Destiny 2: Forsaken |OT4| Royal Whine

Oct 25, 2017
889
I would say that was an interesting first part. Obviously he’s not going to be able to touch on everything at once but that was a good start.

I understand the Well nerf that’s probably coming. I wish it didn’t happen but I understand it. 😭
 

joefro

Member
Jun 5, 2018
293
Louisiana
I can't believe some people were expecting the Director's Cut to have like...patch notes in it? This is for people that want a look inside Bungie and their thought processes on a year of Destiny. You'll get your nerfs and buffs when Shadowkeep launches. I'm sure people will have the same complaints about parts two and three.
 
Dec 2, 2017
2,449
The tracking isn't that aggressive. You can strafe left or right and it won't hit you.
It really depends how close to it you are, it doesn’t track well inside a certain range. I think I need to start GIFing all my attempts at dodging this thing.

There was one time I was on Steppes on Legio’s Folly and the invader was at the trees on the other side of the bank. I’d heard them firing it at my teammates I knew it was coming, saw it was charging, jumped right as it fired.

Damn thing crossed the map, curved up and hit me at the top of my jump.

That scene flashes through my mind every time people talk about it being easy to dodge.
 

Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,644
It is upsetting to see several people here read about the difficulties and costs of game dev discussed briefly by Luke, and then turn around and still accuse them of either incompetence or profess lack of faith in Bungie's ability/will to make the game better - at least on a timescale that pleases. I loathe using the word "entitled," but I'm having trouble thinking of a better term.
yeah i believe them when they say it was a breakneck pace for them. and that's with vicarious visions sharing the workload on opulence.

that said, they utterly failed on the pvp side this year so you can call that whatever you want. i tend to believe it's neglect or if we are being politic, then we'll call it "selective resource management."

in the non-OT thread i pointed out that Luke Smith's claim that they delivered on the calendar they set up was false because there were no crucible maps and modes with every season.
During each Season, all players can expect new rewards to earn, new Crucible maps and modes, improvements to gameplay features, recurring activities, special events, and more.


is it entitled of me to expect each new season to bring the crucible maps and modes they promised back in the June 2018 TWAB which was essentially an ad for the new expansion and season pass? i will wait for director's cut parts 2 and 3 to see what Smith has to say about this and a full retrospective of why it felt sometimes this year like the crucible team simply did not exist. i believe things like the revelry tonic applying to competitive or the lord of wolves dominance were things that never should have happened (or were instead patched out quickly) if the crucible team was more vocal about the integrity of the game mode.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,458
yeah i believe them when they say it was a breakneck pace for them. and that's with vicarious visions sharing the workload on opulence.

that said, they utterly failed on the pvp side this year so you can call that whatever you want. i tend to believe it's neglect or if we are being politic, then we'll call it "selective resource management."

in the non-OT thread i pointed out that Luke Smith's claim that they delivered on the calendar they set up was false because there were no crucible maps and modes with every season.



is it entitled of me to expect each new season to bring the crucible maps and modes they promised back in the June 2018 TWAB which was essentially an ad for the new expansion and season pass? i will wait for director's cut parts 2 and 3 to see what Smith has to say about this and a full retrospective of why it felt sometimes this year like the crucible team simply did not exist. i believe things like the revelry tonic applying to competitive or the lord of wolves dominance were things that never should have happened (or were instead patched out quickly) if the crucible team was more vocal about the integrity of the game mode.
There will always be spurned people in a game with such an audience. I am sorry that PvP players got utterly knocked this year, with really only the Pinnacle weapons to look forward to. I cannot empathize fully, being only casually involved with the Crucible. But your comments are as fair as the ones regarding Gambit problems, amount of content, reactivity to unforeseen consequences, etc. There is truth to all of the complaints.

The issue arises in the attitude. There is a pervasive undertone of "never enough." Some people will be mollified by any change Bungie introduces, while others will still wonder why their issues have not been addressed. What has the Crucible team been up to? Who knows. The real question is - what will it take for them to justify their absence to you and all the others? Revamped Trials? Seperate PvP/PvE balancing? (I pray for this every day) How much change and content is necessary before you will say, "ah, yes. I understand why we were abandoned for a year. This is worth it"? Perhaps nothing will. And if that is the case, then all this conversation contributes is another toxic drop in the ocean of this community's vitriol. That's not to say your voice is unnecessary or unjustified. It's...just tiring. You are free to move on to other games. Bungie is not. You can either trust that your hopes will be eventually fulfilled by the dev that has proven time and time again that they are willing to change, or don't.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,858
It really depends how close to it you are, it doesn’t track well inside a certain range. I think I need to start GIFing all my attempts at dodging this thing.

There was one time I was on Steppes on Legio’s Folly and the invader was at the trees on the other side of the bank. I’d heard them firing it at my teammates I knew it was coming, saw it was charging, jumped right as it fired.

Damn thing crossed the map, curved up and hit me at the top of my jump.

That scene flashes through my mind every time people talk about it being easy to dodge.
When I see a Jotunn user, I make sure I never run into open ground without checking for them. If I see them before they fire, I can almost always duck away from the shot.

Jotunn user for me = time to play sneaky.

I don't find it oppressive.

However, I do find it annoying if a player is being sneaky and popping up every now and then to fire it at people in engagements with other players. From range, if you don't see it coming, you're toast.

So I do get it feeling dumb, but I do think it can be played around.
 

Pandaman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
671
they sold on ongoing service, we paid for it, we didn't get it, we lost existing things and now they're talking about how hard the pass was on their team. Kinda feels like they want us to expect less for our money going into the next release.
 

panecasio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,906
Toronto, ON
Cels I don't think your post is entitled. I do however think that content laid out on a roadmap can change. I want more PVP maps and modes as well. I'm not sure if Breakthrough was considered there (is it free for all, even non-Forsaken owners?) but that's how I read that roadmap.

I also wonder if Trials being pulled from the game had anything to do with Bungie missing the "new maps" bit. Or if they planned new non-Trials maps but had to reallocate resources and cut them.

The other thing is I'm not sure if establishing their independence from Activision shifted their resources and priorities around, to the point where they couldn't deliver the maps and modes.

---

Switching gears to a different topic: I hope we find out about when/if Faction Rallies are going to be reintroduced for Shadowkeep. I need more FWC gear! The dev in me thinks they want to sunset those brands (and related activity) after reading Luke's post about how some activities can't retain relevance when new activities come online. They probably want to focus players (and, by extension, their behaviors with respect to Bounties) on the most current activities and offerings. To that end, Factions seem like a dusty relic from D1 that might not come back. :(
 
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Sky87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
962
Just got back to playing after a really long while and got around 2.2k bright dust. Should I blow that on the cool ship for sale or is it best to save it?
 

SmugAcolyte

Member
Feb 4, 2018
29
There will always be spurned people in a game with such an audience. I am sorry that PvP players got utterly knocked this year, with really only the Pinnacle weapons to look forward to. I cannot empathize fully, being only casually involved with the Crucible. But your comments are as fair as the ones regarding Gambit problems, amount of content, reactivity to unforeseen consequences, etc. There is truth to all of the complaints.

The issue arises in the attitude. There is a pervasive undertone of "never enough." Some people will be mollified by any change Bungie introduces, while others will still wonder why their issues have not been addressed. What has the Crucible team been up to? Who knows. The real question is - what will it take for them to justify their absence to you and all the others? Revamped Trials? Seperate PvP/PvE balancing? (I pray for this every day) How much change and content is necessary before you will say, "ah, yes. I understand why we were abandoned for a year. This is worth it"? Perhaps nothing will. And if that is the case, then all this conversation contributes is another toxic drop in the ocean of this community's vitriol. That's not to say your voice is unnecessary or unjustified. It's...just tiring. You are free to move on to other games. Bungie is not. You can either trust that your hopes will be eventually fulfilled by the dev that has proven time and time again that they are willing to change, or don't.
Yep, the “Bungie needs to make the changes I want them to make before I come back” attitude creates a really negative atmosphere here and shouldn’t be encouraged or tolerated.

On a separate note, paying $35 for Shadowkeep for much less content than we got with Forsaken doesn’t feel good. I feel like the future of D2 is just the hardcore paying more money for less content.

Linking specific purchases (Whisper of the Worm ornaments) to the delivery of future content (Zero Hour) is neat to learn about. But does that kind of relationship with the player base constrain Bungie in the long-term and keep them delivering the same old stuff instead of branching out?

Like, if the Trials ornaments were for sale to keep funding Trials, would them being on sale prevent Bungie from doing what they did in taking it offline to rethink the game mode? What about the faction rally ornaments?

I’m clearly barking up too many trees here and am having a hard time putting down my thoughts into words so I’ll stop.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,458
Yep, the “Bungie needs to make the changes I want them to make before I come back” attitude creates a really negative atmosphere here and shouldn’t be encouraged or tolerated.

On a separate note, paying $35 for Shadowkeep for much less content than we got with Forsaken doesn’t feel good. I feel like the future of D2 is just the hardcore paying more money for less content.

Linking specific purchases (Whisper of the Worm ornaments) to the delivery of future content (Zero Hour) is neat to learn about. But does that kind of relationship with the player base constrain Bungie in the long-term and keep them delivering the same old stuff instead of branching out?

Like, if the Trials ornaments were for sale to keep funding Trials, would them being on sale prevent Bungie from doing what they did in taking it offline to rethink the game mode? What about the faction rally ornaments?

I’m clearly barking up too many trees here and am having a hard time putting down my thoughts into words so I’ll stop.
The way I read that story is this: Outbreak and Whisper were free content. You didn't need the annual passes/expansions to get those weapons. What content is included in the paid content is paid for by itself - additional content is paid for by MTX.
 

matmanx1

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,415
Basically, hand cannons are even far more oppressively OP on PC. Seriously no other primary weapon need even bother existing. The massive range, precision with zero skill and massive hitboxes, flinch, and ttk's they deal are so overtuned. You have no chance, none, with any other weapon type. None. Every other weapon archetype would need massive buffs to compete, the slow feebleness with which scouts or AR's kill is quite sad. The fact Bungie allows this to exist is even sadder.
I regularly beat legendary HC's with my Blast Furnace and sometimes even Last Word users if they try to engage outside of a certain range. One of the best things pulse rifles do is cause a lot of flinch so in that way they are a natural counter to "HC EVERYTHING!". That being said I don't find any primary weapon on the PC to be oppressive and the great majority of my deaths are to 1HKO Special Weapons /Heavy Weapons / Supers or Abilites. Primaries are not the problem and D2 has a fairly slow ttk for primary weapons when compared to something like Call of Duty. It's really not that hard to get behind cover if you start taking damage from a primary assuming you aren't wandering around in the middle of the map like a potato.

Supers, Specials and Heavy though....don't get me started on that.

Why do people keep whinging on the superior PC FOV? At default I dont even notice anything. Am i supposed to turn it up from the default of 85 to get this benefit?
105 for life, baby. What is this 85 you speak of?
 

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
717
So I’ve owned D2 since launch but pretty much never played. If I was gonna try to get in early before the waves of f2p noobs what would I be looking forwards to? What’s the current loop for catching and looting up?
 

Bold One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,750
I'll take on a thousand sharks over the intellectual dishonesty, and outright trolling that gaming side has to offer on Destiny everyday of the week.
 

panecasio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,906
Toronto, ON
So I’ve owned D2 since launch but pretty much never played. If I was gonna try to get in early before the waves of f2p noobs what would I be looking forwards to? What’s the current loop for catching and looting up?
Do you own Forsaken and the Annual Pass? If not, I believe you're capped to Level 30 and won't be able to hit the current Power cap of 750. You also won't have as many sources for Powerful rewards, such as the Menagerie.

So uhh get Forsaken and hop on the grind train. There's almost too much stuff to do every week now, which is awesome!
 

darthbob

Member
Nov 20, 2017
377
Who do I have to pay to get better teammates to matchmake with in PvP?

I'm putting out 40 kills in game, and yet my team loses. In comp, I play against a group of randos who are clearly better than I am, and yet my team is worse than I am. How is that even fair?

God I fucking hate PC PvP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,389
Older posts i missed

Yup, another change that didn't need to happen.

People get excited over Xur but when there's another special event oh no suddenly my schedule just doesn't line up
It felt so natural doing these things on a weekend since i would have the time and my peeps would have the time so i understand that.

But still Its cool that you can do it anytime providing you have people available during those times

Well then just stop playing after those 20 matches. Easy.
If i can get the rest of the medals for Hush then i can take another break like i did after getting 21% Delirium.


Uggh, those cosmo kills..... they take forever.
Yea i'm just at 7% while the main kills is at 75% :(

Then afterwards i realized that i need a 1,000 Cosmo kills

Will get there eventually i guess.


Who do I have to pay to get better teammates to matchmake with in PvP?

I'm putting out 40 kills in game, and yet my team loses. In comp, I play against a group of randos who are clearly better than I am, and yet my team is worse than I am. How is that even fair?

God I fucking hate PC PvP.
Yep that mismatch can be really bad, especially if a stack is involved (against a godly one or allied with a crappy one)

I can imagine how more frustrating it can be if you have scores like that.
 
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Ithaca

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27
I'm glad that the Director's Cut was posted, but how the document kind of flowed from one comment or observation into another without fleshing any of the things out really allows the reader to paint the in-between spaces with, well, whatever they want to see. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with the assessment that the (normal) Menagerie was a great accomplishment for pickup groups. I would like to see more stuff like that going forward. But's it's not explicit. Hopefully by the end of the Director's Cut series they'll lay out their design guidelines for Shadowkeep onward - like 'Every activity below a raid have matchmaking.'

Otherwise, their perspective can be a bit off. Their observation that the Opulent Chalice could be ruined by not having the ONE rune you need is nothing I've experienced or heard. Their Velveeta team might give great feedback on encounter difficulty, but talk about whatever team is evaluating the treadmills of pursuits and bounties. There should be a lot of data to reflect on, and it's directly tied into the AFK behavior that does get complained about in activities.
 

Hawkeye 131

Member
Oct 27, 2017
259
Canada
Not really what I was expecting but whatever.

I genuinely think the VAST majority of problems they have are leftover from Vanilla D2. The decision to drastically reduce player power led to them overcompensating when Forsaken came out. On top of their GLACIALLY slow pace when it comes to sandbox updates and balancing certainly doesn't do them any favours.

Thinking back to launch D2. The 4v4-only PvP, slow recharging supers, weak grenades and melees. The lethargic nut-to-butt team-shot meta they forced down everyone's throats while their senior PvP and Sandbox designers tried to defend their work and convince us it's the best Destiny PvP has ever been. A staggering TWO playlists at launch, static rolls, armour with no perks, no quests, no hidden secrets, collectibles or missions, loss of subclass customization etc...

The list of lost features went on and on and on. It boggles the mind how much depth they sacrificed in the pursuit of accessibility. They made the game shallow, hollow and boring to appease to the most casual of players.

Thankfully we've moved past all that and thanks to their incredible hardwork and determination Forsaken was/is arguably the best expansion they've ever made and the game is in a much better place.

With Shadowkeep on the horizon and going back to the Moon it reminds me how good D1 was. It was far from perfect however, it had a rock solid foundation. I wonder if they just didn't realize how much stuff they actually got right with D1.

That said it's pretty clear that they swung the pendulum too far in the other direction with D2 at release. And by the sounds of what Luke is saying they're still dealing with the effects of the course correction that was Forsaken.

Now, if only we could get someone from the PvP side of things to come forward and let us know what the hell they plan on doing with Crucible.
 

Cooking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,210
I'll take on a thousand sharks over the intellectual dishonesty, and outright trolling that gaming side has to offer on Destiny everyday of the week.
They’re a waste of time. I have seen people in other threads point people towards the OT which tbh is the only good place to talk about destiny on ERA. Otherwise it’s the same shitty memes from 2014
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,790
ahh crucible hate mail





I was using the IB fusion, wizened rebuke
Big mood. That thing is legit since the FR buff. I used one with RF/Under Pressure to get my Titan done.
Console fov is around 55. It's obscene.
I think it's actually 72, which is still about 50% less than what you get on PC.
It is upsetting to see several people here read about the difficulties and costs of game dev discussed briefly by Luke, and then turn around and still accuse them of either incompetence or profess lack of faith in Bungie's ability/will to make the game better - at least on a timescale that pleases. I loathe using the word "entitled," but I'm having trouble thinking of a better term.
Totally this. I wouldn't be surprised if after Shadowkeep launches and Bungie has a good idea of what their revenue looks like as an indie, they might even contract with other studios that take on contract work. In any case, if we have to wait a few months longer for quality of life features so they can have good work/life balance, then that's what they should do.
 
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Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,644
Cels I do however think that content laid out on a roadmap can change. I want more PVP maps and modes as well. I'm not sure if Breakthrough was considered there (is it free for all, even non-Forsaken owners?) but that's how I read that roadmap.
roadmaps can change, of course, but how do you go from promising maps and modes every season to delivering nothing at all and then not explaining why this happened. when bungie knew internally that they were deviating from this plan they should have informed the players so that players weren't getting strung along with expectations of new maps and modes every season.

as i said before, I'll wait to see Parts 2 and 3 from Smith for his explanation on why the crucible went so wrong this year.

as for breakthrough, it was widely panned and they removed it from competitive because people were exploiting the game mode and essentially holding the other team hostage to boost their kd. good times. then we didn't get a new mode after that.

There will always be spurned people in a game with such an audience. I am sorry that PvP players got utterly knocked this year, with really only the Pinnacle weapons to look forward to. I cannot empathize fully, being only casually involved with the Crucible. But your comments are as fair as the ones regarding Gambit problems, amount of content, reactivity to unforeseen consequences, etc. There is truth to all of the complaints.

The issue arises in the attitude. There is a pervasive undertone of "never enough." Some people will be mollified by any change Bungie introduces, while others will still wonder why their issues have not been addressed. What has the Crucible team been up to? Who knows. The real question is - what will it take for them to justify their absence to you and all the others? Revamped Trials? Seperate PvP/PvE balancing? (I pray for this every day) How much change and content is necessary before you will say, "ah, yes. I understand why we were abandoned for a year. This is worth it"? Perhaps nothing will. And if that is the case, then all this conversation contributes is another toxic drop in the ocean of this community's vitriol. That's not to say your voice is unnecessary or unjustified. It's...just tiring. You are free to move on to other games. Bungie is not. You can either trust that your hopes will be eventually fulfilled by the dev that has proven time and time again that they are willing to change, or don't.
luckily pvp is only half the game , so i can whine about how pvp was abandoned while enjoying the pve side of the game. i'm already 100% gonna buy shadowkeep, whether or not PvP picks up.

i can only speak for myself, but how bungie can satisfy me when it comes to pvp is by making feel like they are going to be paying extra-special attention to the crucible In Y3. there's a litany of things they could do, but i won't write a long list. basically i would like to see all the changes and new bells and whistles and feel like "wow they really care about the people who love crucible and are going above and beyond to make up for the past" instead of how i feel now which is ignored and neglected.
 

janoGX

Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,621
Chile
Been playing some PC in prep, just my level 100 guy with green and blue weapons. With Xbox controller cause I'd be really bad with mouse.

Basically, hand cannons are even far more oppressively OP on PC. Seriously no other primary weapon need even bother existing. The massive range, precision with zero skill and massive hitboxes, flinch, and ttk's they deal are so overtuned. You have no chance, none, with any other weapon type. None. Every other weapon archetype would need massive buffs to compete, the slow feebleness with which scouts or AR's kill is quite sad. The fact Bungie allows this to exist is even sadder.

Supers. If you took away Fist the next OP super would be sentinel. Titans have the two best and hunters dont even make the top 5. Next would be stormcaller, then some combination of dawnblade and any of the fire hammer supers. Roaming supers are massively annoying and frequent. Not exactly breaking news there. With hunters it's more like "we know you like hunters, so deal with these shitty supers." from Bungo.

When you get to that middle part of the match or even far worse get backifilled into a stomping already there, and you just get spawn camped with heavy and roaming supers that last so long they often kill you twice, you cant outrun or shoot, it's pretty bad. Where the hell even is Bungo?

Why do people keep whinging on the superior PC FOV? At default I dont even notice anything. Am i supposed to turn it up from the default of 85 to get this benefit?

60 FPS ehh, dont notice.

Overall the console PVP is definitely the superior experience. Hand Cannons less oppressive. You dont have to worry about aimbots.
Stop... Stop... You're gonna make me laugh. I feel bad every time I play on PS4 because the FOV and 30fps combo sucks. I easily lose track of some stuff, meanwhile on PC I keep easy track of every move the enemy does.
 

irishonion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,166
If you didn't like the amount of powerful in game, then stop with the light level increase every season. Its getting old. A light level boost per large expansion(forsaken, shadowkeep) is fine.

Find something else for the players to invest time into.
 

darthbob

Member
Nov 20, 2017
377
Yep that mismatch can be really bad, especially if a stack is involved (against a godly one or allied with a crappy one)

I can imagine how more frustrating it can be if you have scores like that.
It's because of thing dang Revoker quest. I've kinda hit a hard wall at ~2000 glory earned, and every loss is just time wasted. So frustrating, at least progress doesn't go down. :/
 

BIG J

Member
Oct 27, 2017
730
do people use the in-game voice chat on pc? or are people mainly on discord?
talking about matchmaking. rarely find people with mics when soloing.
 

Trakan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,192
With Shadowkeep on the horizon and going back to the Moon it reminds me how good D1 was. It was far from perfect however, it had a rock solid foundation. I wonder if they just didn't realize how much stuff they actually got right with D1.
I agree with this. It's frustrating as Bungie's stance seems to be that something has to be "different" or "improved" upon when some things were fine the way they were.

I think a lot of people would prefer Trials of Osiris and Factions as they existed in D1 over being completely removed from the game as they are now.
 

Vic_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,352
Well I finally got my full set of Legendary Solstice Armor! Opened all of my packages to see what other rolls I could get. Apparently Bungie really wants me to use Fusion Rifles and Handcannons lol. Every piece of armor I got had Fusion Rifle scavenger or Secondary Ammo perks. Some had Hand Cannon Dex too lol. Not a single Heavy Ammo finder perk in the lot.