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Devil May Cry 5 Review Thread (Current Scores: MetaCritic 88, OpenCritic 89)

Plum

Coward
May 31, 2018
4,747
It sounds like the issue is less the game itself and more a you problem. Especially given that you have trouble reading. The move literally tells what you it'll do, (and when you buy moves it literally has a video per move showing explicitly what it'll do and again, letting you try before you buy). How you can't see the benefits of launching na enemy into the air is beyond me. Continue the thought.
Launch enemy in the air----->I have air combos too----->Gee I wonder if I can use those two things in succession.
Posting the equivalent to "Git gud" and then saying I "have trouble reading," (especially when I wasn't even the one to bring up the launcher move in the first place) aren't great ways of making the game seem welcoming.

There becomes a point where some people need to be able to critically think for themselves. Not every mechanic needs a super in depth description and tutorial. Launch an enemy into the air. Does it look like the enemy you launched can continue to attack in the air? No? What do you thing the benefit of launchers are?
Again, the launcher move is not my issue here.

You are supposed to play with the controls and see what works and what doesnt work. If the devs were to lay out a combo path for you to know w5hnen and where to do each move for each enemy you'd take half of the fun right out of DMC. A large part of it is figuring out what combo works best for what situation and the devs shouldn't be telling you that.
I learned all this stuff by just playing DMC4, where the game tells you exactly what it all is. I’m actually not sure how much the DMC5 demo tells you since I was already familiar with the gameplay, but based on footage from early in the game and some screenshots on this very thread, the game’s tutorial is just as good as DMC4’s if not better since it has an actual training mode and you can actually try out moves before you buy them. No the game isn’t always gonna tell you every single implementation of each move because it wants you to experiment. That’s the beauty of it.
My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are. I had the same issue with Bayonetta 1+2, I had the same issue in MGR: Revengeance and I had the same issue in the Demo. I didn't have the same issue in games such as Dark Souls and Bloodborne despite those being equally hard and full of relatively complicated systems (albeit more systems-driven than mechanics-driven.). Stuff like the lack of healthbars, the unrelenting enemy attacks and the ranking system don't help at all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,615
That's not my problem, my problem is with these games failing to properly teach you how to create that player-driven spectacle. Look at it from the perspective of a new player like me instead of someone who's been with the series from the start and, as such, takes those more complicated moves and systems for granted.
Not everyone who enjoys these games is super hardcore and you shouldn't come away with the impression that you have to master everything from the get-go. I'm hoping this game has some kind of good tutorial or practice areas myself because the demo made me realize I've long since forgotten basic stuff like how Nero's sword works. I think the stylish technical gameplay is something to aspire to and it's fun to try and pull that stuff off, but don't let it (or elitists) intimidate you.

It's kinda funny, I played DMC1-4 and Bayonetta before I started to play these games the 'correct' way. I just played them to get through them and remembered them (especially 3) as being pretty damn hard. DmC was the point at which I was able to get a better grasp on the gameplay thanks to it being a bit slower and easier to understand. Afterwards when I replayed Bayo1, then went on to Bayo2 and W101 I was much much better than I had been previously. There's definitely value in these games holding your hand for a little bit and I'm curious what DMC5 will do. Not curious enough to want to look at previews though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,274
I'm just happy the game is being received well. Hopefully the sales are good too. I want this series to have a future.
The whole DmC reboot thing was so confusing from the get go considering at the time DMC4 was the best selling in the franchise. That’s typically, uh, not when you reboot.

Last gen capcom, man.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,218
Taiwan
The IGN review is actually really good and has some impressive gameplay. The guy was very solid at the game.
I know, here's my update:

Wow holy shit, you guys weren't kidding.

The IGN review is absolutely amazing, didn't expect to say this but it's even better than the East Allies one.
You can tell this guy knows his shit and he is quite a skilled DMC player as well. It really does look like a review coming from a DMC fan.

Great job Mitchell Saltzman, that review was

 
Nov 14, 2017
8,423
The whole DmC reboot thing was so confusing from the get go considering at the time DMC4 was the best selling in the franchise. That’s typically, uh, not when you reboot.

Last gen capcom, man.
it gave us a better dmc 5, dragon's dogma and a pretty good western action game, so there is that
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,218
Taiwan
The whole DmC reboot thing was so confusing from the get go considering at the time DMC4 was the best selling in the franchise. That’s typically, uh, not when you reboot.

Last gen capcom, man.
Yeah I don't get it either, what a weird strategy coming from a successful AAA company.
 

Odeko

The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
2,243
Midwest, USA
First of all it's kinda patronising to think that that's my issue with the game. Yes, I know that the "launch" move launches enemies; why do I need to launch enemies, what should I do once I've launched them, how do they benefit my gameplay? Secondly you ignored that I specifically referred to systems such as:
"The exceed system"
"Ex-Act"
"Enemy Step"
"Breakage button as part of a combo"
Etc. Does the game teach you those sorts of things in a way that a 'casual' like me can actually understand?



Yeah, that does make sense, but what I've always found in the games I've played is that they don't do a great job of showing how those moves actually affect enemies. In Bayonetta, for example, I could do 'x' amount of damage with a simpler combo or I could do a much more complicated combo (that, in the heat of the moment, would normally end up with me getting hit because enemies don't let up) for a mystery amount of extra damage.


That's better but it's still just putting stuff that's in the menu in a different context. Like that 'High Roller' move, do I press RB + Y + Stick Back at the same time, do I do it one after another, it's just not clear (I do know how to do that move). It also doesn't explain any of the benefits to using those moves and, as I said above with the Bayonetta example (which holds true from what I've played of the demo, it doesn't do that very well in gameplay either.



I might get it and just sell it after one playthrough. Like I said, I really do miss rentals sometimes.



That's not my problem, my problem is with these games failing to properly teach you how to create that player-driven spectacle. Look at it from the perspective of a new player like me instead of someone who's been with the series from the start and, as such, takes those more complicated moves and systems for granted.
I don’t mean this to be condescending, but maybe try approaching it with a new attitude? Not every game needs to spill its guts and explain every quirk of every design decision to the player. Try approaching it like a mysterious puzzle box where every new dial you press and knob you turn opens up a new surprising mechanism to explore. The game of DMC isn’t doing launchers because enemy X has a certain weak spot that opens up and takes 23% damage in the air, it’s playing around with all the in-depth options to find your own unique way of SSSing a tough boss.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,763
Posting the equivalent to "Git gud" and then saying I "have trouble reading," (especially when I wasn't even the one to bring up the launcher move in the first place) aren't great ways of making the game seem welcoming.



Again, the launcher move is not my issue here.





My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are. I had the same issue with Bayonetta 1+2, I had the same issue in MGR: Revengeance and I had the same issue in the Demo. I didn't have the same issue in games such as Dark Souls and Bloodborne despite those being equally hard and full of relatively complicated systems (albeit more systems-driven than mechanics-driven.). Stuff like the lack of healthbars, the unrelenting enemy attacks and the ranking system don't help at all.
What feedback are you looking for? There are health bars. You can literally see their health whittle away as you combo them. The starting enemies are punching bags intended for you to learn the controls. The scythe guys don’t flinch to every hit you do but if you launch them, they’re defenseless, so hey let me launch them. After hitting the boss enough times, he goes down for the count, allowing you to just beat his ass however you want till he gets up letting you know “alright time to back up now and be less aggressive.”
 
Oct 26, 2017
15,370
My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are.
My dude, how are literal video demonstrations and a literal option to head to a training room to use a new move not enough for you?

Stuff like the lack of healthbars
There are health bars, notice the circle getting smaller per hit:

the unrelenting enemy attacks
Basic enemies in DMC are less aggressive on average because they're there to be styled on

and the ranking system don't help at all.
The ranking system is visual feedback on your ability to be creative.


All of your issues are self inflicted.
 
Last edited:

Plum

Coward
May 31, 2018
4,747
Not everyone who enjoys these games is super hardcore and you shouldn't come away with the impression that you have to master everything from the get-go. I'm hoping this game has some kind of good tutorial or practice areas myself because the demo made me realize I've long since forgotten basic stuff like how Nero's sword works. I think the stylish technical gameplay is something to aspire to and it's fun to try and pull that stuff off, but don't let it (or elitists) intimidate you.

It's kinda funny, I played DMC1-4 and Bayonetta before I started to play these games the 'correct' way. I just played them to get through them and remembered them (especially 3) as being pretty damn hard. DmC was the point at which I was able to get a better grasp on the gameplay thanks to it being a bit slower and easier to understand. Afterwards when I replayed Bayo1, then went on to Bayo2 and W101 I was much much better than I had been previously. There's definitely value in these games holding your hand for a little bit and I'm curious what DMC5 will do. Not curious enough to want to look at previews though.
Thanks for not being patronising lol

And yeah, there is value in a good practice mode. To me an empty room with one enemy to beat on is not a good practice mode; I'd much prefer something that was basically just regular gameplay but in a controlled environment where I don't have to worry about story, damage, enemies disappearing or being berated by the rating system. Trials Rising's tutorials are a good example of this. If that game has that then great, but all I've been told here is that I just "need to experiment" which simply doesn't help when this is a problem I've had in literally every other character action game I've played.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,524
Posting the equivalent to "Git gud" and then saying I "have trouble reading," (especially when I wasn't even the one to bring up the launcher move in the first place) aren't great ways of making the game seem welcoming.



Again, the launcher move is not my issue here.





My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are. I had the same issue with Bayonetta 1+2, I had the same issue in MGR: Revengeance and I had the same issue in the Demo. I didn't have the same issue in games such as Dark Souls and Bloodborne despite those being equally hard and full of relatively complicated systems (albeit more systems-driven than mechanics-driven.). Stuff like the lack of healthbars, the unrelenting enemy attacks and the ranking system don't help at all.
Ok I really don’t get your last few thoughts here.

Firstly, every enemy has a health bar. Like, every one. Bosses get big screen filling ones whilst normal guys get one whenever you lock on.

Second, how is the ranking system an example of not giving you feedback. It’s the most detailed feedback I can think of in maybe any game, it’s a running scoreboard of how you’re doing.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,643
My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are. I had the same issue with Bayonetta 1+2, I had the same issue in MGR: Revengeance and I had the same issue in the Demo. I didn't have the same issue in games such as Dark Souls and Bloodborne despite those being equally hard and full of relatively complicated systems (albeit more systems-driven than mechanics-driven.). Stuff like the lack of healthbars, the unrelenting enemy attacks and the ranking system don't help at all.
You can see enemy health bars by locking on, which you should be doing virtually ALL the time in a DMC game. Souls games have a different focus than these stylish action games. In Souls games, the primary objective is to survive.

As far as the feedback for your experiments go... that's really a matter of personal satisfaction and growth. Yeah the style ranking system exists to give you feedback but it's not fully accurate. The best thing I would recommend is paying attention to what spikes the style rank up. Hitting multiple enemies, hitting them in the air, changing up attacks, keeping hits going with no down time, not getting hit yourself etc. Then when you reach those high S ranks, try to maintain them as long as you can. Your game play will automatically adjust to accommodate it. Your style rank is going down because you are repeating attacks, so you start mixing it up. You get hit too often resulting in style bar dropping instantly, you try to get hit less by using the various defensive options. There is too much down time in between your attacks, so you use better mobility attacks to move between enemies or use stuff like Wire Snatch to close the distance etc.

You don't go at these games by trying to do everything at once. You learn a few moves, learn to do them well and in clutch situations then you add one at a time on top of it. The combat in these games is like playing in the sandbox, you get a new tool and that allows you to create something more with your existing tools that you couldn't before. But if you can't use your basic tools well enough then adding more tools is just going to create difficulties. This is a gradual process and the developers expect that you do this over the course of MULTIPLE playthroughs hence why the game has 4 difficulties.


If that game has that then great, but all I've been told here is that I just "need to experiment" which simply doesn't help when this is a problem I've had in literally every other character action game I've played.
The game does have a training mode system where you can set the parameters yourself. You can make the enemy be actively attacking you or be completely passive.
 
User Banned (3 Days): Pattern of trolling and antagonizing other members
YODELING @ the fact Bayonetta 1 & 2 both reviewed way better, (90+ legend), she remains QUEEN of this genre and video games in general, it simply can't be denied end of sentence and a period.

Poor Dante.
 
Aug 24, 2018
4,726
I'm just happy the game is being received well. Hopefully the sales are good too. I want this series to have a future.
Been a chart topper for months across all platforms and sold out on amazon best buy etc then re stocked and sold out again and still top charts.

Sales will surprise everyone in the best way possible.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,120
Posting the equivalent to "Git gud" and then saying I "have trouble reading," (especially when I wasn't even the one to bring up the launcher move in the first place) aren't great ways of making the game seem welcoming.



Again, the launcher move is not my issue here.

My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are. I had the same issue with Bayonetta 1+2, I had the same issue in MGR: Revengeance and I had the same issue in the Demo. I didn't have the same issue in games such as Dark Souls and Bloodborne despite those being equally hard and full of relatively complicated systems (albeit more systems-driven than mechanics-driven.). Stuff like the lack of healthbars, the unrelenting enemy attacks and the ranking system don't help at all.
It is possible that this genre isn't for you, and that isn't actually a real problem for other people to worry about.