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Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,894
I'm just happy the game is being received well. Hopefully the sales are good too. I want this series to have a future.

Been a chart topper for months across all platforms and sold out on amazon best buy etc then re stocked and sold out again and still top charts.

Sales will surprise everyone in the best way possible.
 

Jadusable

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,020
The game is so good that it's being used to boost poor Anthem.

Anthem May Cry.

yivWgw6.png

Based Dante saving videogames
 

badcrumble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,730
Posting the equivalent to "Git gud" and then saying I "have trouble reading," (especially when I wasn't even the one to bring up the launcher move in the first place) aren't great ways of making the game seem welcoming.



Again, the launcher move is not my issue here.

My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are. I had the same issue with Bayonetta 1+2, I had the same issue in MGR: Revengeance and I had the same issue in the Demo. I didn't have the same issue in games such as Dark Souls and Bloodborne despite those being equally hard and full of relatively complicated systems (albeit more systems-driven than mechanics-driven.). Stuff like the lack of healthbars, the unrelenting enemy attacks and the ranking system don't help at all.
It is possible that this genre isn't for you, and that isn't actually a real problem for other people to worry about.
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,560
I'm just happy the game is being received well. Hopefully the sales are good too. I want this series to have a future.

Yup, I don't care much about review scores, just want them to be generally positive, and it looks that way.

I just hope it sells well enough to meet whatever internal projections they have.
 

TheJollyCorner

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
9,463
Good to see it reviewing so well.
Happy for DMC fans that have waited so long.

... but man... the Bayonetta trolls... obnoxious. Some people just can't help themselves, huh?
Reminds me of all the shitposts in the Horizon: Zero Dawn review thread gloating about how much better Breath of the Wild is. Shit gets tiring.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR

why is he fake shouting lol

edit:
... but man... the Bayonetta trolls... obnoxious. Some people just can't help themselves, huh?
Reminds me of all the shitposts in the Horizon: Zero Dawn review thread gloating about how much better Breath of the Wild is. Shit gets tiring.
Nobody even talked about Bayonetta until someone said Bayo 2 was the DMC2 of the franchise, come on now.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,278
I don't mean this to be condescending, but maybe try approaching it with a new attitude? Not every game needs to spill its guts and explain every quirk of every design decision to the player. Try approaching it like a mysterious puzzle box where every new dial you press and knob you turn opens up a new surprising mechanism to explore. The game of DMC isn't doing launchers because enemy X has a certain weak spot that opens up and takes 23% damage in the air, it's playing around with all the in-depth options to find your own unique way of SSSing a tough boss.

My issue is that, unlike a puzzle box, you aren't allowed any real time to learn and make mistakes whilst playing a character action game. If you put in on easy enemies go down too quickly, if you put it on hard you go down too quickly to learn; without a controlled space where I can experience gameplay without the worries of surviving and progressing I find it really hard to actually get all these concepts into my head. It's a concept that I feel veterans to the series/genre take for granted because they've been playing the games for so lon

My dude, how are literal video demonstrations and a literal option to head to a training room to use a new move not enough for you?

My dude, they're not enough because they aren't representative of actual gameplay. That was literally in my first post on the matter.

What feedback are you looking for? There are health bars. You can literally see their health whittle away as you combo them. The starting enemies are punching bags intended for you to learn the controls. The scythe guys don't flinch to every hit you do but if you launch them, they're defenseless, so hey let me launch them. After hitting the boss enough times, he goes down for the count, allowing you to just beat his ass however you want till he gets up letting you know "alright time to back up now and be less aggressive."

Ok I really don't get your last few thoughts here.

Firstly, every enemy has a health bar. Like, every one. Bosses get big screen filling ones whilst normal guys get one whenever you lock on.

Second, how is the ranking system an example of not giving you feedback. It's the most detailed feedback I can think of in maybe any game, it's a running scoreboard of how you're doing.

I stand corrected on the health bar point; I didn't notice it in my first few times through the demo because I simply thought it was just a part of the lock-on graphic.

You can see enemy health bars by locking on, which you should be doing virtually ALL the time in a DMC game. Souls games have a different focus than these stylish action games. In Souls games, the primary objective is to survive.

As far as the feedback for your experiments go... that's really a matter of personal satisfaction and growth. Yeah the style ranking system exists to give you feedback but it's not fully accurate. The best thing I would recommend is paying attention to what spikes the style rank up. Hitting multiple enemies, hitting them in the air, changing up attacks, keeping hits going with no down time, not getting hit yourself etc. Then when you reach those high S ranks, try to maintain them as long as you can. Your game play will automatically adjust to accommodate it. Your style rank is going down because you are repeating attacks, so you start mixing it up. You get hit too often resulting in style bar dropping instantly, you try to get hit less by using the various defensive options. There is too much down time in between your attacks, so you use better mobility attacks to move between enemies or use stuff like Wire Snatch to close the distance etc.

You don't go at these games by trying to do everything at once. You learn a few moves, learn to do them well and in clutch situations then you add one at a time on top of it. The combat in these games is like playing in the sandbox, you get a new tool and that allows you to create something more with your existing tools that you couldn't before. But if you can't use your basic tools well enough then adding more tools is just going to create difficulties. This is a gradual process and the developers expect that you do this over the course of MULTIPLE playthroughs hence why the game has 4 difficulties.

That's a good explanation, thank you. People are acting like my posts are an attack on the very fundamentals of DMC itself, but honestly I'm just frustrated at the constant condescension because I honestly don't feel that the "play through it a bunch" style is a great learning method for someone such as myself. As I said above the game just doesn't really offer an alternative between "so easy that I don't need to learn" or "so hard that I'm focused more on surviving than learning. That's OK in a game like Dark Souls where things are very much methodical and you aren't constantly being hounded by enemy attacks, but in a game like DMC where you're facing against groups and bosses almost exclusively I simply feel that another method of learning is needed.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,868
First of all it's kinda patronising to think that that's my issue with the game. Yes, I know that the "launch" move launches enemies; why do I need to launch enemies, what should I do once I've launched them, how do they benefit my gameplay? Secondly you ignored that I specifically referred to systems such as:
"The exceed system"
"Ex-Act"
"Enemy Step"
"Breakage button as part of a combo"
Etc. Does the game teach you those sorts of things in a way that a 'casual' like me can actually understand?
Breh i'm not trying to be rude, but come on.... You launch enemies because you are safer in the air then on the ground against melee opponents, do you really need that explained to you.

And yea the game explains what those tools do. "exceed and ex-act are powered up moves", "Hey you can jump off enemies".

My issue isn't that I have to experiment, it's that the game doesn't give you enough feedback to show what the results of my experimentation are. I had the same issue with Bayonetta 1+2, I had the same issue in MGR: Revengeance and I had the same issue in the Demo. I didn't have the same issue in games such as Dark Souls and Bloodborne despite those being equally hard and full of relatively complicated systems (albeit more systems-driven than mechanics-driven.). Stuff like the lack of healthbars, the unrelenting enemy attacks and the ranking system don't help at all.
Mateeee what do you want the game to do. You got eyes, you can see the feedback. You use launcher, enemy gets launched. You use exceed, enemy takes more damage. You enemy step, AND GUESsss whattttt ya jumped off the enemy.

And
  • Every enemy has health bar shown on the lock on
  • Ranking system what nani hUH, EYYYyyy? All the style bar does is reward you for mixing it up
  • unrelenting enemy attacks - see gif below from the old thread. The enemies in the demo are literally punching bags, like they are at the start of every dmc. You can literally just spam a single button to kill them, because they are so slow. DMC is probably is on the easier side even on DMD, because its focused on style rather than difficulty.
But yeah please explain what feedback you want the game to give you?
 
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lowhighkang_LHK
Oct 25, 2017
5,879
Las Vegas
I've always said the best way to learn how to play DMC is to watch others.

I remember doing that back when DMC3 came out and youtube is still kind of new. There was this combo video posted called the Elysium or something. Watching made me realize the things I could do that I wasn't previously doing before.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
First of all it's kinda patronising to think that that's my issue with the game. Yes, I know that the "launch" move launches enemies; why do I need to launch enemies, what should I do once I've launched them, how do they benefit my gameplay? Secondly you ignored that I specifically referred to systems such as:
"The exceed system"
"Ex-Act"
"Enemy Step"
"Breakage button as part of a combo"
Etc. Does the game teach you those sorts of things in a way that a 'casual' like me can actually understand?

I've played and finished Devil May Cry 5. The game does not teach you any of this stuff. You need to figure it out really. That said, it's also all extremely high level stuff. You don't need to do any of this to play through and enjoy the game.
 

SunhiLegend

The Legend Continues
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,573
What a great fuckin' fight that was. Royal Guard was a must for me during my first go at that boss.

SunhiLegend

Next time try to also get a parry in there, I did on his last attack which he quickly followed up and after another parry not only did I feel like a SSSparda but also got an achievement lol.
I did manage a couple parry attacks, just didn't look as good as in the camera angle wasn't how I wanted it XD. I just got to this boss though, fight was amazing, will definitely be replaying a few more times, try out different stuff. :D
Given that Sunhi gifs are heavily modified...
DMCV looks better without that.
I'm playing on PC mostly maxed out, in the GIF apart from slow down and zooming in to cut out the HUD, all I've done image wise is increase the brightness/contrast a touch, at full HD and 60fps it's better looking than the small GIF, it's definitely one of the best looking games I've played.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,278
As an add-on to my other posts: I did just pre-order the game.

I am 100% willing to give it a chance, but I'll also sell the game if I'm simply not feeling it. I've explained everything I want to explain about my potential issues, and I also admit that I didn't do so very well at first, so I'm likely not going to reply to any more posts after this one. That's especially true for those that can't help but take a condescending tone with me (seriously, if you think I'm wrong just say so, I don't need to be talked down to like a child).

I've always said the best way to learn how to play DMC is to watch others.

I remember doing that back when DMC3 came out and youtube is still kind of new. There was this combo video posted called the Elysium or something. Watching made me realize the things I could do that I wasn't previously doing before.

Yeah, I'm hoping that some useful Youtube tutorials come out. I know that in Smash I would have never known how to "tech" had I not watched a YT video detailing that because that game's practice mode has the same issues I (probably) will have with DMC5's.

I've played and finished Devil May Cry 5. The game does not teach you any of this stuff. You need to figure it out really. That said, it's also all extremely high level stuff. You don't need to do any of this to play through and enjoy the game.

I've got the demo open and it does at least explain what Exceed and Ex-Act are. I would never know what the hell "Enemy step" is, though (it points to a pet peeve I have of fighting game/character action game terminology being overly complicated for such simple concepts).

As for the rest, that is simultaneously worrying and comforting. It's nice to hear from someone who's finished the game, though, so thanks for that.

Just a question: What difficulty would you recommend for a newcomer like me who doesn't want to just roll through the game? Is 'Human' (this game's easy mode IIRC) too easy or should I go one step up?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,303
My dude, they're not enough because they aren't representative of actual gameplay. That was literally in my first post on the matter.
Again, this is mainly a you issue. You're essentially saying that you're not capable of creating combos on your own and need the game to tell you what to do to succeed, that's not what DMC is about. You can succeed just by button mashing on devil hunter. But for the gameplay to have as much spectacle as the cutscenes like in that beautiful tweet by SunhiLegend, you need to experiment and learn to do things on your own. Not because the game does a poor job of tutorializing, but because it's a player driven combat sandbox.

hat's a good explanation, thank you. People are acting like my posts are an attack on the very fundamentals of DMC itself, but honestly I'm just frustrated at the constant condescension because I honestly don't feel that the "play through it a bunch" style is a great learning method for someone such as myself.
See that gif above. Survival is not an issue in DMC games unless you're very very bad at them cause a ton of the enemy types exist specifically to get styled on compared to something like Bayonetta where the dodge mechanic is such an essential part of the core gameplay loop that enemy aggression is turned up. Note these games are meant to be played through multiple times, as each difficulty unlocks a higher one.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,038
I've played and finished Devil May Cry 5. The game does not teach you any of this stuff. You need to figure it out really. That said, it's also all extremely high level stuff. You don't need to do any of this to play through and enjoy the game.

Huh? Even the demo tells you what Exceed, enemy step, and Ex-Act do. It's part of the ability description when you buy it.