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I agree, assuming that was your home console it should have used the offline licence you got for the game when it installed.
That's a system bug that needs fixing.
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Demystifying Xbox's DRM and offline mode
- Thread starter gothi
- Start date
That's a system bug that needs fixing.
W/o the "home console" concept (where you CAN play the game offline), then you could download that game to 100s of Xbox's and play it all simultaneously.
The DRM stops that.. but allows you to have that ONE console where you do "own the game offline." And also allows game sharing, where 2 copies of the same game can be used at the same time..
This isn't just an MS thing either... Playstation has the exact same setup..
edit: And Nintedo:
Nintendo Support: What Are the Differences Between a Primary and Non-Primary Nintendo Switch Console?
en-americas-support.nintendo.com
One thing I appreciate about Sony's is you can have a "Primary" PS4, and a "Primary" PS5 where as Microsoft only allows one "Home" console across multiple generations of Xbox.
Yeah I noticed this when I got a PS5 it was automatically my home console, and I checked and saw that I still had one of my PS4s as home.
I'm sure people know this. The problem is even if your xbox is set as your account's home console, there seems to be cases where you can be locked out from playing digital content you own when server issues occur. It's happened to me in the past with an xbox one and still seems to happen today, based on that post by MinusTydus before yours. Why it happens and doesn't seem to affect everyone, I do not know.For digital games Sony has the EXACT SAME system except they call it your 'Primary" console instead of your "Home' console.
I hope people at least realize that.. I know this because I've been.. unable to play my SP games when PSN is down lol
There are a myriad of other weird "license scenarios" that are wonky on PS and unique to it to.
As far as digital games go.. this DRM is what enables game sharing for both Xbox and Playstation.. w/o it there's pretty much zero chance we'd get digital game sharing... I mean really w/o it there's not much of a chance publishers would support digital downloads at all.... as you could just download games to any number of friends machines and have them use your account "offline" to play them until they are done.
I don't really disk game so can't comment on that part, and my understanding is PS is better.. but I really feel like this thread is full of people unaware of the main issue here (digital downloads on non-home/primary console require license check) is the same.
Not sure about Sony because I've never had such issues before (with a primary console)
I can put a PS4 disc in my PS5 and play without needing to download anything. Before that I could put my PS2 games in my launch PS3 or my GameCube games in my wii. Before that I could put my ps1 games in my PS2. I could put my gameboy advance, gameboy color and gameboy games in my DS.
None of the above required an online connection to boot.
Compression exists. Very few games are too large for a double layer bluray with compression. If the day 1 game can't fit in a single disc then print more than one disc. You shouldn't be selling a disc that isn't playable without downloading content or licensing first. That's the point if having a disc.
Publishers have reasons for wanting Microsoft to have a setup online activation? Why dues that matter? Publishers are ok with PS5 or switch not needing one but for some reason Microsoft has to? Or is it because Microsoft wants more control over their whole digital license ecosystem. End of the day this brings nothing positive to the person who bought the damn console. It's only a potential source of frustration or confusion.
More granular management of licensing with individual categorization based on method of acquisition be that physical purchase , digital purchase or subscription lease. Different license types should allow for more control over enforcement and necessity (or intervals) of online checkins instead of enforcing a blanket monthly check in for all games.
There are 0 reasons to lock you out of games you own on physical disc. You should be able to insert the game and play whatever version was printed on that disc be it release or goty reprint or whatever. You should not have to connect online to be able to play the game you paid to have on disc. DRM for discs is easy enough: Tie the ability to play the game to the presence of the disc in the drive. End of story.
You say "that's not true" and then go on to lay out numerous scenarios where it is true. If I go buy an Xbox game that has the Xbox series label on it (which let's not even get into the labeling on their boxes cause that is a whole other thing) I can not be sure it will work without connecting online. There is a good chance it will not. Compare this to going and buying a PS5 game. If I go and buy a PS5 game on disc and take it home and try to start it up I can be sure that with the rarest of exceptions I can boot that game up and play it. That is a huge difference.
Now if I decide I want to play an XB1 game on my Series console while I'm on vacation without access to an internet connection? Whelp too bad for me. Say I take a PS5 with me instead and decide to pop a PS4 disc in. Oh hey no problems there at all.
So yea. The picture seems pretty clear to me.
And how exactly does Microsoft verify that a digital game is entitled to launch? In a world where consoles (eventually/often) get hacked and modded, and the game is available via torrents on the web? That's one of the problems being solved with an online check.
I get that it's annoying if the server is down. But what is the alternative? Turn a blind eye to piracy? Seriously - open to pragmatic answers or thoughts here.
Pretty close! I'd uplevel your main issue to "is this person entitled to play this game on this hardware" - everything falls out of that.For digital games Sony has the EXACT SAME system except they call it your 'Primary" console instead of your "Home' console.
I hope people at least realize that.. I know this because I've been.. unable to play my SP games when PSN is down lol
There are a myriad of other weird "license scenarios" that are wonky on PS and unique to it to.
As far as digital games go.. this DRM is what enables game sharing for both Xbox and Playstation.. w/o it there's pretty much zero chance we'd get digital game sharing... I mean really w/o it there's not much of a chance publishers would support digital downloads at all.... as you could just download games to any number of friends machines and have them use your account "offline" to play them until they are done.
I don't really disk game so can't comment on that part, and my understanding is PS is better.. but I really feel like this thread is full of people unaware of the main issue here (digital downloads on non-home/primary console require license check) is the same.
I see these perspectives - but what would the alternative be to also have the advantages that this strategy gives users (and MS)?
To me this is just really the direction things are going in many areas around how we use/interact with software (for better or worse).
this has always been annoying as fuck for me, since my apartments internet needs the MAC address of a device before it can go online
and the MAC address isnt on the box or console, its in the settings menu
and i cant get to the settings menu until i set up my console
and i cant set up my console until i connect to the internet
and i cant connect to the internet UNTIL I GET THE MAC ADDRESS 😡
i had to drive my xbox to my work office to set it up the last two times i bought xbox's :/
Flashbacks to taking my Xbox to hotels which grant access via mac addresses.
Really really stupid you can't access advanced setwork settings during setup.
This is not how the DRM was suppose to work at all. It was a bug and bugs could've also happened to Sony, Nintendo, Steam or anyone else. So I don't know why this bug keeps getting brought up, when discussing DRM on those platforms.
Xbox actually does offer this for non smart delivery Series X games.
Smart Delivery Discs have to be readable by Xbox One base model. The console only reads 50GB BR iirc and thus there is a space limit. For all the advantages Smart Delivery has, that is a downside of the whole method.
Have fun making Jaguar CPU of Xbox one recompile 360 games at runtime.
Some of the suggested were nice and people having suggestions is obviously fine. And yes there are things Xbox should do better with. For example Xbox One configuration files imo. But as these two examples above show, people got no idea what technical hurdles there are.
What? Their method is literally the reason 360 games can be played on Xbox One, because Xbox One unlike some of the examples you mentioned doesn't have the full 360 hardware in it. Wii U for example had essentially a Wii in HW in it. Then there is the hurdle of going from PowerPC to x86, which means recompiling is necessary. There was literally no other way on a jaguar CPU and that suddenly is anti consumer? Ok...
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I've been with out internet in my house the past couple of weeks and I can confirm my downloaded games that do not need to connect to a server work fine. I cannot earn achievements or access cloud saves of course but any games that I have installed work because it is marked as my home Xbox.
The only downloaded game that has acted weird is with XCom 2. That game will not save correctly and I've lost save files from it. Auto and manual saves encounter this issue. This is literally the only game I've played recently that did this.
The majority of my library is digital but I do have an NHL game disc that was installed when I had internet. I can still put in the disc and I've been playing it every night for over a week.
My wife wanted to play her Dragon Age Inquision game but her home console was still listed as our older Xbox One and not our Xbox One X. We tethered her phone to the Xbox, selected to make the console the home Xbox and there hasn't been an issue since. This was done this past Saturday morning. Before she did this when I would sign on it would show the game as just a trial for me. Now it is showing as being the whole game.
Another thing to add is parental controls. My children both have limitations set for their Xbox accounts that limit how long they can play games. If my wife and I are not signed in it will immediately tell my children they need to be online to sign in. If either one of us is signed in while they try to sign in it will recognize the previous rules set up. For example for my oldest son he can only play 3 hrs total on Saturday. Once that time ran close or completed it still gave the option to add more time for him as it normally does while connected to the internet.
The only downloaded game that has acted weird is with XCom 2. That game will not save correctly and I've lost save files from it. Auto and manual saves encounter this issue. This is literally the only game I've played recently that did this.
The majority of my library is digital but I do have an NHL game disc that was installed when I had internet. I can still put in the disc and I've been playing it every night for over a week.
My wife wanted to play her Dragon Age Inquision game but her home console was still listed as our older Xbox One and not our Xbox One X. We tethered her phone to the Xbox, selected to make the console the home Xbox and there hasn't been an issue since. This was done this past Saturday morning. Before she did this when I would sign on it would show the game as just a trial for me. Now it is showing as being the whole game.
Another thing to add is parental controls. My children both have limitations set for their Xbox accounts that limit how long they can play games. If my wife and I are not signed in it will immediately tell my children they need to be online to sign in. If either one of us is signed in while they try to sign in it will recognize the previous rules set up. For example for my oldest son he can only play 3 hrs total on Saturday. Once that time ran close or completed it still gave the option to add more time for him as it normally does while connected to the internet.
Great thread. I'm glad this issue is getting more attention lately.
4k Bluray has been out for years, which is double the capacity of standard blurays. If multiple discs is such a financial burden, why not charge an extra dollar or however much it costs specifically for games that utilize them? and 20-30% of consumers wanting to buy physical media seems like a lot! that's 100 million people just in the US!
That's a big assumption given what we've seen so far; it's probably best sticking to facts and knowns for this thread.
My brother in law is still living in the 7th gen. I've got 2 ps4s and a ps4 pro sat here doing nothing since we've got ps5s now. This post made me realise that I should give him the pro and let him loose on my library of 100s of digital games - I'll make sure he thanks you.
But that's all just a part of the incredible f~l~e~x~i~b~i~l~i~t~y. Seriously though, there should be a way past that other than having the joy of getting going with your new machine turned into even more of a chore or pain than it inevitibly turns out to be anyway. Is your situation all that common? Never seen it mentioned before. That would have been extra fun during lockdowns when people weren't going into work and were not allowed to go inside others homes.
A Xbox developer on era confirmed native Series X discs can be installed offline. Considering by the end of the generation cross gen games will be in the minority the statement by gothi is true.
Post in thread 'So the Xbox Series X has one time DRM for disc based games? Even single player? [Answered at Threadmark]' https://www.resetera.com/threads/so...r-answered-at-threadmark.395149/post-60932641
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Morning RexNovis, I appreciate that was very late (at least for me) when I was posting but to be clear I didn't say "that's not true" I said "that's not strictly true". The former implies a very binary state, the latter that it's more fluid, hence explaining the scenarios where your statement is true.
And I guess that's part of the frustration for people who buy discs. In your recent example you could happily play that XB1 game on your Series X whilst on vacation, but only if you'd installed it previously with an internet connection. But that's steps you had to take before the vacation (or needing to connect online whilst away from home).
This is why I'm a proponent of providing those config files for offline install, this isn't necessarily a DRM check so why not lean into it and allow those XB1discs to be used offline with no exceptions.
It is a big assumption, but Series X only discs exist today and I cannot see a situation where publishers are going to continue making Smart Delivery discs with Xbox One code on them when Series X becomes the majority disc based Xbox platform. That said, I think you're right and sticking to the facts/knowns is the right thing to do.
C'mon. That's me explaining why it became a wall of text, there's no need to start using as an insult.
The system allows you to install games you don't own (and I don't mean Game Pass, I mean you can install any game from the store without needing to purchase it first)! It allows you to then use a disc with that install without requiring any other download. It allows you to run games from 20 years ago. There's a lot of scenarios to cover that don't exist on the other platforms.
Absolutely and that makes the situation more complicated. I like the thread.
I feel like i wanna puke Every time i see these online problems and how they are affecting you playing games you own, especially SINGLE PLAYER GAMES YOU OWN AND HAVE INSTALLED.
Sorry, but Always Online DRM for Offline games no matter what you call it and why you do it should called out but all and protested.
Don't know if i am writing in the correct thread or not, but i am still angry with MK11 and GT7 :( , yes you can play them, but your progress is not saved.
Sorry, but Always Online DRM for Offline games no matter what you call it and why you do it should called out but all and protested.
Don't know if i am writing in the correct thread or not, but i am still angry with MK11 and GT7 :( , yes you can play them, but your progress is not saved.
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That's understandable. I've added a header trying to address that and reformatted the post so it's a bit less daunting, hopefully that'll help somewhat.
It's not quite that easy - the cost of duplicating a game disc (even if based on Bluray) is significantly more expensive due to additional work done for copy protection, certification, etc. And the game publisher traditionally pays their royalty to the console publisher on a per disc basis, which pushes the price up even more. All I can say is that publishers loved the shift to digital for multiple reasons, including getting back some of their margin. You might look for a chart OnLive did a few years ago that outlined the costs a game publisher has to deal with when game publishing - it's the closest to "public" information I can think of that might help give more visibility into this space.
No if you don't have your console set to offline the Xbox connects and downloads content from online before allowing you to play. There's a reason "install" times are way longer on Xbox it's because it's connecting online and downloading content before allowing you to play. If the game actually has the full release on disc and you have set your console to offline mode then yes it will work like a PS4. Problem here being that Xbox games do not have the full content on disc a LOT of the time. This according to people who test physical discs for playability
Therein lies the issue. Smart delivery was just a way to allow for printing only XB1 discs and not have to print a seperate SKU line of XBS discs. It was a cost saving measure on MS' that eliminated one of the primary reasons to own a physical copy of a game rendering said game unplayable without downloading content first.
This doesn't just extend to Smart Delivery discs though. Try putting Halo Infinite in a series console without an internet connection.There are plenty of other games like it that are printed as partial installs on disc fir Xbox series consoles.
Rather than have individual wrappers you could have an emulator with installable configs that could be manually updated over time to allow games to be played directly off disc. If installs need to be compiled to run then there's no reason you couldn't allow a compiler with confide ti be hosted locally on the system. Yea it might take a lot longer to install but it would work off disc with no potential expiration date down the road. As it is now, their backwards compatibility is tied to ability to connect to their servers which, from a long term preservation POV, is horrible.
You have no idea what I do or what my level of understanding is. What we can tell from some of the responses in this thread like your own is that there will always be people who wanna come in and downplay the issues people have with the way Xbox handles their licensing, backwards compatibility and physical games. Instead of acknowledging that hey they can do a better job (especially since their competition already does) instead y'all wanna point fingers at the people taking issue and tell them they just don't get it.
We do get it. We are the ones that are frustrated by having to deal with it. You and the platform you enjoy would be better suited by listening to the issues we have with it than dismissing them.
Saying something isn't strictly true is just euphemism for saying it's false. Either I can put my games in an offline XSX and play them or I can't. The fact some work and some don't means that you cannot always be guaranteed that you are able to play the game you bought straight from disc. That is a major problem for folks whose main appeal for buying physical media is the ability to play their games off the discs they purchased years down the road if they want to.
Preinstalling something before taking a vacation might seem like a minor inconvenience but let's think longer term. Let's say after the XBS consoles are no longer supported and cannot connect to XBL anymore that I want to break mine out and play one of my games.
Well if the system was reset or needed a fresh os install I'd be SOL because I have to connect to Microsoft in order to even set the damn thing up.
If the game I grabbed was a 360 game or an XB1 game that would need to connect to their servers to download the wrapper to run them so whelp can't play those games.
If the game I grabbed was a "smart delivery" game it would have to download the actual XSX game content to run so I can't play that either.
then there's the XSX games that require online connection to run or install because either the disc has an incomplete version of the game on it (hi Halo Infinite) or it runs as an always online game that requires connection to whatever publishers back end to work.
So yea to someone who cares about being able to play the games they physically own in perpetuity Xbox is an absolute nightmare.
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Dont tell me you refer to doesitplay on Twitter who tested less than 20 Xbox games according to their own website. What can I say? They and you are wrong, because a Xbox developer actually confirmed native Series X games can be installed offline. Smart delivery disc's are different, but I wasn't talking about those in the sentence you choose to quote.
Post in thread 'So the Xbox Series X has one time DRM for disc based games? Even single player? [Answered at Threadmark]' https://www.resetera.com/threads/so...r-answered-at-threadmark.395149/post-60932641
I am not dismissing concerns. I am correcting false information. Native Series disc can be installed offline. that's a fact. It's also well-documented by engineers that 360 BC wouldn't have happened without games being recompiled. Which means 360 games need to be downloaded. Xbox One jaguar cores are abysmal and can't recompile at runtime while delivering great BC performance. So the question isn't what you or I would like under perfect circumstances, which would be no downloads needed at all and rather what's technically possible. Thus the decision is only about no 360 BC or 360 BC with downloads.
I noticed you don't know what the issues are for 360 BC, because you compared it to BC for consoles like PS4 on PS5 (both x86) and GC on Wii. 360 to Xbox One was PowerPC to x86. The technical differences and difficulties just can't be compared between the BC examples.
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So Halo Infinite is not an XSX game then? Forza Horizon 5 isn't an XSX game then? Microsoft Flight Simulator can't run on XB1 so it has to be an XSX game except nope you can't play that offline on disc.
Being able to install a game offline is not the same as being able to play a game offline from disc.
XSX discs can be installed offline but if the XSX disc doesn't have a full bootable and playable version of that game in the disc then it doesn't matter if it can install the disc offline. You dismiss doesitplay because you say they only tested 20 games. Did you even bother to see what games they tested. There are games that should work when installing them off disc according to you that actually don't because the complete game isn't on disc or it requires an online connection to actually start the game once it boots.
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To be fair you said
Which is not true, you can insert a disc offline and boot a playable game without needing to download content or licences to work on Xbox (especially on the One, but even so with Series X). The issue being that right now it's easy to pick up a disc where that's not the case on Series X.
I'm not arguing that you're wrong, I'm simply pointing out that blanket statements like "Xbox can't do this" when it can and does are part of the problem we have with people not understanding how it all works.
I mean I cover a lot of this in the OP. I'm in total agreement, the console should be able to be set up offline. I also think the config files for Xbox One discs played in BC mode on Series X should be available for offline install.
If you grabbed a Smart delivery disc well after the Series X's life time I'm pretty confident that there's just as much chance (if not more so) that it would contain Series X code and be be installable offline. I know that's not the case right now but we have to keep in mind that it's a matter of when, not if that happens.
Disc based games requiring a download to work is a multi-platform problem (looking at you Call of Duty!). Definitely more prevalent for Series X right now with some high profile titles published by Microsoft themselves.
I think there's definitely feedback that needs to be heard (ironically Sony & MLB needs to be part of the group that listens seeing as MLB 2021 requires a download on Xbox according to Does it Play) and in my opinion making sure the message is on-point will be key to being taken seriously.
Halo and Forza are smart delivery games. Flight Simulator is a good shout. But that doesn't make your blanket statement true that Xbox doesn't offer offline installs.
Thanks.
They can have both if the publisher chooses/is able to. A recent example is Demon Turf—you can install that game and play offline on both an Xbox One and Series X (I tested it myself).
If there is enough space on a 50GB BR, then nothing is stopping publishers. One S and One X already read 100GB BR, but unfortunately the base Xbox One only reads 50GB. The issue of Smart delivery games having to download would be much lessened, if they could use 100GB BR imo.
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Thanks for jumping in! Is it possible you can tell me a bit more how this disc works? Does it have different executables for both systems or is it a gen9 aware title that runs with Series enhancements when installed on that platform?
Has a native Series X build that is installed when running on a Series X and a native Xbox One build that installs on an Xbox One. Essentially behaves as a native disc on both platforms—smart delivery but offline from a disc (they both share achievement data, saves, etc).
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Brilliant, thank you. Can I be pedantic and confirm one last thing about the install process; I am understanding you correctly that on both Xbox One and Series X you can install from that one disc and successfully launch the game without ever being online during the entire process?
For digital games Sony has the EXACT SAME system except they call it your 'Primary" console instead of your "Home' console.
I hope people at least realize that.. I know this because I've been.. unable to play my SP games when PSN is down lol
There are a myriad of other weird "license scenarios" that are wonky on PS and unique to it to.
As far as digital games go.. this DRM is what enables game sharing for both Xbox and Playstation.. w/o it there's pretty much zero chance we'd get digital game sharing... I mean really w/o it there's not much of a chance publishers would support digital downloads at all.... as you could just download games to any number of friends machines and have them use your account "offline" to play them until they are done.
I don't really disk game so can't comment on that part, and my understanding is PS is better.. but I really feel like this thread is full of people unaware of the main issue here (digital downloads on non-home/primary console require license check) is the same.
Nice that on PS you can have a separate PS5 and PS4 set to primary, theoretically sharing a crossgen or PS4 game to three systems.
This has been a major pain in the ass for me and one of the main reasons why I sold my Series X. I was not able to play Game Pass- nor purchased, digital games offline despite having set my console to "home console"; it needed to be online for that every time. Just annoying.
I tested this days ago. Worked for me. Perhaps you were a victim (for the lack of a better word) of the bug or something else was the problem. Normally it should've worked.
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Top notch, thank you! I'll review the original post later and see which areas might need a correction.Correct.
(Xbox One pic, didn't take one when testing on Series X)
How long ago was this and did you install the games before or after you set the console to home? I tested this myself the other day and I was able to successfully play Game Pass titles offline. If you can recall which titles didn't work for you I'm happy to go back and test them again.
No problem, from my anecdotal testing more games are doing this (when size allows) compared to ~6 months ago. Mostly just the handful of AAA releases now that require the internet to get the Series X build.
On PS, if your system is primary there will not be an online check in for digital games. Since swapping primary systems requires an internet connection, there really is not a need to constantly check the legitimacy of the license. There is a deactivate all systems option in their accounts websute, but that can only be used once every 6-12 months to prevent gaming the system.
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Could you confirm what the front of your box looks like? Just looked for a copy I could pick up in the UK and they all say smart delivery on them (top right) but only list Series X in the black bar. Weirdly I did see a copy on eBay that had Xbox One and Series X listed in that area.
So I'm not sure if this is just online shops using promo images (entirely possible because it's the same images everywhere I looked) or there's differences in the discs available in different markets.
I appreciate your response, but I´m done with Microsoft`s service and Xbox for now. This was three, four months ago and by far not the only issue with the console/network/service: It wouldn`t download the Dying Light 2 Series X-upgrade after I had installed the disc, so I was stuck with the Xbox One-version (had to manually download the upgrade by triggering it through the smart phone app), I had to redownload Gears 5 twice because it somehow ended up as a stuttering mass and stuff like that. Made my Series X experience pretty unpleasant which is a shame because I had no issues with my One X.
That was just the promo image for retail being incorrect. The actual game has both consoles listed.
Wouldn't that be four systems? Two PS4s, two PS5s?
Wouldn't there need to be a check when moving games stored on an external drive from one system to another?
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Thanks! I've updated the Smart Delivery section of the post. I've flagged up the two generations being supported by one disc as pending validation and I'll be doing that myself over the weekend.
There's no offence meant so I hope none is taken, I just think it's important that everything is validated by multiple parties, including my own work 👍🏻
Well three separate users can play a crossplay or PS4 game, because one of those PS5s and PS4s will not be primary so you would need the original account.
Yes, but that would be part of moving primary or you would have to be online for a non-primary system anyway.