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snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,336
Sometimes the feeling of delay in combat is very noticeable. Other times the hits come out quick and hard. Feels like it depends on what animation follows another, if it can quickly flow together but I'm not sure. It does feel to me tho like the combat feeling "laggy" is a cost of the decision to have everything blend neatly and not just input lag.
 

ezekial45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,742


tenor.gif
 

Rubblatus

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,124
Well, they did make a point of how they were carefully balancing the animation this time to make sure they retain some realism without losing the frenetic flow. Some of this laggy feeling some are experiencing could unfortunately be a side effect of that pursuit, although the game could actually be equally responsive while looking less 'snappy'.

I should do some detailed animation analysis when the full game releases.
I think a lot of that laggy feeling some people describe isn't a side effect of the new shift towards better animation blending, but the massive input buffers in combos after ten years of Turbo DMC4's... nothing that really exacerbates any sloppy input (And also lets you get away with freaking murder with reverse inputs).

Edit: Actually I'm gonna walk this one back. There's a lot of weird cancel windows to do things, and the input buffers don't help, but I've also had Nero postpone attacks that'd be interrupted mid-animation (I.E. shooting before landing from a jump) until he hits the ground and recovers. You can still cancel the landing animation if you time the shot when he touches down, but by default the game'll just do it when it's convenient.
 
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Nephilim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,274
Can't get enough of this demo. This is the real shit.
Ok i spoiled myself a bit just to see some enemy design and some bosses and they look so good! Hopefully the variety is on point too.
As i said i played Bayonetta 1 and 2 and consider them some of the best action titles, but this is even better. No dedicated dodge button (there are several dodging commands such as Gerbera, which looks and feels amazing) is actually a positive in my book. The combo possibilities are insane, slashing and shooting demons feels so great.
Only downer is the release date, which comes at a bad time for me personally and those microtransactions for red orbs are pretty stupid.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,828
Resident Evil 2's PC port has had issues for some people....

But generally the consensus is that it's okay for most people?

I got RE2 on PS4 Pro so I wouldn't know either way. Also have DMC5 pre-ordered on PS4 Pro as well.

I do remember reading that RE2 had issues on Direct X 12?


I have a strong PC.

Got re2 on pc.

I am absolutely not buying dmc5 on pc lol.

I dont want random drops and micro stutters happening with no solution in a game like that.

Plus it looks great on ps4 pro so fine by me. The load times will suck but so be it. I'll buy it on steam eventually on a sale if i hear it runs perfect.

I'd be too stressed out on PC monitoring shit.
----


Question :

How do you make goliath fall ? Just repeated attacks ?
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,866
No but I saw a user here kill him on the roof. He keeps making him fall.
The rocket punch super move slams him into the ground. He has recovery animation after this where he waves his fists around his face, so you can charge the punch up again whilst hes doing it. ^________^

Making breakers consumables sure does balance the game.

I have a strong PC.

I dont want random drops and micro stutters happening with no solution in a game like that.

Plus it looks great on ps4 pro so fine by me. The load times will suck but so be it. I'll buy it on steam eventually on a sale if i hear it runs perfect.

I'd be too stressed out on PC monitoring shit.
Also 100% this, i will get PC version after ive finished DMD. PC gaming is just too stressful for games i wanna be immersed in
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,828
Hah I didnt think of trying that in the air.

Thank you!

Also rising the arm is a lot of fun.

Hope Dante gets free bike riding.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,483
I hate the dodge system on this its really flawed in my opinion. It requires 3 button presses which is ridiculous for something that is a reflex action, and its direction dependant and requires lock on and what with the camera you can never be sure of getting the right direction to dodge in.
 
Nov 7, 2017
2,978
I hate the dodge system on this its really flawed in my opinion. It requires 3 button presses which is ridiculous for something that is a reflex action, and its direction dependant and requires lock on and what with the camera you can never be sure of getting the right direction to dodge in.

Especially in the demo, why are you standing in front of an enemy doing nothing so long that it requires you to dodge? The enemies in the demo take like 30 seconds to swing at you
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
I hate the dodge system on this its really flawed in my opinion. It requires 3 button presses which is ridiculous for something that is a reflex action, and its direction dependant and requires lock on and what with the camera you can never be sure of getting the right direction to dodge in.
It takes getting used to due to it depending on your positioning in relation to the enemy but it definitely has a learning curve because almost no games do it like this game but I wouldn't call it a flaw because jumping is very reliable while also being another option due to how high you jump. To me it is just different since in something like Bayo most of the time you are just spamming it lending itself to less deliberateness.
 

discotrigger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
561
The side-roll makes perfect sense when you consider the game's control scheme as a whole. If you're playing the game as it's designed to be played, moving to the side while locking on and pushing the jump button isn't hard at all. You should be locked on and alternating your direction on the analog stick while you are attacking as well, so in context it isn't a bad design (it's arguably a good one if you can get your head out of what less complex games have been teaching you).

To be clear I don't think this control scheme is necessary to get the variety we see in DMC, but there are very few viable alternatives to get that variety. Changing the entire control scheme now when this one works about as well as the equally deep alternatives would be foolhardy, in my opinion. It might make more sense to experiment with that while making a new series, on the other hand.

If this is really annoying you that much and you're unwilling to adjust, just jump. It's easy, it's one button, just go with that until you feel comfortable diving deeper. But don't blame the game for your unwillingness to learn, you would be laughed out of the room for saying something like that about a fighting game, I don't see why DMC should be any different when it's really not that hard.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
4,866
I hate the dodge system on this its really flawed in my opinion. It requires 3 button presses which is ridiculous for something that is a reflex action, and its direction dependant and requires lock on and what with the camera you can never be sure of getting the right direction to dodge in.
  • Lol directional attacks are based on Neros orientation not the camera.
  • 3 button presses, outrageous? Most games where dodging is required need 2 button presses.
  • Why are you on the floor lol
  • Jump has iframes
  • 3213213 million moves give you mobility
  • Dodge is for styling and Nero even gets rewarded for perfect dodges
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,336
If you're squaring up to a single enemy and want to reposition while negating damage then that's the time for three button dodge roll. It's also the basic of the basics as DMC inputs go, it's only going to get more complicated later.

That Caveliere Angelo gif shows some good three button dodging situations.

For more omnidirectional dodge the jump is good to escape and has quick enough recovery for counter attacks.

There's no single way to move fast and negate damage in DMC, there's loads of different options.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,866
I tried to get into this "first time actiongame" mindset, where all you do is mash attack, but even then you dont need to dodge in the demo ^___________________^

like what are ya'll trying to dodge xD
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,891
Pakistan
I bet a dodge move that isn't tied behind an arbitrary input scheme, will be made available via MICROTRANSACTIONS.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,579
I've changed my mind about the dodge-button after digging deeper into DMC4SE in preparation for DMCV.
Here's my experience and a theory that goes with it. Maybe this will help some of you who were in the same "no dodge button is an issue" camp:
I've played DMC3 and DMC4 in my 20s that's a long ass time ago and to be brutally honest I've beaten both games only on normal difficulty.
Here's the thing - since then, with DMC being on hiatus, two franchises really taught me to approach this type of game more seriously: Bayonetta and Dark Souls.
I now understand a little better why people itt got so annoyed with the Bayonetta comparisson: Bayonetta and DMC are completely different games, with different focus regarding their combat mechanics. There is no better or worse.
But the real deal is actually the Souls Series in terms of changing the mindset of a huge playerbase. Souls teaches you how to play the hard way, since there's only one difficulty. In the DMC series you'll have to play those games on the harder difficulties to really get the best learning experience. Most casual players won't do that. So the argument Souls players always bring up against easy-mode is exactly what spoils casual players playing DMC.
Dark Souls and Bayonetta players will bring their experience from those games to DMC starting on easy or normal and of course they won't get it if they don't go the extra mile.
A good comparisson would be: when BB was announced and we got the first infos on the gameplay and some people thought it would be a lesser game, because the defensive option (shield) was missing. That's exactly the Bayonetta vs. DMC situation.
 
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Rex Prime

Member
Jul 29, 2018
32
The dodge on the normal Gerbera is better since it reflects projectiles, this one doesn't, it prolly doesn't even have i-frames too
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,614
I've changed my mind about the dodge-button after digging deeper into DMC4SE in preparation for DMCV.
Here's my experience and a theory that goes with it. Maybe this will help some of you who were in the same "no dodge button is an issue" camp:
I've played DMC3 and DMC4 in my 20s that's a long ass time ago and to be brutally honest I've beaten both games only on normal difficulty.
Here's the thing - since then, with DMC being on hiatus, two franchises really taught me to approach this type of game more seriously: Bayonetta and Dark Souls.
I now understand a little better why people itt got so annoyed with the Bayonetta comparisson: Bayonetta and DMC are completely different games, with different focus regarding their combat mechanics. There is no better or worse.
But the real deal is actually the Souls Series in terms of changing the mindset of a huge playerbase. Souls teaches you how to play the hard way, since there's only one difficulty. In the DMC series you'll have to play those games on the harder difficulties to really get the best learning experience. Most casual players won't do that. So the argument Souls players always bring up against easy-mode is exactly what spoils casual players playing DMC.
Dark Souls and Bayonetta players will bring their experience from those games to DMC starting on easy or normal and of course they won't get it if they don't go the extra mile.
A good comparisson would be: when BB was announced and we got the first infos on the gameplay and some people thought it would be a lesser game, because the defensive option (shield) was missing. That's exactly the Bayonetta vs. DMC situation.
Now you are learning.
 

Rubblatus

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,124
The dodge on the normal Gerbera is better since it reflects projectiles, this one doesn't, it prolly doesn't even have i-frames too
The ascent/descent property probably works exactly like it does with normal Gerbera dashes. If it does, that means this thing can double as an AOE launcher/trick down too.
 

DarKaoZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
711
I tried to get into this "first time actiongame" mindset, where all you do is mash attack, but even then you dont need to dodge in the demo ^___________________^

like what are ya'll trying to dodge xD

I think what people are having more problem Dodging is Goliath (The boss).

Also no need to make fun of people who aren't used to the DMC system, its different. Ones they figure it out, or get used to it, they will just see it as natural.

BTW, I had a small Eureka moment, Bayonetta = Ninja Gaiden (aggressive AI/dial combos) + DMC ( Style/cancels/Over The top)
But that doesn't mean Bayonetta its as good as Ninja Gaiden or DMC by themselves. Well that is what I thought of, not a fact or rule, just an opinionated observation.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,600
I've changed my mind about the dodge-button after digging deeper into DMC4SE in preparation for DMCV.
Here's my experience and a theory that goes with it. Maybe this will help some of you who were in the same "no dodge button is an issue" camp:
I've played DMC3 and DMC4 in my 20s that's a long ass time ago and to be brutally honest I've beaten both games only on normal difficulty.
Here's the thing - since then, with DMC being on hiatus, two franchises really taught me to approach this type of game more seriously: Bayonetta and Dark Souls.
I now understand a little better why people itt got so annoyed with the Bayonetta comparisson: Bayonetta and DMC are completely different games, with different focus regarding their combat mechanics. There is no better or worse.
But the real deal is actually the Souls Series in terms of changing the mindset of a huge playerbase. Souls teaches you how to play the hard way, since there's only one difficulty. In the DMC series you'll have to play those games on the harder difficulties to really get the best learning experience. Most casual players won't do that. So the argument Souls players always bring up against easy-mode is exactly what spoils casual players playing DMC.
Dark Souls and Bayonetta players will bring their experience from those games to DMC starting on easy or normal and of course they won't get it if they don't go the extra mile.
A good comparisson would be: when BB was announced and we got the first infos on the gameplay and some people thought it would be a lesser game, because the defensive option (shield) was missing. That's exactly the Bayonetta vs. DMC situation.

One of usssssss

Glad to see you on the light side
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,025
I bet a dodge move that isn't tied behind an arbitrary input scheme, will be made available via MICROTRANSACTIONS.

Speaking of MTX, I can't wait till people buy shit and realize it doesn't make the game much easier. Though I guess if you're able to buy a constant supply of Vital Stars, either directly or with orbs, it can be easier. Your grade will just be trash.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
I've changed my mind about the dodge-button after digging deeper into DMC4SE in preparation for DMCV.
Here's my experience and a theory that goes with it. Maybe this will help some of you who were in the same "no dodge button is an issue" camp:
I've played DMC3 and DMC4 in my 20s that's a long ass time ago and to be brutally honest I've beaten both games only on normal difficulty.
Here's the thing - since then, with DMC being on hiatus, two franchises really taught me to approach this type of game more seriously: Bayonetta and Dark Souls.
I now understand a little better why people itt got so annoyed with the Bayonetta comparisson: Bayonetta and DMC are completely different games, with different focus regarding their combat mechanics. There is no better or worse.
But the real deal is actually the Souls Series in terms of changing the mindset of a huge playerbase. Souls teaches you how to play the hard way, since there's only one difficulty. In the DMC series you'll have to play those games on the harder difficulties to really get the best learning experience. Most casual players won't do that. So the argument Souls players always bring up against easy-mode is exactly what spoils casual players playing DMC.
Dark Souls and Bayonetta players will bring their experience from those games to DMC starting on easy or normal and of course they won't get it if they don't go the extra mile.
A good comparisson would be: when BB was announced and we got the first infos on the gameplay and some people thought it would be a lesser game, because the defensive option (shield) was missing. That's exactly the Bayonetta vs. DMC situation.
You have seen the light friend. But seriously people who want a challenge and to dive deep in the game I recommend starting on Son of sparda just to get the full picture if you play games like Darksouls just so you are required to learn the combat system to proceed.
 
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Monster Zero

Member
Nov 5, 2017
5,612
Southern California
  • Lol directional attacks are based on Neros orientation not the camera.
  • 3 button presses, outrageous? Most games where dodging is required need 2 button presses.
  • Why are you on the floor lol
  • Jump has iframes
  • 3213213 million moves give you mobility
  • Dodge is for styling and Nero even gets rewarded for perfect dodges

Dodging takes skill in DMC. I always respected that. Too many games with a dodge button you can spam hopping around like a jack rabbit.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,665
Miami
Well for me it's crap. And I'm far from the being the only one going by this forum's performance thread.

Me too and many others. RE engine and PC don't mix well. I've had stuttering that has NOTHING to do with performance (lowering the graphics some times makes it worse) in RE7 and RE2. In those games I can get by but not DMCV. I fear the worst.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,866
I think what people are having more problem Dodging is Goliath (The boss).

Also no need to make fun of people who aren't used to the DMC system, its different. Ones they figure it out, or get used to it, they will just see it as natural.
Na i dont mean to make fun lol, i've posted before about how unnatural playing dmc is.

Honestly enemy stepping is probably the main reason new players are frustrated.
If you dont know that stepping off an enemy makes double jump/calibur available again, you will be falling to the ground alot and confused how to dodge.

Also in general using your attacks like split/calibur to repostion is probably alien to most newcomers. Not many games give you this much movement on attacks.
^ My point is though dodging is so unnecessary in the demo, since everything is so slow and staggers, so even if you aren't used to staying in the air, you should be fine without it. I think Goliath makes it really obvious that positioning/jumping is much more important than dodging, most his ground slams have a no damage aoe stun area, so you really need to either just move away or jump. He seems like a real clever first boss to teach the player.

I wonder how most fans would feel if this game had DmC like pop up tutorial videos? e.g "Stop the Goliaths charge using overture". Like DmC has one showing donte charge up his fists to counter a demons charge attack. Anything that encourages new players to be bad ass seems like a win to me. But id like an option to turn them off, since I like to figure that stuff out myself.
 

Onesan

Member
Feb 13, 2019
10
Here's my input on the dodge input:

Stop thinking of it as three button presses, think of it as one action. This takes up a lot of mental space and makes the move itself less effective in a way because you're assuming its three inputs and not actually just one that press all at once. The game is focused around lock on, even though breakers require you to be locked off lol, and then its just 'which direction do you want to roll?' It's supposed to be limited and not the main way to dodge which is why rolling is only to the side while any other form of dodge is more in depth.

Consider Inertia Rainstorm in DMC4. It's actually a really easy move to do for how effective it is, but if you constantly consider it as:
  1. Switch to Trickster if not already there
  2. Press Circle to Sky Star
  3. Switch to Gunslinger
  4. Enemy Step with X
  5. Press Circle to perform Rainstorm
then it's just not gonna feel as fluid or as quick as it actually is.


Also, wow DMC5 is good and fun.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,614
You are always going to be locked on in the game. If you aren't locked on then you aren't really properly playing DMC anyway. That means that dodging becomes a matter of pressing Jump and a direction. In any other video game, you have to press a button and a direction to dodge anyway. You are still restricted to left or right, however even if you do a forward jump or a back jump with the proper timing, then you would still be out of harms way.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,731
Me too and many others. RE engine and PC don't mix well. I've had stuttering that has NOTHING to do with performance (lowering the graphics some times makes it worse) in RE7 and RE2. In those games I can get by but not DMCV. I fear the worst.
They mix incredibly well. The issue is that you guys are outlier and it's most likely something to do with what your system or shitty stutter introduced by W10.
 

PARAdoja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
574
I'm trying to get used to a new input setup for the controller and can't seem to wrap my head about it (too many years playing dmc non-seriously with the default buttons)
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,579
Hm thinking about Cavaliere, does anyone else think that Isuno is basically revenge trolling Kamiya with that one? I mean Jeanne was obviously female Dante from a design stand-point who used her motor-cycle in combat almost the same way Dante does in DMCV. Am I overthinking it? But knowing Kamiya we can say for sure that this is not too far-fetched in hindsight, especially how much Bayonetta1 "borrowed" from DMC 4(hell, even the final boss is very similar). I assume tho, that if true, it's all done with a funny vibe to it. Has anyone read up on this?
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,891
Pakistan
Speaking of MTX, I can't wait till people buy shit and realize it doesn't make the game much easier. Though I guess if you're able to buy a constant supply of Vital Stars, either directly or with orbs, it can be easier. Your grade will just be trash.
That's not what I was told.

I was informed that you can buy skills with red orbs that you can get with real money, and that in turn will make the game a complete pushover because there's nothing left to get. I know that's what I'm going to be doing!
 

Cerulean_skylark

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,408
BTW, I had a small Eureka moment, Bayonetta = Ninja Gaiden (aggressive AI/dial combos) + DMC ( Style/cancels/Over The top)
But that doesn't mean Bayonetta its as good as Ninja Gaiden or DMC by themselves. Well that is what I thought of, not a fact or rule, just an opinionated observation.

Very much no. You cannot cancel your attacks mid-move in Ninja Gaiden like in Bayo. When you're committed in NG, you are stuck. Bayonetta is extremely generous on dodging because it's meant for you to abuse specifically to make your combos better.

NG is not. you position yourself, and abuse your attack's i-frames, and wait for the best openings. because dodging is a tool to get out of a situation, not to keep yourself in it.