• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.
  • Community Spotlight sign-ups are open once again for both Gaming and EtcetEra Hangout threads! If you want to shine a spotlight on your community, please register now.

Destiny 2: Forsaken |OT3| All Right, All Right, All Right.

Nov 20, 2017
859
IS moving target and snapshot sights with a tac mag and small bore a good roll for a retold in PvP. I've been looking for something other than Ringing Nail to use with TLW.


energy ARs, Scouts and Pulses have taken the L for the past 6 mos.
Yep, that's plenty good for a PVP roll. Accurized Rounds would boost the range slightly over tac mag but tag mag has other benefits so it's not a net loss. Moving Target and Snapshot are actually quite good for closing in while aiming down sights and synergize well. Retold tale has decent base range and stats anyway so there's very few bad ones for PVP so it's all about finding perks that synergize (which you have) and that you like.
 
CoolGuy just did his breakdown on the buff to bottom tree Stryker Titan (Code of the Juggernaut). It was already really good but the buffs honestly put it over the top for me. I don't think it's going to get to stay this strong but I will enjoy it while it last. You can easily run around 1 punching people in the Crucible or make any aggressive frame sniper into a 1 body shot kill.
Sturm can 1-shot now under the right conditions:

IS moving target and snapshot sights with a tac mag and small bore a good roll for a retold in PvP.
Everything’s great except smallbore, that might let you down. Full choke or rifled barrel are still the way to go for Crucible shotties.

As far as energy pulses, a good Right Side of Wrong can still do you just fine. Last Perdition & Swift Ride are also right up there now.

That's fair enough. It seems like I should just carry on with the Forsaken campaign for now then. I've been grinding Gambit to get Bygones, Trust and Bad Omens which I have and I have three exotics now though I am only wearing Young Ahamkara's Spine.
Bygones is great, I play with lots of hardcore players who still main it.

You 100% want to finish the Forsaken campaign before doing anything else, it’s not actually that long. That will unlock...a lot of really great stuff you’ll want to get into.
 
Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

I waited months already lol just week after week of the breytech one but no dreaming city

Oh I still need a ST ghost or sparrow or ship I forget. Gotta look out for the full curse cycle
The Corrupted strike was weirdly missing from the playlist for a long time, so they put it back in. I’m sure it’ll come up again soon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,156
Northeast USA
Yep, that's plenty good for a PVP roll. Accurized Rounds would boost the range slightly over tac mag but tag mag has other benefits so it's not a net loss. Moving Target and Snapshot are actually quite good for closing in while aiming down sights and synergize well. Retold tale has decent base range and stats anyway so there's very few bad ones for PVP so it's all about finding perks that synergize (which you have) and that you like.
Uh, Outlast and Claws of the Wolf.
Everything’s great except smallbore, that might let you down. Full choke or rifled barrel are still the way to go for Crucible shotties.

As far as energy pulses, a good Right Side of Wrong can still do you just fine. Last Perdition & Swift Ride are also right up there now.

My other Retold has Auto-Loading and Snapshot with Tac mag and Full Choke, should I use that one instead?


-My Claws has Threat Detector and High-Impact, so it's pretty useless in PvP

-Last Perdition was the pulse I used Y1 before I got a Darkest Before. Now that the Y2 version is with Lord Sucks, I have two:
Full Auto/Graver Robber with append or Extended Mag and an SRO Ocular scope
or
Grave Robber/Rampage with Tac Mag and Ocular scope..

- Swift Ride XE has FullAuto/Outlaw Flared Mag and SPO scope


I've gotten so Many Right Side of Wrong, that I shard on contact now. The only one I have still is Firmly planted/High Impact.




I also just came to the realization that I still have 305/380 exotics I can shard, as well as hundreds of other guns with trash loadouts that I can use for the mats.
 
My other Retold has Auto-Loading and Snapshot with Tac mag and Full Choke, should I use that one instead?
Yeah, I absolutely would, snapshot & full choke are top tier. Auto-loading’s not a god tier perk, but it can come in handy. Tactical mag is fine.

I've gotten so Many Right Side of Wrong, that I shard on contact now. The only one I have still is Firmly planted/High Impact.
Right Side of Wrong is the same gun as Go Figure, which is right up there with other meta weapons with a good roll, it’s the same archetype as Blast Furnace.

Swift Ride and Last Perdition are basically the same weapon, don’t believe the Perdition hype. They’re like 1 or 2 points off each other in every stat. So if you liked Perdition, a good Swift Ride should do you nicely.

The other pulse rolls you listed look like legendary shards to these eyes.
 
Someone on Reddit said the content isn't worth playing until you're around that level.
If you buy the annual pass then you can get bounties from the Drifter to bump you up to 640 with a few hours of playtime. Whether or not what you can do with your new power is fun or not...

But then I can’t use this sweet Getaway Artist.
Works on the other trees too. Do arc soul kills proc arc web on the top tree?

Everything’s great except smallbore, that might let you down.
Smoothbore is the bad one.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,912
I though Pulse rifles were in. Where have I been?
They’re not HC and maps are smooshed in d2 and a slew of other factors that put them under HC in pvp. 4 burst is very competitive in PvE though since the variations in encounters, enemies (i.e. having AI that is very consistent in behavior), and (more so) range are vast in comparison to PvP.

Basically see post above
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
6,156
Northeast USA
I though Pulse rifles were in. Where have I been?
Nope, it all Hand Cannons and shotty in PvP now. I should have put Snipers instead of pulses in there, as there is not a single AR, Sniper or Scout Rifle on that list and it's still realy dominated by HCs and Shottys.

most recent Meta explains it all:

Kinetic:
Dust Rock
Bygones
Blast Furnace

Service Revolver
The Last Word
Ace of Spades
Chaperone
Malfeasance
Militias Birthright
Thorn

Energy:
Luna's Howl
JoTunn
Trust
Last Perdition
Not Forgotten
Recluse
Erentil
Fighting Lion
Ikelos HC
Retold Tale

Power:
Wardcliff
Colony
Hamerhead
Play of the Game
Thunderlord
Bad Omens
Tractor Cannon
Edge Transit
Play of the Game
21% Delirium
 

JohnOfMars

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
990
Mars
Nope, it all Hand Cannons and shotty in PvP now. I should have put Snipers instead of pulses in there, as there is not a single AR, Sniper or Scout Rifle on that list and it's still realy dominated by HCs and Shottys.
Scout rifles have never been the meta (unless you count that brief time in D2Y1 with MIDA) and probably never will be. ARs and SMGs dominated Crucible for a long time last year. Snipers are still viable, but they're not easy to use and the meta will favor ease of use. I do see snipers in Comp not uncommonly. I prefer a shotgun meta over a sniper meta, tbh, because peaking a lane and seeing 6 glinting scopes is lame.

You may only see a small subset in "the meta", but D2 has been characterized by almost everything being viable, which is pretty awesome. Bows, 110 HCs, Fusions, SMGs, you can find a playstyle that works for all those. Will they all get us to 5500 glory? nah, but most of us aren't 5500 glory players. The Crucible is a pretty good spot aside from Spectrals, but I wouldn't object to more tuning and updates. Just to keep things fresh.

P.S. I don't know where you get your meta data from, but Fighting Lion is ranked 46th in PvP according to DestinyTracker. It offends my hipster sensibilities for you to say that it's a Meta gun. :P
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,156
Northeast USA
Scout rifles have never been the meta (unless you count that brief time in D2Y1 with MIDA) and probably never will be. ARs and SMGs dominated Crucible for a long time last year. Snipers are still viable, but they're not easy to use and the meta will favor ease of use. I do see snipers in Comp not uncommonly. I prefer a shotgun meta over a sniper meta, tbh, because peaking a lane and seeing 6 glinting scopes is lame.

You may only see a small subset in "the meta", but D2 has been characterized by almost everything being viable, which is pretty awesome. Bows, 110 HCs, Fusions, SMGs, you can find a playstyle that works for all those. Will they all get us to 5500 glory? nah, but most of us aren't 5500 glory players. The Crucible is a pretty good spot aside from Spectrals, but I wouldn't object to more tuning and updates. Just to keep things fresh.

P.S. I don't know where you get your meta data from, but Fighting Lion is ranked 46th in PvP according to DestinyTracker. It offends my hipster sensibilities for you to say that it's a Meta gun. :P
Those were yesterdays numbers brotha.

It's from the Discord bot, so it's probably right for yesterday's numbers.... It's mayhem, so everyone is on that hunter spew/GL multi-kill kick for mountaintop.


Scouts should be viable in D2, but they don't like the long range fights, so they took scouts and snipers pretty much out of crucible....
 
Apr 10, 2018
1,698
Those were yesterdays numbers brotha.

It's from the Discord bot, so it's probably right for yesterday's numbers.... It's mayhem, so everyone is on that hunter spew/GL multi-kill kick for mountaintop.


Scouts should be viable in D2, but they don't like the long range fights, so they took scouts and snipers pretty much out of crucible....
There's maybe 2 maps in all of D2 where a Scout Rifle is actually viable, the problem is sightlines. Most of the "long" sightlines are still firmly in Pulse Rifle territory, the actual long ones are few and far between.

This is partly because Scouts are weak and partly because Pulse Rifles are overtuned.
 
Nov 20, 2017
859
Scouts should be viable in D2
Scouts are perfectly viable. I've had some extremely good games with Vouchsafe, Mida, Jade Rabbit and even a well-rolled Does Not Compute (Drop Mag, Zen Moment, Killclip). You just have to play more passively than everyone else and pick your lanes and sight lines. I watched a recent video from zkMushroom who's plenty good and on the PC and he got a We Ran with Mida on Altar of Flame (not a large map by any stretch) which should tell you something.

Just because something isn't as easy to use does not make it useless. It just means you might have to work a little harder or think in a different way. And some of us find that fun!
 

JohnOfMars

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
990
Mars
Just because something isn't as easy to use does not make it useless. It just means you might have to work a little harder or think in a different way. And some of us find that fun!
Agree wholeheartedly.

Also, just because something isn't for you, doesn't mean it's bad. Take Dexterity perks. From the Massive Breakdown post on Reddit:

But I use them with Fighting Lions or bows for quick clean up with my other primary. They also work great with a Sniper rifle and TLW. 0.14 seconds in moving between combat is whatever, but for a quick blint and clean-up, that's like 20% reduction in TTK. THAT'S HUGE. That absolutely will swing a fight. (also, you can fire much faster with a dexterity perk)

Just because something's not your cup of tea doesn't mean it's objectively bad.
 

JaegerDeus

Banned
Member
Jan 25, 2018
236
Snipers are definitely experiencing a renaissance in PVP of late.

Which, conveniently, lines right up with my K/D taking a dive of late.

I am fucking TRASH at sniping. Not just in Destiny. The last time I was good at sniping was with the Quake 3 railgun. I couldn't even swipe-snipe in Halo 2. I just can't handle the zoomed in reticule speed. At least in q3 I could make a quite edit to the ini file and make my mouse scroll speed when zoomed in with that weapon sloooooow.

As far as Scout Rifles, I think they're in a good spot, based on how well they perform in the maps with the sight-lines necessary to optimize engagement distance. The problem is not enough maps afford enough opportunities to do so.

Between 6 people playing on maps designed for 4, the go-fast update, it's just too easy for players to close on you with more powerful weapons, render the range advantage moot and destroy you with better DPS.

That's kind of why I really want to get a No Feelings rolled with Box Breathing. A 200rpm scout with 3 hit potential, I bet that hangs with pulses.

Til then.... hey Bungie, maybe get somebody to remaster some of the biggest, most open D1 maps?
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,659
Southeastern PA
As a sniper I haven't sniped in months. Maps just aren't big enough for it. And on big maps I snipe with scouts or pulses. Two ammo just isn't enough to satisfy my needs. And on these maps is where the weaknesses of people who run shotguns all day are exposed. They can't do anything to me because of obvious reasons.
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,930
Hm not really since november for me, more like since february or something like that, although I do have to admit that I've been playing this game on and off since the DLC dropped. The shotgun nerf doesn't seem to be that noticeable for me as everyone and their mom are still rolling with the Dust Rock Blues. The Wardcliff coil is indeed annoying as hell and as soon as I see someone having it selected I know what to expect so that's an upside to this whole thing I guess :P
.

wardcliff is such a beast. I might get half my kills with it (not really but ya). I finally put on double rocket scavenger perks, any ground brick gives me an insane 3 rockets. I've killed people with a wardcliff shot, died, and been able to come back around and pick up my own brick again for 3 more rockets, so like 4 rockets off one wall pull. if it's mg ammo and someone drops it with one shot left, that's 3 rockets, every time. and the multikill potential of coil is insane. on top of all that it stops spectral blades!

i find it fun too for some reason. normally i rail when only one gun is the default as wardcliff is, but like when linear fusions dominated gambit it doesn't bother me in this case.

As far as Scout Rifles, I think they're in a good spot, based on how well they perform in the maps with the sight-lines necessary to optimize engagement distance. The problem is not enough maps afford enough opportunities to do so.
I think they could definitely use some buffs. Bungie seems A-OK with them being constantly relegated to a little used role though. Rationalizing it as they're good at a distance.
 

JaegerDeus

Banned
Member
Jan 25, 2018
236
wardcliff is such a beast. I might get half my kills with it (not really but ya). I finally put on double rocket scavenger perks, any ground brick gives me an insane 3 rockets. I've killed people with a wardcliff shot, died, and been able to come back around and pick up my own brick again for 3 more rockets, so like 4 rockets off one wall pull. if it's mg ammo and someone drops it with one shot left, that's 3 rockets, every time. and the multikill potential of coil is insane. on top of all that it stops spectral blades!

i find it fun too for some reason. normally i rail when only one gun is the default as wardcliff is, but like when linear fusions dominated gambit it doesn't bother me in this case.



I think they could definitely use some buffs. Bungie seems A-OK with them being constantly relegated to a little used role though. Rationalizing it as they're good at a distance.
The problem is, if you buff scout rifle dps and leave the current range intact, then pulse rifles are kind of fucked. Cause scouts could engage at longer range (even if only slightly, as afforded by the maps) and match up with them as far as dps. That was the problem early on for pulse rifles in D2... they were in a bad place, cause they couldn't out-range or out-dps most of the best scouts in the game.

The only solution I could see, is if you absolutely CRANKED the damage for SR crits up and CRANKED up pulse-rifle body damage. You basically put them in the same place in the sandbox (or with a strong overlap) but say SRs are the skill-gap weapon. You land your crits, and you will shred. Pulse rifles are lower-dps but higher forgiveness. You'll outgun a bad SR user, but get smoked by a good one.
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,930
Sturm can 1-shot now under the right conditions:

Bygones is great, I play with lots of hardcore players who still main it.
my problem with 390 pulses although they are great, is they are 40 meter pulses, so you are playing in hand cannon range.

blast furnace with rasmussen goes out to 48 meters, for me that makes all the difference. they have enough range for almost any map like midtown or eternity. sure, they still lack range on the back of those maps compared to a polaris lance, but they are effective enough at most distances.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,964
As a sniper I haven't sniped in months. Maps just aren't big enough for it. And on big maps I snipe with scouts or pulses. Two ammo just isn't enough to satisfy my needs. And on these maps is where the weaknesses of people who run shotguns all day are exposed. They can't do anything to me because of obvious reasons.
Remember those amazing IB lanes wee had in D1,. hmmmmm the sniping battles that took place. Miss those.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,156
Northeast USA
The problem is, if you buff scout rifle dps and leave the current range intact, then pulse rifles are kind of fucked. Cause scouts could engage at longer range (even if only slightly, as afforded by the maps) and match up with them as far as dps. That was the problem early on for pulse rifles in D2... they were in a bad place, cause they couldn't out-range or out-dps most of the best scouts in the game.

The only solution I could see, is if you absolutely CRANKED the damage for SR crits up and CRANKED up pulse-rifle body damage. You basically put them in the same place in the sandbox (or with a strong overlap) but say SRs are the skill-gap weapon. You land your crits, and you will shred. Pulse rifles are lower-dps but higher forgiveness. You'll outgun a bad SR user, but get smoked by a good one.

What is the difference in TTK between Polaris Lance/ Mida and Thorn/TLW?
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,930
The problem is, if you buff scout rifle dps and leave the current range intact, then pulse rifles are kind of fucked. Cause scouts could engage at longer range (even if only slightly, as afforded by the maps) and match up with them as far as dps. That was the problem early on for pulse rifles in D2... they were in a bad place, cause they couldn't out-range or out-dps most of the best scouts in the game.

The only solution I could see, is if you absolutely CRANKED the damage for SR crits up and CRANKED up pulse-rifle body damage. You basically put them in the same place in the sandbox (or with a strong overlap) but say SRs are the skill-gap weapon. You land your crits, and you will shred. Pulse rifles are lower-dps but higher forgiveness. You'll outgun a bad SR user, but get smoked by a good one.

pulse rifle mission statement from bungie is jack of all trades master of none. they are supposed to be decent at long, short and mid, but not the best at anything. that's the compromise for being decent at everything. versus like a scout that's supposed to be great at long and suck at short. MIda seems to be the best exception of a scout that can play decently in short-mid which is probably why it's usually the best scout.

in practice 2nd to hand cannons bungie seems to prefer pulses to be strongest and i tend to agree in that hc/pulse metas feel pretty dynamic.

i mean i haven't thought this through but like 180 scouts crit 55 iirc, i seem to remember them doing 57 in d1. tune them back up to 57, small things like that, for a start.

and iirc pulses were decent in vanilla d1? nightshade was meta in the beta, and 2nd tier meta/pretty good in vanilla iirc, lincoln green etc.
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,930
i had a weird bug i specifically noticed it at least 2 times on different days, my blast furnace was critting for 40 on an individual 1v1 encounter. no buffs of any kind procced that i could detect. (it's the wrong number for kill clip or rampage anyway but regardless they were not proceed etc). This was not Iron Banner obviously so no power level effects.

weird. i wonder if it was something to do with a bug/debuff on the target? Like that new titan exotic that gives a shield when sliding that's supposedly bugged and can increase damage? But the targets were not sliding.

Or now that I'm thinking about it maybe some warlock well buff or something that sticks with you for a minute when you roam off? I'm a hunter.
 

JaegerDeus

Banned
Member
Jan 25, 2018
236
What is the difference in TTK between Polaris Lance/ Mida and Thorn/TLW?
As of 2.2.0 (ie, before the sandbox update that hit this tuesday)

Thorn and Polaris Lance both have the same optimal TTK (0.80)

Mida has an optimal TTK of 0.90, TLW has an optimal TTK of 0.53. Though I wouldn't encourage anybody to engage a MIDA user at optimal MIDA engagement distance with a TLW... particularly on console.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet..._-Wg_5K1gKDOlrwfVzutEjq-s/edit#gid=1159727759

As Bungie has said, it seems they feel that the range advantage warrants a bit of a damage handicap.

And I think that makes sense IF your maps actually provide reasonably equitable opportunity for those engagement ranges. As it stands, there aren't enough big, open maps to make the trade off in DPS worthwhile, especially when players can cross distances so fast.
 
Last edited:
Nov 20, 2017
859
RNG has been uncommonly kind to me in the last 24 hours. 700LL Two-Tailed Fox dropped at the end of one of my Gofannon ignitions yesterday and I had a 700LL Suros Regime drop just now from a PE on Nessus. I already had both but neither of them were 700 so hey, free power bump and free shards from the old ones!
 
Oct 25, 2017
960
Agree wholeheartedly.

Also, just because something isn't for you, doesn't mean it's bad. Take Dexterity perks. From the Massive Breakdown post on Reddit:

But I use them with Fighting Lions or bows for quick clean up with my other primary. They also work great with a Sniper rifle and TLW. 0.14 seconds in moving between combat is whatever, but for a quick blint and clean-up, that's like 20% reduction in TTK. THAT'S HUGE. That absolutely will swing a fight. (also, you can fire much faster with a dexterity perk)

Just because something's not your cup of tea doesn't mean it's objectively bad.
If you're not running Traction, you're doing it wrong.
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,930
i wonder if people are buying/cheating glory (possibly as a side effect of buying not forgotten?). saw two dudes in a QP match I was just in with the glory emblem, one was 5500 glory the other 5220

The 5500 guy ran a 2.67 efficiency 2nd place (for reference I ran a 1.56 in the same match) so I dunno? The 5220 guy though ran a 1.0, that seems highly suspicious. Either that or high rank comp isn't the hellfest I've been led to believe.

Speaking of buying that same banner advertising 599 not forgotten or hatever it was, I saw a banner now for "$99 jotunn farm". Jotunn doesn't have random rolls so that means you're paying 99 just to get it? When it has like a 50% drop rate from the forge and it's impossible to run 3 forges without it dropping for you if you dont have it? I think I had that the day it came out.

Edit: lol the 5500 guy has his match history on pvt too. although he has a 1.25 k/d in competitive which is solid.
 
Last edited:
Nov 20, 2017
859
Today in Destiny I learned to click faster. No, seriously. That Outlast pulse is the fastest semi-auto weapon that I have yet used and since I've not had previous experience with rapid fire pulses it's taking my brain and fingers some time to catch up. 540rpm is high for something you have to manually hit the trigger for on every burst. It's nearly SMG speed (those start at 600rpm, right?) and with the way it shoots it feels like a cross between an SMG and a pulse. My first QP match with it last night I am 100% sure I was clicking too slowly and the gun could have done more with more speed from me. Too much time spent in the handcannon, shotgun, sniper, scout rifle world where "fast" is anything over 200rpm. This is a whole different world. Must do better.
 
i wonder if people are buying/cheating glory (possibly as a side effect of buying not forgotten?). saw two dudes in a QP match I was just in with the glory emblem, one was 5500 glory the other 5220

The 5500 guy ran a 2.67 efficiency 2nd place (for reference I ran a 1.56 in the same match) so I dunno? The 5220 guy though ran a 1.0, that seems highly suspicious. Either that or high rank comp isn't the hellfest I've been led to believe.

Speaking of buying that same banner advertising 599 not forgotten or hatever it was, I saw a banner now for "$99 jotunn farm". Jotunn doesn't have random rolls so that means you're paying 99 just to get it? When it has like a 50% drop rate from the forge and it's impossible to run 3 forges without it dropping for you if you dont have it? I think I had that the day it came out.

Edit: lol the 5500 guy has his match history on pvt too. although he has a 1.25 k/d in competitive which is solid.
How does one get the Jotunn??
It destroys me daily in crucible .
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,930
Today in Destiny I learned to click faster. No, seriously. That Outlast pulse is the fastest semi-auto weapon that I have yet used and since I've not had previous experience with rapid fire pulses it's taking my brain and fingers some time to catch up. 540rpm is high for something you have to manually hit the trigger for on every burst. It's nearly SMG speed (those start at 600rpm, right?) and with the way it shoots it feels like a cross between an SMG and a pulse. My first QP match with it last night I am 100% sure I was clicking too slowly and the gun could have done more with more speed from me. Too much time spent in the handcannon, shotgun, sniper, scout rifle world where "fast" is anything over 200rpm. This is a whole different world. Must do better.
yeah thats the problem with any fastest ROF scout or pulse. Solved with full auto but that brings it's own issues IMO. not sure how good it is, but a ton of fun in quickplay. it definitely can be really good in stretches.

It also kinda feels like an AR to me.

i'm finding it hard to strafe shoot with because it shoots so fast. It can outduel hand cannons though if you can pull off the strafe shooting.

Also got a steady rounds/rasmussen/stable MW blast furnace, my first with full stability (other than zen moment) with a rasmussen sight. Excited to try it, although unfortunately it doesn't have rampage or kill clip. it has snapshot and ambitious assassin.