Devil May Cry 5 Second Demo (PS4/X1): Up on Xbox/PSN now

[TyrantGuardian]

Yup. Exactly.

Itsuno can keep creating these god like mechancis but if players don't know how to do them they for all intents and purpose don't exist. And it's even made worse when players opt to play without a tutorial. Even basic shit like, break away, or break age, or evasion, or wire snatch isn't expressed to the player.

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Yeah I don't think the demo explains the nuances of holding or releasing lock-on for snatch/breaker moves even? It took me maybe a minute to wrap my head around it but I don't even want to imagine how confusing that is for someone who has never played a game like this before. That's not some advanced mechanic that is rewarding to find out down the road, that's just basic gameplay. There is no reason not to present it in an interesting way to the player.

That said, the full game will more than likely have some environmental wire snatch movement which kind of serves this purpose just like DMC4, but I doubt there will be any clear demonstration of how breaker moves interact with locking on whatsoever. We'll see, I guess.

This also reminds of DMC4 saying that Human difficulty is good for people who are new to DMC. Personally, I think Devil Hunter is the better beginner difficulty and Human is way too easy even for someone just getting started with the game. I find it misleading because someone new to DMC might want to get better at the game but that is hard to do on Human. A better description would be something like "For people who just want to experience the story" or something like that. I hope DMC5 doesn't have this issue.

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Honestly I'd rather have a game that forces you to learn advanced mechanics in order to even survive... as in no difficulty selection - New Game DMD is all you get. Good luck with PPP combos. Then a comparison could be made with the Souls games and people would at least know what they are missing out on to some extent. Mashing your way through a story where enemies die in one combo isn't very fun for most people, even if the cutscenes are great like in DMC3. See also; why most "casual" players fucking hated DMC4 at launch.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

This also reminds of DMC4 saying that Human difficulty is good for people who are new to DMC. Personally, I think Devil Hunter is the better beginner difficulty and Human is way too easy even for someone just getting started with the game. I find it misleading because someone new to DMC might want to get better at the game but that is hard to do on Human. A better description would be something like "For people who just want to experience the story" or something like that. I hope DMC5 doesn't have this issue.

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Yeah, DMC4 listed Devil Hunter difficulty as "a mode dedicated to those who have completed previous DMC games and lived to tell the tale...."

It's like no dude, Devil Hunter is normal mode wtf. Which is like easier than DMC3's easy mode. Chill Capcom.

 

[Dahbomb]

I mean asking for better DMC tutorials is like asking for better fighting game tutorials. Yes ideally that's what should happen but I think sometimes you just gotta let the player learn for themselves. Itsuno is never going to make a tutorial based around player mindset or combat style, so there won't be a situation where he will be actively telling the player "jump and attack, it's better this way!"

The bigger issue is that Itsuno and co think that the game's real tutorial mode is actually the Auto Assist mode. That is, they believe that if players don't really grasp the combat they will instead turn on Auto Assist and see what you can do in the game. To me this is such flawed thinking and probably highlights why the actual tutorial is how it is.

 

[Gilver]

All they need to do to fix this problem is having you go to the void for each character (giving you the option to skip if not new to DMC) and give you an objective that you need to do to a dummy and tell you how to do it while only being able to advance until you do it. So for Nero you would be required to do a break age attack in the air and 1 on ground than do a perfect exceed attack 10 times to a dummy, charge your gun 3 times, taunt in the air, etc.

 

[wondermagenta]

No, it doesn't.

So yesterday, I was actually watching somebody play DMC3 on twitch. And he was complaining about how he couldn't switch targets. I was like, strange -- did this guy not play with the tutorial on. So I just asked him, if there was any reason why he turned it off. He said it's because he played DMC2 right before this.

Imagine that scenario with people trying to learn how to play as V. Again, this is why games today don't give a player a choice. It's important to teach the basics of user operation when it comes to game design. Even Resident Evil 2, found it fundamentally important to tell players (on multiple occassions, mind you) the benefits of mixing herbs.

Basically, you want the hardcore players to make the conscious the decision to turn it off. Not casual players. Do you see the slight, but important difference. So, in RE2's example, once I beat the game once, I started a new game and then I opted to turn off the tutorial in the options menu. It worked perfectly and it's generally considered good game design.

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I'm with Dahbomb. That DMC2 to DMC3 example is hyper-specific and I don't even know why you would assume the two games would control the same in the first place. And if you're consciously going into the options to turn off the tutorial, it should be within your ability to go into the options and look at the controls.

Letting players turn off tutorials even from a fresh file is valuable for when you lose your saves for whatever reason or when you're playing on a different console, etc. It's all-around the better solution in my eyes.

 

[Deleted member 679]

I mean asking for better DMC tutorials is like asking for better fighting game tutorials. Yes ideally that's what should happen but I think sometimes you just gotta let the player learn for themselves. Itsuno is never going to make a tutorial based around player mindset or combat style, so there won't be a situation where he will be actively telling the player "jump and attack, it's better this way!"

The bigger issue is that Itsuno and co think that the game's real tutorial mode is actually the Auto Assist mode. That is, they believe that if players don't really grasp the combat they will instead turn on Auto Assist and see what you can do in the game. To me this is such flawed thinking and probably highlights why the actual tutorial is how it is.

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Yeah, when Itsuno talked about the intention behind Auto Assist, I was just really surprised. It makes sense after hearing it, but I would never even imagine it being used this way.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Yeah I don't think the demo explains the nuances of holding or releasing lock-on for snatch/breaker moves even? It took me maybe a minute to wrap my head around it but I don't even want to imagine how confusing that is for someone who has never played a game like this before. That's not some advanced mechanic that is rewarding to find out down the road, that's just basic gameplay. There is no reason not to present it in an interesting way to the player.

That said, the full game will more than likely have some environmental wire snatch movement which kind of serves this purpose just like DMC4, but I doubt there will be any clear demonstration of how breaker moves interact with locking on whatsoever. We'll see, I guess.

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YES. This. I saw somebody who kept doing wire-snatch point blank. And I'm, WTF is this guy doing. Is he having a stroke.

Then it occurred to me simply that the concept of R1+O and O by itself is fundamentally different, and people new to the series might not catch on between that subtle difference between the two.

Reason being is because Lock On isn't really Lock On, it should be described more as a move modifier button first and foremost.

What's even worse is that on auto-assist mode, sometimes Nero will do wire-snatch when you press the primary melee button. And sometimes he'll do melee attacks when you press the devil breaker button.....yea....

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I feel like in the world of internet, anyone who doesn't know how to do shit and actually wants to find out would just look it up online.

People say they *shouldn't* have to do it but that's what everyone does anyway.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

I mean asking for better DMC tutorials is like asking for better fighting game tutorials. Yes ideally that's what should happen but I think sometimes you just gotta let the player learn for themselves. Itsuno is never going to make a tutorial based around player mindset or combat style, so there won't be a situation where he will be actively telling the player "jump and attack, it's better this way!"

The bigger issue is that Itsuno and co think that the game's real tutorial mode is actually the Auto Assist mode. That is, they believe that if players don't really grasp the combat they will instead turn on Auto Assist and see what you can do in the game. To me this is such flawed thinking and probably highlights why the actual tutorial is how it is.

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Nah I don't want a separate tutorial mode. I want the game itself to be the tutorial. Just like Super Mario Bros 1-1 or whatever. No text, just gameplay.

Completely agree on your second point, though.

All they need to do to fix this problem is having you go to the void for each character (giving you the option to skip if not new to DMC) and give you an objective that you need to do to a dummy and tell you how to do it while only being able to advance until you do it. So for Nero you would be required to do a break age attack in the air and 1 on ground than do a perfect exceed attack 10 times to a dummy, charge your gun 3 times, taunt in the air, etc.

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This works but is kind of boring. Most players will just slog through it once and not really learn anything. See; every fighting game tutorial I've ever completed. It needs to be fun for people to genuinely engage with it. Heck, Bayonetta had a void mode tutorial at the start, and even that just felt boring. Still, better than nothing.

What's even worse is that on auto-assist mode, sometimes Nero will do wire-snatch when you press the primary melee button. And sometimes he'll do melee attacks when you press the devil breaker button.....yea....

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Oh god... I've never touched the automatic modes so I don't notice that type of madness. On the other hand, a friend that rarely plays video games got through Bayonetta and loved the game on the automatic mode, so there's obviously a place for it - I just don't think it should ever be presented as some sort of tutorial you're meant to grow out of? It's just there for people who have zero interest in mechanical skill but still like the game for the characters etc. They will do one playthrough and move on. I'd wager literally 0% of those people move on to higher difficulties and turn automatic off after finishing the game once.

 

[Deleted member 679]

The loading screen combos in DmC were actually a better version of what Auto Assist is trying to do, IMO. They were pretty boring combos, but at least it's something to get people who are new to the series wanting to at least try to combine these moves.

 

[Gilver]

I mean asking for better DMC tutorials is like asking for better fighting game tutorials. Yes ideally that's what should happen but I think sometimes you just gotta let the player learn for themselves. Itsuno is never going to make a tutorial based around player mindset or combat style, so there won't be a situation where he will be actively telling the player "jump and attack, it's better this way!"

The bigger issue is that Itsuno and co think that the game's real tutorial mode is actually the Auto Assist mode. That is, they believe that if players don't really grasp the combat they will instead turn on Auto Assist and see what you can do in the game. To me this is such flawed thinking and probably highlights why the actual tutorial is how it is.

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But auto-assist is not presented as a tutorial option its presented like a simplified control scheme that will remain on for the rest of the game unless the player realizes they are getting lower stage ranks due to it or they dont understand why the character they are using is going all over the place with 1 button. Plus you need to go into the game options to turn it off.

 

[Dahbomb]

But auto-assist is not presented as a tutorial option its presented like a simplified control scheme that will remain on for the rest of the game unless the player realizes they are getting lower stage ranks due to it or they dont understand why the character they are using is going all over the place with 1 button. Plus you need to go into the game options to turn it off.

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You can turn Auto Assist on and off by holding down the R3 button. I am pretty sure they tell you that in the demo.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

I'm with Dahbomb. That DMC2 to DMC3 example is hyper-specific and I don't even know why you would assume the two games would control the same in the first place. And if you're consciously going into the options to turn off the tutorial, it should be within your ability to go into the options and look at the controls.

Letting players turn off tutorials even from a fresh file is valuable for when you lose your saves for whatever reason or when you're playing on a different console, etc. It's all-around the better solution in my eyes.

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Completely disagree. You want hardcore players to make the conscious decision to turn it off. Not have casuals make the conscious decision to turn it on. Reread that, and understand the slight but crucial difference between the two viewpoints on gamer play habits.

It's exactly what Resident Evil 2 does. Hardcore players can immediately go into the options the very first second the game starts and turn it off. And for everyone else, they have the tutorial which defaults to ON. Which is brief, but expresses important information.

 

[wondermagenta]

Imagine packing your game full of cool features and insane depth and not bothering to tell players about it.

I'll never understand this mentality. Are the devs fooling themselves that most players are inquisitive enough to discover this stuff organically?

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Adding to what Dahbomb said about the fun of self-discovery, the reality is that the majority of people who're gonna be playing a DMC won't actually be interested in mastering it. They'll find what "works," play through the game once (if at all) and never touch it again. If you go out of your way to explain every minute detail, it will likely only confuse and annoy people who don't want to be dealing with this stuff. Explaining the basic interface once and then making every tool intuitively follow the rules of that interface is enough to get players who WANT to master the game to dig a little deeper.

 

[wondermagenta]

Completely disagree. You want hardcore players to make the conscious decision to turn it off. Not have casuals make the conscious decision to turn it on. Reread that, and understand the slight but crucial difference between the two viewpoints on gamer play habits.

It's exactly what Resident Evil 2 does. Hardcore players can immediately go into the options the very first second the game starts and turn it off. And for everyone else, they have the tutorial which defaults to ON. Which is brief, but expresses important information.

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I'm not really sure I follow. Didn't you just cite an example of a casual player going into the options to turn the tutorials OFF? Because the game DOES default to having them on just like RE2.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Adding to what Dahbomb said about the fun of self-discovery, the reality is that the majority of people who're gonna be playing a DMC won't actually be interested in mastering it. They'll find what "works," play through the game once (if at all) and never touch it again. If you go out of your way to explain every minute detail, it will likely only confuse and annoy people who don't want to be dealing with this stuff. Explaining the basic interface once and then making every tool intuitively follow the rules of that interface is enough to get players who WANT to master the game to dig a little deeper.

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Which is why you don't explain it. Instead, you have an obstacle that requires three EX Acts in a row that is recurring throughout the game without just being boring static window dressing. Make it a cool enemy (we already have the honestly shitty red orb crawlers...) that blocks your path every now and then but isn't part of regular combat (nobody wants forced DmC color coding style encounters, right?). Hell, make a RE3 Nemesis type enemy that stalks you when you're out of combat and the only way to not get instantly game overed by them is EX Acting them. Done. No explanation needed. Git gud or get out instead of mashing through the game and being bored.

 

[wondermagenta]

Which is why you don't explain it. Instead, you have an obstacle that requires three EX Acts in a row that is recurring throughout the game without just being boring static window dressing. Make it a cool enemy (we already have the honestly shitty red orb crawlers...) that blocks your path every now and then but isn't part of regular combat (nobody wants forced DmC color coding style encounters, right?). Hell, make a RE3 Nemesis type enemy that stalks you when you're out of combat and the only way to not get instantly game overed by them is EX Acting them. Done. No explanation needed. Git gud or get out instead of mashing through the game and being bored.

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Wouldn't be against that method so I hope that's what they're doing!

 

[Gilver]

You can turn Auto Assist on and off by holding down the R3 button. I am pretty sure they tell you that in the demo.

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O yea I forgot about that. That gives me less hope that people that need it will remember this but regardless I think games like MGRR and Bayo did enough for people to atleast know that these mechanics exist. People played DMC4 without using exceed once and I think that is not giving the franchise justice since its so integral to the uniqueness and enjoyment of these games but I guess if Itsuno thinks its something that will let people who play these games casually enjoy themselves than maybe I just need to enjoy my experience.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

You can turn Auto Assist on and off by holding down the R3 button. I am pretty sure they tell you that in the demo.

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I tells you on some small text prompt on the side. But it only tells you R3 to swtich on/off after like a paragraph of text.

And unfortunately gamers can only read 8 words at a time before they just say fuck it next.

I'm not really sure I follow. Didn't you just cite an example of a casual player going into the options to turn the tutorials OFF? Because the game DOES default to having them on just like RE2.

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So, in most games. The tutorial is mandatory. You are not given an option to turn it off. I imagine this is because developers feel its important to explain control functions to players. And they don't want players to turn the tutorial off. Basic concept of preventing players from making the wrong choice by eliminating the choice to begin with.

Resident Evil 2, also has a mandatory tutorial. It does not ask you if you want it on or off when you start a new game. It is mandatory. However, players can make the conscious decision to turn it off in the options menu once the game begins. DMC5 should have the same tutorial design as RE2.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Wouldn't be against that method so I hope that's what they're doing!

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Oh there is no chance that's what the game has, haha. It'll be text + image prompts like the demo throughout. One click and you missed em - gotta go into the menu and dig out the tutorial section. At least the move shop has try before you buy though, so that's an improvement.

And unfortunately gamers can only read 8 words at a time before they just say fuck it next.

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We keep saying stuff like this in a derogatory manner (in general, I mean) but honestly - why would anyone want to read a full paragraph of text in an action game like DMC?

I have a feeling that some secret mission in DMC5 might be like this. Where for example enemies only take damage when Nero performs EX attacks on them. So basically using the secret missions themselves to teach mechanics to the player.

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The problem with this, obviously, is that secret missions are indeed secret. Casual players who already aren't paying attention are even less likely to find these. Making them super obvious and easy to find isn't a very satisfying solution to that. Bayonetta had a lot of this with Alfheim portals, but almost all casual players I've seen give each Alfheim one or two tries and then give up, learning nothing.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Wouldn't be against that method so I hope that's what they're doing!

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I have a feeling that some secret mission in DMC5 might be like this. Where for example enemies only take damage when Nero performs EX attacks on them. So basically using the secret missions themselves to teach mechanics to the player.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

"I don't need tutorials! I play Dark Souls! Let me figure this shit myself!" - Thomas Dipshit

 

[Okabe]

"I don't need tutorials! I play Dark Souls! Let me figure this shit myself!" - Thomas Dipshit

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Nice to meet you Thomas my name is Okabe

 

[Dahbomb]

Look guys I get it. It's much better to have contextual, game play rooted "tutorials" than just text based explanations of mechanics. I agree, this is how it should be.

Like they can start the game with Nero getting his Red Queen. You are given an area to try out. There is a dummy. Nico says you can break it if you have enough power. Nero hits it but it doesn't break, and he says to himself "I need to Rev things up first" and you get a hint about Exceed mechanic. Then the dummy only breaks when you have hit it with a succession of Exceed attacks, breaking open to give you a Blue orb fragment or something.

In the end though it seems like Capcom was not interested in putting in resources for this objective. They seem to believe that players in their 10 or so hours of playing the game can figure things out. They have playtested the game, journalists have played the game and they seem to think that people seem to have enough fun with the game as is.

That said from what I have seen in the footage from the final game, Prologue, Mission 1 and Mission 2 are set up like tutorial missions. You are being dropped basic information all the way through. I just hope one of those area has an explanation on Exceed and not the garbage DMC4 explanation where it's a text prompt and doesn't say anything about timing attacks.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Look guys I get it. It's much better to have contextual, game play rooted "tutorials" than just text based explanations of mechanics. I agree, this is how it should be.

Like they can start the game with Nero getting his Red Queen. You are given an area to try out. There is a dummy. Nico says you can break it if you have enough power. Nero hits it but it doesn't break, and he says to himself "I need to Rev things up first" and you get a hint about Exceed mechanic. Then the dummy only breaks when you have hit it with a succession of Exceed attacks, breaking open to give you a Blue orb fragment or something.

In the end though it seems like Capcom was not interested in putting in resources for this objective. They seem to believe that players in their 10 or so hours of playing the game can figure things out. They have playtested the game, journalists have played the game and they seem to think that people seem to have enough fun with the game as is.

That said from what I have seen in the footage from the final game, Prologue, Mission 1 and Mission 2 are set up like tutorial missions. You are being dropped basic information all the way through. I just hope one of those area has an explanation on Exceed and not the garbage DMC4 explanation where it's a text prompt and doesn't say anything about timing attacks.

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Also...if your average dude-bro gamer plays DMC5 and selects Tutorial Off cus he think he's a Fortnite expert, he won't have anything explained. Literally, nothing at all.

 

[Gilver]

At the end of the day regardless of how you play this game I find it hard to believe you can not enjoy your time playing it.

 

[s y]

Success! No damage run resulting in 10k stylish points

Discovered a pool of blood you can roll around in, stays on for quite some time:

 

[weebro]

Look guys I get it. It's much better to have contextual, game play rooted "tutorials" than just text based explanations of mechanics. I agree, this is how it should be.

Like they can start the game with Nero getting his Red Queen. You are given an area to try out. There is a dummy. Nico says you can break it if you have enough power. Nero hits it but it doesn't break, and he says to himself "I need to Rev things up first" and you get a hint about Exceed mechanic. Then the dummy only breaks when you have hit it with a succession of Exceed attacks, breaking open to give you a Blue orb fragment or something.

In the end though it seems like Capcom was not interested in putting in resources for this objective. They seem to believe that players in their 10 or so hours of playing the game can figure things out. They have playtested the game, journalists have played the game and they seem to think that people seem to have enough fun with the game as is.

That said from what I have seen in the footage from the final game, Prologue, Mission 1 and Mission 2 are set up like tutorial missions. You are being dropped basic information all the way through. I just hope one of those area has an explanation on Exceed and not the garbage DMC4 explanation where it's a text prompt and doesn't say anything about timing attacks.

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The bolded is precisely where the average modern gamer will get stuck without an explicit prompt.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Anyway this is just pre-emptive criticism based on the demo. The game might very well handle it in an elegant manner and I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, I think this discussion needs to happen within the series going forward because I think there's a lot to be gained from having more people truly engage with the systems in the same way they did with a game like Dark Souls. There are fun ways to force people to learn, and my favorite one is to beat the living shit out of them if they don't :P

Honestly I just want DMD to be the default mode for these games right off the bat, heh.

At the end of the day regardless of how you play this game I find it hard to believe you can not enjoy your time playing it.

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We have had plenty of those people in this thread already ;/

 

[Gilver]

Discovered a pool of blood you can roll around in, stays on for quite some time:

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Where is this pool I want to try it and forgot where it is and forgot where I saw it.

We have had plenty of those people in this thread already ;/

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Like I said I dont believe you if you are not enjoying yourself. ;)

 

[s y]

Where is this pool I want to try it and forgot where it is and forgot where I saw it.

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[Dahbomb]

Ohh so THAT'S where this bloody Nero image came from!

 

[Gilver]

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Holy shit thats so weird and specifically placed. I'll roll all over that when I get home.

 

[Dahbomb]

Holy shit thats so weird and specifically placed. I'll roll all over that when I get home.

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You also need to get there before the Empusas suck it up.

Crazy level of detail thrown in. This demo is the gift that keeps on giving!

 

[Gilver]

You also need to get there before the Empusas suck it up.

Crazy level of detail thrown in. This demo is the gift that keeps on giving!

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What? For why? No wonder I never found it but I appreciate the detail?

 

[s y]

You also need to get there before the Empusas suck it up.

Crazy level of detail thrown in. This demo is the gift that keeps on giving!

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It was still there after killing the enemies

 

[Dahbomb]

What? For why? No wonder I never found it but I appreciate the detail?

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They are blood suckers and all the humans around have been sucked of blood.

 

[Nosgoth]

Capcom released the long version of the collab song with hyde, it contains some new footage of enemies, bosses. Though I wouldn't really call this spoilery, if you're on a blackout, you might as well skip it.

 

[Dahbomb]

Capcom released the long version of the collab song with hyde, it contains some new footage of enemies, bosses. Though I wouldn't really call this spoilery, if you're on a blackout, you might as well skip it.

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That's pretty cool, lots of new footage in there and the enemy designs look SICK!

And that final frame though...

 

[Rendering...]

The big thing that'll get lost I fear is the importance of how when an attack or skill moves you it's not just for nothing. That you are always using moves to reposition Nero while attacking and evading damage. You kind of see that already in here with people not understanding why there isn't a dedicated dodge button. That's a bigger deal than exceed imo.

I think it's also a consequence of the old DMC being gone so long. It was taken for granted that a lot of people played DMC1 and 2 when 3 came out. 3 was the next step in their learning. But 5 is going to feel very foreign and bad for a lot of people I think

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Good point. I think a tutorial battle in the introduction could solve this, the same way the Bayonetta games ease players into combat.

Just stick the player in an encounter similar to the first fight in the demo. Give them objectives they have to complete in order to continue: Close distance with Stinger (which should be a default move), launch the enemy with High Time, keep the enemy suspended in midair with your gun, and so on.

 

[Dahbomb]

 

[Nosgoth]

That's pretty cool, lots of new footage in there and the enemy designs look SICK!

And that final frame though...

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I feel like I've seen this painting back in dmc1, though I haven't touched that game in ages.

 

[Dahbomb]

I feel like I've seen this painting back in dmc1, though I haven't touched that game in ages.

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It was only shown in concept art. We saw something similar in the DmC reboot though.

 

[Noctis]

I feel like I've seen this painting back in dmc1, though I haven't touched that game in ages.

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[Mifec]

I like his hair more in this one. The new trailer one looks hilarious.

 

[Rendering...]

That's pretty cool, lots of new footage in there and the enemy designs look SICK!

And that final frame though...

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Whoa, blast from the past! I hope the game is full of these little references for the fans.

Adding to what Dahbomb said about the fun of self-discovery, the reality is that the majority of people who're gonna be playing a DMC won't actually be interested in mastering it. They'll find what "works," play through the game once (if at all) and never touch it again. If you go out of your way to explain every minute detail, it will likely only confuse and annoy people who don't want to be dealing with this stuff. Explaining the basic interface once and then making every tool intuitively follow the rules of that interface is enough to get players who WANT to master the game to dig a little deeper.

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See below...

Which is why you don't explain it. Instead, you have an obstacle that requires three EX Acts in a row that is recurring throughout the game without just being boring static window dressing. Make it a cool enemy (we already have the honestly shitty red orb crawlers...) that blocks your path every now and then but isn't part of regular combat (nobody wants forced DmC color coding style encounters, right?). Hell, make a RE3 Nemesis type enemy that stalks you when you're out of combat and the only way to not get instantly game overed by them is EX Acting them. Done. No explanation needed. Git gud or get out instead of mashing through the game and being bored.

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Totally nailed it.

Imagining telling your players about all those features.

All 179 of them. https://compete.kotaku.com/fighting-game-tutorial-is-brutally-honest-1823013816

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Lol, I wouldn't be mad if DMC5 included such an exhaustive tutorial mode.

But the problem that needs solving is casual players cluelessly mashing their way through the game and then complaining it's a shallow hack 'n' slasher that doesn't even have the features it actually does, but they couldn't be bothered to find. A tutorial battle at the beginning of the game, and combat puzzles in the form of enemies that have to be killed with specific techniques, are the way to go.

Obviously all of this stuff should have an on/off toggle in the pause menu. The option should be buried on a subscreen to increase the chance that players who don't want to read or learn will be more likely to leave the tutorials enabled.

 

[Nephilim]

Managed to pull off an A rank at the end of the demo.
Counting days to release...

 

[lucebuce]

Discovered a pool of blood you can roll around in, stays on for quite some time:

Click to shrink...

Nico needs to build an arm that's just a water hose because ew.

 

[Oinone]

Discovered a pool of blood you can roll around in, stays on for quite some time:

Click to shrink...

I always wanted to know what Nero likes to do in his free time. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Click to shrink...

That picture looks so goddamn creepy - no wonder both twins grew up having psychological issues. :p

 

[TransEuropaExpress]

Totally agree with tutorials via in-game obstacles/enemy types and so on. The final game may well have something similar in place but the demo really needed it and that's coming from someone who loves, and has played the shit out of, DMC1 and DMC3.

Most people learn by doing, not reading. The walls of text in the loading screens and Options menu ended up confusing the shit out of me in regards to new mechanics (or from DMC4 which I never played) I wasn't familiar with. Whether it's that they're not succinctly phrased or what, I don't know, but it just didn't work for me. I've played the demo probably 20 times through and the only way I learned most of its system I wasn't familiar with yet was trial-and-error and asking questions here which most newcomers to the series can't be expected to do and won't do.

Even as a fan, I totally understand the "feels clunky/slow" comments from first timers, chaining moves in a way that propels you forward and places you stylishly and quickly is even a skill to be learned unlike most other Action games in this series. Most people won't get that because the demo makes no attempts at pointing this out in any manner or forcing you to learn some basic "traversal"-y moves.

To clarify, I love deep games and I personally am fine with it being a fan since DMC1 but many modern players just might not be used to this at all and I could see why they would bounce right off. I'd rather go through a mandatory 5 minute tutorial of things I personally already know from past experience than have the player base hit the dirt.