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Developing: Epic Games Launcher appears to collect your steam friends & play history (Up2: Valve responds, See Threadmarks)

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Detail

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,946
texhnolyze said:
Eurogamer. Tim's response is out of this world.

Like what the hell? So they'll keep it running if no one noticed it?
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That's a blatant lie from Tim anyway, if people believe that then I have some snake oil to sell them.

Kareha said:
Like I said, gaming sites don't give a fuck, they are not your friends. They are only friendly with publishers who provide them with PR copy to spew out and free games to keep them on side.
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I don't use gaming websites to be honest for that very reason, I signed up on Resetera because it has a great community and so I could get some honest opinions about games in the same way I watch certain YouTube channels for honest opinions.

Gaming websites these days are little more than paid promotions imo.
 
Mentalist

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
17,971
BeImonkey said:
Why does everyone seem to be going to bat for Epic quite a lot lately in spite of the recent outcries over their activity?
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Because everyone complaining about epic only does so because they love Steam.

And Steam is bad.

So epic is good.

Competition.


Also, maybe the fact that Epic promises a "referral fee" to content creators might have something to do with how it's viewed. I dunno.
 
InquisitorAles

InquisitorAles

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,201
Belarus
Javetus said:
So... the media portrayed it like ''not a big deal''?
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Eurogamer published this few hours ago - https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...uncher-accesses-steam-data-without-permission
Epic responds to accusations its launcher accesses Steam data without permission

Epic has responded to growing concern its launcher accesses users' Steam data without permission.
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Vogel's post sparked a number of responses from users wondering why Epic's launcher did all this behind the scenes work in the first place - and apparently without permission. As redditor eorl put it: "My profile on Steam is set to private, yet you are snooping around my local disk scanning Steam and I've not even connected Steam to Epic.
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Despite Epic's attempt to clear up how the Epic Games store actually works, user scrutiny and scepticism doesn't look like it's going anywhere. There appears to be a groundswell of discontent at the company's attempt to disrupt Valve's control over the PC gaming market, and a pushback on the drive for Epic Games store exclusives from the hardcore PC gaming community.

Of course, it's early days for the Epic Games store, which only launched in December 2018. Still, in just a few months, it's certainly set the cat among the pigeons.
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BeI

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,974
Thinkdifferent said:
Either that or Epic have paid them off, considering they are buying exclusives from developers that wouldn't surprise me tbh but that's just conjecture on my part.
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So basically Epic's "Influencer" program of having people / streamers advertise games expanded to gaming news outlets promoting the Epic store and criticizing the competition? Seems a bit too farfetched. Something like that probably would have been found out sooner than this, I would have thought.
 
Doomshine

Doomshine

Member
Oct 30, 2017
262
I think some of it has to with a lof of gaming press being friends with developers, so they're going to take their side on this.
 
Armaros

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
I'm sure games media will do follow up to make sure Epic stops scrapping Steam User data? Right?

Yeah I thought so.
 
Detail

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,946
InquisitorAles said:
Eurogamer published this few hours ago - https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...uncher-accesses-steam-data-without-permission
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"Despite Epic's attempt to clear up how the Epic Games store actually works, user scrutiny and scepticism doesn't look like it's going anywhere. There appears to be a groundswell of discontent at the company's attempt to disrupt Valve's control over the PC gaming market, and a pushback on the drive for Epic Games store exclusives from the hardcore PC gaming community"

This should read as:

"Despite Epic's attempt at trying to cover up for their wrongdoings and not rectifying the issues which people are rightly concerned about, user worries and healthy complaints about the service doesn't look like they are going anywhere. There is a pushback from gamers at Epic's anti-consumer attempts of using exclusives to force people to their storefront and removing user choice of where they purchase products whilst delivering unacceptable levels of customer service and a subpar product in comparison to other gaming storefronts."
 
Mentalist

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
17,971
BeImonkey said:
So basically Epic's "Influencer" program of having people / streamers advertise games expanded to gaming news outlets promoting the Epic store and criticizing the competition? Seems a bit too farfetched. Something like that probably would have been found out sooner than this, I would have thought.
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I doubt it's as overt as that, but it doesn't need to.

If the media outlet, or an individual journalist is included in the list of the "support a creator" eligible referrers, than even if they aren't directly linked to epic, it's going to influence their opinion and make them view Epic in a more positive light, creating a subtle bias towards epic because "they care about me!". That bias will colour your perception of the conflict, especially if on the other side you have valve, doing no PR, responding on Valve time, etc

It's both insidious and brilliant, really. And really fucking scary, too.
 
Detail

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,946
BeImonkey said:
So basically Epic's "Influencer" program of having people / streamers advertise games expanded to gaming news outlets promoting the Epic store and criticizing the competition? Seems a bit too farfetched. Something like that probably would have been found out sooner than this, I would have thought.
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Maybe it is, I think in terms of the media outlets it's probably more down to personal bias and disliking Steam and it's policies in regards to curation rather than them being paid off but I still have a niggling doubt in the back of my mind.

Everything that Epic has done so far as made me question their integrity, maybe it's my own paranoia.

Mentalist said:
I doubt it's as overt as that, but it doesn't need to.

If the media outlet, or an individual journalist is included in the list of the "support a creator" eligible referrers, than even if they aren't directly linked to epic, it's going to influence their opinion and make them view Epic in a more positive light, creating a subtle bias towards epic because "they care about me!". That bias will colour your perception of the conflict, especially if on the other side you have valve, doing no PR, responding on Valve time, etc

It's both insidious and brilliant, really. And really fucking scary, too.
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This as well, very good point.
 
ShinUltramanJ

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,949
Thinkdifferent said:
"Despite Epic's attempt to clear up how the Epic Games store actually works, user scrutiny and scepticism doesn't look like it's going anywhere. There appears to be a groundswell of discontent at the company's attempt to disrupt Valve's control over the PC gaming market, and a pushback on the drive for Epic Games store exclusives from the hardcore PC gaming community"

This should read as:

"Despite Epic's attempt at trying to cover up for their wrongdoings and not rectifying the issues which people are rightly concerned about, user worries and healthy complaints about the service doesn't look like they are going anywhere. There is a pushback from gamers at Epic's anti-consumer attempts of using exclusives to force people to their storefront and removing user choice of where they purchase products whilst delivering unacceptable levels of customer service and a subpar product in comparison to other gaming storefronts."
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Why put it that way when you can spin it as the old guard being resistant to a scrappy newcomer?

It's sickening how Epic's getting a free pass on everything they do.
 
Lesthe

Lesthe

Alt-account
Banned
Feb 19, 2019
112
France
Maintenance said:
Just another day in C O M P E T I T I O N news.

Not a single bit surprised, when something is free, you're the product.
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I'm wondering what Google, Apple, Microsoft, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook and other good guys are sharing about all of us.

"You know, Privacy, we really are The Last of Us."
 

Sandersson

Banned
Feb 5, 2018
2,535
Thinkdifferent said:
"Despite Epic's attempt to clear up how the Epic Games store actually works, user scrutiny and scepticism doesn't look like it's going anywhere. There appears to be a groundswell of discontent at the company's attempt to disrupt Valve's control over the PC gaming market, and a pushback on the drive for Epic Games store exclusives from the hardcore PC gaming community"

This should read as:

"Despite Epic's attempt at trying to cover up for their wrongdoings and not rectifying the issues which people are rightly concerned about, user worries and healthy complaints about the service doesn't look like they are going anywhere. There is a pushback from gamers at Epic's anti-consumer attempts of using exclusives to force people to their storefront and removing user choice of where they purchase products whilst delivering unacceptable levels of customer service and a subpar product in comparison to other gaming storefronts."
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Love the "Valve's control over the PC market." This is embarrasing.
 
Danzflor

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Noodle said:
Or maybe, just maybe, companies shouldn't scrape my local data without my permission in violation of the law? You ever think of that, genius?
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After years of using the internet and the whole Facebook fiasco, one should believe people have learned to not trust corporations and care about their privacy. And anyway, none of you were gonna use Epic Games Store after all since it was already evil on your eyes. I do believe all of this has been blown way out of proportions. It's not like Epic Games is taking some sensible, truly personal/compromisable data from you, and this is not gonna be "the first step into taking it all". No. Companies know that going too far is gonna be disastrous PR.

Also, I believe all of this talk was already disproven? The dude who announced the "discovery" on Reddit proclaimed he was an amateur and got wrecked when more experienced people tried to prove what he was saying.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,441
Nome said:
Maybe, maybe not. You can either believe that a massive, successful company is outright lying about illegal data collection, or you can believe that there's some other method. I'm hoping Sweeney or someone else clears this point up, but there are other ways to obtain this sort of information either directly or indirectly.

For example, once the Steam friend import feature was launched, they could simply review what proportion of clients generated the local file; no need to upload or analyze the file itself.
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Nome said:
Did you read my last sentence? They don't need any Steam data to figure this out.
1. Fortnite client detects Steam on local machine
2. Fortnite client makes local copy of Steam file
3. Fortnite client sends notification to Epic servers that it ran the Steam detection feature
4. Sergey looks at how many Fortnite clients reported they ran the feature

Done.
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I think I'd argue that the fact you possess a given piece of data is itself a valid piece of data. That said, I don't actually know what GDPR says on that front.
 
Armaros

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
Danzflor said:
After years of using the internet and the whole Facebook fiasco, one should believe people have learned to not trust corporations and care about their privacy. And anyway, none of you were gonna use Epic Games Store after all since it was already evil on your eyes. I do believe all of this has been blown out way of proportions. It's not like Epic Games is taking some sensible, truly personal/compromisable data from you, and this is not gonna be "the first step into taking it all". No. Companies know that going too far is gonna be disastrous PR.

Also, I believe all of this talk was already disproven? The dude who announced the "discovery" on Reddit proclaimed he was an amateur and got wrecked when more experienced people tried to prove what he was saying.
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It's funny after 16 pages of this and you come here talking about that old Reddit post when the OP cleanly shows you how to find out what Epic is looking at yourself.

You came into this thread with an agenda, and that wasn't to read at least the OP and the Epic response acknowledging they are looking into you Local steam files.
 
AncientReptileBrain

AncientReptileBrain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,454
i kind of tried to interrogate why i was so initially dismissive beyond, you know, total arrogance and a misunderstanding of what was happening -- and setting aside the fact that the last page of the thread kind of dips well over from "this is a shitty thing that epic have no right to do" to "follow the epic money to china they're paying off game journalists open your eyes sheeple" rhetoric that's just... a lot -- part of the reason is that my expectations for privacy on a multi-process shared file system operating system with an outgoing internet connection couldn't possibly be any lower in this the year of our lord 2019. it ain't good -- it's just that I kind of assume i'm being fucking owned most of the time. reading my steam gaming history is just such a low priority infraction that it barely registered as scandalous to me. there are so many other fires that are currently burning. and that isn't to say you shouldn't care about it or that it's ethical or anything like that, it's just... not the thing i'm losing sleep over right now. like, in the most cynical possible interpretation of what's happening, tencent knowing that i played stephen's sausage roll again last night is just... sure, I guess. enjoy.
 
Detail

Detail

Member
Dec 30, 2018
2,946
ShinUltramanJ said:
Why put it that way when you can spin it as the old guard being resistant to a scrappy newcomer?

It's sickening how Epic's getting a free pass on everything they do.
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Most media outlets are simply making this out to be people saying "I like Steam and I don't want change!" which might be true in some cases but for the most part it simply comes down to the fact that Epic are engaging in anti-consumer practices which is going to actively harm the PC gaming market.

Valve are not a monopoly at the end of the day, they are just popular with gamers because they have been around for a long time and lack competition.

Epic could have provided a storefront which offered better prices, free games, equal features to Steam (and more) and not forced people with exclusives and gave people the option to purchase keys where they wish to and I would bet money on the fact that if they did so, people would move over to them eventually and they would become the dominant storefront, something like that can't happen overnight however.

Instead they have decided to create a rift between developers and consumers, forced consumers to have no choice where they purchase games, have made user reviews opt-in and have a massive lack of features in comparison to Steam, not to mention bad customer service and trying to make the PC market a single ecosystem that they run (the very thing the media complain about Steam for, "lack of competition" and the thing Tim himself has complained about in the past.)

Now we also have all this stuff coming out about data and it makes it even more obvious that the main reason people are avoiding Epic is pretty much everything but "I like Steam and I don't want to change!" I would say that's pretty low on the list as to why people don't want to use it.
 
Veidt

Veidt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
511
RPS just published their take on this. Quoting a few bits:
Gamingchair detectives prodding at the Epic Games Launcher recently discovered that the client scans your Steam account, investigates what other software is running on your PC, does something with Internet browser root certificates and cookies… which led to the surprising conclusion that Epic, at the behest of Chinese part-owner Tencent, are spying on us and sending our data to the Chinese government for dark purposes. Mmmmmnooo, Epic responded, that is not what's happening. Ah, the Internet!
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Anti-Epic Store sentiments are riding high as they keep splashing megabucks on securing scloosies, and this was inevitable: someone with a little knowledge, enough to be dangerous, jumping to conspiratorial (and tbh kinda racist) conclusions.

Then amateur analysis was taken as fact and stripped of context and passed around the cybernet, prompting Epic to respond and try to clear it up.
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As much as I might like to see Epic's exclusives not be exclusive (which tbh isn't a MASSIVE amount because I have a half-dozen clients installed anyway), let's not go instantly buying into conspiracy theories just because they justify our dislikes, yeah?
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Lashley

Lashley

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Oct 25, 2017
59,918
Danzflor said:
After years of using the internet and the whole Facebook fiasco, one should believe people have learned to not trust corporations and care about their privacy. And anyway, none of you were gonna use Epic Games Store after all since it was already evil on your eyes. I do believe all of this has been blown way out of proportions. It's not like Epic Games is taking some sensible, truly personal/compromisable data from you, and this is not gonna be "the first step into taking it all". No. Companies know that going too far is gonna be disastrous PR.

Also, I believe all of this talk was already disproven? The dude who announced the "discovery" on Reddit proclaimed he was an amateur and got wrecked when more experienced people tried to prove what he was saying.
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Read the OP ffs, the steps are reproducable, it isn't disproven.
 

Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
Danzflor said:
After years of using the internet and the whole Facebook fiasco, one should believe people have learned to not trust corporations and care about their privacy. And anyway, none of you were gonna use Epic Games Store after all since it was already evil on your eyes. I do believe all of this has been blown way out of proportions. It's not like Epic Games is taking some sensible, truly personal/compromisable data from you, and this is not gonna be "the first step into taking it all". No. Companies know that going too far is gonna be disastrous PR.

Also, I believe all of this talk was already disproven? The dude who announced the "discovery" on Reddit proclaimed he was an amateur and got wrecked when more experienced people tried to prove what he was saying.
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Speaking of getting wrecked maybe you should try reading the OP before posting.
 
z1ggy

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,187
Argentina
Danzflor said:
After years of using the internet and the whole Facebook fiasco, one should believe people have learned to not trust corporations and care about their privacy. And anyway, none of you were gonna use Epic Games Store after all since it was already evil on your eyes. I do believe all of this has been blown way out of proportions. It's not like Epic Games is taking some sensible, truly personal/compromisable data from you, and this is not gonna be "the first step into taking it all". No. Companies know that going too far is gonna be disastrous PR.

Also, I believe all of this talk was already disproven? The dude who announced the "discovery" on Reddit proclaimed he was an amateur and got wrecked when more experienced people tried to prove what he was saying.
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Pretty funny, doesnt matter its sensible or not they shouldnt do it. Simple as that.
 
Danzflor

Danzflor

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Oct 27, 2017
1,710
Armaros said:
It's funny after 16 pages of this and you come here talking about that old Reddit post when the OP cleanly shows you how to find out what Epic is looking at yourself.

You came into this thread with an agenda, and that wasn't to read at least the OP and the Epic response acknowledging they are looking into you Local steam files.
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My bad if I have absolutely no worries or fucks to give about this, I just see this as more fuel to feed your unreasonable hate to the Epic Games Store. Companies have been stoling our data for literal years, from our hard drives (with software and access WE allow) and our social media, using the exact same methods, and now, just NOW we should worry?

If you truly care about your privacy you might as well dissapear from the internet already. Nuke your social media and move to UK and ask for the right to be forgotten. Otherwise we are all already fucked.
 
Lashley

Lashley

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Oct 25, 2017
59,918
Danzflor said:
My bad if I have absolutely no worries or fucks to give about this, I just see this as more fuel to feed your unreasonable hate to the Epic Games Store. Companies have been stoling our data for literal years, from our hard drives (with software and access WE allow) and our social media, using the exact same methods, and now, just NOW we should worry?

If you truly care about your privacy you might as well dissapear from the internet already. Nuke your social media and move to UK and ask for the right to be forgotten. Otherwise we are all already fucked.
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giphy.gif
 
Ge0force

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Danzflor said:
My bad if I have absolutely no worries or fucks to give about this, I just see this as more fuel to feed your unreasonable hate to the Epic Games Store. Companies have been stoling our data for literal years, from our hard drives (with software and access WE allow) and our social media, using the exact same methods, and now, just NOW we should worry?

If you truly care about your privacy you might as well dissapear from the internet already. Nuke your social media and move to UK and ask for the right to be forgotten. Otherwise we are all already fucked.
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Are you serious?
 
Armaros

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
As I expected the games media will try to bury this because they don't really care about consumers.
 
m_dorian

m_dorian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,403
Athens, Greece
Danzflor said:
My bad if I have absolutely no worries or fucks to give about this, I just see this as more fuel to feed your unreasonable hate to the Epic Games Store. Companies have been stoling our data for literal years, from our hard drives (with software and access WE allow) and our social media, using the exact same methods, and now, just NOW we should worry?

If you truly care about your privacy you might as well dissapear from the internet already. Nuke your social media and move to UK and ask for the right to be forgotten. Otherwise we are all already fucked.
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Capital idea.

Instead of applying pressure to the companies to do what is right and proper let's abandon our hobby and the digital world.
Instead of not using products and services that offend our intelligence and dignity let's go herd sheep in the mountains.
And since we have been, in some way, victims of data theft in the past we should stop complaining about this and get used to be used by mega corporations because the people that have Danzflor's logic want to play their games no matter what and our complains annoy them.

How about no.
 
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