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nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Sorry sir, But they openly said there won't be any in this game and now they have added them. People were crucifying Forza 7 when that game didn't had any real money transaction in first place. So ppl will let it pass now ?

It's a different situation since Forza 7 was initially designed from the ground up around loot boxes and microtransactions. Eg progression, rewards and other things that were previously simply bonus linked settings or fixed in nature, were redesigned to be luck based modifiers and more grindy in nature to further promote the sale of microtransactions and loot boxes (something that fortunately never came to fruition). They were only changed or omitted because of the outcry.

GT Sport is different because the game has not been and never was designed from the ground up in this way, nor is this MTX inclusion going to change the way progression, rewards etc currently work. There have also been no MTX for a year, and there have been more content updates and tweaks than were ever promised too, so there's good and bad, but it's obviously still mostly good.

Ultimately, I don't think any other racer or GaaS game in history has had the kind of free post game support that GTS has had, which is why the majority of people who actually own the game in this thread aren't too bothered by this announcement. Continued content support is the more important consideration, and it's probable Polyphony never foresaw supporting the game in the way they have this long after release, hence the change of plan.
 

benzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,261
Its not about the implementation. Its not about how it change a game. Its not about how it will generate money or the free content.

Its about the lie where they said they are not adding something and then adding it later.

It is about the implementation, it is about how it affects the game, because a bunch of uproar and users in here are wholly anti-anything MTX and how this is just the beginning of trying to ease you into a full blown GT game designed around getting you to pay microtransactions. Not even taking into consideration how the MTX affects the game, how it's implemented, and why its used for the developer to change their mind and go towards this route is narrow-minded as fuck.

Outraging on Kaz's initial statement would require you to assume he deliberately lied about microtransactions to trick and take advantage of you, which is really reaching it, especially when you look at how the MTX is implemented. Why was the DLC support not initially made known that they will be free? maybe they were still figuring out what to do with DLC support, either free or paid, and had written off MTX back then. Software development and business decisions on something that's still ongoing such as a GaaS game isn't always be a simple one and done deal.

If people even read the patch notes, there's clearly some indications here that they don't want to charge for future DLC and alienate the fan base on content. Their MTX implementation is a source of revenue that could take place of paid DLC, which apparently doens't matter because omg he lied!
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
Ultimately, I don't think any other racer or GaaS game in history has had the kind of free post game support that GTS has had, which is why the majority of people who actually own the game in this thread aren't too bothered by this announcement. Continued content support is the more important consideration, and it's probable Polyphony never foresaw supporting the game in the way they have this long after release, hence the change of plan.
And it is stated in this thread why this also had to happen to the game. Again, this was not because of generosity but due to lack of content which was criticized publicly, both in media reviews, as well as user reviews.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
And it is stated in this thread why this also had to happen to the game. Again, this was not because of generosity but due to lack of content which was criticized publicly, both in media reviews, as well as user reviews.

I'm glad you at least agree that the support has been excellent.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
MTX are not great, but I think the bait and switch is the really brutal part.

Yikes. Why ever believe anything they say?
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
I'm glad you at least agree that the support has been excellent.
Oh, it has been! But when you start low, it's easier to improve on that, of course.
But also to illustrate again what this unmatched excellent support that is iterated here many times actually meant so far without the current patch:
gtsportdlc.jpeg
 

Roy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,471
Well the mistake they made here that they announce that it will never have microtransaction yet they decide to add it one year later.

However, having this doesn't affect the game play at all nor the current prices of the car are affected by this update I see it's harmless feature. If you don't want to use microtransactions then don't as simple as that.

I'm not saying here that microtransactions are ok in games. Yet there are some games that abused microtransaction system such as SW2 and here in GT it's not the case.
The prices of cars are legacy from GT5&6, which did have microtransactions. PD isn't stupid and isn't playing the short game.
 

GestaltGaz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,996
I think this is a storm in a teacup situation here. Yes they lied technically, so what? The end result is the same as before, cars cost the same, progression is the same, there is no change to the economy in game. So now people can take a shortcut and pay for the cars they want. Doesn't affect anybody who bought the game so far.

If cars/tracks were locked behind paywalls then complain away.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
General thoughts/ramblings:

Given how hostile Era historically has been regarding MTX in general, I'm surprised at the accepting reaction to this.

I do think GT and PD have an image issue right now, and I'm not sure this will help. I'm dissapointed that there hasnt been a proper "Big Third" AAA racing franchise or studio this gen. Bless The Crew for trying, but, well, try is the key word I suppose.

I really disliked the time I spent with Driveclub but whew I would prefer that now to the handling of GT Sport
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
But Shawn Layden said that they don't do MTX few months ago after criticizing EA. I guess that it meant nothing.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Oh, it has been! But when you start low, it's easier to improve on that, of course.
But also to illustrate again what this unmatched excellent support that is iterated here many times actually meant so far without the current patch:
gtsportdlc.jpeg

This reminds me so much of Street Fighter V; That gaas premature release symdrome. So much bad word of mouth could be avoided if they would just wait and release the game when it's a little more ripe on the vine.

But apparently... it's far too attractive to release the very second that it's saleable.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
This reminds me so much of Street Fighter V; That gaas premature release symdrome. So much bad word of mouth could be avoided if they would just wait and release the game when it's a little more ripe on the vine.

But apparently... it's far too attractive to release the very second that it's saleable.
Oh, definitely! No matter how you put it, $60 with such content was too much to ask. Sure, the game will be different in 1 year or in 2 years but that doesn't change the fact that people who buy at launch for full price expect a "full" game. Of course we can argue that people also should inform themselves before they buy something but also we know most people don't (and of course publishers know that).
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,642
If cars/tracks were locked behind paywalls then complain away.

Ironically if they had charged for the cars and track, if it was $15 for May and July DLC, no one would've complained because it was expected. The thread wouldn't even stay on first page for very long because it would be way less sensational that hurr durr they lied.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
An online GT game offering an online mode only doesn't mean it's not a full game, it's as full as Overwatch which launched with embarrassing content, or CoD which is currently removing SP campaign.
But Shawn Layden said that they don't do MTX few months ago after criticizing EA. I guess that it meant nothing.
Are you sure he said that? He said that they don't tell their studios to make them of those Gaas games, they give freedom to what they any to work on.
 

Grazzt

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,540
Brisbane, Australia
I'm surprised that people are defending this, especially after they claimed that no MTX would be added. A lie is a lie.

Also pretty entertaining thread, especially the first few pages.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
An online GT game offering an online mode only doesn't mean it's not a full game, it's as full as Overwatch which launched with embarrassing content, or CoD which is currently removing SP campaign.

Are you sure he said that? He said that they don't tell their studios to make them of those Gaas games, they give freedom to what they any to work on.

You're right that it was GAAS. Still, I think my point makes sense considering that Sony members said in the past things about MTX not on their games.
 

riverfr0zen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,165
Manhattan, New York
This reminds me so much of Street Fighter V; That gaas premature release symdrome. So much bad word of mouth could be avoided if they would just wait and release the game when it's a little more ripe on the vine.

That's an interesting comparison. I'm totally done with SFV, and it definitely has to do (to large extent) with the way characters are gated. But don't feel the same way with GTS. Somehow the fact that cars need to be purchased from grinding doesn't grate as much in GTS as it does with SFV. Maybe it also has something to do with being tired of fighting games in general, but I also think there are differences in implementation between the two that have GTS come off without suffering as much.
 

GestaltGaz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,996
General thoughts/ramblings:

Given how hostile Era historically has been regarding MTX in general, I'm surprised at the accepting reaction to this.

I do think GT and PD have an image issue right now, and I'm not sure this will help. I'm dissapointed that there hasnt been a proper "Big Third" AAA racing franchise or studio this gen. Bless The Crew for trying, but, well, try is the key word I suppose.

I really disliked the time I spent with Driveclub but whew I would prefer that now to the handling of GT Sport

I think most people have a problem with predatory practices not so much mtx in general. Things like pay to win items that give an advantage in multiplayer games, unfair economies that make items impossible to grind for, loot box gambling for hard to get items etc.

Standard mtx for cosmetic items that have no effect on gameplay, items you can buy straight up if you don't want to put in a reasonable amount of time don't bother me or most I would think imho.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,775
I'm surprised that people are defending this, especially after they claimed that no MTX would be added. A lie is a lie.

Also pretty entertaining thread, especially the first few pages.

adding mtx to a beloved game after launch does this. If it had mtx from the start, maybe people would be less accepting.. but at this point, who's gonna turn around on a game they like so much?
Fwiw, I don't really have a problem with the mtx in GT Sport, or Forza, or AssCreed or, well, in almost any game ever. I think its a scummy move and reading some of the defenses "its actually a good thing!" definitely made me eyes roll, but ultimately, the game is unchanged, so whatever.
 

Remo Williams

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 13, 2018
4,769
I'm surprised that people are defending this, especially after they claimed that no MTX would be added. A lie is a lie.

I'm not surprised, it's basic human nature, and the double standards are now plain for everyone to see. But there doesn't seem to be anything egregious about the way that PD are handling microtransactions, although misleading potential customers, and going against their word about such an important feature is still a serious issue that should not be swept under a rug. I just hope that people have learned something from this, and that they keep their pitchforks at bay the next time a game is announced as having microtransactions, because their existence alone is not a reason to be upset. I doubt it, but I still have some hope.
 

RounD

Member
Oct 29, 2017
260
It sets a precedent to them lying. First its just microtransaction. Who know maybe next time they might promise the sky and don't deliver.

I'm going to take a guess you dont play GT games. Kaz has promised multiple things before that never really developed. Precedent to them lying... lol
 

Coxy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,187
Yep very wrong and sad to see

Hope we get a proper entry back in the series soon
 

watdaeff4

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,451
I'm not reading through 16 pages. ESP considering some of the posts so forgive me if this was discussed:

From my understanding people are saying the economy hasn't changed because cars cost the same.

Has it been confirmed/tested/discussed though if the patch affected how much (ie per race/challenge/etc) money you earn by playing?
 
Oct 26, 2017
633
Essex
Disgusting seeing all the Sony shilling this site allows.
EDIT: Also this thread is a great example of how Sony conditioned their fanboys to accept every shitty thing they pull off.

I mean it's hardly the worst thing in the world. They've explained it, they've not changed the game economy or made available the top end cars. Nothing is locked away it's just like buying credits tbh. Yeah they said it wouldn't happen, but it has. Don't use it and move on?
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
I think its a scummy move and reading some of the defenses "its actually a good thing!" definitely made me eyes roll, but ultimately, the game is unchanged, so whatever.
I mean, the people that already play hundreds of hours don't see a problem because they have enough ingame credits anyway. The fact that they now welcome this change because casuals now spend more money on the game so the people who welcome the change get more support down the line while knowing that the people spending money probably are not the same audience (or at least the majority of them) is quite egoistic but at least I can comprehend their thoughts on it.
 
Last edited:

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
It is about the implementation, it is about how it affects the game, because a bunch of uproar and users in here are wholly anti-anything MTX and how this is just the beginning of trying to ease you into a full blown GT game designed around getting you to pay microtransactions. Not even taking into consideration how the MTX affects the game, how it's implemented, and why its used for the developer to change their mind and go towards this route is narrow-minded as fuck.

Outraging on Kaz's initial statement would require you to assume he deliberately lied about microtransactions to trick and take advantage of you, which is really reaching it, especially when you look at how the MTX is implemented. Why was the DLC support not initially made known that they will be free? maybe they were still figuring out what to do with DLC support, either free or paid, and had written off MTX back then. Software development and business decisions on something that's still ongoing such as a GaaS game isn't always be a simple one and done deal.

If people even read the patch notes, there's clearly some indications here that they don't want to charge for future DLC and alienate the fan base on content. Their MTX implementation is a source of revenue that could take place of paid DLC, which apparently doens't matter because omg he lied!

Nope, it isn't. Kaz said a blanket 'no' to all form of micro transaction. They didn't give a vague 'we can't confirm anything yet', 'no announcement to make at the moment', 'its too early to say' or any of that kind. Lying is lying.
 
Oct 26, 2017
633
Essex
I mean, the people that already play hundreds of hours don't see a problem because they have enough ingame credits anyway. The fact that they now welcome this change because casuals now spend more money on the game so the people who welcome the change get more support down the line while knowing that the people spending money probably are not the same hardware (or at least the majority of them) is quite egoistic but at least I can comprehend their thoughts on it.

Strangely I feel it would have made more sense to allow purchasing of the higher valued cars that actually take longer to earn (it's not a case of most expensive is the fastest, so wouldn't be game breaking either) that's where the time would have been saved for people, but then that limits the amount of cars they can possibly sell to about 6-7 per person compared to all the lower priced cars.

Nope, it isn't. Kaz said a blanket 'no' to all form of micro transaction. They didn't give a vague 'we can't confirm anything yet', 'no announcement to make at the moment', 'its too early to say' or any of that kind. Lying is lying.

Or it was just a change of plan, who knows, maybe at the time it wasn't a lie and it wouldn't. Maybe 1 month after that interview the roadmap for the game changed and would include it. Who knows.
 

g-m1n1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,408
Luxembourg
No advantage or exclusive content? No problem.


Don't own GTS, but R6S has a lot of mtx and it's a non-issue, it is just cosmetics or winning some time.


If those mtx mean more content in the future for everybody, it's a win-win situation
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,362
No advantage or exclusive content? No problem.


Don't own GTS, but R6S has a lot of mtx and it's a non-issue, it is just cosmetics or winning some time.


If those mtx mean more content in the future for everybody, it's a win-win situation

Definitely. Absolutely no problem with the chosen implementation of mtx here. It's unobtrusive and fair.

But I do think, what OP was actually posting about, a first party flagship studio saying that they definitively won't have any mtx and then patching them in a few months later, is an interesting and noteworthy discussion point. I think contributing to the thread with 'but the mtx are fine, what's the outrage guys??' (not calling you out specifically guy im replying to) is pointless because it's nothing to do with OPs post.
 

Gerwant

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,042
If I had to choose: new cars added for free with option to buy them with real money vs paid car packs, the choice is easy.
 

GeekyDad

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,689
USA
Sure santa is not real. But it does not mean gamer should sit down and get beaten up by devs anyway they like right? Remember Battlefront 2 fiasco? Gamer fight back thats why there is change.

Couldn't agree with you more. I was merely responding with surprise that someone is afraid this would be a future trend. If it's always been that way, it can't become a trend.
 

GTVision

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,068
Or it was just a change of plan, who knows, maybe at the time it wasn't a lie and it wouldn't. Maybe 1 month after that interview the roadmap for the game changed and would include it. Who knows.
I totally agree. People are so hung up on the word 'lying'. Since the game is almost a year out, maybe their plans just changed. And maybe not, who knows.
Besides, it's not like it's effecting the game structure (at least for now). The grind stays the same, plus you can only buy the cars that could be acquired pretty easily anyway (2 million credits or less).

Microtransactions are here to stay, especially since the cost of development is going up every year, but the price of games is still capped around 60 dollars/euro's.
I hate microtransations as much as the next guy, but at least this way it's not interfering with the game structure (again, at least for now).
If you just ignore this option by turning it off, the game experience is literally exactly the same as it was before the inclusion of microtransactions.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,024
UK
I mean it's hardly the worst thing in the world. They've explained it, they've not changed the game economy or made available the top end cars. Nothing is locked away it's just like buying credits tbh. Yeah they said it wouldn't happen, but it has. Don't use it and move on?

This is pretty much all anyone can do

I mean, I think a lot less of the developer now and will pretty much take anything they say in future with a grain of salt, but there isn't much else you can do

If they do start to increase the grind or change the stats or drop rates or do anything else shitty then we can rightly criticise that, but even if they came out and said they won't do that, they have proven that they have no issue with saying one thing and doing the opposite of it anyway
 

Jsee80

Member
Nov 18, 2017
161
Nobody told me I would still be getting new tracks and cars in July 2018 for free.

I thought they had a road map for free content till March or something.
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
The text in the OP pretty clear says it won't FEATURE mtx. That doesn't necessarily mean there wouldn't be any. Just that it isn't a highlight, or featured prominently in the game.

Is anybody buying this? Cuz seriously I got nothing.
 

Apex88

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,428
If I had to choose: new cars added for free with option to buy them with real money vs paid car packs, the choice is easy.
The irony is PD could have to stuck to their pre-launch word and still charged £10 per pack or £40 for a season pass. That's what we've had so far - a season pass worth of free content - with another year to come.

Whether it be Assetto Corsa, Project Cars or Driveclub. Each driving title this gen has cost me at least £75-£80 for the complete package. GT Sport continues to be by far the highest quality, best quality, package so far.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,081
I hate this in all games though.

It's like in say a fighter having all the characters unlocked vs having to unlock them. Just give me the fighters since I paid 60 bones and let me have fun.

Don't wall off content just cause I can't play as much due to my adult responsibilities.

That's an argument against all unlockables, and I don't agree at all that that should be the case. They were already in the game and could be bought using in-game currency for people who were skilled enough to earn it.
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
Strangely I feel it would have made more sense to allow purchasing of the higher valued cars that actually take longer to earn (it's not a case of most expensive is the fastest, so wouldn't be game breaking either) that's where the time would have been saved for people, but then that limits the amount of cars they can possibly sell to about 6-7 per person compared to all the lower priced cars.



Or it was just a change of plan, who knows, maybe at the time it wasn't a lie and it wouldn't. Maybe 1 month after that interview the roadmap for the game changed and would include it. Who knows.

A change of plan doesn't make it not a lie though.
 

LuckyLinus

Member
Jun 1, 2018
1,936
You cant say your not going to have microtransactions and then change your mind no matter how well implemented it is.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,642
Nobody told me I would still be getting new tracks and cars in July 2018 for free.

I thought they had a road map for free content till March or something.

They probably didn't expect an influx of 200k new players every month and 40k constant daily players six months out. Might have changed the plan to not split that community. If the track was locked behind DLC it would probably never show up in Sports mode.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
If they changed their mind they should have released a statement explaining why

If you say something and then do the opposite, then yeah, you lied

Isn't there a blog post about it.

I will say I have a different understanding of lying though than most in this thread though.

I always understood it to mean knowingly not telling the truth.

But either way people being upset about a company changing their plans or lying is justified. Whether it matters in the grand scheme of things is a different debate.

Don't buy all these slippery slope arguments though since there are laws against false advertising.
 

degauss

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,631
Micro-transactions is such a broad topic. Maybe 15 years ago I don't think it was even a word. Now it covers everything from pay-to-win mobile gaming bullshit to genuine expansion packs and 100 things in between.

"we got you, you said you wouldn't have micro-transactions but now you have an option for players who might not have the time to skip grinding and short-cut-purchase certain cars they like/want, Got you on a technicality fuckers, now you must be publicly shamed for lying"

Even though it's something which in no way affects the game content and progression for people who don't pay, and this is after releasing loads of free content over the year, from a company which are about as far from piece-mealing and ripping off the consumer as it's possible to be. Don't be such pedants.

And on top of that, I really hope they turn GT Sport into an ongoing platform. I'm all for the continuation of the (so far amazing) content they keep adding for free. But if in a year or two's time, they have GT Sport "Next", and you have to buy it as DLC for GT Sport instead of it being a whole new title, that would actually be preferable to me. But technically, following this threads logic they should be shouted down for being liars if this happens!
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
If they changed their mind they should have released a statement explaining why

If you say something and then do the opposite, then yeah, you lied
Welcome to the wonderful explanation why:
While there are many car enthusiasts young and old among Gran Turismo's players, there are many who don't have enough time to play and save the in-game credits needed to acquire their favorite cars. By making cars immediately available to purchase as DLC, we hope to make it so that players busy with work (or those who've just entered the world of GT) can acquire attractive and competitive cars quickly, and take their position on the starting grid.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,508
Bandung Indonesia
Couldn't agree with you more. I was merely responding with surprise that someone is afraid this would be a future trend. If it's always been that way, it can't become a trend.

Eh, devs that flat out contradicted their statement, with clear, unquestionable, and objective proof out in the open are rare, I think. I can only think of No Man's Sky and Alien Colonial Marines aside from this.