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PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,446
There was a way to drop this content and have it be for the hardcore without flat out making people grind old content right off bat for 10 hours. That's not really defenseable. There are at least 3 forges. If underleveled players needed to grind forge 1 for a month in order to level ( along with other content rewarding powerful gear) then that's fine, and was more or less the expectation.
 

Jaaake

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,215
Australia
So I bought the annual pass because I liked Forsaken but I dropped off at LL 569, is there really nothing for me do with the Black Armoury until I get to 600?
I'm in the same boat. I did the major stuff in Forsaken and was planning to come back for the first DLC but it seems I misunderstood what it actually is. Stopped at like 560 light or something.

Honestly think I'm just gonna take an L on buying the season pass and move on entirely
 

Ant78

Member
Oct 27, 2017
402
Went to Mars yesterday to do the milestone and daily heroic adventure and wound up doing a full EP run with 5 other randoms. My reward, a postmaster full of shitty blues and it wiped out 2 600 light weapons and a 602 light helmet I had stored there.

Bungie needs to allow us to auto dismantle blues on pickup. I'm so tired of losing shit out of my postmaster and having to manually delete the useless crap. Once you're into the upper 500s there is no purpose to blue gear at all.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,540
I feel like people expecting Black Armory to be treated like a traditional content drop are just having misplaced expectations. This is including the people that want to be able to play the activity day one. I've set it before but Bungie has traditionally had a problem with putting out content all from the beginning and then the activities get drawn out for months on end with very little change. It makes progression feel frontloaded. It's why the MMO approach of slowly tackling raids one section at a time or progression that is meant to ease you from patch to patch helps alleviate these issues. Annual Pass is meant to be a drip of content over a period of time. You don't get a new WoW expansion and immediately be able to do the newest Raid without hitting the next level cap. I don't get why people feel so differently about Destiny than other live service games. Bungie is actually getting the right idea of slowly putting out content over a period of time instead of all at once. It helps. It makes progression of content and the drop of content feel meaningful.
Question marks over my head reading a few pages since the BA release. I'm not sure how Bungie could have been more transparent with what was dropping and when. You have the month-by-month roadmap for content, and then a date-by-date one for the month. For me the below image did a pretty good job of tempering my expectations on when stuff would come on "release", which is a misnomer in and of itself.

black_armory_calendar.jpg


In two weeks time we'll have all 3 forges open, be in the midst of the Dawning and have the new raid to run. With more on the horizon! Of course 'day one' and 'release' aren't going to be as hype as the content drops before it because it's just one fragment of the whole being put out. People wringing their hands about whether the Annual Pass is worth the price or not because Bungie delivered exactly what they said they'd deliver.
Again, I think if the first Forge was decently playable day 1 for 600 light players, we wouldn't be seeing quite this reaction. We'd probably still see a relatively negative one considering the impressions of the Forge from people who did manage to get through it, but still. Out of all that expectation setting, I don't think they properly explained we'd be so underleveled for the main new activity they've been advertising this whole time and I think they also probably played up the Forge as something more interesting than it actually is. With three Forges being drip fed to us over time, it made so much more sense to have the required Light for the first Forge be 600. Let people in and feel like they have a fighting chance. Let people experience the new machine gun day 1 if they do well enough so they can grind old stuff with a new toy. This is all another reason the loot increase being so minimal is a shame and honestly kind of baffling to me. People wouldn't mind grinding old stuff so much if they could do it with new loot or had more new loot to grind for.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,006
Three thoughts:
1) I ended up farming EP for a couple steps in the Black Armory Quest. 4 full completions and I still only get shader drops from the final boss of this activity. Probably completed this activity at least a hundred times and no weapon from it. A bit frustrating.
2) speaking of shaders, how is there STILL no option to delete and entire shader stack?! Yeah they sped up individual trashing, but when there's hundreds of ones I don't want it still takes too long.
3) the vanguard strike pursuit is gonna take a while, but I don't mind. I was gonna run tons of strikes anyway.
 

Bold One

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
18,911
Went to Mars yesterday to do the milestone and daily heroic adventure and wound up doing a full EP run with 5 other randoms. My reward, a postmaster full of shitty blues and it wiped out 2 600 light weapons and a 602 light helmet I had stored there.

Bungie needs to allow us to auto dismantle blues on pickup. I'm so tired of losing shit out of my postmaster and having to manually delete the useless crap. Once you're into the upper 500s there is no purpose to blue gear at all.
Did some EP yesterday too by accident, its still really active. But you spot on about the post master, why can't you send stuff to the vault directly from there?
 

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,627
Again, I think if the first Forge was decently playable day 1 for 600 light players, we wouldn't be seeing quite this reaction. We'd probably still see a relatively negative one considering the impressions of the Forge from people who did manage to get through it, but still. Out of all that expectation setting, I don't think they properly explained we'd be so underleveled for the main new activity they've been advertising this whole time and I think they also probably played up the Forge as something more interesting than it actually is. With three Forges being drip fed to us over time, it made so much more sense to have the required Light for the first Forge be 600. Let people in and feel like they have a fighting chance. Let people experience the new machine gun day 1 if they do well enough so they can grind old stuff with a new toy. This is all another reason the loot increase being so minimal is a shame and honestly kind of baffling to me. People wouldn't mind grinding old stuff so much if they could do it with new loot or had more new loot to grind for.

Yeah, if the soft cap was raised, the new forge mode was a bit more dynamic and interesting, and maybe a new strike...I don't think you would see the complaints.

Also, essentially locking out new loot to anyone below 610 or so that can't do this Forge mode...but oh well, what can you do.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Bungie needs to dole out rewards at the same frequency as Rise of Iron.
Reward players for just playing.

I feel that that Forsaken and beyond is just too grindy and punishes players who play allot.

IMO, Escalation Protocol should dole at rewards just like the Rise of Iron Forge did.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Bungie has all but said that Y2 is for the hardcore. With the wording of the road map, it was clear that this content was going to be only for people that are at 600 and above. Funny how I brought this up in a thread back in early November and was all but silenced..."just wait for Bungie to release it I'm sure everything will be fine"..."there is nothing suspicious about their lack of communication on the Annual Pass, people are entitled and need to know everything now"...lol...but yeah, if you don't do a raid at least once a week, and you didn't reach 600 yet, then this isn't the game for you right now. Wait until the last expansion comes out in the summer and play all the Annual Pass content together, or wait for Y3.
Do the hardcore not play strikes or gambit? Do the hardcore not want new patrol areas or new milestones that aren't the same old boring shit? This "expansion" doesn't feel like its for the hardcore. It feels like its for suckers. And they got me. Again.
 

MMBosstones86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,181
Started the game up yesterday and got my glory boost, which led to a rank up : Wavesplitter.

Playing gambit to get Breakneck and get another exotic to drop : Coyote chestpiece.

Did they up the exotic rate? That's probably double the amount of Forsaken exotics I've gotten since it released. Crazy. Also the first Armory being power gated is pretty ridiculous. Makes the whole "DLC" very underwhelming when I can't even progress in the new content at all. Oh well.
 
Oct 30, 2017
5,006
Started the game up yesterday and got my glory boost, which led to a rank up : Wavesplitter.

Playing gambit to get Breakneck and get another exotic to drop : Coyote chestpiece.

Did they up the exotic rate? That's probably double the amount of Forsaken exotics I've gotten since it released. Crazy. Also the first Armory being power gated is pretty ridiculous. Makes the whole "DLC" very underwhelming when I can't even progress in the new content at all. Oh well.

No idea. I've been playing religiously and still don't have a single piece of Forsaken exotic gear.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,540
Started the game up yesterday and got my glory boost, which led to a rank up : Wavesplitter.

Playing gambit to get Breakneck and get another exotic to drop : Coyote chestpiece.

Did they up the exotic rate? That's probably double the amount of Forsaken exotics I've gotten since it released. Crazy. Also the first Armory being power gated is pretty ridiculous. Makes the whole "DLC" very underwhelming when I can't even progress in the new content at all. Oh well.
They must have. After not getting anything for weeks, I got 3 exotics yesterday (though 1 was before reset). Two were dupes but they were above 600 so I wasn't complaining. The other was Trinity Ghoul which is only the 4th non-quest Forsaken exotic I've managed to get.
 

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,627
Do the hardcore not play strikes or gambit? Do the hardcore not want new patrol areas or new milestones that aren't the same old boring shit? This "expansion" doesn't feel like its for the hardcore. It feels like its for suckers. And they got me. Again.

They do, but the main goals for the hardcore seems to be raids, difficult to get accolades and side quests, and the loot grind. This delivers that.
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
I think they were pretty clear on their messaging.

Only two things contribute to my low morale:
  • Can't play new activity when it arrives and it's gonna take a while to level up, even though I was 600.
  • Only way to grind is the same stuff for the same reward. No new Crucible or Vanguard or Gunsmith loot.
It's kind of a bummer to have new content and be a ways from being able to do it. Streamers might be 620 right now, but even a 1% like me is gonna take a while. And what a bad deal this is for my real life friends who are 550 & 580. They still have substantial investment in Forsaken, but this Annual pass is useless to them.

I've got 1000+ crucible tokens and nothing to spend them on. I've already got a Best Devils. Same with Vanguard. I've got 1000s of Gunsmith parts, but nothing to do with them.

I'm honestly not too interested in playing right now
, other than this game continues to be a blast to play with friends.
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,892
Pakistan
Is there a worthwhile Legendary SMG? I've been trying to aim for the Huckleberry but the Telesto's potential as a secondary weapon is really making me rethink it lol.

If not, I'll probably just go for the Breakneck.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,643
Blind well in progress instances are broken, but if you wait there for few minutes or start a game, you'll see other people joining in eventually. But yeah it takes longer and not many people join. On the flip side, EP instances are nearly always busy now thanks to that "quest".
 

Blue Ninja

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,763
Belgium
There's a 620 power requirement for the black armory? Fuck me, I stopped playing when I was 525, what's the point of me having bought the annual pass?
 

Aumann

Member
Nov 11, 2017
66
They must have. After not getting anything for weeks, I got 3 exotics yesterday (though 1 was before reset). Two were dupes but they were above 600 so I wasn't complaining. The other was Trinity Ghoul which is only the 4th non-quest Forsaken exotic I've managed to get.

Last week after the update on the 27th, received 4(!!) exotics in 1 day while doing milestones. Although 2 were dupes, that was a crazy occurence after not getting crap for weeks. Then to top it off, got Geomag Stabilizers a few days later.
 

Bold One

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
18,911
If what johnofmars is saying about there being no new bse line loot is true, then that's really fucking stupid.

Forsaken's loot is anaemic and really needed a shake up.

WTF Bungle?
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
There's a 620 power requirement for the black armory? Fuck me, I stopped playing when I was 525, what's the point of me having bought the annual pass?

From the patch notes:
Prime Engrams will now appear more frequently for players under 550 power, and provide larger power benefits when decrypted
That said, 550 to 600 and 600 to 620 is still a hell of a grind. You'll at least get The Last Word quest at the end of January? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What really worries me, is if every season adds 50 LL, holy crap, falling behind on leveling is terrifying.

The Annual Pass is for the 1% of the 1% and nobody else.
 

Blue Ninja

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,763
Belgium
From the patch notes:
Prime Engrams will now appear more frequently for players under 550 power, and provide larger power benefits when decrypted
That said, 550 to 600 and 600 to 620 is still a hell of a grind. You'll at least get The Last Word quest at the end of January? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What really worries me, is if every season adds 50 LL, holy crap, falling behind on leveling is terrifying.

The Annual Pass is for the 1% of the 1% and nobody else.
I'm already wishing I'd waited to buy it. :lol
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,540
If what johnofmars is saying about there being no new bse line loot is true, then that's really fucking stupid.

Forsaken's loot is anaemic and really needed a shake up.

WTF Bungle?
This is what I've been saying. This thing is called The Black Armory and there's no campaign. I was expecting that manpower would be put towards a new armory!
 

No Ketchup

Member
Nov 29, 2018
26
I love playing the game and certainly, I have to trepidation about the way this is rolled out with the power cap and what not. I can definitely see this turning off people who are below 600. But for someone like me who is 600 and have been for a minute, I'm hesitating on diving in given the communities reaction. I can easily see Bungie raising the soft cap as a result of this negative feedback. Which if I'm grinding it out to at least 610 and they raise the cap, then it was wasted effort on my part.

So I could continue the grind or wait it out to see if the soft cap increases. Take that possibility and the fact that I still need to finish Red Dead 2...I'm probably not coming back to this game daily/weekly like I did in Forsaken.
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
If what johnofmars is saying about there being no new bse line loot is true, then that's really fucking stupid.

Forsaken's loot is anaemic and really needed a shake up.

WTF Bungle?

Outside of pinnacle weapons, Zavala got Persuader sniper rifle and Shaxx got Wishbringer shotgun. Saladin gets 2 reprised Year 1 Iron Banner weapons (Crimil's Dagger and Hero's Burden SMG). Nothing new at the Gunsmith.

There's only 3 armor sets: Raid, Forge, Banner.

There is so much left behind in Year 1. Just bring the Destination Armor into the fold or something, anything.
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
I love playing the game and certainly, I have to trepidation about the way this is rolled out with the power cap and what not. I can definitely see this turning off people who are below 600. But for someone like me who is 600 and have been for a minute, I'm hesitating on diving in given the communities reaction. I can easily see Bungie raising the soft cap as a result of this negative feedback. Which if I'm grinding it out to at least 610 and they raise the cap, then it was wasted effort on my part.

So I could continue the grind or wait it out to see if the soft cap increases. Take that possibility and the fact that I still need to finish Red Dead 2...I'm probably not coming back to this game daily/weekly like I did in Forsaken.

Bungie won't raise the softcap retroactively. They won't devalue people's effort. They know better than that. These kind of complaints are always present on early days where there's pain points on progression.

No, what I'd say the likely reaction to this negative feedback is making certain you can play Season of the Drifter stuff on Day 1.
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
But on the plus side, there's a new sparrow! And it will only cost you 15 dollars.

That's unfair. $15 is the direct purchase price. That Sparrow is in the Eververse engram loot pool. Between normal rank ups and the Prismatic Matrix, you can likely get it without spending a dime.

Eververse has been quite tame and even generous for a while now.
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
But on the plus side, there's a new sparrow! And it will only cost you 15 dollars.

That's unfair. $15 is the direct purchase price (and includes some engrams and shaders too). That Sparrow is in the Eververse engram loot pool. Between normal rank ups and the Prismatic Matrix, you can likely get it without spending a dime.

Eververse has been quite tame and even generous for a while now.
 

Immortan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,457
Los Angeles
They should let you move armor up with you. I worked hard for that solstice armor that glows. It was great for a week, then got outclassed by everything. Not worth using it now since it only has armor perks for recovery, resilience, mobility. Needs to be rolled for mats or something to be able to random roll perks like special ammo finder and whatnot.

That at least would make playing the game a tad more fun then using only new gear. I like the old gear, I want to use all of it, multiple sets, for different things not just 1 set fits all.
 

No Ketchup

Member
Nov 29, 2018
26
No, what I'd say the likely reaction to this negative feedback is making certain you can play Season of the Drifter stuff on Day 1.

The big difference between Black Armory and Season of the Drifter is that, I'm assuming that season will be Gambit focused. And Gambit is not power gated like Black Armory currently is.
 

JohnOfMars

Fighting Lion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,107
Mars
The big difference between Black Armory and Season of the Drifter is that, I'm assuming that season will be Gambit focused. And Gambit is not power gated like Black Armory currently is.

You've got a point. I will point out that Season of the Drifter has "New Gambit Experience" so who knows. They need to justify the 50LL increase somehow...

The Seasonal Power Level increases are so weird. Like, if you don't have the Annual Pass, what's the point? Just seeing a number go up?
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,435
Is there a worthwhile Legendary SMG? I've been trying to aim for the Huckleberry but the Telesto's potential as a secondary weapon is really making me rethink it lol.

If not, I'll probably just go for the Breakneck.
The Ikelos SMG is really good, but it's in the energy slot so you can't pair it with Telesto. Antiope is the traditional favourite in the kinetic slot.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
That's unfair. $15 is the direct purchase price (and includes some engrams and shaders too). That Sparrow is in the Eververse engram loot pool. Between normal rank ups and the Prismatic Matrix, you can likely get it without spending a dime.

Eververse has been quite tame and even generous for a while now.
It's not unfair. Go into Eververse and look at the contents of the engrams and Dark Horse isn't a sparrow that's listed there. It's only attainable by purchase.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,540
They should let you move armor up with you. I worked hard for that solstice armor that glows. It was great for a week, then got outclassed by everything. Not worth using it now since it only has armor perks for recovery, resilience, mobility. Needs to be rolled for mats or something to be able to random roll perks like special ammo finder and whatnot.

That at least would make playing the game a tad more fun then using only new gear. I like the old gear, I want to use all of it, multiple sets, for different things not just 1 set fits all.
I keep saying they need to implement cosmetic slots for armor. That would keep older content relevant in the end game for the fashion chase as well as keep old gear from becoming outdated without needing to update them all with stats. I immediately stopped grinding for that Solstice armor when I realized it would be useless in a few weeks. But if say I could put the EP Warmind gear in a cosmetic slot, I'd be sure to grind that every week until I had full sets or I'd try a little harder to get people together for the older raids that had cool looking gear.
 

DntSpwnOnMe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
550
Bungie is just not good at balancing the grind for hardcore and regular players. There as so many ways they could have rolled this out. They could have made the new cap 700 at the start of the season and let everyone know that the forge starts at 625 and the raid will be 700. If would still give the hardcore still something to chase, the raid, while everyone spends last week trying to get ready for the forge. Also, the soft cap should have moved to 575 to those a little behind as an added boost.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,427
Bungie won't raise the softcap retroactively. They won't devalue people's effort. They know better than that. These kind of complaints are always present on early days where there's pain points on progression.

No, what I'd say the likely reaction to this negative feedback is making certain you can play Season of the Drifter stuff on Day 1.

They raise the softcap all the time. They have since D1 as time goes on.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,046
Bungie is just not good at balancing the grind for hardcore and regular players. There as so many ways they could have rolled this out. They could have made the new cap 700 at the start of the season and let everyone know that the forge starts at 625 and the raid will be 700. If would still give the hardcore still something to chase, the raid, while everyone spends last week trying to get ready for the forge. Also, the soft cap should have moved to 575 to those a little behind as an added boost.

What I don't get is that Bungie had it balanced at the end of Destiny 1 (it was FAR from perfect, but IMO as good as it was gonna get) yet they still decided to try and reinvent the wheel with 2...
 

ImperatorPat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,461
USA
There's a 620 power requirement for the black armory? Fuck me, I stopped playing when I was 525, what's the point of me having bought the annual pass?
Why'd you buy the pass if you only made it to 525? I assume that means you never got to the raid or dungeon and skipped the Halloween event. you still had lots of original forsaken content left to play.

At least other parts of the pass like new Gambit content next season will be relevant to you I guess?

This does seem like a 1% of the 1% pass. On the other hand, nice to see my efforts to make it to 600 on two characters paid off . I should be able to do the forge next week no problem (people are completing it at 600 but I don't think I'd be up to that right now).
 

Plasma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,637
Chase pinnacle weapons for gambit, vanguard and Crucible.

Do the raid

Do ascendant challenges

Do spider bounties along with dozens of other bounties

Do the daily heroics

Do the strikes

Do the nightfall

Do Gambit

Do daily adventures

Etc etc

You'll be 600+ in no time
Ooh grinding out the same content I was playing before I dropped off, fun.
 
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