Yes. If I remember correctly XSX wont need to use the slower RAM for games only the faster.
Now thats interesting. I would of thought by the raw numbers the PS5 had the better option since it just has more provided.
Yes. If I remember correctly XSX wont need to use the slower RAM for games only the faster.
Not exactly, 3.5GB out of the usable 13.5GB are of the slower variant. MS are recommending to use those 3.5GB for the CPU and the fast ram to the GPU to minimize the impact though.Yes. If I remember correctly XSX wont need to use the slower RAM for games only the faster.
Now thats interesting. I would of thought by the raw numbers the PS5 had the better option since it just has more provided.
Ok, maybe I understood it wrong.Not exactly, 3.5GB out of the usable 13.5GB are of the slower variant. MS are recommending to use those 3.5GB for the CPU and the fast ram to the GPU to minimize the impact though.
Yes. If I remember correctly XSX wont need to use the slower RAM for games only the faster.
I don't think we know that though. XSX has 2.5GB/s of RAM dedicated to the OS, but we don't know how much the PS5 allocates. NXGamer described a way the super-fast SSD could be used to bring it down to only half a gig, but who knows what they'll do.
I don't think we know that though. XSX has 2.5GB/s of RAM dedicated to the OS, but we don't know how much the PS5 allocates. NXGamer described a way the super-fast SSD could be used to bring it down to only half a gig, but who knows what they'll do.
"It's a shame Sony didn't go for the same trick" - lmao, ps5 has 256bit with uniform ram distribution, optimal for 256bit. xsx has 320 bit and should have 20GB ram but microsoft want to limit console cost production so it has only 16GB ram with 10 full speed. Is 448gb/s small for 10tf ps5 ? It seem so but also 560gb/s for 12tf console.The XSX RAM is better in a vacuum. The slower 6GB will all be used by the OS and CPU which apparently don't need much bandwidth at all, so when it comes specifically to the RAM used by the GPU, where bandwidth actually matters, the XSX will just be faster. It's a shame Sony didn't go for the same trick, but oh well. The PS5 could effectively have more RAM available due to the faster SSD or if it uses less for the OS, but we don't know about that yet.
Overall the 448GB/s will likely be something of a weakness, though I don't know how much, especially if they stick to reconstructed resolutions. Hopefully, if they make a Pro, the RAM gets a big upgrade with 16-24GB of 1+TB/s HBM4 or something.
13.5gb will be used for games. 10gb after the fastest ram and 3.5 "slower" ram. 2.5gb for OSYes. If I remember correctly XSX wont need to use the slower RAM for games only the faster.
I can't believe if I was off by a day ;_;Ok, maybe I understood it wrong.
BTW Didnt recongnize you with your new avatar. Transistor when is mine coming?
"It's a shame Sony didn't go for the same trick" - lmao, ps5 has 256bit with uniform ram distribution, optimal for 256bit. xsx has 320 bit and should have 20GB ram but microsoft want to limit console cost production so it has only 16GB ram with 10 full speed. Is 448gb/s small for 10tf ps5 ? It seem so but also 560gb/s for 12tf console.
100% accurate but waitng for some arguments ;)
The fact that you say that a gpu will be limited by the RAM speed it's not just accurate. The bus width it's much more important when it comes to bandwidth restriction.
To be fair, PC has a ton of bottlenecks that make loading data this fast much more difficult. That's what makes the consoles (and especially PS5 due to a wider array of custom I/O hardware) really exciting when it comes to SSD's, they should be able to actually sustain much higher speeds than PC while using less CPU resources.
More of what provided?Now thats interesting. I would of thought by the raw numbers the PS5 had the better option since it just has more provided.
This is just mind boggling for most game developers, as we've never been able to think like this before and it sounds like crazy talk.
I didn't say it will be limited by ram speed, I wrote bandwidth on paper looks small both for ps5 and xsx.The fact that you say that a gpu will be limited by the RAM speed it's not just accurate. The bus width it's much more important when it comes to bandwidth restriction.
More of what provided?
10gb of XSX's RAM is faster than PS5's.
6gb of PS5's RAM is faster than XSX's.
And that's good because XSX is going to need more bandwidth because it has the more powerful GPU.
Indeed with XSX the 10gb faster RAM will be used for visuals whilst the 6gb will be used for OS reservation and everything else. A bit like how PCs work, albeit even the 'slower' RAM is still massively faster than DDR4 (albeit likely higher latency).
More of what provided?
10gb of XSX's RAM is faster than PS5's.
6gb of PS5's RAM is faster than XSX's.
And that's good because XSX is going to need more bandwidth because it has the more powerful GPU.
Indeed with XSX the 10gb faster RAM will be used for visuals whilst the 6gb will be used for OS reservation and everything else. A bit like how PCs work, albeit even the 'slower' RAM is still massively faster than DDR4 (albeit likely higher latency).
What did I miss, PS5 has some secret additional RAM now?Just provided more RAM if the speculation of the PS5 RAM pool actually happens.
To be fair, PC has a ton of bottlenecks that make loading data this fast much more difficult. That's what makes the consoles (and especially PS5 due to a wider array of custom I/O hardware) really exciting when it comes to SSD's, they should be able to actually sustain much higher speeds than PC while using less CPU resources.
No, but the speculation is that more of the ram could be available to developers thanks to the SSD, considering that Cerny is saying that the SSD can load 2GB in 0.27 seconds. So the relevant OS requests could be loaded to the Ram from the SSD when needed rather than keeping it there at all times.
Honestly Sony deserve this. They've done such piss poor job at marketing the PS5 so far.
Its not even fully revealed and yet the tone has been set that its inferior to the XSX.
If they price yet equal to XSX then they will have a problem.
Soon. Taking a breather. :)Ok, maybe I understood it wrong.
BTW Didnt recongnize you with your new avatar. Transistor when is mine coming?
What could be a reason that Cerny did not mention this in the presentation then? They have been trying to position the lower raw numbers as positive as possible in the presentation, so if this speculation is true, then I'm sure Cerny would have mentioned it. He didn't, so I doubt it.No, but the speculation is that more of the ram could be available to developers thanks to the SSD, considering that Cerny is saying that the SSD can load 2GB in 0.27 seconds. So the relevant OS requests could be loaded to the Ram from the SSD when needed rather than keeping it there at all times.
it's not, it's 320bit for 10GB and 192bit for 6GBWhat it really needs is the bus width which is the same for all 16GB.
I also doubt it's true with regard to the OS reservation.What could be a reason that Cerny did not mention this in the presentation then? They have been trying to position the lower raw numbers as positive as possible in the presentation, so if this speculation is true, then I'm sure Cerny would have mentioned it. He didn't, so I doubt it.
Why would Cerny have not mentioned this then? They have been trying to position the lower raw numbers as positive as possible in the presentation, so if this speculation is true, then I'm sure Cerny would have mentioned it. He didn't, so I doubt it.
See.. thats what Im talking about lol
Sony better get their shit together
Well he didn't mention about the OS at all. The focus was on the ssd and the speed it could work on plus the i/o controllers. This is why its all speculation. Cerny himself mentioned the 2gb speed at .27seconds so that is where all this is coming from. We know nothing about the OS.
They mentioned RAM and bandwidth but forgot to mention that devs could use a higher amount than XSX? In a presentation aimed at devs? If they could do this they would have bragged about it.
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
I'm playing through Jedi right now, and this is very much true. Also true of Detiny and to a lesser extent The Division. I wonder just how much those games will differ in world design when their sequels come out for next-gen only. Will Destiny finally be able to go true open world? Will it be more MMO-like with more than just a handful of people being in the same instance while roaming?
Just curious, has there been any positive and specific dev reactions to the XSX?
I have seen the "Everyone will think the XSX is better, and it a great machine, but let me tell you about the PS5" comments from devs or others but have yet to see anyone directly praise the XSX like this.
Not a thing about choice since I am getting both, but find it odd everyone keeps saying everyone thinks the XSX will get the attention, be the talk but then praise PS5 specifics but nothing on XSX. Is there really nothing unique about it?
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
How much did Sony pay you for this post? Just kidding. Great info and good luck on your games.I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Great analysis, Koralsky. Thanks. Sad to hear about information sharing protocol differences between the two.I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Xbox is superior in some areas and vice versa.
Thank you for posting this. Good to hear from devsI am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Huh? XSX only has 10-15% better graphics performance, while PS5 has 129% better SSD performance. Have you read the specs sheet, mate?
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Thank you for sharing your experience. It really seems like Sony, even though they are weaker, have made a console specifically to make game making much much easier and that's the reason for all the good press the PS5 is getting from Devs. I can't believe how awesome the consoles are that we are getting. Since the SSD announcement I knew that this was going to be another PS2 era golden age. Bring on the awesome indie and AA games.I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.
I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.
I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.
Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.
Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.
My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:
Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.
One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Better CPU, better GPU, higher bandwidth vs better SSD.
If we made a poll 1 day before PS5 spec reveal and asked which one translates to a better overall performance without mentioning any platforms, how many would vote for the second option?
I speculated PS5 would use SSD to try to offset any performance differences way before the official spec reveal and people told me an SSD can't under any circumstance offset performance deficits.
Argue all you want but I have only seen devs say it's an interesting system. You know why? Because it's batshit crazy to claim the PS5 is more powerful when looking at the specs.
You heard what Cerny said right? Freeing up multiple full Zen 2 cores due to their custom hardware? That's not something your average gaming PC has to spare, most people are still on 4 or 6 core processors. And without compression a PC can't get close to what XSX and especially PS5 can reach in terms of average throughput.That is a necessity on console because everything about their design has to do with compromises based on power consumption, form factor and price. A capable PC will be able to spare the necessary CPU and power resources without much issue.