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Destiny 2 Shadowkeep Reviews thread

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,096
Canada
Comparing content in a full fledged MMO with years of content, to a FPS that has MMO-like tendencies is a weird flex.

Bungie only recently started throwing around terms like "MMO". I believe, if i'm not mistaken, this is essentially the new "start" of the game. Check back in a few years.
Destiny has been around for five years at this point, they've had more than enough time to figure this out by now.
 

Mr_DyZ

Member
Jun 12, 2019
306
Destiny has been around for five years at this point, they've had more than enough time to figure this out by now.

And like I said, only recently have Bungie began slinging around the term "MMO". Destiny 1 really has no bearing here. If Destiny were an MMO franchise, all Destiny 1 content would be housed inside the platform.
 

Agent 47

Member
Jun 24, 2018
1,497
I have to agree with these early assessments. The Shadoekeep campaign is way too short and the endgame activity is more barebones than the Managarie. It's good to play more Destiny though and I'm looking forward to how the game changes throughout the season.
 

Komo

Member
Jan 3, 2019
3,696
FFXIV Shadowbringers is a GaaS and yet its starter package was feature-filled and had enough content to be worth the money even before patches.
I understand that but this is about Destiny, not FFXIV. Bungie doesn't have the sub model + expansion price, to back them, and to boot the content pipeline is wildly different compared to FFXIV so it's take alot longer to create a expansion for Destiny then it would FFXIV, and the graphical quality is a large part of that.

Not sure why you're flexing the content of a MMO's DLC to a game which in all senses is only fully starting to be an MMO in that sense.

I mean that's sorta why Blizzard can do massive maps and large areas, because the game doesn't have to look as good as Destiny, same goes with FFXIV.

A lot goes into these, and like many others have said Shadowkeep isn't a single drop and it's done it's supposed to be a living story dlc, and it will complete it'self throughout the year. Not just at drop.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,905
I'm guessing the reviews don't include the new raid, or Vex offensive, or the new dungeon, or exotic quests? If so, the reviews are spot on for what's left.
 

jman4371

Member
Oct 25, 2017
252
While I understand complaints with the campaign, I loved the reworked moon and enemies. I feel like between everything that happened with Bungie this year (breaking with Acti, restructuring to support, etc...), they delivered a good piece of content. Plus, it was this as well as New Light, Steam version, going F2P, cross saves, Stadia version, Armor 2.0, and more. Considering this was all outputted by Bungie and not any Activision support studios this time, I’m honestly impressed. Can’t wait to see how things evolve through the seasons!
 

Keikaku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,230
It never ceases to amaze me how so many devs can create so little content. In D1 their excuse was the engine, what is it now, the migration?
 

Agent 47

Member
Jun 24, 2018
1,497
It never ceases to amaze me how so many devs can create so little content. In D1 their excuse was the engine, what is it now, the migration?
Its still the same engine so still the same problems. But yeh it's a huge studio and they really manage to put out so little, it's impressive!
 

LAA

Member
Oct 28, 2017
626
Yeah pretty much agree with criticisms.
I will no doubt play it a ton (already have been), and it is a brave new step for Destiny in a few ways, however some steps have been made backwards to me.
Methods to obtain powerful gear now seem not as clear now and no longer seem to refresh every day? I used to like that you had a reason to go on every day, now with it only happening weekly, I dont think there is any reason to go on unless you have aims beyond that.
The shadowkeep campaign as well is shorter than I hoped and really just felt like a big tease for the future rather than offering many answers.
This is more of a suspicion, but I suspect the odds for eververse engram giving exotic items has gone down. Also the fact you get a lot less engrams as you no longer get one for levelling up now. I know it's to support the f2p side, but it's a shame I'm seeing a lot less in terms of cosmetics now. It may have been luck but I found I got a lot of exotic items previously while so far I've got nothing of particular interest. That and the store itself seems steep in pricing for silver items and the dust items seem very scarce and only refreshes weekly.
Not a problem that originated from shadow keep itself, but introduces more concerns. It seems gear obtained from the season pass cant be regained from collections because of random perks, which really shouldnt be a thing anyway. Just give fixed perks. I think the armour can be obtained from vex offensive now but not sure for everything else.
It does bring a lot of long lasting positives too though. Cross save finally. Armour 2.0 system. Artifact. It also brings the season levels, which is it first exposure to a battle pass system, which I am enjoying so far, but I am a little sceptical, going well so far though. Mod system is good too. Some QoL changes to have some things like forges/dungeons on the map. The artifact helps with offering mods, makes playing in general have a reward even if it's just helping to level it up. Also helps to just overcome the difficult challenges that bit more.
Even the f2p side I feel is a positive addition atm.

So yeah I think it's made some brave cool steps, but feels to have made some steps backwards to which I hope they can refine more.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,940
I'd give it an 8/10 for Armour 2.0, comp solo q, and the moon patrol alone.

Hell maybe even a 9 if I'm honest. It feels like a great expac so far and I don't see the return to the moon as a negative thing.
 

Bonezz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
284
Pennsylvania
To me the way they handled the story is kind of ridiculous and felt like you read 1/4th a book and it just stopped. Transmog was also a huge letdown since it's tied to Eververse gear. Not to mention the moon playable area being a pretty much copy / paste.
 

Kadath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
310
The game now is better than it has ever been, so I'm still fine with it. But buying Shadowkeep definitely feels like an extremely poor value for money.
If you are a veteran player with eyes set solely on the newest content and the race to the higher level, sure. Destiny 2 is in a decent place.

But the recent changes utterly destroyed all legacy content, including all the good Forsaken did. That's two full years of content down the drain for a game that isn't exactly rich and diverse. All legacy campaigns are now too easy to be fun to play, they've gutted the story, removed all exotic rewards. The level scaling was only implemented for new content, all the stuff up and including Forsaken has no scaling, the strikes have no scaling.

Destiny 2 would be in a good place if only they didn't destroy two years of content just to sell this small piece of expansion. Veteran players don't even notice how all legacy content was downgraded:
 

SmartWaffles

Member
Nov 15, 2017
3,084
7-7.5 for main story and New Light is what I would put in as well. Some aspects of the new introductory systems are straight bad and the story surely won't resonate with reviewers who are not into Destiny's lore.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
And like I said, only recently have Bungie began slinging around the term "MMO". Destiny 1 really has no bearing here. If Destiny were an MMO franchise, all Destiny 1 content would be housed inside the platform.
They didn’t throw it around because they knew that their offering would look terrible in that context. They also used to have Activision actively trying to advertise the game to CoD-bros rather than MMO nerds.

Destiny has always been structured like an MMO though, and it has always failed to live up to the expectations that come along with games like that.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,940
There is not a small amount of content here... the updates to pvp and armour 2.0 substantial on their own...
 
May 10, 2019
179
I don't understand your question.

If an exotic is available in vanilla Destiny 2 you can still get it. If it was an exotic that was in Forsaken - you need to purchase Forsaken.
I see, thank you. I had read this in the other Destiny 2 thread here and just wanted to clarify the bolded.


They also totally changed how the campaign structures work.
You just click story missions on the map and it loads you in. No more "run to marker on map and start mission".

They also removed all the campaign rewards, like exotics and such.

Bungie is basically moving away from any of the "legacy" stuff which is: D2 Vanilla, Curse of Osiris, Warmind and Forsaken
The story moved past them and they are now just old things they apparently don't really care about whether you do them or not and which you will never experience the same way that people who were there on launch did.
 

Hikari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,497
Elysium
they definitely removed legacy exotics. My friend didn’t get wormgod for completing warmind.

Xur can still sell them and you can get them as drops but Riskrunner is a quest now. I think it’s because Bungie wants to forget things like the red war ever happened. They specifically set up Shadowkeep to get to the point in the story kinda like how forsaken is kinda a new thing entirely.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,642
I see, thank you. I had read this in the other Destiny 2 thread here and just wanted to clarify the bolded.
In the original D2 campaign there is a part where you have a choice of 1 from 3 exotics. The campaign is still the same but that gift had been removed. There is now a new quick mission that gives you Riskrunner as a reward. Riskrunner was one of those three choices.

Nothing else from vanilla Destiny is off limits from you. Some exotics are obtained in a quest, some are RNG drops.
 

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
3,328
To me the way they handled the story is kind of ridiculous and felt like you read 1/4th a book and it just stopped. Transmog was also a huge letdown since it's tied to Eververse gear. Not to mention the moon playable area being a pretty much copy / paste.
1) the narrative is going to be ongoing throughout the year. The last mission in the main Shadowkeep string is just to get things going.
2) ornaments being this limited is, sadly, ... sad. A bit. I'm fine that some items are just ornaments, because it means I can just use that look once I find gear I'm keeping forever.
3) The Moon being copy/paste is incredibly off base. They redid the lighting and some textures. The underground areas have mostly been the same (there are still a ton of changes around it) but the surface has had old areas expanded and changed and also added an entire section with different events. Plus they repurposed and changed an old crucible map everyone hated to be part of a patrol area (and it works well). it's absolutely, positively not a copy/paste job.
 

inguef

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
12,860
If I didn’t play D2 since the first month of launch, how much fomo should I be experiencing regarding missed event exclusive items, etc?
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,836
Great expansion. Love all the changes, can't wait to see where the story goes. They were pointed in their messaging not to expect another Forsaken type campaign, but apparently nobody bothers to read.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,005
1) the narrative is going to be ongoing throughout the year. The last mission in the main Shadowkeep string is just to get things going.
2) ornaments being this limited is, sadly, ... sad. A bit. I'm fine that some items are just ornaments, because it means I can just use that look once I find gear I'm keeping forever.
3) The Moon being copy/paste is incredibly off base. They redid the lighting and some textures. The underground areas have mostly been the same (there are still a ton of changes around it) but the surface has had old areas expanded and changed and also added an entire section with different events. Plus they repurposed and changed an old crucible map everyone hated to be part of a patrol area (and it works well). it's absolutely, positively not a copy/paste job.
Having the story throughout the year isn’t really an excuse for the story currently in to be unsatisfying and feeling unfinished.
 

Liam1884

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,133
Not sure why people are questioning why reviews are hitting now. Bungie is charging money for the expansion right now, not three weeks down the line. It gets reviewed now.
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,729
The odd thing about Destiny, and the way you have to approach it, is that it's not a game about leveling or getting stronger. You can now do 90% of content at the base level, and getting higher levels after that only unlocks late/end-game content. You still do quests for gear, but it's the specific equipment that's important, not its light level. Light level only matters for end-game content (i.e. nightfalls, raids). For everything else, it's meaningless because the damage all gets normalized anyways.

The best way to casually play it is just do what feels fun to you. If you have a quest/bounty that you can grind out while you do this activity, then go for it. But it's completely unnecessary.
 
Feb 21, 2019
832
Seems about right...Im a fan, so I enjoyed it, but it really does nothing to win anyone else over that isn't already a fan of Destiny.
 

Ramala

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,645
Destiny 2 as a game is in a great place right now. The F2P New Light package is just mind blowing to me.

I’m enjoying Shadowkeep but I agree it’s content light. I’m glad they threw in the Season Pass for free.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,382
And like I said, only recently have Bungie began slinging around the term "MMO". Destiny 1 really has no bearing here. If Destiny were an MMO franchise, all Destiny 1 content would be housed inside the platform.
But really they haven't changed how they act or produce content since the game launched.

It's always been an MMO-esque franchise. They are following a very similar path of content to D1, with the introduction of the seasonal stuff now being a thing.

I don't see how you can say it only recently started being an MMO franchise because Bungie said so. It's always been one, it's blatantly obvious.
 

Keikaku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,230
Its still the same engine so still the same problems. But yeh it's a huge studio and they really manage to put out so little, it's impressive!
The same issues that moving some bush takes hours to update? I thought they fixed that with D2?
They're already focusing on D3, is my guess.
Could be but a studio that has 1000 employees should pump out numbered sequels every year and meaty expansions at least every 6 months. Or maybe I don't know jack shit about game development lol.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,005
They literally talk about each season ramping up the story and stakes. The Forsaken Story with the dreaming city loop took weeks.
And that wasn’t really satisfying? Look where it has currently led us, nowhere. We are still waiting for those plot threads to actually be resolved. As much as I love the lore I think they have done a poor job on doing anything really compelling in game. Bungie has absolutely not proven to me that I should have any faith in their story telling.
 

Warnen

Member
I give it a 3/10 right now because every time I log on all I get is babooned/weaseled.

Weird because when I was just doing strikes last week to get to 900 before starting the campaign I never had an issue but since Friday night it’s been unplayable. Spent 2 hours today just trying to the the strike done in the campaign...
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,642
The actual story campaign is extremely underwhelming.

Everything else is fantastic.
Agreed. Like I even anticipated the campaign being short but good god man. It’s like two story missions interspersed with busy work” missions. It’s no Forsaken.
Which bums me out. It makes me think we aren’t going to get a big story focused release of that caliber until Destiny 3.
 

Mr_DyZ

Member
Jun 12, 2019
306
They didn’t throw it around because they knew that their offering would look terrible in that context. They also used to have Activision actively trying to advertise the game to CoD-bros rather than MMO nerds.

Destiny has always been structured like an MMO though, and it has always failed to live up to the expectations that come along with games like that.
I don't think Destiny has lived down any expectations if we're being honest. The game was never going to be as robust as a WoW. Games that "fail" expectations don't have 300,000 concurrent players on steam.

I also think Destiny has some of the best design in games right now (specifically from a raid POV). I'd pay a bunch of money to just have a game dedicated ot multiple raids.
 

Mr_DyZ

Member
Jun 12, 2019
306
If you are a veteran player with eyes set solely on the newest content and the race to the higher level, sure. Destiny 2 is in a decent place.

But the recent changes utterly destroyed all legacy content, including all the good Forsaken did. That's two full years of content down the drain for a game that isn't exactly rich and diverse. All legacy campaigns are now too easy to be fun to play, they've gutted the story, removed all exotic rewards. The level scaling was only implemented for new content, all the stuff up and including Forsaken has no scaling, the strikes have no scaling.

Destiny 2 would be in a good place if only they didn't destroy two years of content just to sell this small piece of expansion. Veteran players don't even notice how all legacy content was downgraded:

As far as the level scaling, isn't that how it's always kind of worked? New expansion comes out, best way to gear is to play new things. Strikes have always been irrelevant aside from bounties and people just wanting to play them. Bungie has always let strikes go by the wayside.

Aside from that I don't see how much was downgraded. Lots of veteran players don't want (or care) about story campaign anymore. Actually i'd argue that campaign has always been a roadblock to enjoying the best content in Destiny. I'm so glad they removed the need to do it.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
I don't think Destiny has lived down any expectations if we're being honest. The game was never going to be as robust as a WoW. Games that "fail" expectations don't have 300,000 concurrent players on steam.

I also think Destiny has some of the best design in games right now (specifically from a raid POV). I'd pay a bunch of money to just have a game dedicated ot multiple raids.
It absolutely failed to meet expectations, that isn’t even debatable. People were expecting an impossible video game because that’s what Bungie has hyped it up to be over the years. I remember playing the alpha and thinking that the Old Russia gameplay was amazing and how I couldn’t wait to play the other 20 zones that surely most be there.

Good raid design is another topic altogether.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
1) the narrative is going to be ongoing throughout the year. The last mission in the main Shadowkeep string is just to get things going.
2) ornaments being this limited is, sadly, ... sad. A bit. I'm fine that some items are just ornaments, because it means I can just use that look once I find gear I'm keeping forever.
3) The Moon being copy/paste is incredibly off base. They redid the lighting and some textures. The underground areas have mostly been the same (there are still a ton of changes around it) but the surface has had old areas expanded and changed and also added an entire section with different events. Plus they repurposed and changed an old crucible map everyone hated to be part of a patrol area (and it works well). it's absolutely, positively not a copy/paste job.
That ongoing narrative will cost extra right? If so that shouldn't be taken into account while scoring shadowkeep.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,899
And that wasn’t really satisfying? Look where it has currently led us, nowhere. We are still waiting for those plot threads to actually be resolved. As much as I love the lore I think they have done a poor job on doing anything really compelling in game. Bungie has absolutely not proven to me that I should have any faith in their story telling.
I dunno I thought the dreaming city stuff was cool. Every week I wanted to see what the queen was up to. The first 3 weeks especially with the curse getting more intense and the dungeon unlocking was great
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,557
they definitely removed legacy exotics. My friend didn’t get wormgod for completing warmind.

Xur can still sell them and you can get them as drops but Riskrunner is a quest now. I think it’s because Bungie wants to forget things like the red war ever happened. They specifically set up Shadowkeep to get to the point in the story kinda like how forsaken is kinda a new thing entirely.
I got Riskrunner from the Xur emblem while I was working on the damn quest. Lesson learned