There are several posted in this thread why don't you read it if you are curious.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition
- Thread starter Equanimity
- Start date
There are several posted in this thread why don't you read it if you are curious.
You are not taking into account that there may not be any VRS in the PS5
Even the ones in the OP are half EX sony devs and current 3rd parties.
its not the most important. the problem is that a lot of you are stuck on one metric or a couple and not looking at what the whole damn architecture puts together as a sum of its parts. this is why specsheet comparisons are stupid. Its like when people see an android phone processor with 8 cores, 16 gigs of ram and think the phone performs better than an iphone with 6 cores and 4 gigs of ram. when literally the OS, the APIs available and the efficiencies found within the architecture really tells how well a system is.
It's a lot easier to mistake specific details about a GPU than a developer raving about an SSD's capabilities though. And MS could be upfront with the consumers but that doesn't mean they were with the developers when they had to.
I think we need to at least agree that Jason isn't making things up and just reports what he hears. His TF number mistake might just be a misunderstanding between a developer raving about the GPU's capabilities over Stadia's (which is based on order architecture either way). I can also guess that since the specs are out of the bag now, a lot more developers are expressing their experiences to him.
Outlets were sent the info on specs early . Hes not supposed to leak anything and he did follow up and say playstion fans will be unhappy with the numbers , plus when he mentioned not knowing the numbers he put (lol) after it.
They don't need to, there are huge marketing machines taking care of creating hype. If one of the consoles is falling behind in hype, people will just converge to the leading one. Studios still make money because their potential audience is just as big, just on a different console.
The notion that these tweets are insincere because somehow the devs' livelihoods depend on it doesn't make sense.
Jason can't say who his sources are, journalism ethic (this is not sarcasm)
Jason never said any of that.
He sais both are aiming to be better than Stadia (so, not a TF discussion, but either way, 10.23 RDNA2.0 is better than 10.7 GCN) and that Xbox is behind in communications with the dev community.
That is called marketing though. The way things are presented in marketing do not necessarily reflect what is actually going on behind the scenes. Which is why despite Sony's poor marketing for this console so far, devs are finding it to be far more capable and far more exciting than many seem to believe it is. What Jason said about communication was to do with devs though, which is likely one of the reasons you're not seeing as many devs brimming with excitement about the XSX.
Uh you mean like exact res an framerates numbers ? If so maybe something like Xbx vs Pro ? 1440 - 1800 vs 2160
Sure bro, good luck with the temps, I bet it almost harly ever get that clocks with 100% ussage.
If a dev has so much as TOUCHED a PlayStation console, then they're a shill for Sony.
I want to hear what Microsoft devs have to say about the PS5
If I had one wish it would be that people realize these upcoming consoles are immensely powerful, that multi-platform games will be nearly identical, and that the games in general are going to be phenomenal. It makes me sad to see all this warring instead of outright excitement. Your favorite games in the next generation are going to be wild.
(and, yes, the PS5 looks to be an incredible machine)
(and, yes, the PS5 looks to be an incredible machine)
Hopefully. I hope it doesn't end up in the same games with 4K / 60 and some graphic tweaks like RT.
Yeah but you say that just cause you uh,...bought a Sony camera that one time?
I never said they "had" to
And I never said their comments are "insincere"
You are arguing over points I never even attempted to make.
There is nothing delusional about thinking that the people who work in this industry might want to give a shout to the biggest dog on the block.
I've seen the graphs and data on this subject, and from what I know about these things an SSD all by itself allows for high fidelity assets due to how fast they can be streamed in. I do not believe the PS5's even faster SSD is going to be a noticeable difference maker in all but a few very specific situations. We'll see this when multiplatform games are compared at launch. I realize now that arguing about this until then is just a waste of time. People are going to believe what they want to believe.
There are literally people suggesting that this faster SSD is going to "close the gap" when it comes to the Series X having a faster CPU, GPU, and more memory bandwidth. There is nothing rational about that.
It's funny you say this right after I literally said the exact opposite thing in the post you just replied to. Myself and I think most people are not suggesting the PS5 is bad in any way. It's merely a push back against all this talk about how an SSD is going to change everything we know about making video games as we know it. Both consoles have an SSD, and yes, the PS5 SSD is clearly faster, but the SSD all by itself is a game changer for games.
My point is that is what people took that as gospel. And he also said that Xbox recently updated devs on the new specs shortly after he said Xbox was behind with communication.
Yeah, thats what I meant. I hope you dont take it personally but you are aware that the delta between the two new consoles in GPU power is more than half as small as the one found between Xboxone X and PS4 Pro? A difference of 1440p vs 2160p seems not based on anything we have from the spec sheets. The delta should really not be bigger than native 1800p vs native 2160p, no? What do you expect the differences to be if both hit 4K 30/60 on a game?
Yeah I am slowly becoming convinced that this is the likely case, especially after watching the NX video this morning.
We also don't really know what software and other features could have an affect on that which the current gen consoles don't"
-VRS
-VRR
-Dynamic Resolution
-Middleware from first and third parties that could solve some problems or slightly make up for some hardware deficiencies (RT)
-How exactly RT works on PS5/XSX GPU's (I think we're waiting on AMD, right)
-The ways major engines like UE cater to the consoles
-etc
I definitely expect some weirdness for the first year at least. Remember when Thief on PS4 looked and ran better than XBO, but for some reason had poor AF implementation, so people ran wild with this "PS4 can't do AF" conspiracy theory?
This is a weird take. No one is claiming that. With visual fidelity and performance, XSX will always have a slight advantage. People are excited because the PS5's architecture has taken some interesting divergent paths from the PC space in that they are pushing system throughput to the max via optimizing both the SSD and the entire I/O pipeline. This will obviously help with efficient utilization of all resources across the entire system pipeline, but it provides more interesting opportunities to change how game worlds and interactions are deigned, aside from visual fidelity and performance. Cerney gave the examples up front in his presentation and provided examples of the performance targets they are going for (think near realtime/sub 1 sec load of assets, etc. in the same vein of inline rom carts of old); this will streamline development by lowering overhead for managing assets in memory, making devs lives easier so they can focus on creating amazing gameplay experiences rather than spending an inordinate amount of time optimizing their streaming engines. It also minimizes world design limitations, LOD limitations, character variety limitations, and interaction limitations. These things all contribute to an expanded breadth of gameplay possibilities. With the visual fidelity and performance being more than adequate and near XSX's, I appreciate the focus on something more than just making the picture on the screen slightly sharper and smoother animating.
Ok, case study for an hypothetical engine.
Imagine an openworld game. The whole area around you is loaded as low level of detail, and occupies about 2GB in main memory. But what is in your field of view is loaded as high level of detail and takes 8GB in memory. When you do a rotation, new high detail assets are being loaded from the SSD and old one discarded. Human eyes FOV is about 120 deg, that's a third of a full rotation, so a full rotation will cycle 24GB of data. With the PS5 SSD, a full rotation will take about 4 seconds, on SeriesX it will take 10s, considering only raw numbers.
For the SeriesX to match the PS5 speed, a full rotation in 4s, the amount of cyclable high res asset would need to be lowered to 3GB. This kind of engine wouldn't even work with a SATA SSD...
Also, raytracing will be done against the low res assets, which should improve performance without sacrifying too much of visual fidelity.
Of course this is simplified to the extreme, but there are many other ways to take advantage of an ultra fast SSD!
Last edited:
But so, it was not incorrect? Just asking because the way I read through your comments is that we should not trust what Jason is saying, but that's maybe a misinterpretation from my end (sorry if that's the case)
This is precisely the problem! This is what you believe.
You are willing to write off the opinion of seasoned veteran developers from some of the top studios in the world because you have an inherent belief that something Sony spent hundreds of millions of dollars on customizing is a bad solution. You are also willing to write off Jason Schrier who just last week trashed Sony's top studio.
I'm also afraid you haven't actually looked into the customizations Sony has done on the SSD side. It's not just about the SSD being twice as fast. The PS5's SSD has its own CPU, has a very large SRAM pool, has a novel indexing system, has a Kraken engine (equivalent in power to a Zen 2 cores), has GPU scrubbers (to alleviate the burden of GPU stalls) - and I could go on and on and on. This isn't about 2.4 vs 5 gb/s. This is about a REVOLUTIONARY way of how the the console speaks between its parts.
So please - XSX is a great machine and will most likely have better RT / Resolution, but the PS5 SSD is a whole lot better and has a ton of extra hardware in the machine to help it so. The PS5 will have better quality assets per frame - and it was designed with that purpose.
But Jason has said that lots of developers have been telling him this, both first and third party. What reason would there be for them to speak about it in such terms if they didn't actually believe it? They're obviously seeing something in it that's really impressing them. Some seem to be taking their praise of the PS5 as being a slight against the Series X, when none of them have said anything negative about it. Go listen to DF's talk about the PS5. They even say that Sony's approach is very different compared to MS. That's not intended to be a knock on MS, it's just pointing out that they're different. Similarly John says that he's happy that they are because it'll make comparisons more interesting since the consoles aren't carbon copies of each other as he'd feared.
Why are people still pushing this?
You know it'd be way more believable that you'd be so irritated with inaccurate information if you didn't post inaccurate information on the very same page of the thread.
you appear to have a lot of your identity tied up in an unreleased bit of plastic and are taking skepticism as a personal attack. Please stop doing that.
I'm just going to reply to both of you since you're saying similar things.
I would love to be wrong about this. I am really excited about both of these consoles. I will likely own both in short order. Should be exciting times this fall when they're both out. Good day to both of you. :)
No I certainly trust him. I'm merely suggesting his words are sometimes taken out of context and hearing things is different than knowing things.
Well, yeah. But that was in response to this:
Which is why I replied under the perception that you agreed with RingRang.
The bottom line is that developers don't need to comment at all on how good or exciting a new console is. If they are, they're doing it because they're actually excited about it. We know, that devs being negative about it is not something we will normally see because that would sour their relationship with the platform holder, but in that case, they'd all just stay silent.
You're implying it by making this seem like it's about marketing. They are just sharing their thoughts first and foremost.
No, some of yall are just being ridiculous. (Yall means you specifically)
That's not what you said.
You said
"Their words are almost as important as the platform holders in selling these consoles"
Which is literally not how consoles sales have ever worked. You are framing their words as marketing first and foremost when its just people sharing their thoughts and excitement.
Talking about anything with any positivity is promotion but that doesn't mean the comments are made in the interest of marketing and selling boxes like you implied. This is horseshit.
Its people excited about new possibilities. Treating it as marketing is literally trying to frame their words as something they aren't.
Agreed. Devs seem happy with MS putting together a box with a lot of needed and forward-facing features that you'd see on PC. Devs seem happy that Sony is trying something new an exotic and exciting. We're all winners here.
no I'm not "implying" anything. Respond to the words i actually typed or leave me alone.
Im not the one being ridiculous here.
Devs excited about new hardware is not really notable news, it's to be expected.
Im not framing them as anything. Obviously people view them as marketing which is why we have this thread.
Genuine excitement can be and is marketing. They aren't two mutually exclusive concepts.
Devs can be excited and quiet. They know their words hold lots of weight so they are very deliberate in what they do and do not say publicly.
Oh Ok, that clears it up, thanks, and I agree :)
Otherwise, I am really enthusiast about both machines, and can't wait for games optimized for them to see the light of day as I also think it could be amazing. And yes, I'd rather talk about that than just explaining why both approaches are great and that we have to look beyond just isolated numbers on a spec sheet.
But several of the devs quoted are not Sony devs....
Until we hear what features the PS5 gpu (like VRS), the only words I am going to take are from the games and company itself. This whole insider situation that just occurred, has really put a damper on 'sources'
Devs get paid because of the game development they do.
In your POV everybody working in any place should on their personal twitter account as a marketing front for the company they work in.
And also these are third party developer why would they care if they sell one extra copy on PS? They probably get the same from instead getting it on Xbox, Switch or PC.
It's just nonsense
Honestly based on the information we have now it appears the differences between XSX and PS5 games is going to be minimal. XSX will probably have ~20%-~10% higher resolution or graphical effects, and a little bit more RT depending upon the workload and game. XSX may have an extra NPC or two onscreen at any one time due to faster CPU speeds. PS5 games will load a bit faster and will have more effective RAM as they are able to load from SSD to RAM at twice the speed.
Maybe we'll learn that one of the console's secret sauces will actually make a bigger difference than expected, but as we stand right now that's not really the case.
Maybe we'll learn that one of the console's secret sauces will actually make a bigger difference than expected, but as we stand right now that's not really the case.
Yikes is taking a comment from an anonymous person in a comment section as proof of anything.
I didn't get involved with that stuff so the spec news hasn't bothered me much.
I would like to hear from people about what they want to do with the tech though, i don't count that as insider leaking.
Oh boy , this won't go well. Get ready for a few more threads today
Yeah the Cerny video was aimed at developers and a lot of information that he talked about probably only experienced developers would grasp the implications of.
Sony marketing could not have done a worse job.