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Destiny 2: Forsaken |OT3| All Right, All Right, All Right.
- Thread starter Stalker
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TrueVanguard had a good one too.
The thread about it on the Crucible Playbook subreddit is a salt mine.
The thread about it on the Crucible Playbook subreddit is a salt mine.
Yar I agree with all of that. As I said yesterday, NF and LH are now functionally weapons that enjoy a 150 + kill clip experience permanently online as long as you can hit 2 precision hits. That's quite strong. Those of us with Rapid Hit + Kill Clip Service Revolvers have options.
I'm surprised he forgot to mention Service Revolver. A Service Revolver + Kill Clip is obviously more situational in terms of actually putting the perk to use than Magnificent Howl is, but I would certainly expect a reasonable amount of the LH crowd to shift to Service Revolvers if they have a good Kill Clip roll and prefer 180 RPM. It will still offer a 180 with a .67 TTK for those who get to take advantage of the Kill Clip active, while actually being similarly easy to use.
Huh. I usually find it a helpful place (in contrast to the broader community in the DTG sub) full of anti-scrubs.
Well, they're not bad weapons per se. If that was the interpretation on my commentary, I apologize. You can most certainly use *anything* in QP/IB because of the heavy variation in skill levels and experience among players. But you're also not going to see that Breath of the Dragon (or my godroll Hero's Burden/Trackless Waste) in the highest rungs of competitive play. That's largely because a skilled shotgun player knows how to close the gap without taking unnecessary damage and the OHK range is still very long. With most maps in the rotation designed to favoring close engagements, shotguns are clearly optimal (hence their popularity). Alternately, (s)he is using a superior dueling weapon like The Last Word (with which, (s)he should always have the last word in that fight particularly on PC). Regular legendary SMGs are weapons that need a kill + time for reload to get a competitive TTK going or you will just get blitzed. Recluse changed that core truth a bit because it is capable of melting rushers and everything else in its effective range, with great speed and minimal skill required. Not needing to get the kill with that weapon in order to get its crazy damage buff is the big selling point of the weapon (thus is a very popular paring with sniper rifles and Ace) and the degree to which that damage was buffed make it a terror and a true alternative to shotguns.
IMO (just my opinion), we won't see some of these really nice sidearms and SMGs really return to the meta as valid options (not just us having some mild success using them in QP) until shotguns are demonstrably less effective by way of dropping their OHK range by a couple more meters. I know the shotgun apes in us won't like to hear that, but shotguns suck the air out of the room when it comes to close range weapon alternatives. Above say 3000 glory, you're basically throwing the match if you're not running a shotgun, sniper rifle/Arbelast, or TLW somewhere in your setup. Another shotgun range reduction would change all of that.
And again, Recluse sucks all the air out of the room in a similar way for SMGs specifically. If you own a Recluse and opt to use Hero's Burden or Breath instead, you are effectively handicapping yourself for the increased challenge or the sake of change. Or maybe because you got tired of the hate mail. It is better than any other SMG you could equip for almost all activities, regardless of PvE, PvP, or singe. I suspect that they will look to reduce its Master of Arms damage, as any other change would really change its identity.
But yes, IMO, a shotgun range reduction and a Recluse nerf of some kind would bring every well-rolled SMG and sidearm back into play at all levels of competitive play, while keeping shotguns completely relevant...which I continue to believe is the best possible outcome for the game and its health. Auto Rifles are a discussion for another day. ;-)
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Conversation is pretty healthy when conversation doesn't revolve around The Life And Times of Shark97. And while those conversations somtimes evoke a chuckle, they are usually just nonsense with little to no redeeming value for any participant. However, in the rare instance when someone asks a question about weapons or rolls, people are quick to respond. It's just that most here are vets so there aren't a lot of questions to be asked at this point. So things tend to be about what's wrong and what's frustrating people, as is natural given people's general dissatisfaction with Joker's Wild, somewhat out of balance weapons, and PvP disgruntlement from those who generally dislike PvP but have to do it for one reason or another.
This build I've been running around in the Crucible with (full impact mods with Mk.44 Stand Aside's) is also surprisingly fun in PVE, especially for stuff like Public Events or anything Horde mode related. Use Solar for Hammer Strike / Melting Point and you have it available every 15 seconds without the need to hold onto your super like you would with Hallowfire Heart. It's definitely a nice twist on the "fly around and smash into stuff" build that Arc Titans have been using forever with Skullfort except that this doesn't require a kill to keep the melee juices flowing since Mk 44's refund 50% energy on hit regardless of if it kills or not.
Thanks for the clarification. Since I don't participate in high level Comp play I don't see the same issues as someone who does. And you aren't wrong, shotguns are still too strong at close ranges although they are more balanced than they were before the last nerf which might be why we are seeing more SMG's and Sidearm's used in regular Crucible lately (at least I am on the PC). One idea I had was to increase the randomization on the spread making them less reliable 1 hit kill weapons and more of a high risk, high reward play since you don't know if all of those pellets are going to go where you want them to or not.
What are you going on about. Completely different conversation.
And its all about shark. Shark is life.
Dreams-Visions we were talking about the Crucible Playbook subreddit as opposed to here.
JohnOfMars you mentioned a range cap in regards to Service Revolver competing with NF a few weeks ago— can you speak more about this or provide links (or do I have to actually drag a friend into a private match to test my)?
JohnOfMars you mentioned a range cap in regards to Service Revolver competing with NF a few weeks ago— can you speak more about this or provide links (or do I have to actually drag a friend into a private match to test my)?
I dont know. Im also one of those people that dont care about frame data in fighting games. Nothing better than going out there and figuring things out. Numbers wont help you in pressure situations. Also I hate math.
Pve is a different story though.
Pve is a different story though.
Good lord
I feel like changing those guns to 150 is a large enough nerf on its own. They really went hard.
Cant stand firing 150's. Along with 140s I feel like I constant get phantom bullets with those
Its 180 or 110 or bust for me in D2
I feel like changing those guns to 150 is a large enough nerf on its own. They really went hard.
Cant stand firing 150's. Along with 140s I feel like I constant get phantom bullets with those
Its 180 or 110 or bust for me in D2
I would either reduce Maghowl damage to ~100, which allows it to 3 tap but not enough to 2 tap anyone. Or make Maghowl only affects a single shot, instead of every shot you hit within 3 seconds, which will also prevent a 2 tap. But Bungie probably want to completely reduce its optimal TTK hence the RPM change.
They are still precision frames which has vertical recoil and no bloom. Not your average 150 lightweight ones.
oh. I thought you were talking about conversation quality here. Which is indeed often spotty.
i see.
lord. prayin for ya'll rn.
I think I heard it was being reduced to 97.
Yea, I don't know where this will leave them on PC where bloom was never an issue, but on consoles I'd imagine they will still be top tier options since they remain Precision weapons -- first of their kind. lol
This is the most chill destiny related place by far.
Some of the people I play pvp with get really heated. A couple are already talking about uninstalling the game after this season. And these people are better than me so it isn't even going to affect them much.
Some of the people I play pvp with get really heated. A couple are already talking about uninstalling the game after this season. And these people are better than me so it isn't even going to affect them much.
Is it the nerfs that are triggering them?
I understand frustration but I'm surprised that so many people aren't willing to give it a chance. IMO, adjustments that improve the viability of a broader range of weapons and archetypes without making popular things irrelevant are good moves. I guess we'll have to see if this is the former or the later, but it certainly *feels* like it will be healthy even if only to reduce some of the toxicity and frustration around the community. I had gotten to the point where I rarely if ever even equip pinnacle weapons because of hate mail. I actually have had multiple people PM me *before* a match even began (as the ships were flying in) asking me to not ruin their match by using NF/Dust against them. That's certainly not a healthy state for the community mentally. To feel defeated before a match even begins. For people to make others feel like you're going to take their opportunity to have fun away, or to even feel like that yourself (as I sometimes do).
It was coming. When guns jump out too far ahead of the sandbox, they start hurting the game.
There's a fine line between earning of a pinnacle thing and rich-getting-richer. Luna/etc were falling into the latter. It's near impossible to LFG without a Luna on you. It's the same issue Gally started causing, even outside of the sandbox it was starting to be a negative on the social community side.
Not even needing to land a third headshot for a kill still is a massive buff, but at least makes your deaths readable.
There's a fine line between earning of a pinnacle thing and rich-getting-richer. Luna/etc were falling into the latter. It's near impossible to LFG without a Luna on you. It's the same issue Gally started causing, even outside of the sandbox it was starting to be a negative on the social community side.
Not even needing to land a third headshot for a kill still is a massive buff, but at least makes your deaths readable.
Agreed. I'm sure they still be the best 150 legendary in the game. That's a good enough title and will still be *the* top choice if you want to run Chaperone or Coil. With great respect to Kindled Orchid, Trust and Nation of Beasts...LH and NF will *clearly* be the best hand cannons in the slot. Players that can aim will shit on you with them, as they always did. Just maybe without the free-as-fuck back to back 2-tap scenarios.
People need to keep their perspective.
Body damage only too. Just reducing the headshot damage to 97 should be enough imo, but Bungie clearly wants to limit them further.
The main problem with the Luna/NF nerf (console) is they are fun to use, every other gun in the game is just functional and boring to play with. If bloom wasn't a thing TLW and Thorn would have stopped the nerf train ages ago,
Now crucible will pretty much be back to camping with pulses and people spamming Jotun across the map
They also never mentioned the fact that's there's probably more NF's in the game now because 99% of people who have it have used the connection glitch, same with people flaunting 50-0 medals
TLW and Ace will probably be nerfed next as they're even stronger than Luna's/NF on PC and Bungie aren't capable of balancing between PC and console
Now crucible will pretty much be back to camping with pulses and people spamming Jotun across the map
They also never mentioned the fact that's there's probably more NF's in the game now because 99% of people who have it have used the connection glitch, same with people flaunting 50-0 medals
TLW and Ace will probably be nerfed next as they're even stronger than Luna's/NF on PC and Bungie aren't capable of balancing between PC and console
My first reaction was of course shock and disappointment because this was hard work and time and stress. Now that I've absorbed the comments on it I am calmer. It's like so many nerfs like Wormhusk—I got to experience that pre-nerf and it was super fun. However I still don't have a One-Eyed Mask so never got to see it in its glory. LH I will at least have for a few weeks to enjoy at full strength. The change won't be as noticeable to me since I won't have so much time getting used to it. I suppose it'll all be fine...just leave the Recluse alone!! 😁
Anyone use the rapid-fire frame pulse rifles much around here? Claws of the Wolf / Outlast / Horror's Least 540rpm. I never gave them much of a shot until I got the Curated Outlast but even that one is not great in PVP because of the Demolitionist perk needing 6 kills to refund full grenade energy.
Saladin just gave me a Claws of the Wolf with Fluted Barrel, Ricochet Rounds, Outlaw and Full Auto with a Range MW that I really want to try out in PVP.
Saladin just gave me a Claws of the Wolf with Fluted Barrel, Ricochet Rounds, Outlaw and Full Auto with a Range MW that I really want to try out in PVP.
They already said in the TWAB that they would have a fix in place.
I use my Frenzy + KC Outlast sometimes. I use my rangefinder + moving target Horror's Least more. They are hard to pull off on the more common, compact maps because they have a relatively high TTK. It's too easy to get out of their line of fire on most maps making them a somewhat poor option for the same reason low ROF pulses and scouts are a poor option. Enemies can get away easier against them than a 390 pulse or a hand cannon.
As for the Claws, give it a try. I personally think Claws is the very worst of the 540s due to the recoil on them. Horrors Least and Outlast can be lasers and it's important because you really want to land most or all crits in order to keep that TTK competitive.
I want to. pre-nerf Grasp was a favourite in D1. Just noticed I have a roll of Claws that might be OK, but am prepared to be disappointed.
Prison of Elders strike is bugged so it doesn't count as Tangled Shore; presumably when testing this their build still had no location restrictions on it like we had for the first few weeks of these so they just loaded up that strike and it worked.
This change gives them a TTK around a bunch of other weapons.
After watching that video, that kinda makes me a little happy they will definitely still be good....hopefully.
Either way, I honestly don't care if they nerfed Magnificent Howl on the gun, I am just bummed they made them 150 from 180. That's the main reason I loved using Luna's is because of the fire rate.
I guess this will starting making my use my poor mans Luna's again.
Lunas and NF will still be #1-#2 in kills statistically. You'll get a still fantastic .8 ttk but with no bloom if we're interpreting correctly. On top of that, you'll be able to 2 crit 1 body unlike any other 150's.
i just cant see them not remaining the dominant weapons on console. MAYBE Ace can now overtake them but I doubt it. because if we look back pre lunas trust was kinda going over ace's and it had a 1s ttk!
So yes, they'll still be the definition of pinnacle weapons.
in fact i dont see why anybody would run any other 150 since you'll get the same ttk but with bloom. but i guess maybe the reason would be, more range?
i just cant see them not remaining the dominant weapons on console. MAYBE Ace can now overtake them but I doubt it. because if we look back pre lunas trust was kinda going over ace's and it had a 1s ttk!
So yes, they'll still be the definition of pinnacle weapons.
in fact i dont see why anybody would run any other 150 since you'll get the same ttk but with bloom. but i guess maybe the reason would be, more range?
Their optimal TTKs will be much easier to reach than other weapons, which will require more precision hits or kill clip activation to should be the best legendary 150s, full stop. Again, Magnificent Howl will mean they function as a 150 with kill clip always active as long as you hit 2 crits.
unless you're married to energy hand cannons, Service Revolver will be your new weapon to chase.After watching that video, that kinda makes me a little happy they will definitely still be good....hopefully.
Either way, I honestly don't care if they nerfed Magnificent Howl on the gun, I am just bummed they made them 150 from 180. That's the main reason I loved using Luna's is because of the fire rate.
I guess this will starting making my use my poor mans Luna's again.
Ok, thanks for that. I just tried it on 1 quick game on Wormhaven but my team was kicking so much tail that it was mercy ruled in less than 5 minutes. I got a single kill with it in that time and it felt like it shredded pretty quickly but I didn't have enough time to test it properly.
So, I can finally get my Recluse after the Lunas nerf. Fuck that gun, lol
Stupid Bungie Season 2's obsession with Hand Cannons
Stupid Bungie Season 2's obsession with Hand Cannons
They are great on maps with long sight lines and places where there is a little less cover. So basically any map you might use any other pulse on. But I believe 390s like Bygones have a superior TTK if you can get all crits though more recoil as a trade off. Keep playing with it, count your kills each match and see what kind of results you're having. Compare with a good Bygones if you have one.
Like mehr said it's a fun gun. You can always play hero ball. Shark would fit right in with them.
Tminus one hour till end game for me.
Other way around: the 540s kill in .8s with 9 crits, the Bygones in .93 with 5 crits and 2 body shots.
Xur still doesn't have random rolls? it's been 3 weeks.
''we looked into it and it's a bug'' incoming lol
''we looked into it and it's a bug'' incoming lol
Wait, the Lunas nerf is only in June?
Pfffffff
So i won't be getting Recluse because it's tied to this season
Pfffffff
So i won't be getting Recluse because it's tied to this season
Get better with handcannons ?
I don't understand the hate for HC in the Crucible meta. IMO their far more fun to use then just sitting back with a Pulse or a scout. That shit is boring. Destiny is all about mobility that's why HC plus shot guns are so fun. The better HC user should always be at the top of the spectrum.
Looking at Dreamcatcher's ttk spreadsheet it looks like the 540's are more effected by armor than the other types. They can be as quick as .8 or as long as 1.0 depending on the armor stat of the target (all crits, of course). The advantage the other types have is that they will always be a .8 or .93 regardless of the players armor stat since they hit harder per burst.
On paper that shouldn't make the 540's unusable and they should still be, at the very least, competitive. I also want to add that guns with a higher ROF cause a higher flinch factor for the target, at least theoretically, but of course that is nigh on impossible to put a stat value on.
This is correct. Other pulse archetypes are easier to reach their TTKs and less punishing when you don't get crits. Landing body shots with 540s is usually a guaranteed failed 1v1. Gotta get crits with 540s or its gg, so the more laser-like your roll is, the more competitive it will be.
I mean, if that wasn't the case you'd be seeing lots of 540 rpm pulses running around. There's a reason we don't and it's not because they're secret OP or because people don't own them; it's because they don't kill as consistently or as fast as something like Bygones unless the roll is godly and the situation is mostly ideal. I love my god-rolled 540s. I really do. But every time I use them I know I'm usually winning by what feels like death by 1,000 papercuts.
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