yeah same here... its good they went f2p as i can continue progressing my character without worrying about the quality of the paid content.
hope they keep a f2p version for D3 as well.
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Destiny 2 Shadowkeep Reviews thread
- Thread starter janusff
- Start date
yeah same here... its good they went f2p as i can continue progressing my character without worrying about the quality of the paid content.
hope they keep a f2p version for D3 as well.
Destiny players are weird. I'd much rather experience new things than go back and do the exact same thing I got bored of doing five years ago.
I loaded up the new "campaign" and the moment it got to "okay, we're stopping what little thrust the narrative has to arbitrarily say that you need to do some patrols or whatever" and just fell off.
I think the reason so many ex-players malign Destiny is because once you kick it, you realize how abusive it is.
I loaded up the new "campaign" and the moment it got to "okay, we're stopping what little thrust the narrative has to arbitrarily say that you need to do some patrols or whatever" and just fell off.
I think the reason so many ex-players malign Destiny is because once you kick it, you realize how abusive it is.
My biggest complaint was the constant reuse of areas and sometimes
Missions (let's do the first one in reverse etc)
So I'll probably skip this. I'm in one way excited to hear about some of the changes, and my favourite gun has a catalyst (Cerberus+1) so I'm sure I'll dive in at some point. But I really hate that there is so much reused. Couldn't even refresh the vendors?
There is some new loot out there but I'm sure I'll be seeing a ton of the same guns and armour like I have since forever.
My girlfriend wants to start playing but it sounds like they have changed the legacy stuff up.
Missions (let's do the first one in reverse etc)
So I'll probably skip this. I'm in one way excited to hear about some of the changes, and my favourite gun has a catalyst (Cerberus+1) so I'm sure I'll dive in at some point. But I really hate that there is so much reused. Couldn't even refresh the vendors?
There is some new loot out there but I'm sure I'll be seeing a ton of the same guns and armour like I have since forever.
My girlfriend wants to start playing but it sounds like they have changed the legacy stuff up.
Dude are there really patrols required as part of the new campaign? Rethinking a possible impulse buy lol
Finished the campaign this morning and yeah it's bad. If you never played destiny 1 might be good but 90% of it feels like it's just lifted from D1 with some slight graphic updates. Most of the missions are just straight up strikes or missions from destiny 1.
Had more fun grinding strikes to 900 then playing the recycled campagin. Hell even the end game night mare hunts are recycled story missions that were recycled destiny 1 content...
If you are just coming to destiny it's prob worth playing since it will be new to you but as someone that been around since then it's the worse expansion so far, even counting those mini dlc like house of the wolves, at least you knew what you where getting.
Had more fun grinding strikes to 900 then playing the recycled campagin. Hell even the end game night mare hunts are recycled story missions that were recycled destiny 1 content...
If you are just coming to destiny it's prob worth playing since it will be new to you but as someone that been around since then it's the worse expansion so far, even counting those mini dlc like house of the wolves, at least you knew what you where getting.
Vex Offensive >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Managerie
I am glad with the season. Get down and play without goofing decyfering Excel Sheets
I am glad with the season. Get down and play without goofing decyfering Excel Sheets
Some new scores
http://www.jeuxvideo.com/test/1120342/destiny-2-le-bastion-des-ombres-des-tenebres-a-la-lumiere.htm 8.5/10
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/05/destiny-2-shadowkeep-review 7.9/10
https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/destiny-2-shadowkeep 4.5/5
https://heavy.com/games/2019/10/destiny-2-shadowkeep-review/ 8.5/10
http://www.jeuxvideo.com/test/1120342/destiny-2-le-bastion-des-ombres-des-tenebres-a-la-lumiere.htm 8.5/10
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/05/destiny-2-shadowkeep-review 7.9/10
https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/destiny-2-shadowkeep 4.5/5
https://heavy.com/games/2019/10/destiny-2-shadowkeep-review/ 8.5/10
I politely disagree but then again I'm a diehard player. The 2 new Strikes, the Exotic boss fight for Deathbringer, and the new Vex stuff rules. Hell, even the new Lost Sectors are awesome.
They're also still rolling out changes week by week. Reviewing the first week of any D2 expansion feels foolish. I'm not saying reviewers need to play the Raid but something like Shadowkeep actually needs multiple weeks to assess because there's only so much of the total offering available in the first two weeks. We still don't have access to the new Dungeon yet, for instance.
This must be a very difficult thing to try to "review" given it's content designed to be released weekly over the course of 3 months. A complete perspective of the quality of the season's content can't really be discussed until December.
I'm not even sure how you review what currently is available in a vacuum. Just the weapons and campaign story? Balance and leveling changes? Like, you can't even include the raid in a review like this because it would have been written in advance and not many people cleared the raid in week 1. The big horde mode activity (Vex Offensive) literally just came out over the weekend.
Best of luck to them.
I'm not even sure how you review what currently is available in a vacuum. Just the weapons and campaign story? Balance and leveling changes? Like, you can't even include the raid in a review like this because it would have been written in advance and not many people cleared the raid in week 1. The big horde mode activity (Vex Offensive) literally just came out over the weekend.
Best of luck to them.
I get this argument being thrown around so I want to make sure there's a solid baseline for what a review is. I think we can agree that reviews serve two primary purposes in the gaming industry: to help consumers understand the current quality of the product and to laud critically the accomplishments of a developer and the product that they've created. I think for the purposes of the reviews being sent out, it's primary intent is to help consumers buy the product right now in its current state. I think Destiny players understand that all of the purchased content is currently not available and they are going to be rolled out in phases throughout the season. However, the issue with this is that time keeps marching on and at some point the product needs to be reviewed or not at all if the purpose is to help inform consumers. If it's too late then the timeliness has passed and there's really no point.
Now in summary, Destiny is a live service game so it's hard to measure at any given point in time when it should be reviewed. The most logical points are at the release of the product or at the end of all content rollout for said product. The latter creates issues in regards to timeliness and the former creates issues in regards to acknowledging the full product. This issue however has been industry as a whole. We've been reviewing live games for years now and the industry has decided to review major product releases closest time to launch as possible. This is to give consumers the opportunity to buy closer to the launch date rather than later. This is why we also have review in progress for games that won't have a review for few weeks after launch. Because there is already a precedent for this, Shadowkeep and all future Destiny expansions will be treated this way. Yeah it sucks that not all the content is rolled out and the expansion won't be judged on those merits but at the same time we have other expansions for other games that were still critically acclaimed in the same situation because the initial package content at the time of release was rock solid. Shadowbringers is a good example of this and so are older WoW expansions. I would also argue that Division 2 falls under this as well.
Whether the lower ranking reviews has any merit depends on the eyes of the beholder at this point in time. Many will argue that reviews are stupid because not all content is being judged. At some point a product needs to be released. Whether it's a game or a review. I personally think that if the developers wanted to ensure the product be critically acclaimed, they have the ability to set themselves up for that. With Shadowkeep, I think it's a mixed bag floating around the current score because the base package doesn't meet that standard. If the content that will be rolled out makes the score jump then my argument should be that it should've been part of the initial package.
I bought it on impulse and I am seriously regretting it. It's shallow, repetitive, and there very very little new content compared to Forsaken.
Would not recommend it to anyone until there is a massive sale or bundle.
Would not recommend it to anyone until there is a massive sale or bundle.
For people new to Destiny 2, it's completely worth it to get into the new release, even on the F2P side.
For old veterans, yeah there's not enough there to warrant the price. I tried to like what I've played so far, but it's not that exceptional.
But I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt, since they're changing models, and there will be more people playing because of the F2P option. I hope they will continue to add interesting stuff as the seasons progress.
For old veterans, yeah there's not enough there to warrant the price. I tried to like what I've played so far, but it's not that exceptional.
But I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt, since they're changing models, and there will be more people playing because of the F2P option. I hope they will continue to add interesting stuff as the seasons progress.
Haha, maybe you're just bad at crucible and you got mad or something.
What a weird thing to say...
The content that is there so far is all great. The 6/10's are a bit silly. The reasoning behind them is too.
The raid is astonishingly good, and with more quests and weekly story bits and a dungeon soon, man, I am very optimistic right now. Having a great time with it.
The raid is astonishingly good, and with more quests and weekly story bits and a dungeon soon, man, I am very optimistic right now. Having a great time with it.
Veteran here and there's loads for me
Solo q comp
Armour 2.0
Raid
Dungeon
Exotic quests
Moon patrol
Etc...
It honestly feels like a great expac for the first two points on their own.
Solo queue comp should have been standard years ago, armor 2.0 isn't exclusive to the expansion, the moon patrol would be cool if it was radically different than the moon in Destiny 1 but it's not. Only thing you've got left are more fetch quests, a single dungeon and admittedly a dope raid.
I don't know why your'e trying to tell me the things I like aren't good, lol. These things were added with this expac, hence they're all good parts of the expac.
Sorry you don't enjoy it as much as I do?
But those are things that person likes; not everyone has to like the same thing. Theres a reason the expansion is getting scores ranging from 6 to 9 (multiple reviews on both ends). Its not for everyone.
What? How is saying solo Q and armor 2.0 not being restricted to the expansion saying they shouldn't like those things? When you're reviewing a paid product they shouldn't factor in to the score as they're not part of the expansion, they came in a free update with the expansion.
Okay grumpy pants, I'll strike those two things and I still think it's a great expac.
It's not abusive... lol, and we're all capable of realizing why we play etc... I wish some of you would just move away from the game you obviously don't want to play without dumping on those who do (not saying you said that directly, but you were reinforcing the nonsense a bit).
I mean, ffs Aurc, you were saying before that you were waiting for the game to have a decent expac and you skipped Forsaken? you clearly just don't care any more.
Let me preface this by saying A. I'm a huge Destiny fan and am loving Shadowkeep, and B. this is in no way a defence of D2 or dismissal of any reviews.
I just wonder how realistic it is to review games where the content, as is the case with Shadowkeep and with some of the more recent D2 seasons, is released over literally two months or so. I get that it's not feasible to re-review per week or even wait two months to post a review, but I can't say I've got a better alternative. If anything I think more than ever we're in an age where it's important to do your research before buying a game of any kind. And if you don't want to wait per week for the content, then all power to you. I just think it's an interesting point of difference and one that's becoming increasingly common with GaaS titles, or GaaS elements in standard single or multiplayer games.
I just wonder how realistic it is to review games where the content, as is the case with Shadowkeep and with some of the more recent D2 seasons, is released over literally two months or so. I get that it's not feasible to re-review per week or even wait two months to post a review, but I can't say I've got a better alternative. If anything I think more than ever we're in an age where it's important to do your research before buying a game of any kind. And if you don't want to wait per week for the content, then all power to you. I just think it's an interesting point of difference and one that's becoming increasingly common with GaaS titles, or GaaS elements in standard single or multiplayer games.
People will say "it's out now, it can be reviewed!" but that is denying the model. You buy-in for the season, that's the point. I don't think it's fair to review it like a traditional release, personally... but then it doesn't really matter to me as I'm having a blast and the game is doing well.
You would have a point if the main issue people have is that there isn't much to do. But it goes way beyond that. The content itself is crap and alot of it is directly copied from Destiny 1.
- Very few new weapons
- Very few new armor sets
- Repetitive missions
- Reused assets from Destiny 1
- Reused missions from Destiny 1
- Glorified fetch quests
- Minimal cutscenes
- PvP issues still exist
- Eververse still exists
They didn't even give your guardians any more character either despite them officially have a voice again since Forsaken. Once again there are entire cutscenes where your character is essentially just a statue while other characters talk and events. They have nothing to say and just mindlessly nod or shake their head like they have since Destiny 1.
Shadowkeep was advertised to be the new direction for Destiny. And in reality it's literally the same exact shit with a little bit of hype and a little bit of sparkle added to it. There is not enough new stuff here to warrant the hype or the price. Not even close.
Exactly. And sure it's easy for me to say as a pre-existing fan of Destiny but this is far from just a Destiny problem, more and more games having GaaS elements to them. It's only going to increase with the popularity of game pass and everyone having their own subscriptions. I guess it's a balancing act between having enough content up-front to make people want to stick around for what comes next. And Shadowkeep absolutely has flaws outside of their content release structure. Loving it though!
We weren't talking about reviews though... they were talking about what they like.
People pay $60 nowadays for 8-10 hour single player games... If you're a big fan of Destiny and like grinding stuff then $35 will always bring value. You can say armor 2.0, pvp updates, etc aren't part of shadowkeep... but they directly impact the way you play shadowkeep.
Yeah that's about right. This is one of their more shallow expansions.
To be clear I was only addressing just that issue, I certainly wasn't saying Shadowkeep was without fault or that there aren't plenty of valid points as to why people may not like it.
I do feel like based on some of your points that you had unrealistic expectations of Shadowkeep. The fact you mention Eververse still existing as a negative despite the fact the game just went free to play is a red flag to me, as if they were going to remove it. And what missions were re-used? If you're referring to the new intro mission for new players that's a terrible example as it makes sense to use it for players entirely new to the franchise, and it's literally only used for new characters.
Full blown MMOs and their expansion with patches that take 4-6 months to arrive get judged this way
Destiny 2 is not some completely unique game that is the only game to every have long term planned updates.
The point is part of the buy-in is the season pass, and a lot of that content is released over time. So there's no way to tell what value over time here is truly, and it's a value over time buy-in.
The traditional review format doesn't cover this. This isn't even trying to defend the game, it's just a fact of this seasonal release format.
What? and you dont think that MMOs that have you pay a subscprition fee for constant updates isn't basically the same thing but funded in a different way?
reviews for FFXIV:Shadowbringer Or Battle for azeroth didnt take into account what you wil lbe getting 2-3 months from now as you pay your sub money.
They want money for it now, it's fair game to review what's available now. Especially because it seems like it won't be possible to play everything in the season once the season is over and they're in the next season.
It's silly to review a consumer product based on the promise of future content, or just hold off on reviewing it at all. Should people have not reviewed Anthem because EA had a full roadmap? Not reviewed it at all?
It's silly to review a consumer product based on the promise of future content, or just hold off on reviewing it at all. Should people have not reviewed Anthem because EA had a full roadmap? Not reviewed it at all?
If they release content in a seasonal way, then yes I think traditional reviews don't fit them well either.
Anthem didn't come with a seasonal content package as part of its buy in, and that is the part that reviews won't be able to reflect. I just don't think this is very accurate, and that if a review on release is required that they should maybe have two scores: one as a launch proposition, and one later for how it developed over time.
You can't move away from something that, at one point, was such a big part of your life. Destiny was my #1 hobby for years. It's of a direct interest to me to follow the game's trajectory, even if I'm not actively playing it these days.
I initially skipped Forsaken, and a huge reason as to why is very personal. I don't go into that, because I won't criticize Bungie for something that happened between me and a former friend. I've since played Forsaken (in June, earlier this year, using the digital copy from someone else's account) and posted about it in the OT. I found it to be a largely competent expansion pack, but these things aren't to be looked at in isolation. Forsaken is flanked by an, in my honest opinion, a very poor launch, two middling smaller expansions (actually, CoO seems quite bad), and a season pass that (from what I've noticed) most fans consider to be OK, but nothing to write home about. Now, that brings us up to Shadowkeep, which... well, enough commentary has been made on it throughout this thread.
This is very normal stuff for the veterans of D1. It's a rocky road of high and low points, with some very low lows, and some high highs. Consistency is still an issue, and I wish they'd find systems and mechanics that work, and then settle on those. We're five years in, halfway into the "10 year cycle" that folks are always quoting, so it's about time we get a bit more stern. They can't just keep re-writing the armor and material economy every xpac, for instance. That's silly. I can assure you that I gave plenty of leeway with D1. I was right there with you guys, being mocked by my friends for playing Destiny, having to swat away all the vapid critiques from those that played 20 hours of vanilla, then never touched the game again. The Taken King era still contains some of my fondest memories in gaming. Nothing will ever touch that in quite the same way again.
I'm not dumping on you guys personally, because I've been in your position. Now that I've been on both sides, though, I see how equally important the two are, and there is sometimes an imbalance. We need the praise and critique alike. Critiques mold a game, shape it for the future... but we must also remember the past, lest those mistakes be repeated anew.
(Sorry for always posting so much text. I did try to retract my post above and step away for a bit, but you deserve an earnest response. I can appreciate the way you argue. You're aggressive about calling out what you perceive as bullshit, but you don't resort to petty name-calling or anything resembling that.)
There is no guarantee that what they are going to release in the future won't suck. They are charging money for what they have now, reviewing it now is fair.
Reviews should never be based on Corporate promises.
Reviewing the game as it is, based on possible future content is reviewing on promises.
I really enjoyed most of the content last year so I have faith in them.
Well, I'm sorry you fell out of love with the game. For me, it's going from strength to strength and, while SK does have issues, it does enough right.
(Edit: I didn't mean to be dismissive of what you wrote btw I did read all of that, I just don't really have a reply as my experience is pretty much opposite).
I didn't say they should though... read that again...
Which is why two scores would be better for games like these, or two separate reviews: release and full content review later. And I'd say this for any game of this type, not just Destiny. They don't even need to updated the original score, keep it as it is and add another to reflect what the money bought in the end.
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There are entire sections of the game that are directly taken from Destiny 1. For example as part of the main questline you have to go back through the wrecked Ketch of Skolas and kill him....again. And they changed literally NOTHING about the encounter or the level itself. Its the exact same mission we had in Destiny 1. And all of this is taking place on the moon and aside from some cosmetic changes a sizable portion of the map is exactly the as it was in Destiny 1. And thats not including the fact we have no new enemy types. Its the same enemies we have been killing for years with name changes. Lets do some comparisons between Shadowkeep and Forsaken real quick.
Forsaken
- Brand new class of enemies in the Scorn that had unique models and behaviors
- Quite a few new characters added to the cast as well as other characters being fleshed out. (The Queen, Spider, Petra, Cayde, etc etc)
- Brand new area to visit in the form of the Forgotten Shore
- Brand new area to visit in the form of the Dreaming City
- A wide variety of new armor sets
- A wide variety of new weapons
- New abilities for ALL classes
- A well thought out and well written storyline
- A storyline which btw played out right before our eyes with quite a few really well done cutscenes after almost every major mission
- The storyline actually took a good amount of time to complete
Meanwhile in Shadowkeep we have:
- No new enemies at all. Just the same enemies we have always had with just different skins and names.
- No new areas aside from the few new parts of the moon we got
- Reused missions from previous games
- No new class abilities
- No new cast of characters
- Very few new armor sets compared to Forsaken.
- Very few new weapons compared to Forsaken.
- Less story than Forsaken
- Takes less time to complete than Forsaken
- Minimal cutscenes as well. In fact the majority of the time after you complete a mission all you get is some dialogue from Eris when you go and talk to her.
So all in all we got alot LESS this time around than we did for Forsaken and yet Bungie hyped it up as being a whole new direction for the series. That finally they could do what they want now that the chains of Activision had been broken!!!!!............and all we got was less than what we got before and what we did get was alot of reused areas and missions. And all of this for basically the same price as Forsaken. So yeah. Shadowkeep deserves every bit of criticism that its getting from players and the media.
As for Eververse and Destiny going "free to play"? Last time I checked I still had to pay $35 for access to the latest content so no they are not "free to play" in my opinion. Warframe is free to play. You get access to all new content for literally nothing. You can start the game and play all the way to the most current content without ever spending a dime. THAT is free to play. Giving access to 70% of the game, but not the 30% that everyone else is currently playing is NOT free to play. And then to have predatory micro-transactions in the form of lootboxes and premium currencies on top of that? Yeah no thanks. Eververse is literally the worst thing that ever happened to Destiny in my opinion. And as long as its in the game while Bungie insists on charging a premium for minimal content like its done for Shadowkeep I will always list it as a glaring negative for the game.
I loved Forsaken, but Shadowkeep is an embarrassing step backwards for the series. If you want to release a smaller expansion with less content than the previous one then thats fine. But you cannot charge a similar price and pretend that they are similar in scope like Bungie did leading up to its release.
Are you sure you don't understand this? You spent pages telling me the way I wanted to play the game was wrong.
No I didn't ever say that, you're a very dishonest person.
I was explaining why I think MM for raids is bad and trying to encourage you to join our awesome destiny community.
I clarified my words like 5 times and you refused to listen to me. There was dishonesty going on, just not on my side.
That didn't happen, and you were called out in the thread by a few people for doing then what you're doing now lol.