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Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,352
In his YouTube video he's acting as if he hasn't done anything wrong and even states he "didn't benefit" from his actions yet clearly in the clip I posted they are using the ultimate glitch and they are talking about using a quit/launch glitch as well while many many rares are littered about.

Also quoting from the YouTube comment section:

"The chest farm wasn't even an exploit. What you exploited was the ursix mission in which you would kill an ursix with your bugged storm ults and then die and rekill the ursix. You also did the tyrant mine boss reset exploit in which you kill the boss and exit the game and kill it over and over. You clearly don't mention these,"

So yeah. "Not sure why I was banned" guy knows exactly why he was banned. He broke the ToS and promoted these ToS breaking exploits as he says to 50,000 viewers. They're not legit farming methods, they are exploits. The game isn't intended to be played that way. I'm all for efficiency, finding the fastest way to get the best loot or whatever but let's all be honest about what actually happened here.
The game is PvE.

Who is he actively harming by doing this? It's not like a PvP game where cheating gives unfair advantage over other players.

The exploits should be fixed and that's about it. Banning players like this in a PvE game is massively overkill.
 

Bricktop

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,847
The dev communication. This gen has thoroughly proven that a certain type of customer just wants to talk to the manager. As long as there is a perceived line to vent and engage, quality doesn't matter. We have seen it with Bethesda and the constant vapid PR speak that is gobbled up and are now seeing it with Anthem. You don't need to deliver if you can get that sweet parasocial relationship going.

I'm so sick of hearing about how great their communication is. Like, great, they talk to the community. How, exactly, has that translated into a decent game? And you're right, people lap that shit up and completely forget that they paid for a broken piece of shit because some developer talked to them. If I were Bioware I'd never stop chatting, and milk these starstruck fools for as long as possible.
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
I expected this to happen. People never learn.

My post in the official thread a few weeks ago:
I will never understand why people exploit games. Wonder if there will be repercussions for the players. There have been in the past in other games.
link

It doesn't matter if it is a PVE or PvP game. It is exploiting something. And the EA ToS clearly states

When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
  • Use exploits, cheats, undocumented features, design errors or problems in an EA Service.
https://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/
 
Feb 1, 2018
5,241
Europe
That's pretty stupid, is it now a thing to ban people who play your game? We had news like that from a f76 player not so long ago...
League of Legends has been doing this for years. While I understand the reason to ban toxic players, they should then get a refund on all digital things they bought. Banning somebody is actually very close to stealing. It is only a matter of time before we get a courtcase for this IMHO.
 

Vern

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,097
I don't understand the point of these games? It's just to get the best equipment? Is there any other actual goal? Like I get there is a story but the main point is to find stuff over and over again? I've never played a loot game.
 

Deleted member 18324

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
678
I expected this to happen. People never learn.

My post in the official thread a few weeks ago:
link

It doesn't matter if it is a PVE or PvP game. It is exploiting something. And the EA ToS clearly states


https://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/


1) Nobody gives a fuck about the ToS
2) They have not defined "design errors and problems". It's just a get-out clause for them to disapprove of anything that threatens their monetization model for GaaS products. Nobody should be cheerleading that kind of practice, that basically absolves them of responsibility for any errors and blames the user for pursuing strategies that aren't documented as "bannable" anywhere
3) Skiing in Tribes and combos in Street Fighter 2 were unintended glitches. If they adopted EA's model nobody would know or care about these games.
4) In a purely pragmatic sense it would be better for the game if they quietly patched the exploits rather than resorting to banning someone who was driving a sizable % of its viewership

If you're going to defend a company arbitrarily (and opaquely) deciding what is or isn't "allowed" I hope you don't watch Games Done Quick, within about 10 minutes you would suffer an aneurysm.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
I don't understand the point of these games? It's just to get the best equipment? Is there any other actual goal? Like I get there is a story but the main point is to find stuff over and over again? I've never played a loot game.

Apparently farming loot but not farming it too well. Then you get banned by terminology buried in the fine print of the TOS and you are out $60. Something to consider with GaaS taking off. Your money and time can just evaporate for sometimes esoteric corporate reasons.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
People actually defending the ban makes me sad. Exploiting a game; when it doesn't involve griefing is part of the fun, GAAS or SP.
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
1) Nobody gives a fuck about the ToS
2) They have not defined "design errors and problems". It's just a get-out clause for them to disapprove of anything that threatens their monetization model for GaaS products. Nobody should be cheerleading that kind of practice, that basically absolves them of responsibility for any errors and blames the user for pursuing strategies that aren't documented as "bannable" anywhere
3) Skiing in Tribes and combos in Street Fighter 2 were unintended glitches. If they adopted EA's model nobody would know or care about these games.
4) In a purely pragmatic sense it would be better for the game if they quietly patched the exploits rather than resorting to banning someone who was driving a sizable % of its viewership

If you're going to defend a company arbitrarily (and opaquely) deciding what is or isn't "allowed" I hope you don't watch Games Done Quick, within about 10 minutes you would suffer an aneurysm.
Breaking the ToS is their justification of banning you. Doesn't matter the context. Not sure why you are mentioning GDQ, didn't see those are under EA service ToS.

The problem in this thread and the YT video is people not knowing what a ToS is. Break it and the company can do what ever they want.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Breaking the ToS is their justification of banning you. Doesn't matter the context. Not sure why you are mentioning GDQ, didn't see those are under EA service ToS.

The problem in this thread and the YT video is people not knowing what a ToS is. Break it and the company can do what ever they want.
Youre assuming that we misunderstand what a tos when in reality were saying that this specific part of it is fucking stupid, pointless, and should not exist in these types of PVE only games. No one in here is confused about HOW they could do this due to language in the tos.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
Exploiting a game; when it doesn't involve griefing is part of the fun, GAAS or SP.

tenor.gif
 

Horp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,712
How is this such a hard concept to grasp? It is literally -beating- them game. The game poses this challenge to you: "farm/grind". It also essentially tells you to do it as efficently as you can. You have these abilities, movement options, ways to group and play, all to be more efficient. Finding the ultimate way to do this, is obviously rewarding. In many cases that entails some degree of abusing the mechanincs.
 

Deleted member 35204

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 3, 2017
2,406
This is as if Nintendo/Game Freak banned people for using the missigno glitch to get 99 rare candy in Pokémon Red/Blue... that's so dumb.
 

Roshin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,840
Sweden
It doesn't matter if it is a PVE or PvP game. It is exploiting something. And the EA ToS clearly states:

"Use exploits, cheats, undocumented features, design errors or problems in an EA Service."

How do we tell "undocumented features, design errors or problems" apart from the game as it is presented and sold to the consumer? We didn't design it. Literally hundreds of bugs and glitches pass us by in games, without us noticing or recognising them as possible exploits.
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,481
Germany
I'm so sick of hearing about how great their communication is. Like, great, they talk to the community. How, exactly, has that translated into a decent game? And you're right, people lap that shit up and completely forget that they paid for a broken piece of shit because some developer talked to them. If I were Bioware I'd never stop chatting, and milk these starstruck fools for as long as possible.
"oh no,i made a huge mistake! I spent money on this product that is obviously not what I wanted it to be! whatever shall I do? Oh wait...this guy...he is talking to me and....he is telling me it's all gonna be ok. they will make it what I wanted it to be. my money WILL be well spent after all! oh thank you man who works for company i paid for product for making me feel safe and secure in my choice to part with my money!"
 

shimon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,581
This is embarrassing.
On the other hand Anthem has been the best possible advertisement for Destiny 2 and The Division 2. Bungie and Ubisoft should thank them somehow.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,972
I expected this to happen. People never learn.

My post in the official thread a few weeks ago:
link

It doesn't matter if it is a PVE or PvP game. It is exploiting something. And the EA ToS clearly states


https://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/
And? Who was he harming? Who was hurt from exploiting a way to get more loot, in a game where you cannot interact with other players whatsoever with said loot?

It being in the TOS doesn't justify shit. The TOS is there to prevent people from suing the company, and to protect others from being hurt, or getting their experiences ruined. What are EA and BioWare preventing by banning people that get loot a little bit faster?
 

Vern

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,097
Apparently farming loot but not farming it too well. Then you get banned by terminology buried in the fine print of the TOS and you are out $60. Something to consider with GaaS taking off. Your money and time can just evaporate for sometimes esoteric corporate reasons.

So the first sentence you confirmed it's just about getting "stuff" right? So the reward should be playing well gets you new and better stuff yea? Repeat over and over again forever? So then the exploit just seems to be the main objective of the game, just in smaller chunks in order to get random junk quicker. Is that fun or is the streamer just doing it to show people that you can? I really dont get these games at all
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
How do I tell "undocumented features, design errors or problems" apart from the game as it is presented and sold to the consumer? I didn't design it.

Better question is how are you - not as the developer - capable of knowing a design error or working as intended? "Fuck you, you found a mistake. You are out $60."


So the first sentence you confirmed it's just about getting "stuff" right? So the reward should be playing well gets you new and better stuff yea? Repeat over and over again forever? So then the exploit just seems to be the main objective of the game, just in smaller chunks in order to get random junk quicker. Is that fun or is the streamer just doing it to show people that you can? I really dont get these games at all

I mean... yeah. This ban is really fucking weird and is somewhat akin to how they raised issues with RNG Microtransactions in Battlefront 2 to public awareness. TOS and using a mistake by developers can invalidate your purchase is a BIG issue.

EA thank you for bringing this into a larger conversation.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 18324

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
678
Breaking the ToS is their justification of banning you. Doesn't matter the context. Not sure why you are mentioning GDQ, didn't see those are under EA service ToS.

The problem in this thread and the YT video is people not knowing what a ToS is. Break it and the company can do what ever they want.

I know what a ToS is. I'm saying the ToS is a problem if it delivers outcomes like this. Why are you defending it?
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
How do I tell "undocumented features, design errors or problems" apart from the game as it is presented and sold to the consumer? I didn't design it.
Play the game as it is meant to be played and you are fine. The guy in the YT video knew he was exploiting. And I am pretty sure he is not telling us all the details. Like with most of these YT "drama" videos.

I can see most people here have already decided (maybe even before entering the thread) that Anthem / EA is at fault.

He broke the ToS, and that is really the end of story. I am not defending anyone here. Just telling you how it is. Exploiting something can lead to this, that is why you should never do it. If not, then stay away from EA service. Simple as that.
 

MortosDer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
602
Imagine people defending multi billion dollar companies just because some paper they themselves wrote says they can do whatever they want.
 

Dphex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,811
Cologne, Germany
How is this such a hard concept to grasp? It is literally -beating- them game. The game poses this challenge to you: "farm/grind". It also essentially tells you to do it as efficently as you can. You have these abilities, movement options, ways to group and play, all to be more efficient. Finding the ultimate way to do this, is obviously rewarding. In many cases that entails some degree of abusing the mechanincs.

i am not wondering about Gladd, the guy can do what he wants and Anthem is a shit game, exploited or not. i wondered about the statement "Exploiting a game; when it doesn't involve griefing is part of the fun, GAAS or SP."

so, exploiting a game is part of the fun? ok... don´t reallly understand this, but to each their own...thats exactly why the glitches are celebrated in Destiny too i guess, going the way of least resistance instead facing a challenge
 

Slackbladder

Member
Nov 24, 2017
1,145
Kent
Regardless at whether this was correct or not it's bad publicity when Anthem absolutely could do without it. That said I'm sure Bioware felt they had no choice because of the wording of the ToS, almost certainly written by EA execs who just want to protect their monetization options, forced their hand. Then again did anyone have to know? Just patch it and in the patch note make a reference to such activity being fixed.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,972
Play the game as it is meant to be played and you are fine. The guy in the YT video knew he was exploiting. And I am pretty sure he is not telling us all the details. Like with most of these YT "drama" videos.

I can see most people here have already decided (maybe even before entering the thread) that Anthem / EA is at fault.

He broke the ToS, and that is really the end of story. I am not defending anyone here. Just telling you how it is. Exploiting something can lead to this, that is why you should never do it. If not, then stay away from EA service. Simple as that.
We don't need someone "telling it how it is", we can all read just fine. We're all saying it's stupid to enforce this when it's harming absolutely no one.
 

Deleted member 18324

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
678
Play the game as it is meant to be played and you are fine. The guy in the YT video knew he was exploiting. And I am pretty sure he is not telling us all the details. Like with most of these YT "drama" videos.

I can see most people here have already decided (maybe even before entering the thread) that Anthem / EA is at fault.

He broke the ToS, and that is really the end of story. I am not defending anyone here. Just telling you how it is. Exploiting something can lead to this, that is why you should never do it. If not, then stay away from EA service. Simple as that.

Define "as it is meant to be played". Show us EA's documentation of what intended play is. Anthem/EA are obviously at fault, they applied the ban. The rest of your argument seems to be that the existence of a wide-ranging and poorly defined ToS means that nobody should concern themselves with this practice.
 

Roshin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,840
Sweden
Play the game as it is meant to be played and you are fine. The guy in the YT video knew he was exploiting. And I am pretty sure he is not telling us all the details. Like with most of these YT "drama" videos.

No, that is skirting the issue and also placing blame on a consumer, without knowing the details.

It's easy to suggest that people "play the game as it is meant to be played", but as I added in my earlier edit, there are literally hundreds of bugs and glitches that pass us by in games, without us noticing or recognising them as possible exploits. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes it's not.
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
Define "as it is meant to be played". Show us EA's documentation of what intended play is. Anthem/EA are obviously at fault, they applied the ban. The rest of your argument seems to be that the existence of a wide-ranging and poorly defined ToS means that nobody should concern themselves with this practice.
Seems pretty clear to me

6. Rules of Conduct

When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    • Violate any law, rule or regulation.
    • Interfere with or disrupt any EA Service or any server or network used to support or provide an EA Service, including any hacking or cracking into an EA Service.
    • Use any software or program that damages, interferes with or disrupts an EA Service or another's computer or property, such as denial of service attacks, spamming, hacking, or uploading computer viruses, worms, Trojan horses, cancelbots, spyware, corrupted files and time bombs.
    • Interfere with or disrupt another player's use of an EA Service. This includes disrupting the normal flow of game play, chat or dialogue within an EA Service by, for example, using vulgar or harassing language, being abusive, excessive shouting (all caps), spamming, flooding or hitting the return key repeatedly.
    • Harass, threaten, bully, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another player that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.
    • Contribute UGC or organize or participate in any activity, group or guild that is inappropriate, abusive, harassing, profane, threatening, hateful, offensive, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invades another's privacy, or is otherwise reasonably objectionable.
    • Publish, post, upload or distribute UGC or content that is illegal or that you don't have permission to freely distribute.
    • Publish, post, upload or distribute any content, such as a topic, name, screen name, avatar, persona, or other material or information, that EA (acting reasonably and objectively) determines is inappropriate, abusive, hateful, harassing, profane, defamatory, threatening, hateful, obscene, sexually explicit, infringing, privacy-invasive, vulgar, offensive, indecent or unlawful.
    • Post a message for any purpose other than personal communication. Prohibited messages include advertising, spam, chain letters, pyramid schemes and other types of solicitation or commercial activities.
    • Impersonate another person or falsely imply that you are an EA employee or representative.
    • Improperly use in-game support or complaint buttons or make false reports to EA staff.
    • Attempt to obtain, or phish for, a password, account information, or other private information from anyone else on EA Services.
    • Use any robot, spider or other automated device or process to access this website for any purpose or copy any material on this website.
    • Use or distribute unauthorized software programs or tools, such as "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs, "cheat utility" software program or applications, exploits, cheats, or any other game hacking, altering or cheating software or tool.
    • Modify any file or any other part of the EA Service that EA does not specifically authorize you to modify.
    • Use exploits, cheats, undocumented features, design errors or problems in an EA Service.
    • Use or distribute counterfeit software or EA Content, including EA Virtual Currency.
    • Attempt to use an EA Service on or through any service that is not controlled or authorized by EA.
    • Sell, buy, trade or otherwise transfer or offer to transfer your EA Account, any personal access to EA Services, or any EA Content associated with your EA Account, including EA Virtual Currency and other Entitlements, either within an EA Service or on a third party website, or in connection with any out-of-game transaction, unless expressly authorized by EA.
    • Use an EA Service in a country in which EA is prohibited from offering such services under applicable export control laws.
    • If an EA Service requires you to create a "user name" or a "persona" to represent you in game and online, you should not use your real name and may not use a user name or persona that is used by someone else or that EA determines is vulgar or offensive or violates someone else's rights.
    • Engage in any other activity that significantly disturbs the peaceful, fair and respectful gaming environment of an EA Service.
    • Use information about users publicly available in any EA Service (e.g. on a leaderboard) for any purpose unrelated to the Service, including to attempt to identify such users in the real world.
    • Promote, encourage or take part in any prohibited activity described above.

I can see BioWare reaching out to him. So let's see what is the real reason was. But to me, the ToS explains the ban to me.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
I think something people are missing is he didn't glitch through a wall or even exploit a boss battle with a blind spot. He literally found chests in the open world that seemed to have good loot sometimes. Not all the time. Sometimes. He farmed them like what happens in other games. He did not glitch the open. He just opened them as intended. He didn't then go on to sell the loot for real world money (which is impossible with this game). He just found a chest with a higher than average rate to give good gear.

For that, they invalidated his purchase. For that, people are defending a legal document by corporate execs.
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
I think something people are missing is he didn't glitch through a wall or even exploit a boss battle with a blind spot. He literally found chests in the open world that seemed to have good loot sometimes. Not all the time. Sometimes. He farmed them like what happens in other games. He did not glitch the open. He just opened them as intended. He didn't then go on to sell the loot for real world money (which is impossible with this game). He just found a chest with a higher than average rate to give good gear.

For that, they invalidated his purchase. For that, people are defending a legal document by corporate execs.
And you know this how? Do you know him? Did you play with him? The video of him really isn't proof of anything. Just his words against them.
Let's see what the devs figure out, as they have reached out.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
And you know this how? Do you know him? Did you play with him? The video of him really isn't proof of anything. Just his words against them.
Let's see what the devs figure out, as they have reached out.

I watched his video and using that as the only account of it. Now if there is more to the story, that is a different thing - I agree entirely. But we are working on the information we have now... that's the story and definitely not a reason to defend the TOS unless we really want to be cut throat about the interpetation of the wording.
 

Pirateluigi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,871
Man, if this story really is what it's being presented as... that's very concerning. As a speed runner, the idea of getting banned for using an exploit in a PVE game is some scary shit.
 

Pyros Eien

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,974
A lot of people defending exploiting in an online multiplayer game is interesting. I guess it's because Destiny let people exploit that it sets some sort of precedent? For anyone who's played mmos, exploiting pretty much always result in bans, if the scale of the exploit is impactful enough(which is very subjective). Mind you I wouldn't say Destiny/Anthem are true mmos, so I can see them having different rules, but I wouldn't be surprised to see bans for pve exploits in an online game, even if it's not competitive.

If you find an exploit in WoW and consistently use it, you're getting banned. But it didn't even start with Blizzard and WoW. I got banned from UO back in the early mmo days for duping. My secondary account got banned in AC for duping. I didn't play EQ enough but I remember some people talking about getting banned for killing raid stuff in weird ways. FFXI had bans for various exploits. More recently, GW2 banned a bunch of people for exploiting vendor resale value at launch and FFXIV banned people using the Ungarmax exploit.
 

Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 21, 2017
6,639
How is this such a hard concept to grasp? It is literally -beating- them game. The game poses this challenge to you: "farm/grind". It also essentially tells you to do it as efficently as you can. You have these abilities, movement options, ways to group and play, all to be more efficient. Finding the ultimate way to do this, is obviously rewarding. In many cases that entails some degree of abusing the mechanincs.

If you don't want your players to enjoy the game that way, just fix it? The idea of banning someone who maybe paid $60 for this is absurd.
 

Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
Terrible Beta, bad reviews, tons of bad press - banning people who support you.

Guess the next logical step would be an AMA on 8 Chan.
 

Hesemonni

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,974
By the way things are going EA's claim to support Anthem until May seems overly generous. Who's going to be left playing it anyway?
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Anthem team is attempting to out tryhard FO76 and still fall short. There were serious game stability threats the FO76 player had the potential of creating because of all the dupes he held if he released it into the game world. In this game no potential to harm anyone else existed.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,058
I expected this to happen. People never learn.

My post in the official thread a few weeks ago:
link

It doesn't matter if it is a PVE or PvP game. It is exploiting something. And the EA ToS clearly states


https://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/

Just like that time Squaresoft came to my house and removed my copy of FFVII for using the item duplication glitch.

It's a PvE game. The TOS is absolute bullshit, and the legality of this practice is just evidence of how skewed the legal system is in catering to multi million dollar companies. Defending this is honestly not reflecting well on you.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,408
We're seeing new ground of corporate apologism, basically in uncharted territory now, how far can we go? Is ther even a limit anymore? Can people actually find fun in exploiting a game or is that a thought beyond my brain's line of sight? 🤔
 

Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
And you know this how? Do you know him? Did you play with him? The video of him really isn't proof of anything. Just his words against them.
Let's see what the devs figure out, as they have reached out.
In what godforsaken hellscape are you from that you are legitimately trusting a mega corporation over an individual person