Destiny 2 Director's Cut (State of the Game) Part 1

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
That vanity item talk is worrisome.

So all the crazy drops for new gear will look like shit till we buy somthing off eververse and mod it? Sounds like some other mmo’s I know ...
No, luke is saying extra cosmetic only incentives will continue to come from eververse as they have since launch, but the way you earn in-game currency to buy these will change. He’s also stating that if you have an eververse set you want to complete and you’ve already earned it through eververse just buy playing it’ll become cheaper to buy with real money if you are so inclined instead of having to purchase entire sets at a fixed price.
 

spyder_ur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,712
This was cool to read, and I like the more free-flowing style. As a formerly hardcore but now somewhat lapsed Destiny player, I'm excited about what they do with Shadowkeep.

However, the part about MTX/Eververse essentially paying for the Whisper mission doesn't really sit well with me. It's not even that I'm against MTX/Eververse, though I will say I noticed when Eververse entered Destiny, my interest generally declined around that time. It's just that it's not that simple so drawing that parallel seems like a stretch.

When Eververse debuted, we were promised that it would support the live team and thus result in more active and timely management of Destiny in the form of updates and content. I don't feel that was achieved during D1 (I don't think this is a controversial position). It's possible it's paying dividends now, but for how frank and illuminating the rest of this article was, that part came off a bit manipulative and myopic.
 

Doonski

Member
Aug 22, 2018
12
Wow. This is one of the biggest things that stood out to me honestly
It's a testament to the economics of gaming today, not just Destiny 2. On-going revenue is more concretely tied to the long-term success of a game now, more than ever. "Dollars in/Dollars out" is an oversimplification, so seeing the curtain drawn back to reveal their thinking behind reinvesting bottom line dollars into content is very cool.
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,669
I figure this is as good a place as any for this question, but is Destiny 2 worth getting into these days? I played the hell out of the first Destiny until The Taken King came out and most of my friend group didn't come with me to the next expansion (brilliant timing I know, I hate I never got to do the King's Fall or Wrath of the Machine raids because they looked so good despite doing most of the other stuff, but I was also just starting college so it was probably for the best). And I was downright out of the country when Destiny 2 released and I heard some very mixed things about the game when it launched.

How is it now, is it worth diving back into, and what should a potential new player keep in mind? (I own the free Destiny 2 PSN released some time ago, but I know that's not going to cut it... but don't even know the best upgrade route haha).
There is an enormous amount of content to do in the game at this point. If you grabbed the free PSN version of D2 vanilla last year I'd suggest firing that up and just going through the campaign. See how you feel about it after it's over. The two DLC expansions that followed (Curse of Osiris and Warmind) will be freely available once Shadowkeep arrives (October 1st), so if you're looking for more but don't want to dive in with purchasing Forsaken and/or Shadowkeep, you'll be able to.
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,675
Pakistan
I like seeing this:


Like I get it, MTX bad, but it's nice to see the result of them here is more good content.
It is nice to see a developer flat out say this. It's been known for a while that people paying for shit they don't need to pay for often leads to everybody getting good stuff.

Another great example is Street Fighter V's Fight Money system (at least, pre-nerf). The money was coming in not just from people buying the season pass but the fuck load of costumes. This in turn allowed people who don't want to spend money to still be able to obtain characters completely for free just by playing the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if the free quests and constant addition of free customization options for Ass Creed: Odyssey can partially be attributed to people paying for customization stuff too.

Granted, this is not the case universally.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
There is an enormous amount of content to do in the game at this point. If you grabbed the free PSN version of D2 vanilla last year I'd suggest firing that up and just going through the campaign. See how you feel about it after it's over. The two DLC expansions that followed (Curse of Osiris and Warmind) will be freely available once Shadowkeep arrives (October 1st), so if you're looking for more but don't want to dive in with purchasing Forsaken and/or Shadowkeep, you'll be able to.
if you have vanilla they’ve first two expacs have been available since their stream at the beginning of the summer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,894
Ireland
I always thought exotics that give you more super back after using it, was dumb. Shards, Protocol, etc. all that shit are just dumb exotics that make the original super feel way less special and less powerful, even though they are still stupid strong. I wouldn't mind if they just straight removed them. As for Lunas, yeah they obviously need a nerf and this is coming from a Warlock main.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,502
Love the transparency.

I fell off of Destiny mostly because the game felt a bit like a chore. The cool content is geared towards pre made teams and the rest felt a bit without purpose.

I still love how it plays but I’m not sure I’ll get Shadowkeep. Maybe if the multiplayer gets some focus and there’s some interesting PVE stuff for more casual players. Still, loved to read this.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
I always thought exotics that give you more super back after using it, was dumb. Shards, Protocol, etc. all that shit are just dumb exotics that make the original super feel way less special and less powerful, even though they are still stupid strong. I wouldn't mind if they just straight removed them. As for Lunas, yeah they obviously need a nerf and this is coming from a Warlock main.
Luna’s nerf is gonna be so freeing. I haven’t seen anyone against it. But I’m interested in their reasoning.
 

InsaneTiger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,801
I always thought exotics that give you more super back after using it, was dumb. Shards, Protocol, etc. all that shit are just dumb exotics that make the original super feel way less special and less powerful, even though they are still stupid strong. I wouldn't mind if they just straight removed them. As for Lunas, yeah they obviously need a nerf and this is coming from a Warlock main.
Exactly, I was never clamoring or heard a huge vocal part of the community exclaim they want exotics that generate super energy. Now that they are here the toothpaste is out of the tube. Just kill them or give them a different function.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,950
I think it’s because we’re in this weird in between period exactly for the reasons you stated. In theory I think it’s good to have things available for both bright dust and silver. I really dislike that it’s on a rotation though. The engrams changing does gut things quite a bit and that I’m not happy about, but I’m waiting to specifically hear how bright dust is handled next update.
Agree completely, interested to see what October brings.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,950
I figure this is as good a place as any for this question, but is Destiny 2 worth getting into these days? I played the hell out of the first Destiny until The Taken King came out and most of my friend group didn't come with me to the next expansion (brilliant timing I know, I hate I never got to do the King's Fall or Wrath of the Machine raids because they looked so good despite doing most of the other stuff, but I was also just starting college so it was probably for the best). And I was downright out of the country when Destiny 2 released and I heard some very mixed things about the game when it launched.

How is it now, is it worth diving back into, and what should a potential new player keep in mind? (I own the free Destiny 2 PSN released some time ago, but I know that's not going to cut it... but don't even know the best upgrade route haha).
This might be a useful thread for you from earlier:
 

rcd2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14
Really enjoyed getting some longer form analysis of the state of the game, looking forward to hearing more about the 'RPG' part of the game--it's current representation in gear progression is kind of awful in my mind.

I really wish that 'power' on gear would just be removed completely, it adds absolutely nothing to the experience, has no design purpose beyond arbitrarily gating content, and I guess, the psychology play of watching numbers get bigger despite actually doing nothing once you reach whatever 'gate' a given activity has. And as a resource sink as you grind through it. It's a source of false engagement, grinding for grinding's sake, and the game would lose nothing of value if it was simply gone. Or as others have mentioned, it could be made to actually mean something. That would take a lot more work though, so why not just kill it? The gear game, the RPG game doesn't disappear with those numbers because they aren't actually adding anything in the first place.
 
Aug 12, 2019
72
This might be a useful thread for you from earlier:
Thanks for the heads up and I’m also excited to know they made the first DLCs free, so there’s a good chance I’ll try it out soon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
890
I’m curious how they’re going to nerf Well and Luna. For the well, I’m guessing just reduce the speed at which it heals you and I’m guessing for Luna just don’t make the reload instantaneous.

It’s hilarious how much damage you can dump into a boss with no hesitation.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,950
Thanks for the heads up and I’m also excited to know they made the first DLCs free, so there’s a good chance I’ll try it out soon.
Awesome, I hope you enjoy it. Don't be intimidated by the amount of things there are to do, and ask in the OT or Discord if you have questions or need a hand running something.
 
Apr 25, 2018
662
Rockwall, Texas
It's pretty clear we've become too powerful. we can burn through a strike boss in a single phase if at that. That hardly ever happened in D1. Even something like the Whisper mission isn't as difficult as it should be and they can only counter us by just throwing an insane amount of adds on screen at once. Something needs to change. I'm glad they recognize it but I hope they're smart about it.
 

LAA

Member
Oct 28, 2017
554
Well I really love the transparency and looking forward to reading more.
Interested why "it cant keep expanding infinitely" though. I wanted Destiny 1 to essentially do that originally. Ideally I'd like 1 destiny per gen.
Also why there has to be one gambit mode, though not very interested in keeping both anyway, I think prime is the better one to keep.
The talk about lessening powerful gear drops also seems a bad move to me. Not sure why it's a negative. I guess if you want to encourage people to do a certain thing it could, but surely having certain rewards for activities is enough of an incentive. I've been liking the wide variety of means to get more powerful gear. Puts the power in the players hands to do what they enjoy and progress doing it. Better than the past where you HAD to do raid to level up or you wouldn't.

Putting the eververse into the director also slightly concerns me. I feel it can be slow to load as it is, I cant see adding another menu will speed things up and may just add another option in the way of where you want to get to. Guess we'll see. I'm at least encouraged that eververse money is going into activities like zero hour, I love those events. My concern with it is whether we'll see less of the things eververse supplies be earnable and we'll see more things that are only purchasable, which has been gradually increasing. Maybe the model will be to have things purchasable for a time and then to put them in eververse engrams after x time. I'm fine with that if that's how its gonna be.

Destiny has been the game(s) I've put the most time into this gen though and it's been particularly great this year, so find it hard to really be so critical with them, thouhh I'm even fine with paying for eververse stuff occasionally knowing it helps future content.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,306
I hope there is more the powerful rewards system other than simply retiring rewards from older activities. It always has been but the light level cap increases over the reasons have revealed that they are pointless busywork.

I like seeing this:


Like I get it, MTX bad, but it's nice to see the result of them here is more good content.
I wonder how things like Outbreak Prime and Bad Juju's cosmetics have fared in comparison. I have to imagine a big reason the Whisper cosmetics were so popular was that the gun was so prolific in most end game PvE encounters. Outbreak and Bad Juju aren't nearly as dominate and have mostly existed after Whisper got nerfed into irrelevancy, bringing into question if it's worth "investing" in a weapon.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,238
That was a nice thing to hear. Even though they nerfed it it's still nice to hear about a direct result of some microtransactions in effect.
Zero Hour was worth it. Wonderful mission.


I did my part and bought an ornament for Outbreak and Bad Juju.

Let's see what you can bring us Bungie!


Although, I'm really really not liking how they talked about separating cosmetics from power.... at all.... Sounds like a way of saying cosmetics are all paid...which I really don't like. The almost most difficult things in the game should give the best stuff, and the very most difficult things should give unique, jaw-dropping cosmetics.

I hope there is more the powerful rewards system other than simply retiring rewards from older activities. It always has been but the light level cap increases over the reasons have revealed that they are pointless busywork.



I wonder how things like Outbreak Prime and Bad Juju's cosmetics have fared in comparison. I have to imagine a big reason the Whisper cosmetics were so popular was that the gun was so prolific in most end game PvE encounters. Outbreak and Bad Juju aren't nearly as dominate and have mostly existed after Whisper got nerfed into irrelevancy, bringing into question if its worth "investing" in a weapon.
I got Outbreak because I like to have ornaments and it reminded me of the Cosmodrome.

I got Bad Juju's ornament because I mean. First I love how it looks, but also, it seems to tell a story. Like the cabal were trying to build their own bad juju using a war beast skull since they didn't have, like, a pigeon skull lol. So they try to hook it up to the gun and take advantage of the power surrounding bad juju. Heck there was something about how they wanted to use bad juju but then it got lost in the ascendant realm or whatever and was too dangerous to go get? Idk, but that's something to do with us going in there. So to have that story kind of reinforced by an ornament unique to Destiny 2 and our way of obtaining the gun in it...well that's really fucking cool. Plus just look at it:



The way it seems to tell a story, and the unique remix on the original's design while still maintaining its profile, and with all that attention to detail. Like. This is how you do an ornament. I love it.
 
It's pretty clear we've become too powerful. we can burn through a strike boss in a single phase if at that.
One of the big reasons why the strike bosses absolutely melt now is that we're ≤250 Light above the highest light-level strike playlist. If they rolled out a 700+ strike playlist variation (ideally with better catalyst drop rates...), I'd be all over that.
 

Lifendz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,390
I love how forthcoming and honest this feels. This is what I wanted from D1. Just talk to us like adults and I think most of us will act in kind. Looking forward to whatever changes they make and I’ll be copping the next dlc next paycheck.
 
Apr 25, 2018
662
Rockwall, Texas
One of the big reasons why the strike bosses absolutely melt now is that we're ≤250 Light above the highest light-level strike playlist. If they rolled out a 700+ strike playlist variation (ideally with better catalyst drop rates...), I'd be all over that.
700+ with catalyst drop increase tied into strike chest skeleton keys. Make them worth grinding for again. As it stands once I do the daily and weekly I don't touch them again outside of solstice atm.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,890
Interested why "it cant keep expanding infinitely" though.
I am guessing it has something to do with sustainability of game modes and make sure that enough people are playing modes so that they don't feel barren. Imagine if you start adding a new game mode once every 4 months or so, eventually something is gonna feel noticeably left behind.

It's would turn into the problem warframe has but DE refuses to address.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,519
Telling of what, exactly? If it's not me, it's others. Telling that the Destiny series is divisive? Nothing new there.
How you don't care to have a conversation about destiny and all your posts are the same. It's not that destiny threads are decisive. It's how there is tons of drive by shit posting in destiny threads and has been that way since destiny 1.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,832
Meaty content drops also looking to evaluate the game and alter it to course correct based on the learnings of the past year, every year?

Sounds pretty damn good to me.
Just so I understand. What you're saying is, the game is currently great, they've done a great job updating it, and each year they seem to put extra effort into communicating the state of the game and future updates? How is this a bad thing?
That is my fault. I should have been more specific to PVE being in a good place. PVP is fucked, no way around it. that was what I was referring.
 

Surface of Me

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,404
If only one Gambit is staying they should mesh the modes together IMO. Keep the tie breaker round as a boss phase, but have it be mechanically like a Gambit Prime boss.
 

shark97

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,862
This was cool to read, and I like the more free-flowing style. As a formerly hardcore but now somewhat lapsed Destiny player, I'm excited about what they do with Shadowkeep.

However, the part about MTX/Eververse essentially paying for the Whisper mission doesn't really sit well with me. It's not even that I'm against MTX/Eververse, though I will say I noticed when Eververse entered Destiny, my interest generally declined around that time. It's just that it's not that simple so drawing that parallel seems like a stretch.

When Eververse debuted, we were promised that it would support the live team and thus result in more active and timely management of Destiny in the form of updates and content. I don't feel that was achieved during D1 (I don't think this is a controversial position). It's possible it's paying dividends now, but for how frank and illuminating the rest of this article was, that part came off a bit manipulative and myopic.

At the end of the day they need to sustain a business, or Destiny content wont get made, period. Especially post Activision. I dont have a problem with him mentioning that information.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,076
How you don't care to have a conversation about destiny and all your posts are the same. It's not that destiny threads are decisive. It's how there is tons of drive by shit posting in destiny threads and has been that way since destiny 1.
Sounds pretty divisive to me. Destiny is divisive by nature, how is that a point of contention? You can't at least agree that it's a polarizing series?

And you don't have to tell me about how it used to be, I've been there since the start with Destiny. The critiques were especially warranted with D1. The game would never have reached its highs (The Taken King, Forsaken) if the players were just a bunch of yes men saying OK to everything.
 

shark97

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,862
Oh yeah, one of my main takeaways is KEEP REGULAR GAMBIT. Ditch Prime.

Gambit is a tough sell game mode as is for me, but I really dont like Prime's added complexity or required grindy gearsets.

I'd say the net effect of introducing Prime was that I basically ignore gambit entirely now. Whereas in an alternate no-Prime universe I could see myself voluntarily playing a little.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
11,739
I feel like this is probably the truth for any main looking at the other two classes, but as a Titan main, I rage hard against the Warlock ults while playing Crucible. Dawn Blade and Nova Bomb feel never-ending!
Well, objectively, it is the case for Fist of Havoc and Daybreak. Only that Fist of Havoc is worse because it heals you with every kill.
 

shark97

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,862
Sounds pretty divisive to me. Destiny is divisive by nature, how is that a point of contention? You can't at least agree that it's a polarizing series?

And you don't have to tell me about how it used to be, I've been there since the start with Destiny. The critiques were especially warranted with D1. The game would never have reached its highs (The Taken King, Forsaken) if the players were just a bunch of yes men saying OK to everything.

What the community wants is usually, or at least often, actively destructive towards the game IMO. Win button supers, no challenge PVE, loot showering to the point it's meaningless. etc.

Of course people never blame themselves, though.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,454
Just do gambit as a playlist. Sometimes you get prime, sometimes you get regular. Make the armor perks work on both.
 

Surface of Me

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,404
Oh yeah, one of my main takeaways is KEEP REGULAR GAMBIT. Ditch Prime.

Gambit is a tough sell game mode as is for me, but I really dont like Prime's added complexity or required grindy gearsets.

I'd say the net effect of introducing Prime was that I basically ignore gambit entirely now. Whereas in an alternate no-Prime universe I could see myself voluntarily playing a little.
I like the idea of dedicated roles in Gambit, but it was executed so poorly. You have to give up all your other armor for some pretty mediocre perks for the most part.
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,076
What the community wants is usually, or at least often, actively destructive towards the game IMO. Win button supers, no challenge PVE, loot showering to the point it's meaningless. etc.

Of course people never blame themselves, though.
The Crucible has, historically, gone back and forth between decent, to an unbalanced mess. I'm in the camp opposite to those who believe we need win button supers. The current roaming super meta is horrible.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,519
Sounds pretty divisive to me. Destiny is divisive by nature, how is that a point of contention? You can't at least agree that it's a polarizing series?

And you don't have to tell me about how it used to be, I've been there since the start with Destiny. The critiques were especially warranted with D1. The game would never have reached its highs (The Taken King, Forsaken) if the players were just a bunch of yes men saying OK to everything.
It would have never gotten to the highs with posters like you either. It's fine criticizing the game but there's a difference with your posts and people criticizing the game.