's great. Demon's Souls for PlayStation 3 is an incredibly dark game. What we have done is, after evaluating the power of the PlayStation 5, we realize that we no longer had to activate or deactivate any light source, but we have been able to include light in real time thanks to advanced lighting techniques. So every aspect of the game lighting is in real time. It is dynamic. We have used the lighting as a way to guide the player through the levels, as little hints of where to go.

* We asked Sony about advanced lighting technique; apparently not Ray Tracing, but different. In the official blog it does appear as ray tracing. We await official confirmation to avoid a possible nomenclature confusion."

Mahonay · Oct 31, 2020

eso76 said:
You know what else didn't have RT? That UE5 demo.
Yeah, the one that looks leagues better than anything else you can play on any system.

It has it's own real time GI system, it uses Lumen tracing.

platocplx · Oct 31, 2020

Hey Please said:
Appreciate the translation. I hope BP, in time, provides, in english, a statement highlighting whether any RT features are being employed by DeS, and in which mode, without any ambiguity.

With regards to the "ray hitting the tree and sets it on fire", it sounds awfully like the moment from the montage at the end of the first gameplay trailer when a bolt of lighting hits a dry and dead tree as the player is about come through the archway in world 4-1, Shrine of Storms.

I think in gavins mind just speculating he's thinking they mean full pathed stuff that is way more taxing. But real time lighting def is a form of raytracing.

platocplx · Oct 31, 2020

benzy said:
Looks like a poor translation. I used google translate and it talks about lightning hitting a tree to set it on fire, which makes much more sense. Real-time lighting can also be done with rasterization instead of RT anyway.

"Q: Another word we've heard hundreds of times is ray tracing . Are we going to notice it so much? Lighting is a key element in Demon's Souls .

A: Indeed, one of the novelties is advanced lighting, now you will see more realistically when lightning hits a tree and sets it on fire. That is brand new and never existed in the original. Now we can do it because we have all that power with PS5. It's great. Demon's Souls for PlayStation 3 is an incredibly dark game. What we have done is, after evaluating the power of the PlayStation 5, we realize that we no longer had to activate or deactivate any light source, but we have been able to include light in real time thanks to advanced lighting techniques. So every aspect of the game lighting is in real time. It is dynamic. We have used the lighting as a way to guide the player through the levels, as little hints of where to go.

* We asked Sony about advanced lighting technique; apparently not Ray Tracing, but different. In the official blog it does appear as ray tracing. We await official confirmation to avoid a possible nomenclature confusion."

Yeah don't use google translate deepL is way better. Some things get missed at times with google it seems like. But yeah guess we will see real time lighting def is something advanced.

Timu · Oct 31, 2020

El-Pistolero said:
This is not the "Raytracing" console generation. It will be used sparingly and as a nice bonus here and there, possibly a bit more extensively in simpler, less complex titles. I expect the PS6 and the next Xbox to actually be where/when the rendering will switch to fully adopting it.

Yep, exactly, it's too early for ray tracing to be as common without sacrifices in resolution, performance and such. I think the Pro models for PS5 and XSX will do a better job performance wise at least. But PS6/next Xbox is where it's at!

Nekyrrev · Oct 31, 2020

Vidpixel said:
Honestly, while I understand ray-tracing is the future, it's funny to me that arguably one of the best looking games coming out doesn't need it to look amazing.

No game needs ray tracing to look amazing, but this tech can help push visuals even further. I'm sure we will see a whole lot of incredible looking next gen games that don't include any form of ray tracing. its usefulness really vary on a game to game basis. For example, Ray traced reflections make a huge difference in spider man because there are huge reflective surfaces absolutely everywhere. Not so much in demon's souls.
Ray traced global illumination is something else tho, it would be a game changer, visually speaking, in any game. But it is really really taxing.

Jamaro · Oct 31, 2020

Since RT isn't something I've experienced yet, I couldn't care less. I'm not sure I would even know if RT was in, and the game looks amazing to me as is so far. I'm sure if someone could toggle a switch between theoretical RT on and what they have now I'd notice a difference, but whatever, this is a non factor for me.

eso76 · Oct 31, 2020

Mahonay said:
It has it's own real time GI system, it uses Lumen tracing.

as do other games, I mean the only pseudo issue here, if people really want to find one, is that RT was expressly mentioned, but so what, DS looks pretty great as it is.

Disker · Oct 31, 2020

Meh I really don't care, looks fantastic, and if people said the footage shown supported RT i would've believed it.

Games don't need it to look good honestly, but that is my opinion.

People were still under the assumption it did and they said it looked amazing, now that they say it doesn't should change their opinions haha.

Ringten · Oct 31, 2020

Raigor said:
DF is wrong then?

Digital Foundry| Demon's Souls Remake: Gameplay Trailer Tech Breakdown + First Next-Gen Frame-Rate Analysis

The game was running in native 1440P, but Bluepoint's AA and motion blur makes everything so crispy that is hard to point this out even through pixel counting. It was very likely running on Performance mode, Graphics 4K mode expected to look good. No signs of raytraced shadows The game was...

www.resetera.com

I see it has already been discussed, but wanted to say DF is top tier and never claimed then to be wrong. I simply didn't remember their analysis.

the Gameinformer interview was the most recent update, and the thing I remembered where the developer said 'dynamic 4k@60 & native 4k@30"

around the 4:50 mark in this video

Demon's Souls PlayStation 5 Interview: Fractured Mode, Sixth Archstone, And More

Join Dan Tack and Alex Stadnik as they sit down with Gavin Moore, creative director at SIE Worldwide Studios External Development to discuss Fractured Mode, ...

youtu.be

names2hard4you · Oct 31, 2020

If this is true I'll for sure play in Performance mode. I was thinking of playing in the 30fps mode because of RT, but it's not in the game the decision is easy

Deleted member 76797 · Oct 31, 2020

Raytracing is cool and all but I'm not sure it's worth the huge performance hit.

Kabuki Waq · Oct 31, 2020

Good because most of the wow factor from the trailers is due to the silky smooth framerate

PLASTICA-MAN · Oct 31, 2020

What????? Why? They promsied at least RT shadows before.

Jade1962 · Oct 31, 2020

Glad I only care about the final product and not how they get there. Last I checked everyone thought the Gameplay Trailer #2 looked amazing. Nothing has changed to me whether this information is true/false or mistranslated.

WhtR88t · Oct 31, 2020

Yeah… kind of getting bored of all the spec/technology chasing.

Either the game runs smooth and looks good or it doesn't. Who cares if it's using DLSS, RT, RDNA2, whatever the new acronym is.

VanWinkle · Oct 31, 2020

Nayeon said:
I'm confused. Is RT in or not? The game has two modes, 4K30 and dynamic 4k60. Does the 4K30 mode include RT now or does it not? If it does, I'll play in that mode exclusively.

Bud, it's right in the title. "Demon's Souls won't support raytracing"

Roxas · Oct 31, 2020

I mean if this is true then there's no freaking way I'm not playing it on 60fps, I thought by doing that I was giving up RT, weirdly enough this is good news

VanWinkle · Oct 31, 2020

PLASTICA-MAN said:
What????? Why? They promsied at least RT shadows before.

When did they do that?

Malkier · Oct 31, 2020

Honestly could care less, but puzzles at how this misinformation came about.

I want Demon's Souls 2 based on looks alone soooo... what's the big deal.

Minsc · Oct 31, 2020

I still think this reflections ray tracing demo is the most visually impressive piece I've seen, even better than the UE5 demo.

PLASTICA-MAN · Oct 31, 2020

VanWinkle said:
When did they do that?

New Demon's Souls Gameplay and info! News

www.resetera.com

But someone pointed me to this post:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...unsupported-ots.306661/page-259#post-49983691

and this interview: https://freegametips.com/this-is-ho...ed-meeting-the-first-great-ps5-exclusive/?amp

Another word we've heard hundreds of times is ray tracing. Are we going to notice it so much? Lighting is a key element in Demon's Souls.

Indeed, one of the novelties is ray tracing, now you will see more realistically when lightning hits a tree and sets it on fire. That is brand new and never existed in the original. Now we can do it because we have all that power with PS5. It's great.

Demon's Souls for PlayStation 3 is an incredibly dark game. What we have done is, after evaluating the power of the PlayStation 5, we realize that we no longer had to activate or deactivate any light source, but we have been able to include light in real time thanks to ray tracing. So every aspect of the game lighting is in real time. It is dynamic. We have used the lighting as a way to guide the player through the levels, as little hints of where to go.

From Creative Director so it's a true promise. So no way thiey are cutting it. Seems the site in OP confused RT reflections wiith RT overall. Many fail to grasp the concept of RT and they think it's all reflections so no RT reflections for them means no RT.

Neo Ankh · Oct 31, 2020

Game is stunning at 60fps. Really curious to see how much better the 30fps mode could look.

Pancracio17 · Oct 31, 2020

Yeah, I dont think people will care a whole lot this early into the gen.

VanWinkle · Oct 31, 2020

PLASTICA-MAN said:
New Demon's Souls Gameplay and info! News

www.resetera.com

But someone pointed me to this post:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...unsupported-ots.306661/page-259#post-49983691

and this interview: https://freegametips.com/this-is-ho...ed-meeting-the-first-great-ps5-exclusive/?amp

From Creative Director so it's a true promise. So no way thiey are cutting it. Seems the site in OP confused RT reflections wiith RT overall. Many fail to grasp the concept of RT and they think it's all reflections so no RT reflections for them means no RT.

The first URL you posted says "beautiful shadow effects AND ray tracing," nothing about ray-traced shadows. Secondly, that was the only time they EVER mentioned ray-tracing in an official capacity. This led me to be skeptical that it was legitimately there, since all the other games with ray-tracing are always shouting it from the rooftop, and yet Bluepoint hasn't mentioned ray-tracing once themselves? Unlikely.

Regarding the second, it was posted earlier in this thread that the word "ray-tracing" was likely a translation error, and the game director was rather just talking about the use of real-time lighting. I highly doubt the game has ray-traced global illumination, or we'd be hearing about it a lot more than in just a translated interview.

Hayeya · Oct 31, 2020

Playboi Carti said:
It doesn't have RT because it wasn't in the plans from the very beginning, not because it's costly or whatever.

Talking in general.

Deleted member 8752 · Oct 31, 2020

Minsc said:
I still think this reflections ray tracing demo is the most visually impressive piece I've seen, even better than the UE5 demo.

We'll see that on PS6 most likely.

ghibli99 · Oct 31, 2020

Would have been cool to have it for the 30fps version, but that's OK. Maybe in a future update or something, but no biggie if not.

Equanimity · Oct 31, 2020

Gavin Moore mentioned that the cinematic (30fps) mode has real time lighting and shadows, I wonder what type of tech he is referring to.

Any idea?

LightKiosk · Oct 31, 2020

If raytracing won't be present in 4K30 or the dynamic 4K60, then I'm simply going dyanmic 4K60 all the way.

Dolce · Oct 31, 2020

Bring back flat lighting. I want my games to be like 2D and even 3D animation not real life.

benzy · Oct 31, 2020

PLASTICA-MAN said:
New Demon's Souls Gameplay and info! News

www.resetera.com

But someone pointed me to this post:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...unsupported-ots.306661/page-259#post-49983691

and this interview: https://freegametips.com/this-is-ho...ed-meeting-the-first-great-ps5-exclusive/?amp

From Creative Director so it's a true promise. So no way thiey are cutting it. Seems the site in OP confused RT reflections wiith RT overall. Many fail to grasp the concept of RT and they think it's all reflections so no RT reflections for them means no RT.

I think that freegametips site seems to be stealing content from other websites. That interview was taken from here, Gavin never mentioned ray-tracing in his answer.

platocplx · Oct 31, 2020

Equanimity said:
Gavin Moore mentioned that the cinematic (30fps) mode has real time lighting and shadows, I wonder what type of tech he is referring to.

Any idea?

this is a good breakdown on the difference.

What's the Difference Between Ray Tracing, Rasterization? | NVIDIA Blog

Not many people outside of computer graphics know what ray tracing is, but there aren’t many people on the planet who haven’t seen it. A quick primer.

blogs.nvidia.com

Wildtuzo · Oct 31, 2020

Hi. I'm the one who wrote the article for LEVEL UP. We asked about raytracing and Moore told us there is no ray-tracing and that they never planned to use it.

Here you can check the original quote transcribed using Otter and next week we will publish the interview in video. I hope this helps

tmac456 · Oct 31, 2020

Game looks incredible. Why does anyone give a shit about RT when a game looks that good?

Alexx · Oct 31, 2020

No ray tracing makes the 4K 30 fps mode a lot less impressive.

LilScooby77 · Oct 31, 2020

I mean who isn't gonna play this at 60?

Crossing Eden · Oct 31, 2020

Gravijah said:
I want my games to be like 2D and even 3D animation not real life.

This makes no sense. Stylization would only look better with more accurate lighting, shadows, and reflections. ESPECIALLY if you want it to look like 3D animated films. Which have way more accurate lighting than video games. See TS4 as an example:

It genuinely makes 0 sense to at any point ever be opposed to the idea of raytracing becoming the norm in video games.

Richietto · Oct 31, 2020

Alexx said:
No ray tracing makes the 4K 30 fps mode a lot less impressive.

Yeah Im not sure the point of cinematic mode is. Like 4K is nice but the performance mode at 60fps with a variable 1440p-4k just seems so much better. Going for a locked 4K when you can have something thats still great like 1440p at 60fps is just the better deal.

Crossing Eden said:
This makes no sense. Stylization would only look better with more accurate lighting, shadows, and reflections. ESPECIALLY if you want it to look like 3D animated films. Which have way more accurate lighting than video games. See TS4 as an example:

It genuinely makes 0 sense to at any point ever be opposed to the idea of raytracing becoming the norm in video games.

Fuck TS4 is disgustingly beautiful.

Tahnit · Oct 31, 2020

remanutd said:
So basically ps5 isn't as powerful as sony is saying it is? I don't understand why they didn't designed a more powerful console, they had an stellar generation with the ps4, they should have gone all out with the ps5, let's see how things turns out for them, I'm buying a ps5 because I must play the next God of War but I do think they should have designed a better console, when you see a company hyping a controller and how fast the console is, you already know they lacking in the power department.

....what?

The ps5 IS powerful. Its very powerful. Its powerful enough. They were never going to get 3080-3090 performance in a 400 dollar console. But what is there is perfectly fine.

You must not understand how demanding raytracing is. Its extremely demanding moreso when you addin raytraced GI,shadows ect. Reflections are the cheapest raytracing effect and they still harm performance.

Raytracing IS the future of rendering however. Eventually all games will be path traced aka quake 2 rtx. But it wont be for another 10 years or so.

Dolce · Oct 31, 2020

Crossing Eden said:
This makes no sense. Stylization would only look better with more accurate lighting, shadows, and reflections. ESPECIALLY if you want it to look like 3D animated films. Which have way more accurate lighting than video games. See TS4 as an example:

It genuinely makes 0 sense to at any point ever be opposed to the idea of raytracing becoming the norm in video games.

I'm not against raytracing necessarily, I just prefer flat lighting. It's why I find lighting in older 3D games more appealing to modern ones. I'm not a huge fan of how modern Pixar films look either as they look way too close to real life.

This is closer to my ideal for video game lighting.

Equanimity · Oct 31, 2020

platocplx said:
this is a good breakdown on the difference.

What's the Difference Between Ray Tracing, Rasterization? | NVIDIA Blog

Not many people outside of computer graphics know what ray tracing is, but there aren’t many people on the planet who haven’t seen it. A quick primer.

blogs.nvidia.com

Thank you. Will read this in a bit.

Hogendaz85 · Oct 31, 2020

I'm cool with games having it or not having it, as long as the game is fun and interesting.
Demon's Souls still looks great

Crossing Eden · Oct 31, 2020

Gravijah said:
I'm not against raytracing necessarily, I just prefer flat lighting. It's why I find lighting in older 3D games more appealing to modern ones. I'm not a huge fan of how modern Pixar films look either as they look way too close to real life.

Do they though? The lighting may be way more accurate than it was in the past but Pixar films still look incredibly stylized. Like this isn't what real life looks like:

Good lighting only serves to help stylization look better.

Tahnit · Oct 31, 2020

Jamaro said:
Since RT isn't something I've experienced yet, I couldn't care less. I'm not sure I would even know if RT was in, and the game looks amazing to me as is so far. I'm sure if someone could toggle a switch between theoretical RT on and what they have now I'd notice a difference, but whatever, this is a non factor for me.

go play control on an RTX capable pc or the new consoles.

RoboPlato · Oct 31, 2020

With all the gameplay footage shown being in the performance mode, it really feels like making the game look great at 60fps was the main goal and the high res mode just exists mainly for people who want native res above all else. Hitting 60fps with RT at launch would be a tough goal, even for a team as talented as Bluepoint.

The PS Blog just needs to get it's shit together when talking about things like this so devs don't have to answer for the mistakes of that team.

Crossing Eden · Oct 31, 2020

All that said about RT I can't imagine why anyone would play this at 30fps.

Demon's Souls won't support RayTracing

2020 Member Elect

2020 Member Elect

2020 Member Elect

Prophet of Truth

Alt-Account

▲ Legend ▲

User requested account closure

One Winged Slayer

2020 Member Elect

One Winged Slayer