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Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,022

LaneDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,591
Any tangible benefits to hitting 5500 glory? I'm assuming that's Legend, but don't actually know what it nets a player. Made it up to ~2200 for Recluse (much easier than I was expecting) but have been enjoying the solo comp matches and might keep chipping away it every so often.
 

Trakan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,201
Surrounded + spec is a 40/40% buff to headshot/body shot. Killclip is 33% after the nerf.

iunno, hate it if you want but it's really not trash ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Killing one enemy and reloading is infinitely better than being surrounded by 3 enemies. If you're adding mods to the equation, you can add a minor spec which brings damage to 40% with kill clip just like Surrounded with spec.
 

AlexTrevelyan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
454
I saw that the "recluse is too good in PvE" discussion happened again a few pages back, and I just wanted to chime in with a question. Everyone knows you aren't being forced to use it right? Just use another gun. It's a PvE game, some stuff should be mega strong, that's fun!

The only time people are being "forced" to use it would be worlds first, and that's one day every once in a while. There's tons of really great guns in the energy slot. Do they outperform recluse in its range? No. But it's not a required gun.

We shouldn't be trying to dictate how people enjoy themselves in PvE situations lol
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,800
Any tangible benefits to hitting 5500 glory? I'm assuming that's Legend, but don't actually know what it nets a player. Made it up to ~2200 for Recluse (much easier than I was expecting) but have been enjoying the solo comp matches and might keep chipping away it every so often.

5500 is where you get the not forgotten (the evolved version of Luna's Howl) and the MIDA Catalyst (it only gives it outlaw... exciting). Otherwise no there's really no point. You need to hit 5500 in 3 seasons to get the Unbroken title as well
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Any tangible benefits to hitting 5500 glory? I'm assuming that's Legend, but don't actually know what it nets a player. Made it up to ~2200 for Recluse (much easier than I was expecting) but have been enjoying the solo comp matches and might keep chipping away it every so often.
Yes, you get access to the best PvP hand cannon in the game in the energy slot.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,151
It's not harmful nor helpful - that's my point. The 950-960 grind is entirely self contained. The benefit of drop protection is less grind, the benefit of no drop protection is more grind. This makes it entirely optional for people to chase - for those who want the prestige, they engage with the grind. Likely the most hardcore of the hardcore. So, Bungie has reason to make this grind longer because the people who play that much will work on achieving it. For these people, the chase is worthwhile - almost like a title.

It differs from the other things you mentioned because those all have other functions. Resources for MWing armour. God rolls for extra utility and fun. Mods for the same thing. 960 armor? There's no need for anyone to have it fast, so they're not giving it to anyone fast.

I get that Bungie wants this to be a year old affair, and I'm fine with that. They could add drop protection even if it meant cutting down on the number of pinnacle rewards to maintain the average time to 960. The issue isn't about getting to 960 fast it's the annoyance in a system that inherently doesn't offer anything significant even in the fleeting moments you do get an "upgrade". More to the point, the idea that it's superfluous so it doesn't matter if it's awful works as a workaround for an awful system but that's doesn't justify it.

I saw that the "recluse is too good in PvE" discussion happened again a few pages back, and I just wanted to chime in with a question. Everyone knows you aren't being forced to use it right? Just use another gun. It's a PvE game, some stuff should be mega strong, that's fun!

The only time people are being "forced" to use it would be worlds first, and that's one day every once in a while. There's tons of really great guns in the energy slot. Do they outperform recluse in its range? No. But it's not a required gun.

We shouldn't be trying to dictate how people enjoy themselves in PvE situations lol

People will want to use the best loot in a loot game, it's kinda the point of the genre. Also on Bungie's side it presents a problem where one weapon clearly out classes the others. They ran into this problem with Reckoning where they balanced it toward the expectation that everyone would be spamming supers. It's the same with Recluse where they get caught in the power creep problem of trying to outclass it or make encounters with the expectation that players can just delete all minor enemies.
 
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AlexTrevelyan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
454
People will want to use the best loot in a loot game, it's kinda the point of the genre. Also on Bungie's side it presents a problem where one weapon clearly out classes the others. They ran into this problem with Reckoning where they balanced it toward the expectation that everyone would be spamming supers. It's the same with Recluse where they get caught in the power creep problem of trying to outclass it or make encounters with the expectation that players can just delete all minor enemies.

Of course people want to use the strong stuff, and if they want to use recluse, good for them. That doesn't mean everyone is forced to.

The balance changes they made that you're referring to aren't the same as this situation. Exotics that auto-reloaded your guns were essentially required. Exotics that charged your super instantly were often required. Recluse is not required for any content that currently exists in the game.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
imo the problem is solved if both MT and Recluse are made exotics.
MT is perfectly balanced since the auto-reload nerf.
I get that Bungie wants this to be a year old affair, and I'm fine with that. They could add drop protection even if it meant cutting down on the number of pinnacle rewards to maintain the average time to 960. The issue isn't about getting to 960 fast it's the annoyance in a system that inherently doesn't offer anything significant even in the fleeting moments you do get an "upgrade". More to the point, the idea that it's superfluous so it doesn't matter if it's awful works as a workaround for an awful system but that's doesn't justify it.



People will want to use the best loot in a loot game, it's kinda the point of the genre. Also on Bungie's side it presents a problem where one weapon clearly out classes the others. They ran into this problem with Reckoning where they balanced it toward the expectation that everyone would be spamming supers. It's the same with Recluse where they get caught in the power creep problem of trying to outclass it or make encounters with the expectation that players can just delete all minor enemies.
Honestly, the main reason I use recluse so much in PVE right now is because its void and this season has so many Vex. If we were up against Fallen I'd prob be running an arc energy to deal with captain shields.
 

MillionStabs

Member
Jan 11, 2018
511
What power level is recommended to start raids? I'm 920 right now and wanna make sure I'm not dragging when I do my first raid
 

hurlex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,142
Is Windigo better than Swarm of the Raven (or other 150 rpm spike GL) now? Why did it change for SK?
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,151
Of course people want to use the strong stuff, and if they want to use recluse, good for them. That doesn't mean everyone is forced to.

The balance changes they made that you're referring to aren't the same as this situation. Exotics that auto-reloaded your guns were essentially required. Exotics that charged your super instantly were often required. Recluse is not required for any content that currently exists in the game.

It's not as dire but it's still an issue when one weapon is so much better than everything else. It makes the other weapons less appealing.

Is Windigo better than Swarm of the Raven (or other 150 rpm spike GL) now? Why did it change for SK?

Spike Swarm was good because Tractor cannon gave a 50% boost to void weapons instead of 30% to everything else. It's been normalized to 30% all around so Swarm isn't so uniquely powerful.

Also with the reload nerf, auto-reloading holster is much more worthwhile. Add in the sniper buff that makes Izanagi more powerful, grenade launchers are more of an extra source of damage you can use in between reloads instead of the focus before Shadowkeep. I think Wendigo always had more burst damage than other grenade launchers with the 6x explosive light buff but it just fell dramatically after that.
 

LawfulEnder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
495
Of course people want to use the strong stuff, and if they want to use recluse, good for them. That doesn't mean everyone is forced to.

The balance changes they made that you're referring to aren't the same as this situation. Exotics that auto-reloaded your guns were essentially required. Exotics that charged your super instantly were often required. Recluse is not required for any content that currently exists in the game.

Of course it isn't, but it's still far better than any other primary and desperately in need of a balance patch. The issue isn't that you ever have to run Recluse, it's that Recluse is always the best option (and has been for half a year now.)

That said, the inclusion of SMG perks in the Seasonal Artifact and the changes to make 2100 even easier than the already-easy format from last season here strikes me as essentially a declaration of intent, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't nerfed for next season. Though I suppose I said that pre-Shadowkeep too.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
My rapid hit/rampage Duke still in the vault, arguably the greatest hand cannon to have ever graced Destiny, collecting dust. Alone. Wondering whatever happened to her boy Fighting Lion. Don't worry, baby. I haven't forgotten about you. One day. One day, I'll bring up outside and get you some sun.
 

JaegerDeus

Banned
Jan 25, 2018
647
I know the Vex Offensive event is going to end after this season, but the Garden of Salvation raid is going to stay, right?
 

Kyrios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,592
My rapid hit/rampage Duke still in the vault, arguably the greatest hand cannon to have ever graced Destiny, collecting dust. Alone. Wondering whatever happened to her boy Fighting Lion. Don't worry, baby. I haven't forgotten about you. One day. One day, I'll bring up outside and get you some sun.

Just imagining you opening your vault and it's just that gun lol
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,412
Germany
I know the Vex Offensive event is going to end after this season, but the Garden of Salvation raid is going to stay, right?
Everything that is part of Shadowkeep the expansion,stays forever.
Everything that is part of the Season of Undying will end.

Note: "everything" does not mean "absolute everything" cause how could we know?
 

LaneDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,591
5500 is where you get the not forgotten (the evolved version of Luna's Howl) and the MIDA Catalyst (it only gives it outlaw... exciting). Otherwise no there's really no point. You need to hit 5500 in 3 seasons to get the Unbroken title as well
Yes, you get access to the best PvP hand cannon in the game in the energy slot.

Gotcha, thanks y'all. Haven't ever really gotten too attached to hand cannons in PVP, but good to know regardless.
 

JaegerDeus

Banned
Jan 25, 2018
647
I'd take a team of guys rushing with Recluses over a team of losers hanging back and sniping with Revoker any day.
 

ShapeDePapa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,936
If i look at that graph, it seems to me like its saying:
If you want to use a smg on energy, you Pick Recluse, or if you dont have that, second choice is Riskrunner.
The Exotic is the secondary choice, and that shouldnt be the case.
It seems like Bungie is trying to give options for other SMGs, with the new Gambit one or giving a specific quest that gives Riskrunner plus catalyst, but as long as Recluse is so much better it wont change imo.

If Exotics could equip artefact mods I'd use them a lot more.
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
I wish we had a little more story each week than we are getting with the Eris quest. Even in text form would be better.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
We have it as is because it's a sort of meta-reward; a reward that offers nothing but itself. Bungie has had to walk back similar systems because those rewards were tied to other things - namely, access to higher level activities. Like, getting to 310 to do Heroic King's Fall. If you were constantly getting minimal upgrades in the same slot, it would delay you from being raid level for the hardest raid. Now, 960 offers nothing but itself. So, for the same reason that there's no point to NOT offering drop protection, neither is there any point TO offering drop protection. As it serves as a way of extending a grind without being harmful to any other system in the game, I think it's justifiable to remain as is.
The problem is that if you can do the pinnacles every week and still not get to 960 (as looks likely), it removes the incentive to do it. I'm going midcore for at least this season so I'm not super bothered, but the fact that I've had 6 energy pinnacles this week pretty much kills my motivation to even try for it on one character.

The solution is to have be slow, but directed. Either have dupe protection so every pinnacle is an upgrade on slot or let us pick the slot. That means there's a solid incentive to log in every week and do pinnacles on at least one character for people who care about that number.
 

Buttchin-n-Bones

Actually knows the TOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,617
The problem is that if you can do the pinnacles every week and still not get to 960 (as looks likely), it removes the incentive to do it. I'm going midcore for at least this season so I'm not super bothered, but the fact that I've had 6 energy pinnacles this week pretty much kills my motivation to even try for it on one character.

The solution is to have be slow, but directed. Either have dupe protection so every pinnacle is an upgrade on slot or let us pick the slot. That means there's a solid incentive to log in every week and do pinnacles on at least one character for people who care about that number.
Honestly, if the frustration of the pinnacle grind is only not worth it to an individual because there's no dupe protection, then I sincerely doubt that individual would've been seriously chasing the pinnacles in the first place.

Like I've been saying, if the frustrating grind was for a tangible reward, then people should be given ameliorative protections so that they're not just rolling the dice forever. But 960 is not a tangible reward, and it is clearly not intended to be a targeted chase. You log in every week to do the raid for the gear, the mods, and for fun - and boy it'd sure be nice to fill out your last slot for the next level. Having a mindset other than this just sounds like a recipe for burnout and frustration
 

edgefusion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,862
Randy's obtained! Goodbye Crucible, until next season! No more 1 hit ko's, no more kills not registering until after I'm dead, no more shooting through walls, no more rollercoaster matchmaking. I'm freeeeeee! \o/
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I'll give it a shot, working on the Jade Rabbit catalyst at the moment too though, because might as well, which is a gun I'm not a big fan of to begin, which probably doesn't help the situation (though it's much better than I gave it credit for, I finally get those who sings it's praise), a gun archetype I've barely ever used might be just what I need for the second half of the kills. I'll have to check the roll I have though, I think it's good, but it's been in my Vault since like week 2 of Forsaken, so no clue what it has.

Only use it at long range. If you do, it slays. Anything else Jade Rabbit really suffers.
 

AlexTrevelyan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
454
It's not as dire but it's still an issue when one weapon is so much better than everything else. It makes the other weapons less appealing.

I understand what you're saying, but if Recluse was deleted from the game tomorrow the other weapons aren't suddenly more appealing, they're just the ones you have to use now. Everyone will just use pulse rifles/hand cannons like they were before recluse. Its not like some wide open meta will emerge. Scout rifles/auto rifles/bows/every other smg still mostly suck in PvE.

Of course it isn't, but it's still far better than any other primary and desperately in need of a balance patch. The issue isn't that you ever have to run Recluse, it's that Recluse is always the best option (and has been for half a year now.)

That said, the inclusion of SMG perks in the Seasonal Artifact and the changes to make 2100 even easier than the already-easy format from last season here strikes me as essentially a declaration of intent, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't nerfed for next season. Though I suppose I said that pre-Shadowkeep too.

I don't really know what platforms people play on, but I'd argue Recluse is always the best option on PC since guns having no recoil. On console its only better in activities you're able to stay within five feet of everything you're fighting. That problem is going to repeat with other guns in the future if controller and m/kb continue to be playing a different game, without different balancing.
 
Jan 4, 2018
4,016
I'm really struggling in Crucible all of a sudden. I'm 1W - 5L for the day. I started at 3300 today and now I'm sitting at 3255.

Any loadout suggestions? I'm currently running Blast Furnace, Wishbringer, and Fine Memorial. I used to rely on my Blast Furnace quite a bit but lately I've found that I'm losing most long range engagements.
 

BlakeofT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
921
I'm really struggling in Crucible all of a sudden. I'm 1W - 5L for the day. I started at 3300 today and now I'm sitting at 3255.

Any loadout suggestions? I'm currently running Blast Furnace, Wishbringer, and Fine Memorial. I used to rely on my Blast Furnace quite a bit but lately I've found that I'm losing most long range engagements.
Swap to hammerhead if you have it, preferably with backup mag and or extended mag.

Are you losing to sniper rifles or scout rifles? If it's the latter, switch to a hand cannon and get closer. If it's the former, I dunno because a good sniper can one hit you at any range consistently. I truly hate it.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
I'm really struggling in Crucible all of a sudden. I'm 1W - 5L for the day. I started at 3300 today and now I'm sitting at 3255.

Any loadout suggestions? I'm currently running Blast Furnace, Wishbringer, and Fine Memorial. I used to rely on my Blast Furnace quite a bit but lately I've found that I'm losing most long range engagements.

Primary:
1. Halfdan-d - High impact auto. Super duper range. Arguably the deadliest weapon ever made.
2. Bygones - It's a pulse. That is good.
3. Recluse - If you're using Mountaintop as as Birdlock of doom. If not, ignore.
4. Luna's Howl - Because you want NF anyway without paying for it.
5. A rapid fire HC - If you didn't buy Lunas and you're on console.
6. An adaptive or lightweight HC - If you didn't buy Lunas and you're on PC.

Special:
1. Mountaintop - It's good. If you can hit people on impact. Just jump in the air.
2. Mindbender's Ambition - The only shotgun worth using.
3. Dust Rock Blues - For when you don't have the only shotgun worth using.
4. Erentil or Wizened Rebuke - For when you've held up your L for too long and just wanna get this over with.
5. A rapid fire sniper rifle - Pick one. Doesn't really matter which.

Heavy:
1. Deathbringer - Sometimes it's really good. Sometimes it really sucks. Test your luck.
2. Truth - Ha ha.
3. Wardcliff Coil - HA HA.
4. Hammerhead - If you suck with rockets for whatever reason. This is also the only good MG in the game if you're wondering.
 
Jan 4, 2018
4,016
Swap to hammerhead if you have it, preferably with backup mag and or extended mag.

Are you losing to sniper rifles or scout rifles? If it's the latter, switch to a hand cannon and get closer. If it's the former, I dunno because a good sniper can one hit you at any range consistently. I truly hate it.

Losing pretty much any ranged encounter be it against hand cannons, scouts, other pulses, or snipers. I do have Hammerhead, I threw it on an alt character to bump their power but I'll swap back.


Primary:
1. Halfdan-d - High impact auto. Super duper range. Arguably the deadliest weapon ever made.
2. Bygones - It's a pulse. That is good.
3. Recluse - If you're using Mountaintop as as Birdlock of doom. If not, ignore.
4. Luna's Howl - Because you want NF anyway without paying for it.
5. A rapid fire HC - If you didn't buy Lunas and you're on console.
6. An adaptive or lightweight HC - If you didn't buy Lunas and you're on PC.

Special:
1. Mountaintop - It's good. If you can hit people on impact. Just jump in the air.
2. Mindbender's Ambition - The only shotgun worth using.
3. Dust Rock Blues - For when you don't have the only shotgun worth using.
4. Erentil - For when you've held up your L for too long and just wanna get this over with.
5. A rapid fire sniper rifle - Pick one. Doesn't really matter which.

Heavy:
1. Deathbringer - Sometimes it's really good. Sometimes it really sucks. Test your luck.
2. Truth - Ha ha.
3. Wardcliff Coil - HA HA.
4. Hammerhead - If you suck with rockets for whatever reason.

I'll try running with Ace of Spades, Erentil, and Hammerhead for a few matches and see how the shakeup feels. Would you recommend the Pluperfect as a solid high impact auto substitute for Halfdan-D?
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,169
The problem is that if you can do the pinnacles every week and still not get to 960 (as looks likely), it removes the incentive to do it. I'm going midcore for at least this season so I'm not super bothered, but the fact that I've had 6 energy pinnacles this week pretty much kills my motivation to even try for it on one character.

The solution is to have be slow, but directed. Either have dupe protection so every pinnacle is an upgrade on slot or let us pick the slot. That means there's a solid incentive to log in every week and do pinnacles on at least one character for people who care about that number.

Midcore has always been the best way to play Destiny - if you don't sweat any of the chases and just play the way you want to (without feeling pressure to put in 3x the time/effort to get everything) you'll be happier and less burnt out in the long run.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Losing pretty much any ranged encounter be it against hand cannons, scouts, other pulses, or snipers. I do have Hammerhead, I threw it on an alt character to bump their power but I'll swap back.




I'll try running with Ace of Spades, Erentil, and Hammerhead for a few matches and see how the shakeup feels. Would you recommend the Pluperfect as a solid high impact auto substitute for Halfdan-D?

I gueeeeeeess you could substitute it.
 

CorpseLight

Member
Nov 3, 2018
7,666
Primary:
1. Halfdan-d - High impact auto. Super duper range. Arguably the deadliest weapon ever made.
2. Bygones - It's a pulse. That is good.
3. Recluse - If you're using Mountaintop as as Birdlock of doom. If not, ignore.
4. Luna's Howl - Because you want NF anyway without paying for it.
5. A rapid fire HC - If you didn't buy Lunas and you're on console.
6. An adaptive or lightweight HC - If you didn't buy Lunas and you're on PC.

Special:
1. Mountaintop - It's good. If you can hit people on impact. Just jump in the air.
2. Mindbender's Ambition - The only shotgun worth using.
3. Dust Rock Blues - For when you don't have the only shotgun worth using.
4. Erentil or Wizened Rebuke - For when you've held up your L for too long and just wanna get this over with.
5. A rapid fire sniper rifle - Pick one. Doesn't really matter which.

Heavy:
1. Deathbringer - Sometimes it's really good. Sometimes it really sucks. Test your luck.
2. Truth - Ha ha.
3. Wardcliff Coil - HA HA.
4. Hammerhead - If you suck with rockets for whatever reason. This is also the only good MG in the game if you're wondering.

You seem like the auto rifle authority round these parts. In your opinion, whats the better rifle, Halfdan or Pluperfect?
 
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