Destiny 2: Shadowkeep |OT| Moon's Haunted.

Vic_Viper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,599

LaneDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
736
Any tangible benefits to hitting 5500 glory? I'm assuming that's Legend, but don't actually know what it nets a player. Made it up to ~2200 for Recluse (much easier than I was expecting) but have been enjoying the solo comp matches and might keep chipping away it every so often.
 

Trakan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,312
Surrounded + spec is a 40/40% buff to headshot/body shot. Killclip is 33% after the nerf.

iunno, hate it if you want but it's really not trash ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Killing one enemy and reloading is infinitely better than being surrounded by 3 enemies. If you're adding mods to the equation, you can add a minor spec which brings damage to 40% with kill clip just like Surrounded with spec.
 

AlexTrevelyan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
40
I saw that the "recluse is too good in PvE" discussion happened again a few pages back, and I just wanted to chime in with a question. Everyone knows you aren't being forced to use it right? Just use another gun. It's a PvE game, some stuff should be mega strong, that's fun!

The only time people are being "forced" to use it would be worlds first, and that's one day every once in a while. There's tons of really great guns in the energy slot. Do they outperform recluse in its range? No. But it's not a required gun.

We shouldn't be trying to dictate how people enjoy themselves in PvE situations lol
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,652
Any tangible benefits to hitting 5500 glory? I'm assuming that's Legend, but don't actually know what it nets a player. Made it up to ~2200 for Recluse (much easier than I was expecting) but have been enjoying the solo comp matches and might keep chipping away it every so often.
5500 is where you get the not forgotten (the evolved version of Luna's Howl) and the MIDA Catalyst (it only gives it outlaw... exciting). Otherwise no there's really no point. You need to hit 5500 in 3 seasons to get the Unbroken title as well
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,656
It's not harmful nor helpful - that's my point. The 950-960 grind is entirely self contained. The benefit of drop protection is less grind, the benefit of no drop protection is more grind. This makes it entirely optional for people to chase - for those who want the prestige, they engage with the grind. Likely the most hardcore of the hardcore. So, Bungie has reason to make this grind longer because the people who play that much will work on achieving it. For these people, the chase is worthwhile - almost like a title.

It differs from the other things you mentioned because those all have other functions. Resources for MWing armour. God rolls for extra utility and fun. Mods for the same thing. 960 armor? There's no need for anyone to have it fast, so they're not giving it to anyone fast.
I get that Bungie wants this to be a year old affair, and I'm fine with that. They could add drop protection even if it meant cutting down on the number of pinnacle rewards to maintain the average time to 960. The issue isn't about getting to 960 fast it's the annoyance in a system that inherently doesn't offer anything significant even in the fleeting moments you do get an "upgrade". More to the point, the idea that it's superfluous so it doesn't matter if it's awful works as a workaround for an awful system but that's doesn't justify it.

I saw that the "recluse is too good in PvE" discussion happened again a few pages back, and I just wanted to chime in with a question. Everyone knows you aren't being forced to use it right? Just use another gun. It's a PvE game, some stuff should be mega strong, that's fun!

The only time people are being "forced" to use it would be worlds first, and that's one day every once in a while. There's tons of really great guns in the energy slot. Do they outperform recluse in its range? No. But it's not a required gun.

We shouldn't be trying to dictate how people enjoy themselves in PvE situations lol
People will want to use the best loot in a loot game, it's kinda the point of the genre. Also on Bungie's side it presents a problem where one weapon clearly out classes the others. They ran into this problem with Reckoning where they balanced it toward the expectation that everyone would be spamming supers. It's the same with Recluse where they get caught in the power creep problem of trying to outclass it or make encounters with the expectation that players can just delete all minor enemies.
 
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AlexTrevelyan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
40
People will want to use the best loot in a loot game, it's kinda the point of the genre. Also on Bungie's side it presents a problem where one weapon clearly out classes the others. They ran into this problem with Reckoning where they balanced it toward the expectation that everyone would be spamming supers. It's the same with Recluse where they get caught in the power creep problem of trying to outclass it or make encounters with the expectation that players can just delete all minor enemies.
Of course people want to use the strong stuff, and if they want to use recluse, good for them. That doesn't mean everyone is forced to.

The balance changes they made that you're referring to aren't the same as this situation. Exotics that auto-reloaded your guns were essentially required. Exotics that charged your super instantly were often required. Recluse is not required for any content that currently exists in the game.
 
Nov 14, 2017
2,188
imo the problem is solved if both MT and Recluse are made exotics.
MT is perfectly balanced since the auto-reload nerf.
I get that Bungie wants this to be a year old affair, and I'm fine with that. They could add drop protection even if it meant cutting down on the number of pinnacle rewards to maintain the average time to 960. The issue isn't about getting to 960 fast it's the annoyance in a system that inherently doesn't offer anything significant even in the fleeting moments you do get an "upgrade". More to the point, the idea that it's superfluous so it doesn't matter if it's awful works as a workaround for an awful system but that's doesn't justify it.



People will want to use the best loot in a loot game, it's kinda the point of the genre. Also on Bungie's side it presents a problem where one weapon clearly out classes the others. They ran into this problem with Reckoning where they balanced it toward the expectation that everyone would be spamming supers. It's the same with Recluse where they get caught in the power creep problem of trying to outclass it or make encounters with the expectation that players can just delete all minor enemies.
Honestly, the main reason I use recluse so much in PVE right now is because its void and this season has so many Vex. If we were up against Fallen I'd prob be running an arc energy to deal with captain shields.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,656
Of course people want to use the strong stuff, and if they want to use recluse, good for them. That doesn't mean everyone is forced to.

The balance changes they made that you're referring to aren't the same as this situation. Exotics that auto-reloaded your guns were essentially required. Exotics that charged your super instantly were often required. Recluse is not required for any content that currently exists in the game.
It's not as dire but it's still an issue when one weapon is so much better than everything else. It makes the other weapons less appealing.

Is Windigo better than Swarm of the Raven (or other 150 rpm spike GL) now? Why did it change for SK?
Spike Swarm was good because Tractor cannon gave a 50% boost to void weapons instead of 30% to everything else. It's been normalized to 30% all around so Swarm isn't so uniquely powerful.

Also with the reload nerf, auto-reloading holster is much more worthwhile. Add in the sniper buff that makes Izanagi more powerful, grenade launchers are more of an extra source of damage you can use in between reloads instead of the focus before Shadowkeep. I think Wendigo always had more burst damage than other grenade launchers with the 6x explosive light buff but it just fell dramatically after that.
 

LawfulEnder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
125
Of course people want to use the strong stuff, and if they want to use recluse, good for them. That doesn't mean everyone is forced to.

The balance changes they made that you're referring to aren't the same as this situation. Exotics that auto-reloaded your guns were essentially required. Exotics that charged your super instantly were often required. Recluse is not required for any content that currently exists in the game.
Of course it isn't, but it's still far better than any other primary and desperately in need of a balance patch. The issue isn't that you ever have to run Recluse, it's that Recluse is always the best option (and has been for half a year now.)

That said, the inclusion of SMG perks in the Seasonal Artifact and the changes to make 2100 even easier than the already-easy format from last season here strikes me as essentially a declaration of intent, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't nerfed for next season. Though I suppose I said that pre-Shadowkeep too.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,160
My rapid hit/rampage Duke still in the vault, arguably the greatest hand cannon to have ever graced Destiny, collecting dust. Alone. Wondering whatever happened to her boy Fighting Lion. Don't worry, baby. I haven't forgotten about you. One day. One day, I'll bring up outside and get you some sun.
 

Kyrios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,011
My rapid hit/rampage Duke still in the vault, arguably the greatest hand cannon to have ever graced Destiny, collecting dust. Alone. Wondering whatever happened to her boy Fighting Lion. Don't worry, baby. I haven't forgotten about you. One day. One day, I'll bring up outside and get you some sun.
Just imagining you opening your vault and it's just that gun lol
 

LaneDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
736
5500 is where you get the not forgotten (the evolved version of Luna's Howl) and the MIDA Catalyst (it only gives it outlaw... exciting). Otherwise no there's really no point. You need to hit 5500 in 3 seasons to get the Unbroken title as well
Yes, you get access to the best PvP hand cannon in the game in the energy slot.
Gotcha, thanks y'all. Haven't ever really gotten too attached to hand cannons in PVP, but good to know regardless.
 

jet1911

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,261
If i look at that graph, it seems to me like its saying:
If you want to use a smg on energy, you Pick Recluse, or if you dont have that, second choice is Riskrunner.
The Exotic is the secondary choice, and that shouldnt be the case.
It seems like Bungie is trying to give options for other SMGs, with the new Gambit one or giving a specific quest that gives Riskrunner plus catalyst, but as long as Recluse is so much better it wont change imo.
If Exotics could equip artefact mods I'd use them a lot more.