Details about "New" Switch revision via OS datamine (LPDDR4x RAM, modest GPU performance boost, no "Pro" model in sight)

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
That's the thing though, the Mariko Switch's are only two models within the firmware code, and the Switch Refresh on the FCC refiling with the new SoC IS the other Mariko Model beyond the lite. The only way it makes sense to have the Refresh not part of the Mariko Duo is of in the firmware Nintendo still treats the Refresh as the OG despite having Mariko.
Yeah that is strange indeed. I wonder if there is a separate FCC filing incoming which adds more to the list of changes. Or if there's a request for nonpublication on one of them.

10nm should be considerably more power efficient than an x2, unless I’m missing something.
10nm is referring to the node on which the LPDDR4X memory is fabbed. Mariko itself is either 16nm or 12nm (which is basically 16nm).
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,105
This quote?
The GPU in the "New" Switch is clocked at higher values than Switch Lite, potentially giving a modest boost

this only refers to switch pro/"new" switch
Yea, of course the new switch would be the only one with higher clock speeds

The lite has a smaller battery so it can’t have higher clock speeds, it’s focused on portability
 

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
This quote?
The GPU in the "New" Switch is clocked at higher values than Switch Lite, potentially giving a modest boost

this only refers to switch pro/"new" switch
I don't know if he changed the tweet but this is what I can find now:


While Switch Lite features a smaller display and non-detachable joycons, the "New" model appears to be exactly the same as the current Switch. However, the GM20B_B GPU in the "New" Switch is clocked at higher values, potentially giving a modest performance boost.

So yeah he only mentions the "new" Switch as having those higher clocks but this is actually clearer than the quote in the OP you used, since some people thought the quote in the OP (clocked at higher values than the Switch Lite) just referred to docked clocks. While this tweet clearly indicates he's saying it's clocked at higher values than the "current Switch".

So yeah I don't disagree with your point at all but that quote you used appears to be slightly misleading.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,105
I don't know if he changed the tweet but this is what I can find now:


While Switch Lite features a smaller display and non-detachable joycons, the "New" model appears to be exactly the same as the current Switch. However, the GM20B_B GPU in the "New" Switch is clocked at higher values, potentially giving a modest performance boost.

So yeah he only mentions the "new" Switch as having those higher clocks but this is actually clearer than the quote in the OP you used, since some people thought the quote in the OP (clocked at higher values than the Switch Lite) just referred to docked clocks. While this tweet clearly indicates he's saying it's clocked at higher values than the "current Switch".

So yeah I don't disagree with your point at all but that quote you used appears to be slightly misleading.
Yea it would already be obvious that docked has higher clock speeds than portable so he’s not talking about that, he’s talking about higher clocks period in any mode
 

Plankton2

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Dec 12, 2017
1,556
The actual OS doesn‘t need that much RAM than there is reserved for it. I think it is a design choice by them to have an OS with not many features.
Yea I was sorta guessing they would overhaul it. So the "enhanced features for gamers" would probably include things like voice chat and parties and stuff so you would need more memory
 

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
Yea it would already be obvious that docked has higher clock speeds than portable so he’s not talking about that, he’s talking about higher clocks period in any mode
Someone earlier in the thread was arguing with me about that, suggesting he meant the higher clocks only referred to the OG Switch docked mode. The wording in the tweet makes it a lot clearer that this is not what he's referring to.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,613
What's weird about some of this is that the FCC filing doesn't mention anything about a change in battery size. Nor does it mention a change in RAM that the OP is indicating (only a change in flash memory). I'm not sure exactly what needs to be disclosed in those requests but it's odd that we don't see those here.

It makes me wonder if the FCC request is actually only a minor change to the OG Switch and not meant for this new Switch which will be treated as a different product.
Yeah it seems peculiar they wouldn't mention the RAM when they do mention the storage.
Fun fact: the test data for this that Nintendo submitted to the FCC was carried out last August!
 

VinylCassette64

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,111
Lack of reference to an actual enhanced Switch in the works is a bit of a bummer for me; but at the same time, I’m not going to continue to wait and see if one materializes. I feel I’ve waited long enough and the reported improvements might just be good enough for me.

All I ask is for this Switch revision to be out by mid-September so I can pick one up as a personal birthday present.
 

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
Yeah it seems peculiar they wouldn't mention the RAM when they do mention the storage.
Fun fact: the test data for this that Nintendo submitted to the FCC was carried out last August!
Wait what? Where do you see that? The earliest date I can see in this request is 7/3/2019.

Lack of reference to an actual enhanced Switch in the works is a bit of a bummer for me; but at the same time, I’m not going to continue to wait and see if one materializes. I feel I’ve waited long enough and the reported improvements might just be good enough for me.

All I ask is for this Switch revision to be out by mid-September so I can pick one up as a personal birthday present.
I mean, what do you mean by "actual enhanced Switch"? This is an enhanced Switch, it's what we've been told to expect for like 6 months now.
 

ShadowFox08

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,717
With LPDDR4X, you could actually get higher bandwidth speeds than regular. I heard you save at least 20% from power consumption/watt usage.

Also, is it confirmed that the LPDDR4X is 10nm? That would make it second generation and save 10% from first gen according to this article
 
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War3190

Member
Oct 27, 2017
145
So I'm assuming since there is less heat in the new models they are able to go at a much higher clock.

Is the LCD panel the same as the original?
 

Plankton2

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,556
What's weird about some of this is that the FCC filing doesn't mention anything about a change in battery size. Nor does it mention a change in RAM that the OP is indicating (only a change in flash memory). I'm not sure exactly what needs to be disclosed in those requests but it's odd that we don't see those here.

It makes me wonder if the FCC request is actually only a minor change to the OG Switch and not meant for this new Switch which will be treated as a different product.
The FCC filing says "change in CPU Board"... so motherboard which would include the RAM right?. Could be purposefully vague for the non-confidential parts
 

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
By that I meant the constantly referred-to “Pro” Switch that was being used in rumors. But that was never actually reported to exist in the WSJ report so you can ignore that. Bad terminology on my part.
I guess my issue is what is the difference between this "enhanced Switch" and a theoretical "pro" Switch?

So I'm assuming since there is less heat in the new models they are able to go at a much higher clock.
The guy who did the datamining found that it is clocked higher than the original Switch, yeah. But we don't know how much higher and in what situations.

https://fccid.io/BKEHAC001/Test-Report/03-FCC-Test-Report-NII-4350008

On the first page it says Date of test:
August 3 to 26, 2018

And once you get to the radiation test pages it has the date for each individual test.
Oh that's a new document! I've only seen this one- https://fccid.io/BKEHAC001/Letter/02-FCC-Class-II-Permissive-Change-Letter-4349995#download

Is there anything juicy in that one other than the test date?

EDIT: Fishing around in the other new HAC001 documents filed recently (https://fccid.io/BKEHAC001) we have confirmation that this new Switch will launch within the next 177 days (which I'm guessing is the term limit for the "short-term confidentiality" they requested).
 

skittzo0413

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Oct 25, 2017
17,211
https://fccid.io/BKEHAC001/Test-Report/03-FCC-Test-Report-NII-4350008

On the first page it says Date of test:
August 3 to 26, 2018

And once you get to the radiation test pages it has the date for each individual test.
So these are tests for the radiation emitting parts, aka the various Bluetooth and wifi chips and whatnot. But not things like the SoC or RAM. Since they submitted new tests with these parts does that suggest they're using updated parts? Or do they need to include tests like this every time they change any part of the device such as the SoC?

The FCC filing says "change in CPU Board"... so motherboard which would include the RAM right?. Could be purposefully vague for the non-confidential parts
They would probably have to specifically indicate they changed the RAM just like they did for the NAND flash memory.
 

skittzo0413

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Oct 25, 2017
17,211
Not really, but they tested in a developer version of the dock, whatever that is. This gave me the thought that this change request could actually be used for a test unit and not the mass production one. The Switch Lite doesn't show up on FCC yet so you never know.
For them to even bother to file an FCC request wouldn't this presumably be a product that they plan to sell in the US?
 

VinylCassette64

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,111
I guess my issue is what is the difference between this "enhanced Switch" and a theoretical "pro" Switch?
By Pro I was hypothetically referring to a Switch with either notable performance boost and/or new hardware functionality features that the OG Switch lacks. Not in the sense of PS4 Pro/X1X, comparisons to XBO S/New 3DS are closer to what I was thinking.

Based on the details for this one in the OP, it sounds more like a refresh of the original model that despite the hardware changes is still identical to the original in functionality (the so-called “stealth revision”).

Like I said though, I’m getting to the point where I’ll likely just pick up whatever standard Switch is available over the next few months. So what the new Switch is at this doesn’t really matter much to me as of now.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,613
So these are tests for the radiation emitting parts, aka the various Bluetooth and wifi chips and whatnot. But not things like the SoC or RAM. Since they submitted new tests with these parts does that suggest they're using updated parts? Or do they need to include tests like this every time they change any part of the device such as the SoC?
I have no idea tbh. I'd have thought that radiation emitting parts are going to be the main concern, but it's not something I know anything about.

For them to even bother to file an FCC request wouldn't this presumably be a product that they plan to sell in the US?
Sorry I mean test unit as in for software developers, QA etc. those units still go through the FCC.
 

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
By Pro I was hypothetically referring to a Switch with either notable performance boost and/or new hardware functionality features that the OG Switch lacks. Not in the sense of PS4 Pro/X1X, comparisons to XBO S/New 3DS are closer to what I was thinking.

Based on the details for this one in the OP, it sounds more like a refresh of the original model that despite the hardware changes is still identical to the original in functionality (the so-called “stealth revision”).

Like I said though, I’m getting to the point where I’ll likely just pick up whatever standard Switch is available over the next few months. So what the new Switch is at this doesn’t really matter much to me as of now.
Ah, I think the bolded is the problem, in that this isn't what the OP is indicating. The device in the OP supposedly runs with higher GPU clocks than the current Switch, aka there is a performance upgrade. On top of that it uses more efficient RAM, another performance upgrade. It might have more battery life too. And it probably has more storage (64GB).

Emily said this is going to launch in at least two new colors so it's not going to be a stealth revision. She expects it to be actually announced by early August.

But if they are changing from LPDDR4 to LPDDR4X isn't their already a confirmed change in RAM?

IDK just throwing things out there
Yeah, that's why I'm saying this info and the FCC request might not line up to point to the same product.
 

VinylCassette64

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,111
Ah, I think the bolded is the problem, in that this isn't what the OP is indicating. The device in the OP supposedly runs with higher GPU clocks than the current Switch, aka there is a performance upgrade. On top of that it uses more efficient RAM, another performance upgrade. It might have more battery life too. And it probably has more storage (64GB).

Emily said this is going to launch in at least two new colors so it's not going to be a stealth revision. She expects it to be actually announced by early August.
Ah, okay then. That all sounds good to me, especially better battery life and 64GB storage. Hope the August announcement date is true.
 

MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,445
Las Vegas
from the twitter thing
- Original T210 hardware line had 2 form factors: nx-abca2 (retail and EDEV) and nx-abcb (SDEV);
- New T214 hardware line has 3 form factors: nx-abca2, nx-abcb and nx-abcc (these 3 forms exist for *both* Lite and "New");


what is the 3rd form factor then if both lite and "new" have
nx-abca2 is retail and edev
nx-abcb is SDEV
nx-abcc is ????

the great mystery
 

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
from the twitter thing
- Original T210 hardware line had 2 form factors: nx-abca2 (retail and EDEV) and nx-abcb (SDEV);
- New T214 hardware line has 3 form factors: nx-abca2, nx-abcb and nx-abcc (these 3 forms exist for *both* Lite and "New");


what is the 3rd form factor then if both lite and "new" have
nx-abca2 is retail and edev
nx-abcb is SDEV
nx-abcc is ????

the great mystery
1) Lite
2) New Switch
3) Devkit
 

Peltz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,193
So, why change the DevKit to 8GB from 6GB?

The current Switch uses 2x 2GB Samsung memory modules. The Dev Kits, obviously, had 3x. So Nintendo was able to just focus on buying 2GB modules and maximized their volume discount.

My bet is they've switched the Lite and the "new" revised Switch to use 1x 4GB module. With density increases etc, the prices on modules drop over time, so it's probably now cheaper than 2 smaller modules. That leaves them with either: continuing to buy a vastly reduced amount of 2GB modules for the additional DevKit RAM, but now they're paying a lot more per 2GB module because they build a lot of DevKits, OR just buy a ton of 4GB modules, maximize their volume discount, put 1 in consumer Switches & 2 in the DevKits. No dev ever complained about more RAM anyways.
That... actually makes a ton of sense.
 

bmfrosty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
527
SF Bay Area
So, why change the DevKit to 8GB from 6GB?

The current Switch uses 2x 2GB Samsung memory modules. The Dev Kits, obviously, had 3x. So Nintendo was able to just focus on buying 2GB modules and maximized their volume discount.

My bet is they've switched the Lite and the "new" revised Switch to use 1x 4GB module. With density increases etc, the prices on modules drop over time, so it's probably now cheaper than 2 smaller modules. That leaves them with either: continuing to buy a vastly reduced amount of 2GB modules for the additional DevKit RAM, but now they're paying a lot more per 2GB module because they build a lot of DevKits, OR just buy a ton of 4GB modules, maximize their volume discount, put 1 in consumer Switches & 2 in the DevKits. No dev ever complained about more RAM anyways.
The TX1 only supports a 64bit memory bus. There won't be 3x chips. It will have been 2x3GB.

If you cut down to 1x4GB chips, you're only using a 32bit memory bus. You end up cutting your memory bandwidth in half.
 

skittzo0413

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,211
So will this be announced or released anytime soon? Will there ever be a safe time to buy this console?
Emily said she expects this to be announced by the end of August. It will almost certainly be released this year probably in September along with the Lite.

It will 100% be released within the next 177 days since they filed a short term confidentiality request with the FCC (180 days is the term, it was filed 3 days ago) regarding pictures of the chips used.
 

bytesized

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,574
Amsterdam
350 is more than I'd pay to play Switch exclusives, unless they did some magic on the hardware side and at least matched Xbox One graphics. I don't think that's possible right now. I think 200 for the Lite is a great price, and I would've paid 250 if it did TV out.

But... if Switch had a good Stadia client it might push me over the edge.
Great avatar, love NOU
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,284
from the twitter thing
- Original T210 hardware line had 2 form factors: nx-abca2 (retail and EDEV) and nx-abcb (SDEV);
- New T214 hardware line has 3 form factors: nx-abca2, nx-abcb and nx-abcc (these 3 forms exist for *both* Lite and "New");


what is the 3rd form factor then if both lite and "new" have
nx-abca2 is retail and edev
nx-abcb is SDEV
nx-abcc is ????

the great mystery
Devkits?
 

10k

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,956
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
This new sku is essentially an Xbox One S revision. A modest boost to clock speeds that will replace the standard switch, but not significant enough to require patches of games and having enhanced modes for the games.

The One S needed the extra power to upscale games to 4k and display HDR, the unintentional benefit of that was games with dynamic resolutions and variable framerates dropped less. But no dev configurations were used to take advantage of the S's boosts.

I imagine the New Switch (which I call XL because it follows the DS naming conventions, OG, lite, XL) won't have "XL Enhanced" ports. Just all the games that are dynamic resolution are gonna hit closer to 720p undocked and 900p or 1080p docked. And framerates stay 30fps or 60fps more consistently.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,105
This new sku is essentially an Xbox One S revision. A modest boost to clock speeds that will replace the standard switch, but not significant enough to require patches of games and having enhanced modes for the games.

The One S needed the extra power to upscale games to 4k and display HDR, the unintentional benefit of that was games with dynamic resolutions and variable framerates dropped less. But no dev configurations were used to take advantage of the S's boosts.

I imagine the New Switch (which I call XL because it follows the DS naming conventions, OG, lite, XL) won't have "XL Enhanced" ports. Just all the games that are dynamic resolution are gonna hit closer to 720p undocked and 900p or 1080p docked. And framerates stay 30fps or 60fps more consistently.
I think it’s it a little better than the Xbox S comparison, more like in between a S and X when it comes to Nintendo standards

Xbox S gpu was improved by 7% this new switch gpu is closer to 35-50% increase in efficiency or power which ever they choose
 

Tron1

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,656
I think it’s it a little better than the Xbox s comparison, more like in between a S and X when it comes to Nintendo standards

Xbox s gpu was improved by 7% this new switch gpu is closer to 35-50% increase in efficiency or power which ever they choose
I don’t know why but people just seem to want to downplay it as much as possible. I mean no one knows for sure and maybe people don’t want to get their hopes up. I just don’t believe especially with this info that they will put in new more efficient chip just for 1-2 hours of improved battery life.
 

Gurgelhals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
679
This new sku is essentially an Xbox One S revision. A modest boost to clock speeds that will replace the standard switch, but not significant enough to require patches of games and having enhanced modes for the games.

The One S needed the extra power to upscale games to 4k and display HDR, the unintentional benefit of that was games with dynamic resolutions and variable framerates dropped less. But no dev configurations were used to take advantage of the S's boosts.

I imagine the New Switch (which I call XL because it follows the DS naming conventions, OG, lite, XL) won't have "XL Enhanced" ports. Just all the games that are dynamic resolution are gonna hit closer to 720p undocked and 900p or 1080p docked. And framerates stay 30fps or 60fps more consistently.
Devs would still need to patch their games to make use of the higher clock frequencies. The Switch OS handles clock speeds by providing a set of performance profiles which set the frequency of the CPU, the GPU and the RAM. Actual games set the frequency at which they run by specifically selecting one of those performance profiles provided by the OS.

This means that, if the new Switch is able to run at higher frequencies, Nintendo will add corresponding performance profiles to the OS and games would then have to be patched to actually make use of them. Otherwise, they will just run on the clock frequencies for the old 2017 Switch.