Devil May Cry 5 Second Demo (PS4/X1): Up on Xbox/PSN now

Oct 27, 2017
2,498
It makes sense, though. It's a different kind of difficulty. In Ninja Gaiden, it's hard to stay alive and kill enemies.In DMC, especially post-3, killing things is not really a challenge, doing it stylish is. Getting hit once and losing your style meter hurts as much as a death to a post-game boss in something like KH II FM.

The thing is, that difficulty from games like Ninja Gaiden makes it so just beating the enemies feels satisfying. If you just use Red Queen Combo A over and over while dodging incoming attacks in this demo, you will kill everything, including the boss, but it'll feel awful, you won't enjoy yourself at all. This is a real issue with DMC, in that the "enjoyment floor" (since you can technically beat the game without pulling anything crazy) is way too high.

But I'm not sure how to fix it, considering that every other action games that does it well don't come close to matching the skill ceiling, so maybe we do have to choose.
There is no fix. DMC is built around the style meter. Either love it or hate it. As you've said: Ninja Gaiden, and especially NG 2 is much more satisfying when it comes to enemy feedback. I still don't know where I stand: I like the demo, but I surely didn't love it. The action and style feels like watching an action movie with heavy use of slo-mo after Matrix and 300. Stuff like Stinger or the Aerial launcher or Aerial combos don't feel so "stylish" anymore because they have already been done to death in other games of the genre. And firing a shotgun and pistol in a Hack and Slash game should feel just as good as doing it in a TPS or FPS.
The only way DMC5 can get me onboard Day one is with content: unlockable chars and weapons. Tons of it.
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
2,882
I find it interesting that people struggle with DMC combos compared to other action games. Chaining together a bunch of simple moves is easier for me than remembering a bunch of dial-a-combos.
Could be just that DMC3 was my intro to the genre though.
People don't remember combos, they just alternate mashing light and heavy attacks in a dial a combo game and think they are doing cool combos. DMC doesn't have dial a combosso you actually have to create combos with the tools you are given.
 

s y

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Nov 8, 2017
2,012
surprised that people are unable to beat the demo. I assumed it was on easy mode.
This is their second demo with no block or evade. Please someone tell me the actual game will have an evade button.
there is not nor will there be a singular evade button. You dodge with r1 and x. Or if you have the Gerbera Breaker equipped, just use the breaker button. it dodges and attacks at the same time. or you can just jump.
 

lucebuce

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Oct 25, 2017
7,864
Pakistan
I hope you enjoy the 50,000,000 red orbs you just bought! They don't transfer over to the full game. You can think of it as incentive to keep playing the demo for years to come.
YES! Man, this is awesome.

I already pre-ordered the full game so I'm looking forward to the final release even more. I heard that if I pay enough money, I don't have to actually play the game and skip to the end credits! I wish more games offered that option. It sucks when I have to play the game I bought.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,498
People don't remember combos, they just alternate mashing light and heavy attacks in a dial a combo game and think they are doing cool combos. DMC doesn't have dial a combosso you actually have to create combos with the tools you are given.
I hear this so often, but the systems are absolutely not comparable. The idea behind dial a combo games is basically: how many hits can I get in before I kick off some thing awesome with triangle whilst not getting hit. DMC doesn't have that. In Bayonetta on hardest difficulty you will have a hard time getting a ppppk combo through, so you either have to learn dodge-offset or stick with shorter combos to be safe. Another example (without dial a combo) are the Batman games: you get rewarded with an instant takedown or multiple instant takedowns when you don't get hit by using the combo-meter for special moves. So Bayonetta is basically in the middle ground between DMC and Batman arkham games.
It's not like DMC is this completely "free" system and all the other games are automated or dumbed down. It's different and that's all.
 

GC-

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Oct 25, 2017
3,478
Just a quick note for new players struggling without having a dedicated dodge button: just press jump before you get hit, don’t need to do anything fancy, don’t need to move out of the way just jump.

With the boss apart from one move where you need to run to the side you can stand by its feet and continuously hit it just tapping jump when you need to. Just remember if the enemy has a combo and you don’t have enemy step or the second jump, attacking or shooting whilst in the air will keep you airborne without a simple means to evade the follow up attacks.

DMC gives you lots of options to evade but are for higher skill levels and when you have mastered the basics. The basics aren’t particularly high skill but fly in the face of other games so take a bit of getting use to.
 
Nov 10, 2017
840
I don’t think these games sell themselves well in demo form — DMC is a mechanically deep game that really takes awhile to settle in.

I do think Capcom did a great job with the visuals and the frame rate though, I’m excited to see more, but I didn’t even bother to finish the demo — by the time I got to the boss I still felt like I was learning the controls and it made for a frustrating fight.
 
Feb 12, 2018
1,719
I'm not trying to inflame people but the hangups over locked on evade sort of confuse me cause it's the same system as in 3D Zelda. It's z targeting. BOTW has the same dodge as DMC.

Like I get the stuff over directional inputs in midair and exceeding but relative-to-enemy/camera dodging is one of the basics of movement in a lot of action.

Even in games without a hard lockon requirement like MGR feature a similar enough system to dodge.

I'm wondering if it's cause people want to use a lockon-free dodge to close distance towards enemies (so not dodging basically). For Nero his arm does a lot of that work and he gets such crazy air in this game that you can jump from one side of a combat arena to the other and get there that way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,751
DMC starts to click once you treat it more like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater game, you are chaining various moves and try your best not to repeat them in sucession.
 
Nov 3, 2017
3,593
DMC starts to click once you treat it more like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater game, you are chaining various moves and try your best not to repeat them in sucession.
This is what made it click for me in DMC3

How to Style in DMC in 4 easy steps:

1: Hit the enemy with whatever move
2: Hit the enemy with a different move
3: Don’t get greedy
4: Repeat steps 1-3 until you cycle through all your moves, you get hit, or the enemy dies
 
Oct 29, 2017
941
This is their second demo with no block or evade. Please someone tell me the actual game will have an evade button.
Lock on + any direction + jump button is your basic evade roll

Jumps in DMC have iframes. So essentially double jumps give you two evades right there. The move "Enemy Hike" essentially let's you jump on enemies in the air (which have iframes), and reset your double jump in mid air. When playing DMC, you should probably be in the air as much as you are on the ground. DMC has a very strange and unique combat system

Also, the Gerbera devil breaker let's you air dodge infinitely, by pressing a direction and devil breaker (without locking on)

Also if you press the touchpad button. You can do an air taunt. This can be used to evade as well.
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
2,882
I feel like this game is impenetrable. I played the demo maybe 5 times through and still was unable to beat the boss at the end. I really like the style, the visuals and the type of game - but the combat just doesn’t click with me over and over.

The controls feel really obtuse and antiquated to me, L1+R1 and jump and the direction to dodge?... why? I find myself accidentally hitting L1 at times and then it blows up my devil breaker.

I couldn’t even figure out how to launch enemies in the air as the game refuses to tell you. And that too seems odd, back plus triangle?

It all feels very inelegant to me personally... that upsets me because I see the videos online of people pulling off the craziest combos, moves and I’ve seen the previews of the fantastical worlds and I want to experience it.
First thing is that you need to realize is that lock on isn't optional in DMC, it's mandatory. That means during combat, the R1 button has to be pressed all the time. When you remember to do this, then you realize that the moves in the game are actually easy to execute. Streak? Forward and Triangle. High Roller? Back and Triangle (hold to rise). The moves are all a combination of back and forward. After that you have to realize that dodging or evading is all a function of the Jump button and even a regular jump has invincible frames to get you out of trouble. Since you are always locked on, when you press the jump button you will generally evade the attack as long as you timed it reasonably well. The only time you shouldn't be locked on is if you want to do the Breaker moves, so just let go of R1 briefly and press O then back to holding down Lock on. This is just a basic learning curve thing with the DMC games, nothing compared to something like Souls games where it's a completely different system altogether from other games (and even more obtuse). All the moves are listed in the Skill lists in the options section. Definitely get into an open space and execute all the moves available in the demo to get a feel for them. By DMC standards, this demo and the boss were pretty easy, DMC1 was the original "git gud" 3D action game before all these Souls, Monster Hunter, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta etc. type games. But remember how many times you died against bosses in a Soul game or in a Ninja Gaiden, but you learned and overcame it... this is no different. New system, new controls, new game, new mindset.


I hear this so often, but the systems are absolutely not comparable. The idea behind dial a combo games is basically: how many hits can I get in before I kick off some thing awesome with triangle whilst not getting hit. DMC doesn't have that. In Bayonetta on hardest difficulty you will have a hard time getting a ppppk combo through, so you either have to learn dodge-offset or stick with shorter combos to be safe. Another example (without dial a combo) are the Batman games: you get rewarded with an instant takedown or multiple instant takedowns when you don't get hit by using the combo-meter for special moves. So Bayonetta is basically in the middle ground between DMC and Batman arkham games.
It's not like DMC is this completely "free" system and all the other games are automated or dumbed down. It's different and that's all.
Yes it IS different and they aren't really comparable but that's exactly what people do. Like when you see people come into DMC and say "there are only 2 combos in the game I feel so limited compared to so and so" you already know what mindset they are approaching this from.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
5,758
I shouldn't have played the demo. I was thinking about playing some DMC4:SE until this comes out after I finish RE2, but now I don't wanna touch it. :C
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,751
I generally never buy games day one, but Itsuno deserves my money. DMC is probably my favourite video game series (or close to it) so I just have to do it.
As far as gameplay goes I thnk got more enjoyment from this demo than from whole RDR2.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,613
We've known how dodging works for 6 months. It's a little bit late to be asking for a non-jump dedicated dodge button now.

Stuff like this is why we were collecting feedback and passing it on years ago, bc we knew people would have criticisms like this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,729
This is just a basic learning curve thing with the DMC games, nothing compared to something like Souls games where it's a completely different system altogether from other games (and even more obtuse).
I agree fully with the rest of your post (and this is completely tangential) but there is one major difference in this comparison; the Souls games are fun and satisfying while you are learning the system throughout the entire process. DMC games are honestly just frustrating when you have no idea what you're doing unless you find mashing your way through satisfying.

Anyway I love the demo. The enemies are a bit too squishy (I guess EX attacks just do huge damage in general in DMC5?) and I wish there was a higher difficulty in the demo and/or just an infinitely replayable small arena without loading times and cutscenes. I also thought getting S Rank was a bit too easy, but that's probably because this mission is just a small snippet. Definitely hyped for the full release!
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
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I agree fully with the rest of your post (and this is completely tangential) but there is one major difference in this comparison; the Souls games are fun and satisfying while you are learning the system throughout the entire process. DMC games are honestly just frustrating when you have no idea what you're doing unless you find mashing your way through satisfying.
I disagree and there are others who would agree with me here. When I first got into the Souls game, I thought they were clunky, slow, janky and just straight up mediocre games with bad, antiquated control (sound familiar right?). There were also extremely obtuse, felt like I had to consult a wiki just to actually learn the mechanics because for SURE the game didn't actually teach you anything. The combat felt very repetitive, I have like 2-3 moves and all I did was strafe around, wait for them to dodge then spam R1. Blocking felt terrible as well, just didn't seem worth it. I didn't know that putting on more defenses through armor was a liability because it made you slower. I didn't know that putting points into resistances was bad etc. I could go on and on, my first 4-5 hours in these games was absolutely miserable but I kept mustering on mostly because I am the type of person who actually likes some obtuseness and difficulty in games, even though at the time I felt a lot of it was not earnest difficulty (gotcha moments, terrible hit boxes, enemies stagger comboing you, long checkpoints, loss of %HP if you die etc.). It took me a lot of experimentation and time to learn the mechanics, the various weapons, parrying and some actually good fights to really get into the Souls game. Now I have platinumed every Souls game and got into other games similar like Nioh which I actually enjoyed more than Souls games on a combat level.

I had the same experience with Monster Hunter games on PSP too, I tried to get into them so many times and sank dozens of hours into them. Honestly it wasn't until Monster Hunter World that I actually really enjoyed the series. And I am the type of person who plays just about every action game out there. Where as games like DMC, NG and Bayonetta clicked instantly with me. Well DMC took a couple of hours but I was at least having fun in the first few hours too. Mostly because it was 60 frames per second, everything felt fluid, art design was solid, controls were precise and even doing the basic combo string + Stinger felt decent. IMO the worst thing in the DMC series was the camera which was fixed in many situations which resulted in you getting hit from off screen and made the lock on harder to wield but they fixed that in DMC5 so now I am having an absolute blast. I know my experience isn't normal but all I am saying is that, I have been where others have been when it comes to these games and others. There is a learning curve you just have to get over. Luckily for DMC5 from what I have seen, the game actually eases you into the mechanics better in the full game than in the demo. There is a prologue mission where you are taught the absolute basics, then mission 1 which teaches you more stuff and then mission 2 which is the demo which teaches you the remainder.
 
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Nov 14, 2018
668
Costa Rica
DMC starts to click once you treat it more like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater game, you are chaining various moves and try your best not to repeat them in sucession.
Thanks this is a great analogy for newcomers to understand the mindset.
Did not like It, in my opinion, NG series is the best hack n slash
The genre has evolved alot through the years and NG is kinda dated in some aspects still great tho.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,121
I found it kind of boring until my second run through when I realized that the arms had moves when you weren't locked on, kind of an awkward system but made it way more fun.

Had to rebind triangle to square asap tho.

Ranking in combat seems a lot easier than I remember.
 
Nov 4, 2017
1,174
Lock on + any direction + jump button is your basic evade roll

Jumps in DMC have iframes. So essentially double jumps give you two evades right there. The move "Enemy Hike" essentially let's you jump on enemies in the air (which have iframes), and reset your double jump in mid air. When playing DMC, you should probably be in the air as much as you are on the ground. DMC has a very strange and unique combat system

Also, the Gerbera devil breaker let's you air dodge infinitely, by pressing a direction and devil breaker (without locking on)

Also if you press the touchpad button. You can do an air taunt. This can be used to evade as well.

Thanks, this makes a bit more sense. Seeing some of the videos people are posting, WOW I want to at least have a basic understanding of the combat like that.
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
2,882
You know what, I have spend most of the posts in this thread helping others, sharing info and generally discussing mechanics of DMC and the demo... but I haven't shared my thoughts here yet on the demo or rather DMC5.

I think the demo is quite excellent in terms of the core game play of DMC5 but it misses the mark on a few elements as a DEMO.

POSITIVES:

*Looks great, feels great (mostly feels great, talk about that later)

*Punchline is the best thing introduced to the DMC series since Nevan, the Electrical Guitar. There is so much you can do with it, so much depth and variety. It
greatly enhances the replayability of the demo.

*I like Gerbera a lot too, access to easy mobility and moves. Very powerful, feels satisfying to use.

*I honestly like Overture too as a powerful to use moves for new players even though it's basic. But I think the main issue with it as far as the demo goes is that, where as Punchline/Gerbera style on enemies, Overture just kills them. So there isn't a lot you can do with it against low HP enemies.

*I like the changes they have made to the dodge system, doing the step while attacking feels good and looks good especially when you chain it. This is not something you can really appreciate unless you have played the DMC games a lot. I also like how the character moves laterally after an Air Hike it feels more like an aerial dodge now if used for that purpose.

*They made stuff like Exceed and enemy step easier to execute along with the cancel window on Shuffle. Makes it easier to get into these higher level mechanics which IMO is good. Thank god they actually put enemy step into this version of the demo so the pros can go to work.

*Camera is way better than any DMC game BUT it requires fiddling in the options to get a good balance that works for you. I recommend pulling the camera back a bit and increase the sensitivity.

*Air taunting is excellent, it's like a dodge button in the air. I honestly recommend everyone to map Taunt to R2 if they can and use it in the air as a "dodge" button.

*I mostly like the changes to Charged Shots as you aren't required to be always holding it while in combat. However, I wish there were more types of charge shots in the game. Maybe there in the main game but right now its all we got. But still there are quite a lot of uses to the charged shots that may not seem apparently (used to instantly blow up Overture bomb, keep enemies in stun lock to prevent knock downs/knock backs etc., keep enemies afloat for new combo opportunities).

*Goliath fight is great and a good starter boss in terms of mechanics and spectacle. Very obvious cues on attacks, has enough attacks that you need to learn the fight. You can parry some of this stuff, I like all the environment destruction going on and stage transitions. Feels very organic and natural in terms of transition... no cutscene interruptions between phases. People will say it's too easy and it is easy for most but I think as a starter boss it's just right. New players will have to learn and get better against him where as old players can style on him to get their muscle memory back. And there is lots of replay value here as I want to try out different Breakers against him.

*Putting in the upgrade menu in the demo was a great idea because it enforces the inherit game play loop of DMC games. Kill enemies, get red orbs, spend red orbs to buy moves, try out moves, expand your repertoire and kit, do better on similar areas, get red orbs, buy more skills repeat. It's a build up of mechanics as opposed to just having everything altogether. IMO they should have even locked away basic Exceed to the shop so that when new players buy it for a high price, they actually pay attention to what they are buying similar to Enemy Step. This would be annoying for returning players who want to start jump cancelling and Exceed right off the bat but I think for new players it's better if they learn the fundamentals first before learning the Exceed system. Small gripe here and it's completely my personal take.

*I feel the balance and the way style ranking is structured is very well done in DMC5. No more do you have to find red orbs or any of that other stuff. You also can't over perform in one area and underperform in other areas to get S rank, you have to perform well in all mandatory combat areas as the final style ranking is based on an average than the cumulative sum of encounters. And you are rewarded for doing advanced mechanics but that also is not mandatory as you can get S rank without them (these give you extra red orbs, listed under Extra Bonus if you press [] in the menu). It feels difficult to maintain SSS rank as it should be. Moves give style gain on a per move basis and it's not "more damage = more style gain" which means you need to really do your research and experiment (like doing Calibur against mid air is very rewarding so doing that into jump cancel Calibur is like at least a letter grade upgrade). So in DMC5, if someone gets 18K style points in then demo then you know that they actually know what they are doing which was not the case in the past as people could "farm" style points using some easy methods.


NEGATIVES:

*Depending on your set up, console and TV/monitor, this game really amplifies input lag. What I mean is that there definitely seems to be some inherent input lag in the game on consoles that makes it feel different from DMC4 and if you are playing on like Xbox S on a TV without game mode on, it does not feel good at all because there is additional input lag. I have played the demo on multiple set ups/consoles and each time I felt off based off of how I normally play because it felt different on each. My guess is something similar is happening here to DMC4SE where they added more post processing effects that is adding to the input lag. I recommend people to get this on PC to not be concerned about framerate and to tone down some of the effects to get the least amount of input lag possible. Some of the more pro DMC players can fill me on this and maybe I am not crazy.

*The customization menu feels sluggish and a bit clunky to be honest especially when you are doing the Breaker load out. I blame it on having a fully rendered Nico and the Van in the background. This also makes loading kinda longer than it should be especially in the demo which isn't that long to begin with.

*No checkpoints in the demo is really bull shit. I know this was the same demo they used for show floors where they had to boot off people quickly after playing but come on now Capcom. And I know this is an "easy" demo by DMC standards but there are new players who can die on the boss and they have to restart the demo. This is NOT how the actual game works, you can respawn on the spot by giving up red orbs or gold orbs or you can respawn before the boss at the checkpoint, the days of starting missions over again in a DMC game are over. And no I didn't die in the demo if you are asking.

* I think the enemy encounters are entirely too easy even for a DMC game especially those Empusa enemies. IMO the baseline fodder enemies should have been the Hell Caina and everything should be harder after that. The Empusa enemies die fast, are really passive and have poor range and damage on attacks. I would be surprised if anyone even got close to dying against them. I think the boss is on the easy side as well but what makes him a bit challenging for new players is that he has a ton of HP so the fight goes on long enough where Goliath sneaks enough hits in on to the player where they can be in danger of dying. I am curious to see how this works on higher difficulties where he has even more HP and does way more damage but we are going to have 8 Breaker load outs in the full game.

*The Devil Breaker system is still lame IMO and is really the antithesis of what a DMC game is about. I know they want to differentiate Nero from Dante and I know Itsuno wants to instill the FEEL of "oh shit" into the player but all I felt was inconvenienced rather than planning out my play in advance. There is some planning involved before the boss though when you do a load out but I feel like the game would open up so much more if we were given a better system. My hope and guess is that Super Nero costume bypasses many of these restrictions as does the Void mode so pro players can more freely style on enemies.
 
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Oct 29, 2017
1,720
Think I'm going to go with the PS4 pro version. I actually did a first time series run through on the 1X but I hate the fact that anytime you try to take a screenshot during cutscenes it skips the scene. On the ps4 you can just hit the share button and it doesn't do that.

Kind of wonder if photo mode will alleviate that in the retail release or if it's been changed.

Also, early dibs on saying that NIco's shop music is amazing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
624
Played the demo... It really feels good to control, even more when compared with the choppy performance of Kingdom Hearts that I'm playing at the moment on my base ps4.

Despite the good combat it seems that my biggest gripes with Devil May Cry series remain. The constant arenas for combat, more linear and straight forward level design.... Will wait for a steam sale in the future. My march game will be Sekiro.