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Devil May Cry 5 |OT| It's been 11 years since we last met. Where does the time go? [Now on Xbox Gamepass]

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
Cut-in is my preferred way of getting around quick on the ground. Want to separate an enemy Gerbera style? use the shotgun

Fireworks is still crowd control, double for the air in times when I have multiple bats or Cerberus' electric shock

One of Nero's best aerial tactics is calibur followed by jump cancelling, keeping them from falling and moving forward simultaneously. Charged air fireworks can replicate this.


You will notice that charged shots keep them in the air longer than non charged shots, if only for a second. Dante's air taunt is used for a knock up and can be combined with a shotgun shot to pop them up and keep them up even longer

Basically, it's a knockback pop up machine
Awesome, thanks man. I'll hit the void with these.

I usually use air and ground trick to cover distance quick but I'm always open to alternate ways of styling.
 
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Dahbomb

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
6,022
The Gunstinger has insane guard break properties, can even break Vergil out of his blocking animations instantly. Not to mention it blowing up projectiles easily like Summoned Swords.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
The Gunstinger has insane guard break properties, can even break Vergil out of his blocking animations instantly. Not to mention it blowing up projectiles easily like Summoned Swords.
The issue for me with that kind of stuff is that Dante already has so many tools to handle those situations that the shotgun just becomes another way to handle them instead of being a go-to tool.

For example Balrog's normal 3 hit kick combo easily breaks Vergil's guard. And when it comes to the shield Angelos or Chaos armor you can just (literally) throw the Cavalier at them and instantly break them.
 
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rahji

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
Man this game is so good. Every time I beat another game I come back to this game to S rank some more missions, just play mission 19 and 20 for fun or continue my Dante must die playthrough. Fantastic game.
 

Sibersk Esto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
The issue for me with that kind of stuff is that Dante already has so many tools to handle those situations that the shotgun just becomes another way to handle them instead of being a go-to tool.

For example Balrog's normal 3 hit kick combo easily breaks Vergil's guard. And when it comes to the shield Angelos or Chaos armor you can just (literally) throw the Cavalier at them and instantly break them.
Well that’s the great thing about DMC/character action games. You have the choice to use what you like best from the tools you have.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
Man this game is so good. Every time I beat another game I come back to this game to S rank some more missions, just play mission 19 and 20 for fun or continue my Dante must die playthrough. Fantastic game.
Ditto, it will probably end up as my most re-played game of this gen together with MGSV.

Well that’s the great thing about DMC/character action games. You have the choice to use what you like best from the tools you have.
Absolutely, especially in this game. Experimenting is pure joy.
 

Sibersk Esto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
So; what are people thinking of the story?
Solid, not as good as 3's. It isn't bogged down by ultra convoluted gobbledygook and delivers a nice straightforward action tale with charismatic characters and puts a nice bow around the end for long time fans of the series. I like the integration of the works of William Blake poetry with some of the series' longstanding themes. The non chronological storytelling works in some areas but not all the time.
 

OniBaka

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,168
Sydney
I tend to use shotgun a lot for my combo finishers. Here's an old one I had, really need to get back into it again.


I also use it a lot during million stabs, I'll cancel it with trickster dash and because my back is facing the enemy I can use backslide.
 
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Sibersk Esto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
Do we think Inertia and reversals should have a chance to come back as purchasable unlockables that can be toggled on/off like jump cancelling became or are they too drastic a change in how the game is played?
 
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Dahbomb

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
6,022
Do we think Inertia and reversals should have a chance to come back as purchasable unlockables that can be toggled on/off like jump cancelling became or are they too drastic a change in how the game is played?
I am assuming this is in reference to DMC5 and a possible SE.

There should be an option to toggle on reversals in the game. It's basically a toggle already and the mods merely turn it on and the game has reversals in the demo, it was a last minute change to prevent new players from accidentally doing these when they meant to do something else.

Inertia is a big change that you can't really turn off and on. It should be baked into the game as it is, it only has benefits.

I also think that Royal Guard recovery, Million Stab start up, Star Dash recovery and enemy step recovery all need to be reduced drastically to allow for pace of previous DMC games. These are changes that benefit players of all spectrum.

So; what are people thinking of the story?
Better than 1 and 4, worse than 3.
 
So; what are people thinking of the story?
Is this bait? This is bait, isn’t it?

Generally speaking it’s not hated, but not the best story either.
The pacing is way off. The beginning is kinda chaotic, then no real progress for a while and rushed at the end.
It lacks iconic interactions with bosses. You don’t have outstanding charactes like Agni & Rudra anymore, or that giant frog-thingy from DMC4 for example.
It is often frowned upon how bad Lady and Trish are treated.
It is nice to see some things getting canoned and have a little cameo. But a lot of things stay unanswered, and 5 itself opens even a few more questions.
The unlockable ending scene is dope and very satisfying.
There is a lot to roll your eyes over and the narrative is kinda all over the place. But it serves its purpose and most people are here for the gameplay anyway.
So it works well enough and Nero gets his moment to shine for future installments. Everything else comes down to your personal taste.

Better than 1 and 4, worse than 3.
What about 2, tho? 🤔
 

rahji

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
So I was wondering, does it have any advantage to use all 3 swords of Dante with irregular full custom? So far I only used the devil sword Dante, but I wonder if it worth using all 3 swords. The combo meter surely builds if you switch between swords right? I think I will do some tests tonight.
 

Narroo

Member
Feb 27, 2018
994
Is this bait? This is bait, isn’t it?

Generally speaking it’s not hated, but not the best story either.
The pacing is way off. The beginning is kinda chaotic, then no real progress for a while and rushed at the end.
It lacks iconic interactions with bosses. You don’t have outstanding charactes like Agni & Rudra anymore, or that giant frog-thingy from DMC4 for example.
It is often frowned upon how bad Lady and Trish are treated.
It is nice to see some things getting canoned and have a little cameo. But a lot of things stay unanswered, and 5 itself opens even a few more questions.
The unlockable ending scene is dope and very satisfying.
There is a lot to roll your eyes over and the narrative is kinda all over the place. But it serves its purpose and most people are here for the gameplay anyway.
So it works well enough and Nero gets his moment to shine for future installments. Everything else comes down to your personal taste.


What about 2, tho? 🤔
Not bait; just wanted to get a feel for the conversation before throwing in my two cents. Personally, I'd agree with what you're saying and say that the game focused so much on having the "Surprise Twist" that it undercut the rest of the narrative. V's story, in particular, goes nowhere. It was a kinda disappointing conclusion to the series's overarching story. That said, it wasn't terrible, and I loved quite a bit of the dialogue. Nico was definitely entertaining. If they ever do an SE version, I'd be interested in some cutscene editing and additions to fix some of the issues.

(And yes, I know that extreme action games aren't played for the story. But DMC3:SE had an oddly competent stiory, so it would have been nice to see that again.)
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
2,630
I guess you could rountrip Sparda and Rebellion and then do stuff with DSD on top. Which I suppose could also be stacked with DSD summon swords and sword formation.

Having instant access to prop shredder would be better than the weird prop shredder combo they gave DSD.
 

Sibersk Esto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
So I was wondering, does it have any advantage to use all 3 swords of Dante with irregular full custom? So far I only used the devil sword Dante, but I wonder if it worth using all 3 swords. The combo meter surely builds if you switch between swords right? I think I will do some tests tonight.
TL:DW, Sparda actually has the highest damage output of all the swords + round trip. Rebellion is redundant but sure you could use if for style stacking. You risk ending up with too many weapons to cycle through if you aren’t careful
V's story, in particular, goes nowhere
It uh, goes to him becoming Vergil again. One who isn’t as super obsessed anymore particularly because of the perspective that being V gave him.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
The DSD is so damn good that I haven't bothered with any of the other swords.

Its moveset and the Swordmaster functionality are brilliant.

I tend to use shotgun a lot for my combo finishers. Here's an old one I had, really need to get back into it again.


I also use it a lot during million stabs, I'll cancel it with trickster dash and because my back is facing the enemy I can use backslide.
Awesome combo man.
 
Not bait; just wanted to get a feel for the conversation before throwing in my two cents.
I was making fun of myself - I have an embarrasing history of throwing a tantrum over 5's story. 😶
Personally, I'd agree with what you're saying and say that the game focused so much on having the "Surprise Twist" that it undercut the rest of the narrative. V's story, in particular, goes nowhere. It was a kinda disappointing conclusion to the series's overarching story. That said, it wasn't terrible, and I loved quite a bit of the dialogue. Nico was definitely entertaining.
Absolutely. Their mystery (and you can argue how good of a mystery it is to begin with) limits the interactions the characters could have a lot. All this hide and seek and beating around the bush.
My fav is Griffon. His humour clicked well with me. :3
If they ever do an SE version, I'd be interested in some cutscene editing and additions to fix some of the issues.
Nah, that's not going to happen. All they ever did for the SEs is adding a short intro and outro cutscene for the new campaign.
They follow their old trend with additional story in novel and manga.
(And yes, I know that extreme action games aren't played for the story. But DMC3:SE had an oddly competent stiory, so it would have been nice to see that again.)
I'm totally in the same boat. 🤗
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,844
(And yes, I know that extreme action games aren't played for the story. But DMC3:SE had an oddly competent stiory, so it would have been nice to see that again.)
DMC3's story is so bizarrely good it almost feels like an accident, especially since 4 and 5 had the same writer and cutscene director.
 
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Dahbomb

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
6,022
DMC3 is definitely an anomaly not just for DMC but also for Capcom in general.
 

Gbraga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,031
Just installed my first SSD. The loadings in DMC5 seem faster, but the amount of them is still too annoying for Heaven or Hell. Missions are over so quickly that I spend more time skipping cutscenes and staring at the loading screen than playing. Not sure I'll ever do the gimmick difficulties in this game.

Having a lot of fun with Bloody Palace, though. I missed this game. :D
 

OniBaka

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Oct 25, 2017
1,168
Sydney
Modifying enemy health and difficulty on PC so they last longer when you combo makes BP a lot more fun.
 
Jun 22, 2019
376
As of SoS difficulty and getting Bringer (and particularly Bringer Knuckle) I now have much frustration with never being satisfied with any button layout I try for Nero. It took me ages to pick and settle for one I was happy with at game start as is, and then all the Bringer techniques complicated it just enough where my mind short circuits.

Most of my issues are probably just personal mental hang-ups about my desire to regularly use all my available techniques, but geez did it put a damper on playing through SoS.

Although the PS4 controller's design probably isn't helping, because I loathe how it feels to use my middle fingers on the triggers (occasionally is fine, but I hate it for holding or for repeated actions like exceed).

Now every time I play as Nero I feel like I'm fighting the controls rather than the demons.

Dante on the other hand is fine. Never felt like the controls were torturing me while I play him.
 

Gbraga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,031
As of SoS difficulty and getting Bringer (and particularly Bringer Knuckle) I now have much frustration with never being satisfied with any button layout I try for Nero. It took me ages to pick and settle for one I was happy with at game start as is, and then all the Bringer techniques complicated it just enough where my mind short circuits.

Most of my issues are probably just personal mental hang-ups about my desire to regularly use all my available techniques, but geez did it put a damper on playing through SoS.

Although the PS4 controller's design probably isn't helping, because I loathe how it feels to use my middle fingers on the triggers (occasionally is fine, but I hate it for holding or for repeated actions like exceed).

Now every time I play as Nero I feel like I'm fighting the controls rather than the demons.

Dante on the other hand is fine. Never felt like the controls were torturing me while I play him.
If you're not one of the players who absolutely must be charging shots every second, I personally just swapped Devil Trigger and Break Away for muscle memory reasons and everything worked fine. R2 is good to tap for the ora ora things. Still don't know what they're called.
 
Jun 22, 2019
376
If you're not one of the players who absolutely must be charging shots every second
I am one of those, lol.

Also I tried pretty much every type of remapping already outside of putting jump and attack on the bumpers/triggers. I did a whoooole lot of testing.

Settled for
L1 gun
L2 trigger
R2 bringer
[ ] Exceed
Dpad breakaway

But as I said, I'm still not content despite being pretty sure this is the best for me, outside of getting an adapter to use non-PS4 controllers where my middle fingers don't feel awful being on L2 and R2.

I do think Exceed is an awesome mechanic, but personally I've grown kind of annoyed at it the longer I played Nero, but then add Devil Knuckle on top of it, and I'm flipping tables. Tempted to play without those 2 mechanics but then I always feel like I'm squandering the character's potential and playstyle. I do think Nero's toolkit has become a bit too convoluted. Dante has a wider arsenal but he cycles through it and thus it feels more manageable, whereas Nero has all these near-simultaneous tools that are rather awkward to time together repeatedly and end up frying my brain.

But yeah at least Dante is a blast and I don't have any weird gripes about controlling him (I just suck, but that's a separate issue that doesn't impede my fun).

V is... uh, I could take him or leave him. I just wish the cat didn't randomly stray away from an enemy when I'm holding its charge attack. It often returns within enemy range but it kills a a lot of time doing so. Otherwise he's a simple puppet character who sorta feels like he came out of a different game.
 

Sibersk Esto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
I am one of those, lol.

Also I tried pretty much every type of remapping already outside of putting jump and attack on the bumpers/triggers. I did a whoooole lot of testing.

Settled for
L1 gun
L2 trigger
R2 bringer
[ ] Exceed
Dpad breakaway

But as I said, I'm still not content despite being pretty sure this is the best for me, outside of getting an adapter to use non-PS4 controllers where my middle fingers don't feel awful being on L2 and R2.

I do think Exceed is an awesome mechanic, but personally I've grown kind of annoyed at it the longer I played Nero, but then add Devil Knuckle on top of it, and I'm flipping tables. Tempted to play without those 2 mechanics but then I always feel like I'm squandering the character's potential and playstyle. I do think Nero's toolkit has become a bit too convoluted. Dante has a wider arsenal but he cycles through it and thus it feels more manageable, whereas Nero has all these near-simultaneous tools that are rather awkward to time together repeatedly and end up frying my brain.

But yeah at least Dante is a blast and I don't have any weird gripes about controlling him (I just suck, but that's a separate issue that doesn't impede my fun).

V is... uh, I could take him or leave him. I just wish the cat didn't randomly stray away from an enemy when I'm holding its charge attack. It often returns within enemy range but it kills a a lot of time doing so. Otherwise he's a simple puppet character who sorta feels like he came out of a different game.
Can I ask how often you’re using those mechanics? Because honestly while I love the Devil Bringer I wasn’t using it often enough for it to feel like an intrusion. Just on knockback moves where I didn’t want the enemy to run or in long animations like Gerbera’s beam or showdown.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
V is... uh, I could take him or leave him. I just wish the cat didn't randomly stray away from an enemy when I'm holding its charge attack. It often returns within enemy range but it kills a a lot of time doing so. Otherwise he's a simple puppet character who sorta feels like he came out of a different game.
Not really, he may be a unique take on an action game character but his gameplay feels very much DMC at the core.

The panther functions like Dante/Nero swords and Griffin functions like a gun in Gunslinger.

The separation of the 'weapons' from the character is super interesting. Being able to attack and shoot at the same time while freely being able to move, dodge, read poetry, taunt and parry is very cool and very unique.

On my latest playthrough I had V playing the violin while the trio were destroying Proto Angelos, Reapers etc. in the background.

Couldn't help but smile.

As I've mentioned before the only real negative for me with V is that we will likely never see him again and his unique play style won't be taken to the next level, like Dante's was between DMC1 and DMC3 and Nero's between DMC4 and DMC5.
 
DMC3's story is so bizarrely good it almost feels like an accident, especially since 4 and 5 had the same writer and cutscene director.
This.
My only gripe with 3 is the quite abrupt beginning. There is already beef going on between the two, and Dante mentions that one year since they last met. If you are unprepared, you wonder about what's going on and has happened before.
I thought it would be explained throughout the game and was baffled, that whenever they meet, talk some semi-helpful crap that's not getting me that much wiser.
Then I learned about the prequel manga. Oh, that will explain things! Yeah, well. Not that much. And unfinished. But a nice read anyway.

I'd like to shed some love on 1's story, too.
It is far from unique, new and special, just your quite basic revenge story. But I like the tweak with Trish looking like his mother instead of the usual love interest femme fatal, that lures the main character in. Made Dante already special in that regard. And I like the gesture when he leaves sword and amulet with dead Trish behind, his whole family now resting there. Sadly they didn't flash out his final moments with Nelo. He hardly reacts to his brother.
 

Sibersk Esto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
Not really, he may be a unique take on an action game character but his gameplay feels very much DMC at the core.

The panther functions like Dante/Nero swords and Griffin functions like a gun in Gunslinger.

The separation of the 'weapons' from the character is super interesting. Being able to attack and shoot at the same time while freely being able to move, dodge, read poetry, taunt and parry is very cool and very unique.

On my latest playthrough I had V playing the violin while the trio were destroying Proto Angelos, Reapers etc. in the background.

Couldn't help but smile.

As I've mentioned before the only real negative for me with V is that we will likely never see him again and his unique play style won't be taken to the next level, like Dante's was between DMC1 and DMC3 and Nero's between DMC4 and DMC5.
V's rather stagnant skill ceiling is probably the biggest knock against the character. Nero and Dante have a host of things to mess around with for replays but V's entire moveset is pretty basic and he gains nothing over the course of the campaign. So far the only real interesting piece of tech is royal fork stun locking.

If he had spent his campaign gaining new demons as weapons like he does in the prequel manga, with different demons acting as swords and devil trigger summons, with a bit more responsiveness I would bet he would feel better to play. Griffon's the only one with a personality anyway.

Nero in 4 was stripped down compared to Dante but still gained his DT and had certain moves that had some hidden nuances.

This could be expanded on in the sequel with a new character but I fear the divisiveness of the character will make the team scrap the idea.
 
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BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
V's rather stagnant skill ceiling is probably the biggest knock against the character. Nero and Dante have a host of things to mess around with for replays but V's entire moveset is pretty basic and he gains nothing over the course of the campaign. So far the only real interesting piece of tech is royal fork stun locking.

If he had spent his campaign gaining new demons as weapons like he does in the prequel manga, with different demons acting as swords and devil trigger summons, I would bet he would feel better to play. Griffon's the only one with a personality anyway.

This could be expanded on in the sequel with a new character but I fear the divisiveness of the character will make the team scrap the idea.
It's less the "divisiveness" of the character and more that he no longer has any reason to exist (story-wise).

And all that stuff about divisiveness and lack of tools/growth was the exact same stuff that people were saying about Nero after DMC4.

Look at where he is now after DMC5. People love him and a lot prefer him to Dante in gameplay. Most would have no problem with him taking over as protagonist now.

That being said another character that pales in comparison to Dante and Nero now is Vergil. He needs a lot more to him now to keep up with those two.

I could see them perhaps incorporating V's summon play style somehow into Vergil to give him that extra oomph.
 

Sibersk Esto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,170
It's less the "divisiveness" of the character and more that he no longer has any reason to exist (story-wise).

And all that stuff about divisiveness and lack of tools/growth was the exact same stuff that people were saying about Nero after DMC4.

Look at where he is now after DMC5. People love him and a lot prefer him to Dante in gameplay. Most would have no problem with him taking over as protagonist now.

That being said another character that pales in comparison to Dante and Nero now is Vergil. He needs a lot more to him now to keep up with those two.

I could see them perhaps incorporating V's summon play style somehow into Vergil to give him that extra oomph.
They would give Vergil his Doppelganger technique but I can’t see going more than that.

You could absolutely graft V’s playstyle on a new character though, there’s nothing preventing that.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
They would give Vergil his Doppelganger technique but I can’t see going more than that.

You could absolutely graft V’s playstyle on a new character though, there’s nothing preventing that.
If that's all they do then he's going to suck compared to Dante and Nero.

Vergil would be the perfect candidate to stick V's summon style onto. It would make story sense.

Imagine kicking ass with Vergil while at the same time wrecking enemies with multiple familiars and maybe even buffing/modifying him and/or his DT in various ways depending on the familiar.
 
Jun 22, 2019
376
Can I ask how often you’re using those mechanics?
Definitely trying to use Knuckle more than I should, considering how easy it is to have the bringer grab attack come out accidentally rather than the punch during the middle parts of sword combos. Bad exceeds at least have no penalty, bad Bringer Knuckles bring your combo to an end.

I really should reserve it just for the very start/end of sword combo chains and command moves. But it looks so cool though, lol.

The Bringer hold I use a bunch.

Battling the controls is always an issue that recedes with enough time, I'm just being salty about it.
I've definitely come to resent the PS4 controller shoulder design more though, lol.
 
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Dahbomb

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,022
DMC5 has received the Playstation Gold award of shipping over 500K copies in Asian regions.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
2,630
I have the Ora Oras on square, which is terrible for aerial rave and roulette. But I got to be charging my gun.

I have more trouble with Dante and accidentally activating gunslinger instead of royal guard on that dpad. Trying to block attacks with my guns 🤕
 

cubotauro

Member
Aug 28, 2019
857
I mean he tries to be but he keeps opening portals to hell and accidentally causing his demon side to massacre cities.
Accidentaly?

He was always a straight up villain in DMC 3 imo. Having a team-up and an emotional moment with Dante at the end of the game doesn't suddenly makes him an anti-hero.

I think V by himself, considering what he is and how he acts and feels about himself, did more to flesh out Vergil's character than "Vergil" himself.

Now I would definetly call him an antihero.
 

rahji

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
Today I finally beat mission 20 boss on SoS without a revive. this guy gets so aggressive in the second half that I have barely a window to attack. That is a big step for me.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
153
Accidentaly?

He was always a straight up villain in DMC 3 imo. Having a team-up and an emotional moment with Dante at the end of the game doesn't suddenly makes him an anti-hero.

I think V by himself, considering what he is and how he acts and feels about himself, did more to flesh out Vergil's character than "Vergil" himself.

Now I would definetly call him an antihero.
Exactly. Vergil has never been an anti-hero before DMC5. MAYBE anti-villain due to his noble code and wanting power to protect what matters, but that's a stretch.

Speaking of Vergil, I'm trying to decide to get either DMC5 or DMC3SE. Which one would people recommend?
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,640
Speaking of Vergil, I'm trying to decide to get either DMC5 or DMC3SE. Which one would people recommend?
If you haven't played either then both. Play 3SE before 5.

If you've played 3 vanilla then get 5 to finish the story.

If you just want to play as Vergil then get 3SE and, if you want more, 4SE.
 
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Ringten

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,193
Ok finished the game. First Devil May Cry and I got to say... bit mehhh.

I understand the combat has a lot of potential, and tbf I managed to get the hang of the combos I had unlocked by the end of the game. But I genuinely think the controls are just silly complicated for no reason.

A good game for some...but not for me unfortunately.

Also the Nico shop scenes. Not very tasteful. But besides that, story got quite interesting towards the end.
 
Accidentaly?

He was always a straight up villain in DMC 3 imo. Having a team-up and an emotional moment with Dante at the end of the game doesn't suddenly makes him an anti-hero.

I think V by himself, considering what he is and how he acts and feels about himself, did more to flesh out Vergil's character than "Vergil" himself.

Now I would definetly call him an antihero.
Well, one could call it accidently cause it is debatable if he forsaw what his demon half would do. (While I don’t think it makes that much of a difference in the end, tho.)

For me it’s the other way round. Vergil is more of an anit-hero in 3, while he’s closer to being a villain in 5.

In 3 his main goal is to get the sword to feel safe, driven by the horrible death of the mother. He doesn’t want to do anything in particular with it. He doesn’t want to fight/destroy someone nor does he want to rule the world/hell. His fights with Dante are part of the circumstances, but not his final goal. And both don’t seem to go all out on each other until the end, when there is no other way left.
He despises demons and never trusts Arkham and dislikes him as well. Upon defeat, he doesn’t pull anything shady. No final trick to throw Dante into the abyss and grab the sword. He sents him home and attempts to kill himself.
Arkham is the classic villain here. He has certainly evil intentions regarding Sparda’s power. He deceives and manipulates everyone und does the classic backstab. Sacrifices his family as well.

In 5 he has a certain and not so nice goal: defeat (or even straight up kill) Dante out of a very childish misunderstanding that seems false in so many ways. While V does good things here and there, he’s still very manipulative and lying to everyone. When he convices Nero to carry him on to Urizen, he secretly smiles very shady to himself. He merges back and has learned nothing – his goal is still the same. Like the boss in the final stage he’s waiting at the top for the hero.
The rushed ending with them suddenly teaming up against the tree and going into hell tries to twist that again, although Vergil states, he’s only doing so cause it may interrupt their fight.

Btw, not really the same thing, but Jester-Arkham is a bit like V-Urizen. ^^

Also the Nico shop scenes. Not very tasteful.
Huh?