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BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,838
Australia
Now thats interesting. I would of thought by the raw numbers the PS5 had the better option since it just has more provided.

I don't think we know that though. XSX has 2.5GB/s of RAM dedicated to the OS, but we don't know how much the PS5 allocates. NXGamer described a way the super-fast SSD could be used to bring it down to only half a gig, but who knows what they'll do.
 

ThatNerdGUI

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 19, 2020
4,550
I don't think we know that though. XSX has 2.5GB/s of RAM dedicated to the OS, but we don't know how much the PS5 allocates. NXGamer described a way the super-fast SSD could be used to bring it down to only half a gig, but who knows what they'll do.

Size won't matter if the bandwidth it's not there. RDNA is bandwidth limited with 448GB/s 256-bit bus with the 5700 series cards. Hopefully AMD addressed that, but their previous work make me a bit skeptical.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,727
Tokyo
I don't think we know that though. XSX has 2.5GB/s of RAM dedicated to the OS, but we don't know how much the PS5 allocates. NXGamer described a way the super-fast SSD could be used to bring it down to only half a gig, but who knows what they'll do.

Yeah seen multiple techies talking about using the SSD to cache the memory need for the OS since you can get a transfer of 2gb with in .27 of a second so that frees up the RAM. I would be surprised if Sony 1st party doesn't do that. However, we have no clue what the PS5 OS will be doing so that could all be wrong.
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
The XSX RAM is better in a vacuum. The slower 6GB will all be used by the OS and CPU which apparently don't need much bandwidth at all, so when it comes specifically to the RAM used by the GPU, where bandwidth actually matters, the XSX will just be faster. It's a shame Sony didn't go for the same trick, but oh well. The PS5 could effectively have more RAM available due to the faster SSD or if it uses less for the OS, but we don't know about that yet.

Overall the 448GB/s will likely be something of a weakness, though I don't know how much, especially if they stick to reconstructed resolutions. Hopefully, if they make a Pro, the RAM gets a big upgrade with 16-24GB of 1+TB/s HBM4 or something.
"It's a shame Sony didn't go for the same trick" - lmao, ps5 has 256bit with uniform ram distribution, optimal for 256bit. xsx has 320 bit and should have 20GB ram but microsoft want to limit console cost production so it has only 16GB ram with 10 full speed. Is 448gb/s small for 10tf ps5 ? It seem so but also 560gb/s for 12tf console.
 

ThatNerdGUI

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 19, 2020
4,550
"It's a shame Sony didn't go for the same trick" - lmao, ps5 has 256bit with uniform ram distribution, optimal for 256bit. xsx has 320 bit and should have 20GB ram but microsoft want to limit console cost production so it has only 16GB ram with 10 full speed. Is 448gb/s small for 10tf ps5 ? It seem so but also 560gb/s for 12tf console.

Not even close to accurate.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
Dude is one hell of an Xbox Fanboy lol, constantly RT Xbox Stuff and TimDog lol.

So dont know about his credibility and his affiliation to Sony.
 

Septimius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
823
To be fair, PC has a ton of bottlenecks that make loading data this fast much more difficult. That's what makes the consoles (and especially PS5 due to a wider array of custom I/O hardware) really exciting when it comes to SSD's, they should be able to actually sustain much higher speeds than PC while using less CPU resources.

Happy to hear it's not just a case of not using the same power. It really feels like an upper hand on Xbox, and an actual argument against "it's just a three year old PC".
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Now thats interesting. I would of thought by the raw numbers the PS5 had the better option since it just has more provided.
More of what provided?

10gb of XSX's RAM is faster than PS5's.
6gb of PS5's RAM is faster than XSX's.

And that's good because XSX is going to need more bandwidth because it has the more powerful GPU.

Indeed with XSX the 10gb faster RAM will be used for visuals whilst the 6gb will be used for OS reservation and everything else. A bit like how PCs work, albeit even the 'slower' RAM is still massively faster than DDR4 (albeit likely higher latency).
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
This is just mind boggling for most game developers, as we've never been able to think like this before and it sounds like crazy talk.

And THAT right there is why this generation is so exciting to me.

It feels like we're about to get big paradigm shifts this generation in a way we just didn't see last generation.

Like, what, during the transition to this last generation just, threw developers off in the same way? Because to me as a gamer interested in how this stuff works, it just felt like a more powerful version of last generation where a lot of stuff could be done a bit smoother and more pretty and with a bit less compromise with more RAM at dev's disposal. But nothing like, oh man idk how to even tackle how crazy a difference this is in the same way as we're talking about stuff just streaming off the drive into a scene in real time.
 

Vimto

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,714
Honestly Sony deserve this. They've done such piss poor job at marketing the PS5 so far.

Its not even fully revealed and yet the tone has been set that its inferior to the XSX.

If they price yet equal to XSX then they will have a problem.
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
2,773
The fact that you say that a gpu will be limited by the RAM speed it's not just accurate. The bus width it's much more important when it comes to bandwidth restriction.
I didn't say it will be limited by ram speed, I wrote bandwidth on paper looks small both for ps5 and xsx.
"The bus width it's much more important when it comes to bandwidth restriction." - both ram speed and bus width affect bandwidth but I don't know even why you brings this topic
 

ThatNerdGUI

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 19, 2020
4,550
More of what provided?

10gb of XSX's RAM is faster than PS5's.
6gb of PS5's RAM is faster than XSX's.

And that's good because XSX is going to need more bandwidth because it has the more powerful GPU.

Indeed with XSX the 10gb faster RAM will be used for visuals whilst the 6gb will be used for OS reservation and everything else. A bit like how PCs work, albeit even the 'slower' RAM is still massively faster than DDR4 (albeit likely higher latency).

What it really needs is the bus width which is the same for all 16GB.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,727
Tokyo
More of what provided?

10gb of XSX's RAM is faster than PS5's.
6gb of PS5's RAM is faster than XSX's.

And that's good because XSX is going to need more bandwidth because it has the more powerful GPU.

Indeed with XSX the 10gb faster RAM will be used for visuals whilst the 6gb will be used for OS reservation and everything else. A bit like how PCs work, albeit even the 'slower' RAM is still massively faster than DDR4 (albeit likely higher latency).

Just provided more RAM if the speculation of the PS5 RAM pool actually happens.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
To be fair, PC has a ton of bottlenecks that make loading data this fast much more difficult. That's what makes the consoles (and especially PS5 due to a wider array of custom I/O hardware) really exciting when it comes to SSD's, they should be able to actually sustain much higher speeds than PC while using less CPU resources.

That is a necessity on console because everything about their design has to do with compromises based on power consumption, form factor and price. A capable PC will be able to spare the necessary CPU and power resources without much issue.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,844
What did I miss, PS5 has some secret additional RAM now?
No, but the speculation is that more of the ram could be available to developers thanks to the SSD, considering that Cerny is saying that the SSD can load 2GB in 0.27 seconds. So the relevant OS requests could be loaded to the Ram from the SSD when needed rather than keeping it there at all times.
 

UltimusXI

Member
Oct 27, 2017
994
No, but the speculation is that more of the ram could be available to developers thanks to the SSD, considering that Cerny is saying that the SSD can load 2GB in 0.27 seconds. So the relevant OS requests could be loaded to the Ram from the SSD when needed rather than keeping it there at all times.
What could be a reason that Cerny did not mention this in the presentation then? They have been trying to position the lower raw numbers as positive as possible in the presentation, so if this speculation is true, then I'm sure Cerny would have mentioned it. He didn't, so I doubt it.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
What could be a reason that Cerny did not mention this in the presentation then? They have been trying to position the lower raw numbers as positive as possible in the presentation, so if this speculation is true, then I'm sure Cerny would have mentioned it. He didn't, so I doubt it.
I also doubt it's true with regard to the OS reservation.

I think it may be true with regard to what he was talking about - the possibility of a reduced prefetching window leading to more memory being available for what is currently in use. He did give a couple of examples, but the extent of that will vary by game, so you can't really give a singular comparison.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,727
Tokyo
Why would Cerny have not mentioned this then? They have been trying to position the lower raw numbers as positive as possible in the presentation, so if this speculation is true, then I'm sure Cerny would have mentioned it. He didn't, so I doubt it.

Well he didn't mention about the OS at all. The focus was on the ssd and the speed it could work on plus the i/o controllers. This is why its all speculation. Cerny himself mentioned the 2gb speed at .27seconds so that is where all this is coming from. We know nothing about the OS.
 

Koralsky

Member
Oct 28, 2017
183
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
 
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Detective

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,853
See.. thats what Im talking about lol

Sony better get their shit together

I don't know under which rock you have been sleeping the last days but the specs are out buddy. It doesn't take a bachelors degree to figure that out. X is more powerful, even if it's by little. Don't understand why you are acting so surprised.
 

Deleted member 61469

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 17, 2019
1,587
Well he didn't mention about the OS at all. The focus was on the ssd and the speed it could work on plus the i/o controllers. This is why its all speculation. Cerny himself mentioned the 2gb speed at .27seconds so that is where all this is coming from. We know nothing about the OS.

They mentioned RAM and bandwidth but forgot to mention that devs could use a higher amount than XSX? In a presentation aimed at devs? If they could do this they would have bragged about it.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,727
Tokyo
They mentioned RAM and bandwidth but forgot to mention that devs could use a higher amount than XSX? In a presentation aimed at devs? If they could do this they would have bragged about it.

Well to be fair he never said how much of the 16gb could be used for games. The OS could be a bloated mess for all we know and the PS5 games can only use 8gb.
 
OP
OP
Equanimity

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. Is this sentiment shared across other indie devs?

Good luck with Elea.
 
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Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I'm playing through Jedi right now, and this is very much true. Also true of Detiny and to a lesser extent The Division. I wonder just how much those games will differ in world design when their sequels come out for next-gen only. Will Destiny finally be able to go true open world? Will it be more MMO-like with more than just a handful of people being in the same instance while roaming?

It's really hard to say about destiny, since those pathways are also for matchmaking purposes. But maybe so.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,073
Just curious, has there been any positive and specific dev reactions to the XSX?

I have seen the "Everyone will think the XSX is better, and it a great machine, but let me tell you about the PS5" comments from devs or others but have yet to see anyone directly praise the XSX like this.

Not a thing about choice since I am getting both, but find it odd everyone keeps saying everyone thinks the XSX will get the attention, be the talk but then praise PS5 specifics but nothing on XSX. Is there really nothing unique about it?

I think it speaks for itself. Edit: oops, that was a comment I started but never finished.

I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.

Thanks for info
 
Last edited:

Ivanovic

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,362
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
How much did Sony pay you for this post? Just kidding. Great info and good luck on your games.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Great analysis, Koralsky. Thanks. Sad to hear about information sharing protocol differences between the two.

Question (if you can):

Without divulging the number, have you been made aware of the PS 5'sOS footprint? If so, then is it satisfactory?

Danke.
 

Bishop89

What Are Ya' Selling?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,636
Melbourne, Australia
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I design my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers today are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Thank you for posting this. Good to hear from devs
 

Deleted member 61469

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 17, 2019
1,587
Huh? XSX only has 10-15% better graphics performance, while PS5 has 129% better SSD performance. Have you read the specs sheet, mate?

Better CPU, better GPU, higher bandwidth vs better SSD.

If we made a poll 1 day before PS5 spec reveal and asked which one translates to a better overall performance without mentioning any platforms, how many would vote for the second option?

I speculated PS5 would use SSD to try to offset any performance differences way before the official spec reveal and people told me an SSD can't under any circumstance offset performance deficits.

Argue all you want but I have only seen devs say it's an interesting system. You know why? Because it's batshit crazy to claim the PS5 is more powerful when looking at the specs.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,748
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.

Nice, thanks for sharing :)
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
I am an indie developer (Kyodai) with a recent release on all major console platforms (Xbox, PS4 and Switch) and PC. My game is a quite complex one (using UE4) - fully dynamic lighting, PBR materials, volumetric fog, light shafts, dof, heavy post-process profile, etc. As a small two-person studio, I am making all the programming stuff (plus all three console ports with full support for PS4 Pro and Xbox One X), sound design, lighting, scripting, ui, optimizations, environmental art.

I will be short - personally I am more excited for PS5, because of the SSD/io speeds and VR opportunities (I am working on a VR title right now). At first, I
designed my game based on SATA3 SSD performance - I wanted everything to be seamless in the game - no loading screen, everything to be streamed in the runtime without any hitches and pauses. And I succeed until I started testing the game with normal HDD and made the first playable build on Xbox One. I changed quite a lot of the game until I got it to work properly with HDD (I am even using the "industry standard" elevators to stream and release huge chunks of data in runtime. From my point of view the capable developers this gen are making very special magic with the 5400 rpm restriction of today.
I can go in technical details, but it will be a long and boring wall of text.

I must add though that Microsoft, at least in our case, are more open with information about Scarlett (we have detailed relevant information from months). Like I said we are a small indie developer from Eastern Europe. Sony, on the other hand, are not. This doesn't mean that Sony are behind the schedule - maybe they just have a different approach. Maybe they have more (hardware/software) surprises that they want to keep a secret at the moment. If you give detailed information to a vast amount of (small) developers there is a better chance for leaks, etc.

Both consoles will be beasts of machines and huge upgrades to what we have today in PS4/Pro, Xbox One/X. I am execting a new golden era from a game design perspective. Even in AAA form.

Now, on the interesting stuff - I also talked with a friend, who is working for AAA developer (making multiplatform games for many years now) and has the latest devkits of both consoles.

My friend just shows me this pose regarding the power difference in favor of Series X:

hand-showing-small-size-3-5670294.jpg


Sadly can't give you more information because of the strict NDA.

One more thing though - also told me that actually, the PS5 devkit box is bigger than the Series X one. Of course, this can change with the retail version of the consoles. Neo devkit, for example, is huge and vastly different compared to the final Pro design.
Thank you for sharing your experience. It really seems like Sony, even though they are weaker, have made a console specifically to make game making much much easier and that's the reason for all the good press the PS5 is getting from Devs. I can't believe how awesome the consoles are that we are getting. Since the SSD announcement I knew that this was going to be another PS2 era golden age. Bring on the awesome indie and AA games.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Better CPU, better GPU, higher bandwidth vs better SSD.

If we made a poll 1 day before PS5 spec reveal and asked which one translates to a better overall performance without mentioning any platforms, how many would vote for the second option?

I speculated PS5 would use SSD to try to offset any performance differences way before the official spec reveal and people told me an SSD can't under any circumstance offset performance deficits.

Argue all you want but I have only seen devs say it's an interesting system. You know why? Because it's batshit crazy to claim the PS5 is more powerful when looking at the specs.

Well judging by the developers who've posted here and how much more excited they seem about the PS5, I would say the SSD. I actually have said that in the past I think SSDs would be the most significant upgrade this generation, and the faster the better. I don't think this is the gotcha you think it is.

There are posts a few pages back all about why this is so exciting for devs. There's literally one on this page. And there are a few with waaaaay more detail with bullet points and everything explaining why this is so appealing to developers and why the opportunities it provides are so exciting it's hard to process them. I quoted a developer talking like that just a bit earlier in a previous post.

Power depends on what you're talking about doing. If you mean pixels, no contest. Xbox. But there's more to power than pixels. Data speed matters especially now more than previously.
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,862
That is a necessity on console because everything about their design has to do with compromises based on power consumption, form factor and price. A capable PC will be able to spare the necessary CPU and power resources without much issue.
You heard what Cerny said right? Freeing up multiple full Zen 2 cores due to their custom hardware? That's not something your average gaming PC has to spare, most people are still on 4 or 6 core processors. And without compression a PC can't get close to what XSX and especially PS5 can reach in terms of average throughput.