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Devil May Cry 5 is shaping up to be the action game of the generation

ALL OF THESE THOUGHTS RUNNIN' THROUGH MY HEAD


  • Total voters
    570
Oct 25, 2017
3,335
Yes.




Nico's Upgrade Van is available. You can upgrade certain abilities and acquire them like Enemy Step, Roulette Spin, Exceed 2, Ex-Act Shuffle and Air Hike.

It also as new demo mode plus (which is crucial, since it encourages demo replay allowing players to learn the mechanics a bit) and the Punchline Devil Breaker. A Devil Breaker that has like a ton of applications and depth.

Dahbomb didn't even know there was this a full-charge air release attack for Punchline, fun stuff.

There is a demo thread for more information here.
thank you. it can be daunting to weed through massive threads like that one, i appreciate you taking the time to address my question :)
 
Oct 28, 2017
267
I've literally spent hours just busting moves out in an empty street purely because the movement and combat mechanics feel so damn fun. I've never done this with a game before, and only ever finished previous DMC games with some educated button mashing. That changes with DMC5. I'm already looking into how to make .gifs and shit because of this game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,313
Singapore
Hilarious thread where DMC fanboys are so far up their own ass of self-worship bubble. DMCV will be a good and fine game, but it won't even be the most popular action game in March. The "poll" is just comically eye-rolling, and shows the maturity level of the fanbase!!!!!!!
 
Oct 30, 2017
6,777
Limits are what defines games, often more then just giving you all the tools all the time.
You're making a category mistake here. Some limits push players toward creative solutions. Others inhibit creativity, either by denying players access to a useful type of gameplay tool, or by imposing a handicap on a tool's use.

The Bayonetta series is unfortunately hampered by limits of the second type. Unlike the DMC series, Bayonetta's jump cancels and enemy steps can't be rapidly chained together in most cases. As if this weren't enough, Bayonetta 2 made basic enemies randomly break combos, added obnoxious delays to the startups of formerly useful attacks like the heel stomp (so, for example, players can no longer jump cancel a Wicked Weave stomp into a punch so quickly that they clip each other), and more egregious still, the game outright broke one of the most useful tools from the first game, Panther Offset.

In Bayo 1 you could transition to panther form between hits in a combo. You could do this so quickly that each canceled hit was invisible; you'd see only the initial frames of the panther transformation instead of the punch or kick. This allowed for combos like PPK to be shortened to the final extra powerful attack. You'd do punch -> panther mode -> punch -> panther mode -> kick, and all you'd see was two quick flickers and a massive Wicked Weave kick. Apparently, Platinum judged this technique to be too abusable in the first game, so in the sequel they baked a timer into panther mode so you have to insert a delay between canceled hits, effectively spoiling Panther Offset's primary functionality as a combo tool.

What the hell, right?

That's not to say Bayonetta's combat system doesn't afford players immense creative leeway, but it was designed without some of the modern DMC series' combat staples. In other cases, it outright handicaps players. In the case of the sequel, everything from Wicked Weaves to most forms of Dodge Offset were reworked to actively frustrate combo potential.

It's a weirdly antagonistic form of self-sabotage. It hardly matters if this was purposeful or not. The effect on the series' high level potential is the same either way. Doesn't Platinum want to raise the replay value of their games and encourage players to plumb the depths of their famously high quality combat systems?

Bayonetta 2's combat system changes aren't enough to constitute a pattern. The game had a different director than the first one, after all. But I'm worried about Bayonetta 3. Sure, more likely than not, it's going to be a top tier action game just from a design perspective, the specifics of the combat system aside. But will Platinum follow the first game and give high level players something to work with, or will they water down their best mechanics and impose an artificial skill ceiling like Bayonetta 2?

One thing's for sure: DMC5 doesn't have these issues. Itsuno is fully aware of the magic that expert players can work in DMC3 and 4, and he's built his latest game to support their creativity, not stifle it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
1,712
Hilarious thread where DMC fanboys are so far up their own ass of self-worship bubble. DMCV will be a good and fine game, but it won't even be the most popular action game in March. The "poll" is just comically eye-rolling, and shows the maturity level of the fanbase!!!!!!!
Eh... Gameplay isn't really FROM's forte as much as pure level design. Kinda hard to compare the two... And i'd bet on DMC5 outselling Sekiro anyway.

The only developer more overrated than FROM is PG.
 
Oct 25, 2017
145
Hilarious thread where DMC fanboys are so far up their own ass of self-worship bubble. DMCV will be a good and fine game, but it won't even be the most popular action game in March. The "poll" is just comically eye-rolling, and shows the maturity level of the fanbase!!!!!!!
 
Oct 25, 2017
777
Hilarious thread where DMC fanboys are so far up their own ass of self-worship bubble. DMCV will be a good and fine game, but it won't even be the most popular action game in March. The "poll" is just comically eye-rolling, and shows the maturity level of the fanbase!!!!!!!
Imagine being this upset by a poll.

DMCV is my dream game, so I’m with you on a personal level OP. But I dunno if it’ll be tops for others.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,463
Level design is the one area where I really want to see this series improve. DMC1 is still the best in that regard and that's an old ass game. The gradual loss of the Resident Evil DNA adversely affected the level design of DMC, Dino Crisis, and Onimusha. They don't have to go back to that(well I wish they would) but what they move forward with has to be better.

And man I want to see some of the stuff Itsuno learned from Dragon's Dogma applied here, I want the DMC version of Bitterblack Isle. Bloody Palace for pure combat post game and some ancient demon dungeon(story can be someone opened it trying to revive Mundus or whatever) with the most hardcore tough as shit enemies around.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,326
Hilarious thread where DMC fanboys are so far up their own ass of self-worship bubble. DMCV will be a good and fine game, but it won't even be the most popular action game in March. The "poll" is just comically eye-rolling, and shows the maturity level of the fanbase!!!!!!!
....It's a video game. Fans are excited. Let them have a good time.

And the poll was cute silliness.
 
Dec 5, 2017
183
You're making a category mistake here. Some limits push players toward creative solutions. Others inhibit creativity, either by denying players access to a useful type of gameplay tool, or by imposing a handicap on a tool's use.

The Bayonetta series is unfortunately hampered by limits of the second type. Unlike the DMC series, Bayonetta's jump cancels and enemy steps can't be rapidly chained together in most cases. As if this weren't enough, Bayonetta 2 made basic enemies randomly break combos, added obnoxious delays to the startups of formerly useful attacks like the heel stomp (so, for example, players can no longer jump cancel a Wicked Weave stomp into a punch so quickly that they clip each other), and more egregious still, the game outright broke one of the most useful tools from the first game, Panther Offset.

In Bayo 1 you could transition to panther form between hits in a combo. You could do this so quickly that each canceled hit was invisible; you'd see only the initial frames of the panther transformation instead of the punch or kick. This allowed for combos like PPK to be shortened to the final extra powerful attack. You'd do punch -> panther mode -> punch -> panther mode -> kick, and all you'd see was two quick flickers and a massive Wicked Weave kick. Apparently, Platinum judged this technique to be too abusable in the first game, so in the sequel they baked a timer into panther mode so you have to insert a delay between canceled hits, effectively spoiling Panther Offset's primary functionality as a combo tool.

What the hell, right?

That's not to say Bayonetta's combat system doesn't afford players immense creative leeway, but it was designed without some of the modern DMC series' combat staples. In other cases, it outright handicaps players. In the case of the sequel, everything from Wicked Weaves to most forms of Dodge Offset were reworked to actively frustrate combo potential.

It's a weirdly antagonistic form of self-sabotage. It hardly matters if this was purposeful or not. The effect on the series' high level potential is the same either way. Doesn't Platinum want to raise the replay value of their games and encourage players to plumb the depths of their famously high quality combat systems?

Bayonetta 2's combat system changes aren't enough to constitute a pattern. The game had a different director than the first one, after all. But I'm worried about Bayonetta 3. Sure, more likely than not, it's going to be a top tier action game just from a design perspective, the specifics of the combat system aside. But will Platinum follow the first game and give high level players something to work with, or will they water down their best mechanics and impose an artificial skill ceiling like Bayonetta 2?

One thing's for sure: DMC5 doesn't have these issues. Itsuno is fully aware of the magic that expert players can work in DMC3 and 4, and he's built his latest game to support their creativity, not stifle it.

Your not making an argument. You just say "This is a limit, it is bad limier. Beacuse I say so, and other games do it differently, so that makes that limit inherit bad, beacuse I personally don't like it."

This way I don't really think much of most DMC fans to actually talk about depth.

Edit: Like the heart of this is that it has things or doesn't have things that let the combos be longer.

But what meaning does yet longer combos add? You can already do super long combos, so what would letting them go on longer add? All the panther cancel does is add some rout steps to make combos longer and throw in a bit of a exaction barrier, but what do you gain? Why are long combos in and of themselves so valuable and meaningful? Like high level DMCIV combo vids play is often just doing the same thing you do at getting a perfect score, but for longer and having to deal with how unfriendly the controls are.
 
Last edited:
Oct 30, 2017
6,777
Your not making an argument. You just say "This is a limit, it is bad limier. Beacuse I say so, and other games do it differently, so that makes that limit inherit bad, beacuse I personally don't like it."

This way I don't really think much of most DMC fans to actually talk about depth.

Edit: Like the heart of this is that it has things or doesn't have things that let the combos be longer.

But what meaning does yet longer combos add? You can already do super long combos, so what would letting them go on longer add? All the panther cancel does is add some rout steps to make combos longer and throw in a bit of a exaction barrier, but what do you gain? Why are long combos in and of themselves so valuable and meaningful? Like high level DMCIV combo vids play is often just doing the same thing you do at getting a perfect score, but for longer and having to deal with how unfriendly the controls are.
I don't really see the point of engaging with you if you're going to reduce my post to a brainless strawman. If you can't see why the absence of DMC-style JCing restricts combat in a negative way, and you're just going to gloss over my explanation of the way Bayonetta handicaps players, then, uhh... there's not much more to be said, lol.

High level combos in both Bayonetta and the DMC series are about creatively stringing together attacks to control enemy states and positions. It just so happens that DMC 3 and 4 don't put a speed limit on the player. Bayonetta 1's time manipulation, Dodge Offset variants, and Wicked Weave system did open up some interesting combo possibilities, but compare the kind of gameplay you see here to high level Bayonetta play, and the difference is obvious. DMC4's speed, physics, and cancels really do make a difference. DMC4 Dante simply has a bigger tool set than Bayonetta, and a less restrictive framework to apply them in.

It's not about combo length, it's about variety, creativity, and pacing. Pushing the combat mechanics to the limit with novel use of each move's properties. If Bayonetta had a bit more weight, more command attacks as opposed to canned strings, and a faster universal cancel than her evasive flip, just imagine the possibilities.

Like, next time, why don't they give her unrestricted JCing and Dodge Offset (including the Panther and Crow variants. And bring back Taunt Offset for fun), and double down on the time manipulation with a mechanic based on the Lumen Sage's Light Speed? Bayonetta could snap her fingers to cancel whatever she's doing and either resume attacking or freeze time to rack up some hits, then unfreeze time to watch the effects of those attacks play out on the enemy. This could be balanced with damage scaling, or nullifying attack damage (but not physical force) from Light Speed completely under certain conditions. This mechanic would give Bayonetta a fast and versatile cancel and also lead to badass setups where the enemy gets pingponged between the attacks Bayonetta "recorded" in Light Speed and the attacks she's doing in real time.
 
Last edited:

OwOtacon

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 18, 2018
2,394
Yep. And this is coming from someone that would give a kidney to have The Wonderful 102.

The V combat seems very different, and the classic combat is better than ever.
 
Oct 27, 2017
14,387
You're making a category mistake here. Some limits push players toward creative solutions. Others inhibit creativity, either by denying players access to a useful type of gameplay tool, or by imposing a handicap on a tool's use.

The Bayonetta series is unfortunately hampered by limits of the second type. Unlike the DMC series, Bayonetta's jump cancels and enemy steps can't be rapidly chained together in most cases. As if this weren't enough, Bayonetta 2 made basic enemies randomly break combos, added obnoxious delays to the startups of formerly useful attacks like the heel stomp (so, for example, players can no longer jump cancel a Wicked Weave stomp into a punch so quickly that they clip each other), and more egregious still, the game outright broke one of the most useful tools from the first game, Panther Offset.

In Bayo 1 you could transition to panther form between hits in a combo. You could do this so quickly that each canceled hit was invisible; you'd see only the initial frames of the panther transformation instead of the punch or kick. This allowed for combos like PPK to be shortened to the final extra powerful attack. You'd do punch -> panther mode -> punch -> panther mode -> kick, and all you'd see was two quick flickers and a massive Wicked Weave kick. Apparently, Platinum judged this technique to be too abusable in the first game, so in the sequel they baked a timer into panther mode so you have to insert a delay between canceled hits, effectively spoiling Panther Offset's primary functionality as a combo tool.

What the hell, right?

That's not to say Bayonetta's combat system doesn't afford players immense creative leeway, but it was designed without some of the modern DMC series' combat staples. In other cases, it outright handicaps players. In the case of the sequel, everything from Wicked Weaves to most forms of Dodge Offset were reworked to actively frustrate combo potential.

It's a weirdly antagonistic form of self-sabotage. It hardly matters if this was purposeful or not. The effect on the series' high level potential is the same either way. Doesn't Platinum want to raise the replay value of their games and encourage players to plumb the depths of their famously high quality combat systems?

Bayonetta 2's combat system changes aren't enough to constitute a pattern. The game had a different director than the first one, after all. But I'm worried about Bayonetta 3. Sure, more likely than not, it's going to be a top tier action game just from a design perspective, the specifics of the combat system aside. But will Platinum follow the first game and give high level players something to work with, or will they water down their best mechanics and impose an artificial skill ceiling like Bayonetta 2?

One thing's for sure: DMC5 doesn't have these issues. Itsuno is fully aware of the magic that expert players can work in DMC3 and 4, and he's built his latest game to support their creativity, not stifle it.
Man you could have written this entire post in mandarin for the amount of it I understood.
 
Dec 29, 2017
2,953
Not with Sekiro round the corner.

It will probably have better traversal, lore and difficulty curve but in terms of bosses, mechanics variety and core gameplay mechanics no way jose. Just good for different reasons.
From's bosses will smoke DMC is my prediction.
 
Last edited:
Oct 30, 2017
6,777
Man you could have written this entire post in mandarin for the amount of it I understood.
In a nutshell, Bayonetta makes you recover from attacks more slowly than DMC3 and 4, so combos are more limited. You can still knock enemies all over the place and then catch them with new attacks in Bayonetta; the DMC series just gives you a faster and better way to recover so you can bonk the enemy around the arena in a more complex manner.

There isn't that much of a difference between combos in Bayonetta 1 and DMC4. Mainly speed. High level DMC4 in turbo mode is fast. You can fit a lot more setups and position changes into 5 seconds than you can in Bayonetta.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,626
I don't really see the point of engaging with you if you're going to reduce my post to a brainless strawman. If you can't see why the absence of DMC-style JCing restricts combat in a negative way, and you're just going to gloss over my explanation of the way Bayonetta handicaps players, then, uhh... there's not much more to be said, lol.

High level combos in both Bayonetta and the DMC series are about creatively stringing together attacks to control enemy states and positions. It just so happens that DMC 3 and 4 don't put a speed limit on the player. Bayonetta 1's time manipulation, Dodge Offset variants, and Wicked Weave system did open up some interesting combo possibilities, but compare the kind of gameplay you see here to high level Bayonetta play, and the difference is obvious. DMC4's speed, physics, and cancels really do make a difference. DMC4 Dante simply has a bigger tool set than Bayonetta, and a less restrictive framework to apply them in.

It's not about combo length, it's about variety, creativity, and pacing. Pushing the combat mechanics to the limit with novel use of each move's properties. If Bayonetta had a bit more weight, more command attacks as opposed to canned strings, and a faster universal cancel than her evasive flip, just imagine the possibilities.

Like, next time, why don't they give her unrestricted JCing and Dodge Offset (including the Panther and Crow variants. And bring back Taunt Offset for fun), and double down on the time manipulation with a mechanic based on the Lumen Sage's Light Speed? Bayonetta could snap her fingers to cancel whatever she's doing and either resume attacking or freeze time to rack up some hits, then unfreeze time to watch the effects of those attacks play out on the enemy. This could be balanced with damage scaling, or nullifying attack damage (but not physical force) from Light Speed completely under certain conditions. This mechanic would give Bayonetta a fast and versatile cancel and also lead to badass setups where the enemy gets pingponged between the attacks Bayonetta "recorded" in Light Speed and the attacks she's doing in real time.

Sorry. I don't know why or who you are arguing with,but the idea that you came up with near the end of your post about bayonetta gameplay sounds pretty boss.
 
Dec 3, 2018
187
Honestly , capcom dropped it's guard by keeping dmc dormant for so long . Hungry action games fans didn't have any options besides bayonetta (filled with bugs and frame rate issues on the ps3) , bayonetta 2 (fast paced , qte heavy game) and the souls series which in all honesty many would not pick if we had more choices available (ffs , soulsborne games aren't even hardcore action games , they're RPGs) . It's been more than a decade since we saw a numbered sequel for dmc and new players have never played any dmc and quiet a few among the old ones have forgotten it . They do not understand this game and will only do so once it is out . And then they'll realize , Which game is KING . DMC is Baackkkkk ..
 
Last edited:
Oct 30, 2017
6,777
Sorry. I don't know why or who you are arguing with,but the idea that you came up with near the end of your post about bayonetta gameplay sounds pretty boss.
Haha, thanks!

It'll keep the throne warm for DmC2
The only category DmC excels in is reminding everyone why the rest of the series is so well regarded, DMC2 aside. It's actually hard to design deep action games with good animation and satisfying mechanics. Who knew?
 
May 11, 2018
941
Agree with OP. Been waiting for a proper character action game all gen, to be honest.

Why are some of y'all comparing apples (DMC) to oranges (From Soft games). They are nothing alike, their focus is on different mechanics, wtf? Also, the GoW comparisons are equally out of place.
Also, for those doing so (comparing it to Sekiro), whynotboth.gif?
March is gonna be insane for me.

 
Nov 14, 2017
9,116
Hilarious thread where DMC fanboys are so far up their own ass of self-worship bubble. DMCV will be a good and fine game, but it won't even be the most popular action game in March. The "poll" is just comically eye-rolling, and shows the maturity level of the fanbase!!!!!!!
I think dmc has a good shot at outselling Sekiro
 
Dec 7, 2017
5,883
Spain
Game of the Generation ? LOL, nope. I’m actually disappointed so far.

The level design is uninspired. The game is linear with invisible walls all over the place. It’s a game that is designed like games of 10 or 15 years ago ( KH3 is that you ? ). Bayonetta 2 was way more refreshing in that regard with a world that was changing all the time with jaw dropping and out of this world moments. I haven’t seen anything like that so far in DMC V.

I like the V character. I’ve got to give them that. Dante is underwhelming, where the charisma is gone ? Nero looks cool.

I’m also very disappointed by the graphics. Resident Evil 2 uses the same engine, but there are not in the same class. However, artistically theDMC V shines.

One last thing the gameplay is far too rigid and slow. Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden are still miles away ahead of the Devil May Cry series. The game plays better than the overrated Devil May Cry IV, at least, that’s that.
 
Nov 14, 2018
1,340
Costa Rica
Not with Sekiro round the corner.



From's bosses will smoke DMC is my prediction.
What aspect will be better in your opinion because gameplay-wise I dont see it being better. Lore-wise I do see it being more profound and interesting than DMC5 even tho I will definitely enjoy the story more in DMC5 due to the characters being so great and memorable.