-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Destiny 2: Curse of Osiris |OT| Guaranteed Lighthouse Run, $19.99
- Thread starter JohnOfMars
- Start date
that's because the dead orbit armor is exactly the EDZ set?
John please, why can't you be more ridiculous and irrational about this game I love! /s
And people still wonder why Bungie doesn't like to have open communication with our community.
OT - I like Faction Rally more without cheese. I got the full NM Titan set and Warlock FWC set plus ornaments pretty quickly.
Having been staunchly anti sidearm since D1 I have finally found one I like and can be effective with: Traveller's Judgement from the Lost Prophecy line of quests. I'm finding that short range, high burst dps weapons are really effective these days with the way maps are laid out and the way enemy encounters work. Traveller's Judgement, with the caveat that it fills a lot better to hip fire than to ADS, fits right in to that short range, high burst dps type of game play.
Last night I was running my MW Scathelocke in the primary, Traveller's Judgement (arc) for a secondary and Perfect Paradox or Merciless for my power weapon while I did the faction stuff on Titan. It worked well and was quite fun.
Last night I was running my MW Scathelocke in the primary, Traveller's Judgement (arc) for a secondary and Perfect Paradox or Merciless for my power weapon while I did the faction stuff on Titan. It worked well and was quite fun.
OP
OP
Heaven forbid that people like the game. (For the record, I actually have criticized the game, and recently, but whatever lets you score points off me, my dude. :D )
Btw, if you think the game is in such sorry shape, then workers will always be more terrified than management. And telling Bungie that they need to be begging forgiveness and absolutely terrified isn't some surgical message that only management will hear, but one that everyone who works on the game will feel. Who do you think reads ResetEra? Jason Jones? Activision CEOs? Nope.
I get it's not the game a lot of people hoped or wanted it to be. And that they want it to improve, but it's a $60 game with a $20 expansion. Did you not get your money's worth? Did you not get 100s of hours of playtime?
I like it without the cheese, but I think it shows the limits of the token system. Without a wide loot pool it becomes very frustrating to get the same grenade launcher over and over again. I hope this improves going forward.
Btw, if you think the game is in such sorry shape, then workers will always be more terrified than management. And telling Bungie that they need to be begging forgiveness and absolutely terrified isn't some surgical message that only management will hear, but one that everyone who works on the game will feel. Who do you think reads ResetEra? Jason Jones? Activision CEOs? Nope.
I get it's not the game a lot of people hoped or wanted it to be. And that they want it to improve, but it's a $60 game with a $20 expansion. Did you not get your money's worth? Did you not get 100s of hours of playtime?
I like it without the cheese, but I think it shows the limits of the token system. Without a wide loot pool it becomes very frustrating to get the same grenade launcher over and over again. I hope this improves going forward.
Please don't be passive aggressive.
So people can't vent frustration or maybe suggest desirable outcomes? I'm supposed to keep my mouth shut just because some people might not like what I have to say? Too bad. I agree that insulting one another or Bungie won't solve anything, but I'm going to be honest with myself and speak my mind whether others like it or not.
I like the game's core loop and lore. I love the potential. But that potential needs to be realized at some point. It can't be just all talk. That's what's frustrating. They can do better. The game deserves better.
Yes I've gotten a lot of play time out of the game. But imagine how much more it would get if it were in a better state. Imagine how much more money they'd make and satisfied players they'd have, singing their praises if they just got it right.
I haven't clocked any serious time in Destiny 2 in almost a month. I've been playing other games. But I miss playing Destiny 2. I miss playing with my friends. I miss creating new memories. I want to be able to log in, see a shit load of people on, and have so much to do. But for a while, when I log in, I'm just reminded how grim things are. I don't want to be pissed off, or argue with you or anyone else. I want to talk about how great the game is. But unfortunately, we can't. There's a lot that needs to be fixed, that honestly shouldn't be in the state that it's in.
So if I'm bitter and angry, it's because I'm tired of being promised and sold potential. I'm tired of being told, maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe next year. This game has so much going for it and it's a shame how it's managed. I'm not mad at you and shouldn't take my anger out on you or anyone here. I just want the game I put so much time in to be what it should be.
I shouldn't be cruel but I don't have to be nice. Sorry if I was an asshole. I just like to keep it real, however that may be.
A reminder: if someone('s opinion) is just too abrasive for your taste, you can add them to your Ignore List.
I feel like there's a lot of assumptions about emotional state of employees and also of a company in this post. No one wants to show up to work "terrified and shitting themselves" and if that just means the bungie weekly update should just turn into something that gives players that impression every week, why bother?
We've been down this road before with destiny 1 vanilla in a different way - a game that turned off many, many people on day 2 or week 1 of buying (d1 and d2 have different problems but both are seeing a big internet backlash). There were no easy fixes and the game wasn't "fixed" in the eyes of reviewers until TTK. no need to look "terrified and shitting" just to keep working and improving things.
The game does need some big changes in my mind, mainly to shake up PvE reward structure and to shake up the entire flow of PvP. Neither of those changes are going to be coming fast and be good. If someone isn't happy with the state of the game right now to the point where it's not fun... better to stop playing and check back around dlc2 or dlc3 I think. That's what I did for d1 vanilla, dropped it until dlc1 (TDB) fixed what were the most pressing issues with the game for me.
Edit: also if this is just written in reference to the sandbox update... yeah they could have just skipped it if all they have to say at this point is that paragraph of nothing.
16 years on message boards, over 5 years on GAF, never had to do that. I already know I'm going to disagree with people. No reason to put yourself in a bubble and plug your ears. If someone can't deal with an alternative thought, they have no business being on the internet. I'm not a badass. I ain't scary. No one here or anyone is.
I've never been afraid of engaging opposition. I never intend to start shit or offend anyone intentionally either. I'll say what I have to say though. That's the point of a discussion. Ultimately, it makes everyone better people.
Again, I'm not talking about some random texture artist or sound designer. I'm not blaming them or angry at them. They're people doing their jobs and the best they can.
But when it comes to decision makers and people with influence and power, I want to know that they're serious. I mean REALLY serious. I want to hear, straight up, "We fucked up". Own up to it. Take responsibility. Then, I want to see noticeable progress. That's it. It takes time. But nine months? I don't know.
They're not the rag tag group of nerds in some shitty apartment in Chicago that they used to be. They're not some cute little indie dev. They're a huge ass studio, with HUNDREDS of very smart, very talented, very capable people, backed by a mega corporation and a ludicrous amount of money. So yeah, I'm going to expect and demand big things.
Oh geez...
Their dialogue wasn't bad. It's just that Ghaul didn't do anything else. Sat on his ass and talked. Nothing about him convinced me he was this ruthless tyrant. I wanted to see his cruelty, to see him do evil shit.
Trust me, I was there on GAF.
(Not sure if the name is familiar but I used to post as 'soultron' on GAF.)
I wasn't aiming the comment at you in particular, just making a general comment because a few people have come in asking for separate OTs free from complaints, some posters have actually insulted others outright, and so on. Just wanted to remind folks that the Ignore List is an option is all.
So you basically want to see like what, Luke Smith or the bungie CEO in the weekly update saying that stuff? Yeah I doubt that's going to happen honestly. Just like we never got anything like that for D1 (And D1 was certainly far, far oversold in prerelease trailers/vidocs/interviews. D2 they didn't really do any of that except faking the PvP trailer to have a low TTK. We got what they said we would get and what we saw in the beta gameplay, people just aren't happy with it in the end).
Ultimately doing that is just not going to be helpful to the game so I personally don't care about it. Updates are what actually matter to me.
9 months? Well if you need absolutely everything in that "fall 2018 (or sooner)" list than I guess yes you're gonna have to wait 9 months. They've already promised quite a few things for February or spring updates. Presumably some of those items on the fall list may show up sooner as well, like it said on the list.
Considering the game was successful and reviewed and sold well I'm not sure they could go back to Activision and have the rumored fall 2018 expansion canceled to free up more people to work on updates sooner, or if that would even significantly speed up things. As long as Activision expects the next yearly installment isn't gonna run the franchise into the ground I doubt they'd be amenable to change.
LINK: Josh Hamrick's sandbox update uncut - full transcript
Plus side of the TWAB format: conditions players to look forward to a weekly update.
Downside of the TWAB format: you gotta push one out even if you have nothing to say!
It's satire! Don't get too salty!
Downside of the TWAB format: you gotta push one out even if you have nothing to say!
Oh shit!
Always had a lot of respect for you. You're far more patient than me. You're a good dude. Always pleasant and polite. Good to see you here.
Yeah. I know it's wishful thinking. But what really matters is getting the game back on track. Knowing specifics and having clear dates. I even said a while back that significant and radical changes aren't coming until much further down the road. I'm fully aware of that. Yet, I just want that impression they'll really make good. Not just a, "Yeah yeah. Sure sure. We got it..."
I'm with PXG. Bungie is too complacent with how they are handling this. "we told y'all something, so we're good here" is not how they should be acting for a company getting so much negativity. Instead or being reactive, how about they beat us to the punch and tell us what's going on? Tell us when, what, and how. Have some urgency. How many media outlets need to cover your fuck ups and ask for you to do more than say "we're listening" before you change?
As a company they should be terrified. The MTX whales were streamers, who have moved on. The people who drive your community by being excellent at your game and hyping it up have moved on. And they didn't move on happily. Is that not a cause for concern? I'm not sure how or why anyone would defend a "they'll be back" mentality. It's a terrible attitude to have period but an even worse one to have given Bungie's current position.
As a company they should be terrified. The MTX whales were streamers, who have moved on. The people who drive your community by being excellent at your game and hyping it up have moved on. And they didn't move on happily. Is that not a cause for concern? I'm not sure how or why anyone would defend a "they'll be back" mentality. It's a terrible attitude to have period but an even worse one to have given Bungie's current position.
While reading TWAB, I found my self thinking that what if they had a TMAB? A monthly blog about everything that is happening at Bungie. Rather than doing it on a weekly basis. To me, this week's issue read to me as "Remember what we talked about last week? We are working on it." Which is nice but it just reads as "hey read last weeks article again".
I'm not saying that they only do a monthly update to fans. Because that is the opposite of what fans are asking for. I'm thinking that on a weekly basis, they have a specific topic that they dive into. Providing a deeper analysis of a certain topic each week. And at the end of the month, maybe providing an update on each topic. It was just a thought.
I'm not saying that they only do a monthly update to fans. Because that is the opposite of what fans are asking for. I'm thinking that on a weekly basis, they have a specific topic that they dive into. Providing a deeper analysis of a certain topic each week. And at the end of the month, maybe providing an update on each topic. It was just a thought.
OP
OP
I gotchu fam:
Trolling aside, you have the current game director Chris Barrett is writing dev updates and tweeting out actively about the game. This is a big change from D1, which was almost entirely DeeJ.
Not sure where you're getting this 9 months business. Here's what's in the Dev Update and the Weekly Update:
- January 30 Update
- February Update
- Revamped Crimson Days based on Dawning Feedback
- Spring Update
- Season 3 Update
- Expansion 2 will surely also have tons of updates
The easiest way for a developer to get burned is by announcing or showing something that doesn't make it to the final cut of a game. League of Legends' Magma Chamber was an infamous example of this. More recently, there's the entirety of No Man's Sky.
My guess is that the stuff they're working on isn't at a point where they can provide concrete details yet. Bungie's in a weird spot where they need to reassure players that they're doing something, but can't risk overpromising. Hence, the vagueness.
TWAB, BWU, all of these weekly updates have been nothing but trouble for the company all the way back to the Halo days. We've had multiple iterations of promising greater effort in communication, follow-through, then slow reversion towards saying nothing again. I think it's time for them call it. Take a page from the Blizzard OW team and only update when they feel they have something substantial to say
Long story short.
Bungle is a massive entity.
Big organisations move very slowly.
When you factor in the crappy tools it's going to be a long year for us and them.
Massive but not spread thin. Their focus is on one product. destiny. That's all. Which means they should have more to say than "we're working on it". Where are dev interviews and ViDocs? You can't speak on what you're still designing? Cool. How about you speak about what you've done. Art team, sound team....oh wait...Bungie isn't built like that.
Explaining their struggles visually while showing us their amazing work...I'd like to say that would help the community empathize, which is what many of us lack this time around.
OP
OP
But that's not one product. You've got:
- the Live game (updates, Seasons, Events)
- Expansion 2
- the Fall expansion & Live Events
- Whatever is coming next (more small expansions? more events)
- Destiny 3 (or whatever long term is next for Destiny. D2 started right as D1 shipped and really kicked into high gear as Taken King shipped.)
- Destiny 1 maintenance
But they literally already have. Literally last week.
People have the shortest memories.
Let's be REAL guys. This is serious business. The most serious of businesses. There's a vidya game out there with stuff I don't like.
Did you hear me? There's stuff I don't like. Now I don't know about you but if I worked at Bungie I'd be shaking in my boots. *Terror*, is what I'd be feeling.
/edge
I think Destiny 2 is a fundamentally flawed game with a design core which I dislike on a level that updates and QoL patches won't ever fix. I don't like double primaries, I don't like the slow TTK, I don't like the bloom, I don't like the clunky terrible weapon handling, I don't like how slow scoping down sights is, I don't like the delay in recovering radar coming out of sights, I don't like juggling my inventory/postmaster/vault every single time I open a package because the mod page is stupid, I don't like how much slower movement feels. Destiny 2 is, for me, a major downgrade from D1 in every way that counts (how fun it feels to move around and shoot).
It's a major upgrade in terms of stuff I care little about. Graphics are better, the campaign is way better, social areas and patrols are much better, the grind is more forgiving, there's much better clan integration, the Trials reward scheme is very well thought out etc. But at the end of the day none of this matter, to me, at all if the core gameplay (moving and shooting) feels worse than it used to. And it does.
So I did something that I never had to with D1 - I moved on. Simple as that :) haven't played for weeks, can't imagine I'll play in the weeks to come either. Was I robbed? Hells to the no. I absolutely got my US$60, I put in some good hours at launch.
I'm the last guy you could pin the "Bungie shill/apologist" thing because I've consistently aired my opinion that the game peaked in 2015 pre-TTK and has consistently gone down ever since. But honestly some people here, on Reddit or Bungie forums act like they're personally, emotionally affected by things like a gun bugging out of an event's loot pool.
Like, I'm not surprised at a "this sucks" attitude because that's how I feel about Destiny 2 in general. But the whole asking for people to be fired, or expecting them to be terrified, or being generally outraged at something as common, standard, and unimportant as a game not meeting your expectations seems odd to me.
Did you hear me? There's stuff I don't like. Now I don't know about you but if I worked at Bungie I'd be shaking in my boots. *Terror*, is what I'd be feeling.
/edge
I think Destiny 2 is a fundamentally flawed game with a design core which I dislike on a level that updates and QoL patches won't ever fix. I don't like double primaries, I don't like the slow TTK, I don't like the bloom, I don't like the clunky terrible weapon handling, I don't like how slow scoping down sights is, I don't like the delay in recovering radar coming out of sights, I don't like juggling my inventory/postmaster/vault every single time I open a package because the mod page is stupid, I don't like how much slower movement feels. Destiny 2 is, for me, a major downgrade from D1 in every way that counts (how fun it feels to move around and shoot).
It's a major upgrade in terms of stuff I care little about. Graphics are better, the campaign is way better, social areas and patrols are much better, the grind is more forgiving, there's much better clan integration, the Trials reward scheme is very well thought out etc. But at the end of the day none of this matter, to me, at all if the core gameplay (moving and shooting) feels worse than it used to. And it does.
So I did something that I never had to with D1 - I moved on. Simple as that :) haven't played for weeks, can't imagine I'll play in the weeks to come either. Was I robbed? Hells to the no. I absolutely got my US$60, I put in some good hours at launch.
I'm the last guy you could pin the "Bungie shill/apologist" thing because I've consistently aired my opinion that the game peaked in 2015 pre-TTK and has consistently gone down ever since. But honestly some people here, on Reddit or Bungie forums act like they're personally, emotionally affected by things like a gun bugging out of an event's loot pool.
Like, I'm not surprised at a "this sucks" attitude because that's how I feel about Destiny 2 in general. But the whole asking for people to be fired, or expecting them to be terrified, or being generally outraged at something as common, standard, and unimportant as a game not meeting your expectations seems odd to me.
You love to be selective(as you just did with one of PXGs posts). The context of the sentence is them not speaking in detail (exactly whats going in, what it's fixing, how they came to a decision).
OP
OP
Since this seems to frustrate people, going forward, I will quote entire posts, even when I'm replying to a single point.
I doubt Bungie is capable of turning things right for D2 (even if they follow what was announced last week it's still far from enough), and I fear they know that.
Maybe they are already hard at work on D3. That's why they give the impression that they are lazy and don't give a damn.
Maybe they are already hard at work on D3. That's why they give the impression that they are lazy and don't give a damn.
I say "nine months" because Bungie did say it could take up until the fall for all major changes to be implemented and put into effect. Plus, it's no secret we'll see a content drop then too, which will host additional changes as well.
I've always liked Chris Barrett. His Twitter posts recently are reassuring. But he's but one person and one voice. It shouldn't all fall on him to represent the company. Internally, it's a much different story, but obviously none of us see that. Ultimately, having one person saying everything's gonna be okay on Twitter, after so much drama and backlash, just seems insufficient.
I've always liked Chris Barrett. His Twitter posts recently are reassuring. But he's but one person and one voice. It shouldn't all fall on him to represent the company. Internally, it's a much different story, but obviously none of us see that. Ultimately, having one person saying everything's gonna be okay on Twitter, after so much drama and backlash, just seems insufficient.
Last edited:
They did just this. Barely a week ago with a big dev update, but everyone seems to have already forgotten.
hes responding to your post. Just because it isn't what you like, doesn't mean you have to act like he's trying to make you look like an idiot.
I know we're losing; I want to know if we've lost.
In Destiny 2, Bungie worked to create a more balanced game, focusing primarily on action and building a more traditional canpaign. I think they did well in this effort, and I love it, and I know there must be others that do too, but it's clear now to me, and to Bungie, that this focus brought with it a neglect to other game facets that was ill-received by a substantial portion of the franchise fanbase. Will chasing them down bring back the ones that left? Will it compromise the things I love about the game? It's possible here to fail on both of those fronts. People are getting excited about Barry's tweets, but what happens if they don't mean what they think they mean? More disappointment? More invective? How do you communicate by the hour on things that take days, weeks, or months to test and implement? How do you deal with the abuse, misinformation, bad blood, and content carpetbaggers?
Personally, I'm trying to find less pessimistic pockets of the community, because I find the environments like the subreddit to be utterly miserable, and far too common right now. I'd rather everyone who was unhappy step away instead of dogpiling every misstep and flaw. There has to be better criticism, expectation, and rhetoric on the community side if we want to flourish. That's the part of this game we can directly control and influence.
In Destiny 2, Bungie worked to create a more balanced game, focusing primarily on action and building a more traditional canpaign. I think they did well in this effort, and I love it, and I know there must be others that do too, but it's clear now to me, and to Bungie, that this focus brought with it a neglect to other game facets that was ill-received by a substantial portion of the franchise fanbase. Will chasing them down bring back the ones that left? Will it compromise the things I love about the game? It's possible here to fail on both of those fronts. People are getting excited about Barry's tweets, but what happens if they don't mean what they think they mean? More disappointment? More invective? How do you communicate by the hour on things that take days, weeks, or months to test and implement? How do you deal with the abuse, misinformation, bad blood, and content carpetbaggers?
Personally, I'm trying to find less pessimistic pockets of the community, because I find the environments like the subreddit to be utterly miserable, and far too common right now. I'd rather everyone who was unhappy step away instead of dogpiling every misstep and flaw. There has to be better criticism, expectation, and rhetoric on the community side if we want to flourish. That's the part of this game we can directly control and influence.
The thing is, I'm not sure D2 can evolve (on a system and technical basis) in the way D1 evolved.
D1 evolutions followed a logic path actually, it was iterative and added systems on top of existing one to go further (like the infusion system, it was on top of the base system, not really fighting an already put-in-place one), where for D2, I feel like what people are asking isn't even something that can happen unless cleaning the table and starting on a whole new basis (aka D3).
OP
OP
I do not understand why people think that they're lazy or don't give a damn about the game. They seem 100% committed to the game to me. Every word out of their mouths is how they want to improve the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bravo! I'm completely on the same page. I'm tired of stewing in negativity and low effort snark. Solid criticism and analysis is great. Telling people they should be terrified? No thanks.
That's the reason why I'm not bothering to really dwell on my own criticisms. I want our community to be one that's centered on enjoyment and friendship rather than complaints and negativity. The latter just drives people away. Who in their right mind would read r/DTG and think that Destiny 2 was a good game? Pretty sure you'd more likely think that it's a ponzi scheme by an abusive developer who has abandoned the game.
Last edited:
The fact that "every seems to have forgotten" (John mentioned the same) doesn't seem kind of telling? You guys love what you're hearing from Bungie, and that's ok. Others, myself included, want to hear more than "we hear your concerns about X and are looking into it". Its just not good enough.
Also being selective to make a (your) point isn't a conversation driver. You can't base your entire refute on cherry picked key words.
Ultimately you won't be getting any more than words until Jan 30. They aren't sitting on updates and refusing to release them. And even more words are unlikely to be different from what we got last week.
BTW Cozmo23 confirmed on Reddit Prometheus Lens will be fixed on Jan 30. Don't know why these things are Reddit comments rather than part of the TWAB...
OP
OP
Empathy, managing expectations and memory are not Bungie's responsibility. Especially empathy. That's on each of us.
For example, apparently, weekly updates aren't sufficient? I'd posit there is literally no level of communication that would be enough.
Bungie used to have a live webcam in the studio available to anyone on Bungie.net back in the Halo days. That would please everyone I think. /s
I know it's on us. My point being why would the community empathize with Bungie when they don't share anything of substance...which is where our views split. Crazy thing is you're on Era acting like what I'm saying is bugged the fuck out. There's only about 5 of you here singing praise. Reddit is still ablaze feeling just like me.
You like D2. That's amazing. For the first week I loved it. For the first month actually. I did everything and got all gear on two consoles. But the questions still rose. Why isn't this game an evolution of D1? Until it feels that way, people are going to bump heads and have this very same discussion. We're going to continue to ask Bungie to speak into the mic about something pertinent until it becomes the norm.
I mean have you seen the mess that was Destiny 1 vanilla? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to turn it around, especially considering Destiny 2 vanilla was in a much better place than the first game.
Also, I could see how Bungie can seen as sloppy. They keep making silly mistakes (especially in regards to transparency), but I don't see how they're supposedly lazy or lacking in damns to give.
OP
OP
But it is an evolution of D1. It's just not down the path that you wanted. That's fine, but people act like it's some universally accepted, objective fact that Destiny 2 is bad, which is just nope.
FWIW, r/DTG is a salt mine, but there are other communities like r/Destiny2 and r/LowSodiumDestiny that are happy and positive. People left for those other subreddits because r/DTG is a place they didn't think you could post anything positive. High intensity salt tends to be very acerbic and drives away a lot of people. I know a lot of people, even beacons of the community like Hawkian, who don't post here in our OT because it's so salty and people just snark and bitch and whine incessantly. I'm not going to shame or call anyone out, but rather I'm trying to balance that out with posting more about the stuff I enjoy. Destiny 2 is an incredible game. It deserves a good community, instead of one that constantly believes the worst and makes no effort to welcome everyone.
Last edited: