Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

Lady Gaia · Mar 24, 2020

Delusibeta said:
Your example is very silly. If you have to grab assets from the SSD because the player decided to move the camera, you screwed up.

... and yet a former technical art director who runs GDC's Art Direction Summit sees it differently:

He's also not alone in this regard, as other developers seem similarly excited about the ability to load hefty assets in response to gameplay events as well as camera movements.

Crayon · Mar 24, 2020

noyram23 said:
Just on this page there's the father of xbox saying that, I remember number of tweets praising the 'balance'

The way i read it, he's describing the risk as smartly balanced and not the system itself. The setup is pretty novel so mayve hes talking about that. I get what you're saying, tho.

Deleted member 17860 · Mar 24, 2020

Pryme said:
Said it before and I'll say it again.
As far as I can see, There's nothing in the XSX that makes it more than $50 more expensive than the PS5.

This assumption that just because it's more powerful, it's got to be much more expensive...where's that coming from? I mean, I can envision $70 or so in a stretch, but $150?!

The One X was $100 more than the PS4 Pro, but it got there with a much bigger relative power difference, a Blu-ray drive, 4GB extra RAM and a more expensive cooling solution.

Microsoft's also talked up their own solutions too. Everyone knows the common issues and have come up with their own custom solutions. Don't get carried away with the fanboy talk that MS just shoved in parts in a box and brute-forced their way.
His point still stands. I fully expect the SSD difference to be academic. You likely won't see it manifest in anything other than Load times in third party games, and there's no comparison point when it comes to exclusive games anyway.

the only thing i can think of MS doing is off setting the cost of the console and have those SHITTY Seagate 1tb "memory" card SSDs cost 199$ lol ( Its bullshit they are both only giving us 1tb sony only 825gb next gen... I know next gen games will be fucking massive.. COD MW alone is over 200gbs.. and that games textures look like N64 sometimes.. Where only gonna be able to hold like 3-4 games next gen.. :( )that way they can have the console be 499$ but if not its gonna be 599$ I dont see it being cheaper than that..

This is one of the reasons ps4 has sold over 100mil units.. I don't think they can afford it this gen though... but Sony definitely wants and probably will be 100$ cheaper. Also Sony will not give a price until MS does first!

Sabin · Mar 24, 2020

Delusibeta said:
And that's why I think the SSD difference is going to wind up being academic, since I don't think anybody, even Sony's first party, is going to get close to needing that much speed in order to maintain the smooth running of their games. Again, the transition to SSDs will be removing a major bottleneck, but the notion that the PS5's SSD will single handedly enable games that cannot run on the Series X or a PC is extremely dubious at best.

Jep, we already know that it is just stupid to believe that and the biggest showcase for that is the existence of Star Citizen which has an insane scale and works just fine on a "slow" SATA SDD who just read and write at about 500MB/s.

To put it in numbers: The Stanton Star Sytem alone is 747,989,353km³ big and there are ZERO load times whatever you do in it.

I can only recommend to watch the Digital Foundry 3 parter about Star Citizen and the tech behind it and maybe some will stop believing that the Sony SSD is some kind of miracle device that will enable games that aren't possible on either PC or Series X

AudiophileRS · Mar 24, 2020

Delusibeta said:
I'm using the Xbox for my estimates because it's the slower SSD out of the two, and I'm ignoring the hardware compression to demonstrate the worst case scenario, and then demonstrating that said worst case scenario is still more than quick enough for 99.9% of games. There's a point of diminishing returns when it comes to I/O in gaming applications, and I think even the Series X SSD at it's slowest is well past that point.

Consider reading the entirely of the post before responding to it.

I did read the entirety of it and I'd argue that the implication of a developer screwing up for fetching assets based on FOV is based on current convention. I believe convention is changing.

I'd also argue that while accounting for more time will likely remain more commonplace, having to account for less relative time is preferable whether that be 3 vs 6 or 10 vs 20.

If we disagree that's fair enough, we all approach things from a different angle. Apologies if my initial response came across as blunt and impersonal . Sometimes the allure of being smart can't be resisted by my borderline aspiness.

Liabe Brave · Mar 24, 2020

MrKlaw said:
Sony should have comprehensive profiling tools that allow developers (and potentially Sony) to review game performance, including CPU/GPU saturation. They should be able to make reasoned predictions of likely impact on ps5 based on a sampling of PS4 titles to understand how many are likely to throttle, and by how much. They should also have a clear understanding of the minimum clocks (ie how much it would throttle down)

that is all information they likely have now, but are not sharing publically. I hope they're sharing with developers

Sony has an entire studio, SN Systems, which does nothing but make game dev tools like compilers and profilers for other studios to use.

Pryme said:
Said it before and I'll say it again.
As far as I can see, There's nothing in the XSX that makes it more than $50 more expensive than the PS5.

Everything we've seen and heard indicates the Sony SOC will be notably smaller, let's estimate by 20%. If the Series X SOC costs $175, that'd be a savings of $35 at least. PS5 uses 8 2GB RAM chips, whereas XSX uses 6 plus 4 more of half-capacity. That'd probably be a difference of about $15. Sony's lower-sized SSD uses more NAND chips, but of much lower capacity. For sake of argument let's assume that this, and every other aspect of the consoles, is a wash on cost. That's pretty unlikely--Sony still have other areas where they can be more thrifty--but let's assume the worst. That's already a $50 difference on BOM alone.

But there's another differentiator you didn't account for, and that's the presence of Lockhart. Microsoft's low-end machine has to be very low cost, about $200 less than Series X. But the only difference is an SOC 20% smaller than PS5, and two fewer chips of RAM. If this same gap can't even add up to $50 between PS5 and XSX, how can it be more than $50 between PS5 and XSS? But then there's only a $100 gap between the two Microsoft products. In order to have a low shelf price, Lockhart will likely need to take a big loss per console. Which then means Series X needs to take much less of a loss, or better, to make up for it.

Thus, a PS5 with only a $50 difference in BOM below XSX might end up $100 less on MSRP. This is far from guaranteed, but it's clearly a live possibility.

Adder7806 · Mar 24, 2020

Liabe Brave said:
Sony has an entire studio, SN Systems, which does nothing but make game dev tools like compilers and profilers for other studios to use.

Everything we've seen and heard indicates the Sony SOC will be notably smaller, let's estimate by 20%. If the Series X SOC costs $175, that'd be a savings of $35 at least. PS5 uses 8 2GB RAM chips, whereas XSX uses 6 plus 4 more of half-capacity. That'd probably be a difference of about $15. Sony's lower-sized SSD uses more NAND chips, but of much lower capacity. For sake of argument let's assume that this, and every other aspect of the consoles, is a wash on cost. That's pretty unlikely--Sony still have other areas where they can be more thrifty--but let's assume the worst. That's already a $50 difference on BOM alone.

But there's another differentiator you didn't account for, and that's the presence of Lockhart. Microsoft's low-end machine has to be very low cost, about $200 less than Series X. But the only difference is an SOC 20% smaller than PS5, and two fewer chips of RAM. If this same gap can't even add up to $50 between PS5 and XSX, how can it be more than $50 between PS5 and XSS? But then there's only a $100 gap between the two Microsoft products. In order to have a low shelf price, Lockhart will likely need to take a big loss per console. Which then means Series X needs to take much less of a loss, or better, to make up for it.

Thus, a PS5 with only a $50 difference in BOM below XSX might end up $100 less on MSRP. This is far from guaranteed, but it's clearly a live possibility.

Plus things like a physically smaller PS5 can fit more on a pallet reducing shipping costs.

Fargoth's Ring · Mar 25, 2020

Micerider said:
Haha, yeah, I was running some ideas based on known concepts but I am sure it could be wilder.

I was thinking of a Control 2 where the oldest house shapeshifted over time, with environment dynamically morphes into lush jungles or moutain tops.

Or an Assassin's Cree Shogun. Where your morphed Animus between present time and Nobunaga's ear on same spot and pursued hints dynamically based on what you observed in the past in real time, swapping at will.

But I am sure game designers are way ahead of us

I've been thinking about Hello Games and what they could have done with No Man's Sky if they had done it for PS5 with all the dev tools that entails. Seeing how excited indie devs are for the next-gen has me really looking forward to the new experiences they'll bring us.

vivftp · Mar 25, 2020

Can anyone comment on this Youtuber Moore's Law is Dead? Is he known to be an impartial, reliable person, or someone who should be ignored?

His PS5 video popped up in my Youtube feed, and he claims to have spoken with devs regarding the PS5.

endlessflood · Mar 25, 2020

^ That dev kit in the thumbnail is so sexy. I really wish the retail unit looked like that, even if history tells us it won't.

G_Zero · Mar 25, 2020

Sabin said:
Jep, we already know that it is just stupid to believe that and the biggest showcase for that is the existence of Star Citizen which has an insane scale and works just fine on a "slow" SATA SDD who just read and write at about 500MB/s.

To put it in numbers: The Stanton Star Sytem alone is 747,989,353km³ big and there are ZERO load times whatever you do in it.

I can only recommend to watch the Digital Foundry 3 parter about Star Citizen and the tech behind it and maybe some will stop believing that the Sony SSD is some kind of miracle device that will enable games that aren't possible on either PC or Series X

It's no just about size, but size combined with asset density and diversity, as well as a more dynamic world.

Sony essentially has 825 gigs of non-volatile DDR2 RAM in the PS5, DDR3 if you believe the compression numbers to be representative.

vivftp · Mar 25, 2020

endlessflood said:
^ That dev kit in the thumbnail is so sexy. I really wish the retail unit looked like that, even if history tells us it won't.

While it's nice from an industrial, functional perspective, it doesn't rate very high on the mass market appeal scale. I expect the retail unit to be far sleeker, but wouldn't be surprised if it still managed to incorporate the V shape design somehow

modiz · Mar 25, 2020

vivftp said:
Can anyone comment on this Youtuber Moore's Law is Dead? Is he known to be an impartial, reliable person, or someone who should be ignored?

His PS5 video popped up in my Youtube feed, and he claims to have spoken with devs regarding the PS5.

i wouldnt really trust him, but what he claims to have heard from developers do align with what Jason has said.

vivftp · Mar 25, 2020

modiz said:
i wouldnt really trust him, but what he claims to have heard from developers do align with what Jason has said.

Yeah, this video was my first exposure to him. It's entirely possible he's a fanboy making things up, so I was hoping others might know more about him and whether he's got a proven track record of some sort.

modiz · Mar 25, 2020

This is in response to this article

The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically

Digital Foundry Content Producer Alexander Battaglia recently commented on the PlayStation 5 SSD and on how it will not, by itself, change open-world games

wccftech.com

nib95 · Mar 25, 2020

Sabin said:
Jep, we already know that it is just stupid to believe that and the biggest showcase for that is the existence of Star Citizen which has an insane scale and works just fine on a "slow" SATA SDD who just read and write at about 500MB/s.

To put it in numbers: The Stanton Star Sytem alone is 747,989,353km³ big and there are ZERO load times whatever you do in it.

I can only recommend to watch the Digital Foundry 3 parter about Star Citizen and the tech behind it and maybe some will stop believing that the Sony SSD is some kind of miracle device that will enable games that aren't possible on either PC or Series X

You're sort of missing the point here. You could do that star system on current gen, but only if you dramatically reduced asset quality and density (thus less data to load in). The same principle applies to faster SSD's. If Star Citizen was designed specifically around NVMe SSD's and not Sata SSD, it could push world density and asset quality even further, whilst still maintaining the same low load times.

modiz said:
This is in response to this article

The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically

Digital Foundry Content Producer Alexander Battaglia recently commented on the PlayStation 5 SSD and on how it will not, by itself, change open-world games

wccftech.com

It's in response to Dictators post on SSD's benefiting open world games. But to be fair, NXGamer also already challenged him on that post here.

NXGamer said:
I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle, having a vast pool with a much wider pipe to the RAM means that devs and more so artists can ramp up the options within density, detail, materials and worlds. The SSD here gives them a much bigger scope and enables a more streamlined approach to procedural placement, not textured surfaces or MIP chains. Teams use procedural creation to reduce the build and layout time, here they can expand the variety within the Frustum, the variety of NPC models, clothes even enemies within RAM which will reduce the amount of times you see Zombie A in Resident Evil or the face of Shopkeep B in Skyrim 15.

This is the options that SSD and the core design of the process delivers but also a great deal more besides this, something like Legacy of Kain warping of vertices for example could now be an entire transportation of everything within your view and world within a couple of frames, data is still key and will still need to be authored on the Disc and SSD, the option now is how much the devs want to cram into the Frustum and 3D space is no longer limited "directly" by the {Ram / FPS / objects / Stream speed} = Maximum density of game frames. The BIG gain in development time is no longer having to go back through streaming chain and LOD system creating artifical walls to manage this, sector points to initiate seek, or just reduce LOD and MIP bias at a per segment basis to meet target rates and performance.

fourfourfun · Mar 25, 2020

Micerider said:
Ok I'll try :

Portal 3, with new Portal gun that transport you where a beacon has been previously set in an open world, even if in a completely different environment. PS5 could load up the new scene and environment during the portal transition, whilst Series would chug to do so? Just trying to imagine. You seem so fixed on the "it will not make a difference" that your logic works without scenarios where it would be the case (no offense of course, it's not an easy thing to try to model for us).

I was wondering, wouldn't the greater difference on PS5 be centred around whatever their prospective new VR solution is, which is also a huge unknown? The fidelity being presented to the VR player being completely unconstrained by what they are doing, where they are looking.

Obviously, this is a large USP between Xbox and PS as Microsoft are not going anywhere near VR for this gen as it stands.

vivftp · Mar 25, 2020

For anyone interested, HipHopGamer had a video talking about both next gen machines where he speaks with 3 developers. I'm still watching it, but some may be interested in the perspective of developers on both machines. The talk about the machines starts around 16 minutes:

Bonus, he reaffirms his claim of full BC in the comments.

Alexandros · Mar 25, 2020

nib95 said:
It's in response to Dictators post on SSD's benefiting open world games. But to be fair, NXGamer also already challenged him on that post here.

That response seems to address the benefits of an SSD over a traditional hard drive.

nib95 · Mar 25, 2020

Alexandros said:
That response seems to address the benefits of an SSD over a traditional hard drive.

Yes, but also covering specifically potential benefits to open world game design. Read the post NXGamer is actually responding to.

TsuWave · Mar 25, 2020

AllChan7 said:
From my understanding, framerate, RT and resolution will be slightly better and more consistent on SX for 3rd party titles.

From what a lot of people have said in this thread it will be framerate OR RT OR resolution that will be slightly better and more consistent at a given time. Not "and"/all at the same time.

Ivanovic · Mar 25, 2020

Funny how when it comes to price and the thought that the Series X might be more expensive due to it's supposed superiority suddenly it's "There's no difference between the consoles and they'll cost the same" but when it comes to purely spec talk its "Series X is miles superior and Sony dropped the ball with the design".

thuway · Mar 25, 2020

Ivanovic said:
Funny how when it comes to price and the thought that the Series X might be more expensive due to it's supposed superiority suddenly it's "There's no difference between the consoles and they'll cost the same" but when it comes to purely spec talk its "Series X is miles superior and Sony dropped the ball with the design".

Let's not forget: "The SSDs are the same. That 2X bandwith only means the games will load a few seconds faster. Cerny is a marketing man."

Kerberosorthos · Mar 25, 2020

Ivanovic said:
Funny how when it comes to price and the thought that the Series X might be more expensive due to it's supposed superiority suddenly it's "There's no difference between the consoles and they'll cost the same" but when it comes to purely spec talk its "Series X is miles superior and Sony dropped the ball with the design".

They can cost the same as MS invested more in GPU and Ram and Sony invested more into the SSD and probably cooling solution. It might end up being more or less in the same ball park in the end.

Tiago Rodrigues · Mar 25, 2020

vivftp said:
Can anyone comment on this Youtuber Moore's Law is Dead? Is he known to be an impartial, reliable person, or someone who should be ignored?

His PS5 video popped up in my Youtube feed, and he claims to have spoken with devs regarding the PS5.

Every time i watch a video or read an article i understand more and get more excited about the PS5 than by watching Sony's Deep Dive.
Almost 2 weeks later and i still can't get what they wanted with that. Also...that same presentation now has almost 14M views. Holy shit!

thuway · Mar 25, 2020

Kerberosorthos said:
They can cost the same as MS invested more in GPU and Ram and Sony invested more into the SSD and probably cooling solution. It might end up being more or less in the same ball park in the end.

I don't know about that. So Sony purposefully went with a much smaller APU, 256 bit bus, and a smaller hard drive - so they can be at price parity?

I guess the 8 billion a year they make from PSN must not be enough, because they'll be a whole lot less if they come it at price parity.

Alexandros · Mar 25, 2020

nib95 said:
Yes, but also covering specifically potential benefits to open world game design. Read the post NXGamer is actually responding to.

I did, as well as Alex's responses. I don't think they are contradictory, both seem to agree that the move to SSDs will be quite beneficial. Alex's Star Citizen video demonstrated that.

Tiago Rodrigues · Mar 25, 2020

Kerberosorthos said:
They can cost the same as MS invested more in GPU and Ram and Sony invested more into the SSD and probably cooling solution. It might end up being more or less in the same ball park in the end.

The cooling system is "a few dollars per unit". The SSD is the only thing leaving me unsure on how they will price the PS5 honestly. It's not like Xbox SSD is cheap as well.
It all comes down to whether MS really is releasing another cheaper model or not probably.

thuway · Mar 25, 2020

Alexandros said:
I did, as well as Alex's responses. I don't think they are contradictory, both seem to agree that the move to SSDs will be quite beneficial. Alex's Star Citizen video demonstrated that.

But do you agree that Sony's faster 5.5 gb /s ssd plus customizations to the FLASH controller will have significant advantages in platform ps5 exclsuvies?

modiz · Mar 25, 2020

Tiago Rodrigues said:
The cooling system is "a few dollars per unit". The SSD is the only thing leaving me unsure on how they will price the PS5 honestly. It's not like Xbox SSD is cheap as well.
It all comes down to whether MS really is releasing another cheaper model or not probably.

a repeating key term in this talk by cerny was "cost efficient", that was true for the GPU (going fast over wide was a cheaper option, meaning the cooling added isnt nearly the amount of money spent on the additional transistors), the SSD is made to be cost efficient (size for example). Sony are paying less for ram as well. By my own estimations, PS5 should cost $40~50 less to manufacture.

Kerberosorthos · Mar 25, 2020

Tiago Rodrigues said:
The cooling system is "a few dollars per unit". The SSD is the only thing leaving me unsure on how they will price the PS5 honestly. It's not like Xbox SSD is cheap as well.
It all comes down to whether MS really is releasing another cheaper model or not probably.

It is hard to tell for sure but let's keep it simple and assume because of the more power of the XSX the prodcution costs will be higher than for PS5. What could we expect ? 30 dollar per unit more ? Would that lead to a PS5= 399 XSX= 499 situation ?

MrKlaw · Mar 25, 2020

thuway said:
But do you agree that Sony's faster 5.5 gb /s ssd plus customizations to the FLASH controller will have significant advantages in platform ps5 exclsuvies?

we may never know as there won't be an Xbox version to compare

Alexandros · Mar 25, 2020

thuway said:
But do you agree that Sony's faster 5.5 gb /s ssd plus customizations to the FLASH controller will have significant advantages in platform ps5 exclsuvies?

Absolutely. I don't know how big the advantage will be as I'm not a developer but it seems like common sense to me that designing exclusively for a higher spec allows you to take advantage of it in a way that having to take into account different configurations doesn't.

Tiago Rodrigues · Mar 25, 2020

Kerberosorthos said:
It is hard to tell for sure but let's keep it simple and assume because of the more power of the XSX the prodcution costs will be higher than for PS5. What could we expect ? 30 dollar per unit more ? Would that lead to a PS5= 399 XSX= 499 situation ?

It all depends if MS is willing to take a bigger loss than Sony.
But no way is Xbox Series X coming out at $400. I'd be less surprised to see both at $500 but that would be a huge mistake on Sony's part i think. The PS5 is a great machine and it's great to see Sony doing something more risky than simply the typical increase in numbers for the specs. But it makes their console a bitch to promote to an audience because in the end, the narrative already out there is this: PS5 is weaker, Xbox Series X is the most powerful, therefore better console. This is what people see. And it's Sonys fault for that to be honest. And going "but the SDD..." isn't going to help nor will audiences in general care.

They know they need price at their advantage. That's why they will both be afraid to come out with a price.

AllChan7 · Mar 25, 2020

TsuWave said:
From what a lot of people have said in this thread it will be framerate OR RT OR resolution that will be slightly better and more consistent at a given time. Not "and"/all at the same time.

I'm willing to bet RT will be the more noticeably impressive feature on SX. Granted Sony hasn't shown their RT yet so guess we gotta wait and see

Jekked · Mar 25, 2020

nib95 said:
Yes, but also covering specifically potential benefits to open world game design. Read the post NXGamer is actually responding to.

so, you are saying that due to the PS5 SSD we are going to see open world games nextgen that will be only possible on PS5 and not Xbox Series X?

MrKlaw · Mar 25, 2020

Jekked said:
so, you are saying that due to the PS5 SSD we are going to see open world games nextgen that will be only possible on PS5 and not Xbox Series X?

Its possible we'll see open world games that show benefits on PS5 compared to Xbox. They may only be small - eg better LoD due to faster asset streaming, but when engines are so complex, every little helps to bring together the final image you see on screen.

endlessflood · Mar 25, 2020

Jekked said:
so, you are saying that due to the PS5 SSD we are going to see open world games nextgen that will be only possible on PS5 and not Xbox Series X?

It wouldn't surprise me if some first party titles took that route.

Iron Eddie · Mar 25, 2020

Tiago Rodrigues said:
It all depends if MS is willing to take a bigger loss than Sony.
But no way is Xbox Series X coming out at $400. I'd be less surprised to see both at $500 but that would be a huge mistake on Sony's part i think. The PS5 is a great machine and it's great to see Sony doing something more risky than simply the typical increase in numbers for the specs. But it makes their console a bitch to promote to an audience because in the end, the narrative already out there is this: PS5 is weaker, Xbox Series X is the most powerful, therefore better console. This is what people see. And it's Sonys fault for that to be honest. And going "but the SDD..." isn't going to help nor will audiences in general care.

They know they need price at their advantage. That's why they will both be afraid to come out with a price.

Funny how in the same sentence you phrase things like the PS5 is doing things more risky versus a typical increase in numbers. Then go on to downplay those who think the series X will be more powerful but think the PS5 will be cheaper??? You make absolutley no sense and it's a little disengenuous to give little to no props of Microsoft's engineering here, this whole console warrioring stuff is really tacky. Cerny is the only smart one in the room and can build higher quality at a discount?

I get it, you mentioned before this is a PS5 thread but to what extremes are you willing to go to downplay the Series X just because we are in a PS5 topic? Both systems look to be making a big jump from the current gen compared to last gen to this one.

endlessflood said:
It wouldn't surprise me if some first party titles took that route.

First party will likely always shine more but we will never know since they will never reelase those first party on the other system.

endlessflood · Mar 25, 2020

Walken said:
First party will likely always shine more but we will never know since they will never reelase those first party on the other system.

I wasn't referring to quality, I just meant that the game designs might hinge around the PS5 SSD in a way that might not be possible on a slower drive (in answer to their question).

Iron Eddie · Mar 25, 2020

endlessflood said:
I wasn't referring to quality, I just meant that the game designs might hinge around the PS5 SSD in a way that might not be possible on a slower drive (in answer to their question).

Sony has some of the best artists out there, look at what they are still capable of with games like Ghosts of Tsushima and Last of Us 2. As for the differences between Series X and PS5 for open world games I think some are just trying very hard to find discrepencies in each hardware to make them unique. It's not like Series X is some slow SSD and again we will never know unless Sony ports those games to PC to make some sort of comparison. Sony used to market games on the PS3 as only possible on that hardware. Well yeah, of course they can because they never appeared on anything else!

The biggest takeaway in all of this is it means in the PC space they too will be mandated games to run off of SSD's. This means all open world games should be vastly improved. This is not some secret sauce where only Sony have managed to crack the code and therefore only their games can do things nobody else can. Cerny is a good speaker, I'll give him that.

Mubrik_ · Mar 25, 2020

IMO, I don't think the SSD is going to differ much (in comparison to the XSX).

The SSD in general could affect how games are developed yes but major differences between PS5 and XSX seems unlikely to me except for 1st party content that is.

I like to think of the SSD Sony went for as one to Ease development in various ways (eliminate as much bottlenecks as possible) and alot of future proofing.

Marble · Mar 25, 2020

Walken said:
Funny how in the same sentence you phrase things like the PS5 is doing things more risky versus a typical increase in numbers. Then go on to downplay those who think the series X will be more powerful but think the PS5 will be cheaper??? You make absolutley no sense and it's a little disengenuous to give little to no props of Microsoft's engineering here, this whole console warrioring stuff is really tacky. Cerny is the only smart one in the room and can build higher quality at a discount?

I get it, you mentioned before this is a PS5 thread but to what extremes are you willing to go to downplay the Series X just because we are in a PS5 topic? Both systems look to be making a big jump from the current gen compared to last gen to this one.

First party will likely always shine more but we will never know since they will never reelase those first party on the other system.

MrKlaw said:
we may never know as there won't be an Xbox version to compare

If ND, SSM, Guerilla or Insomniac explain how their new game pushes the PS5 SSD to it's limit with certain gameplay systems, we know the same game would not run on Series X or at least not run smoothly/without loading.

M3rcy · Mar 25, 2020

Marble said:
If ND, SSM, Guerilla or Insomniac explain how their new game pushes the PS5 SSD to it's limit with certain gameplay systems, we know the same game would not run on Series X or at least not run smoothly/without loading.

They could probably run, just with less fidelity in the assets. You might see some textures "fuzz" in (distinct from the jarring pop-in) as the full fidelity version of the texture loads in from SSD and is transitioned to from the base version over a frame or 2.

disco_potato · Mar 25, 2020

noyram23 said:
Can someone tell me why PS5 is praise as being more 'balanced', been seeing it from devs and hardware people themselves.

Sony is paying them off, obviously. . . ...

Marble · Mar 25, 2020

M3rcy said:
They could probably run, just with less fidelity in the assets. You might see some textures "fuzz" in (distinct from the jarring pop-in) as the full fidelity version of the texture loads in from SSD and is transitioned to from the base version over a frame or 2.

That is the case if you assume the SSD will only be benificial for graphics/IQ. I'm talking gamedesign. If Spider-Man 2's NYC gets a huge visual upgrade and is bigger and Spidey swings through the world at speeds that actually push the IO throughput to it's limits. I'm just speculating here, but these are the things I'm eventually hoping for from Sony's first party devs.

M3rcy · Mar 25, 2020

Marble said:
That is the case if you assume the SSD will only be benificial for graphics/IQ. I'm talking gamedesign. If Spider-Man 2's NYC gets a huge visual upgrade and is bigger and Spidey swings through the world at speeds that actually push the IO throughput to it's limits. I'm just speculating here, but these are the things I'm eventually hoping for from Sony's first party devs.

If you're moving that fast, you aren't going to notice detail as much and you can get away with moving lower-quality assets in instead of the high quality ones you'd need while moving slower. There's very little that can be done on the PS5's SSD that isn't also possible on the XBSX's SSD. The PS5 will just be able to do it with better performance/fidelity.

Sklaary · Mar 25, 2020

Louise Kirby on Twitter

“@IronMaaasel @blueisviolet @XcloudTimdog @digitalfoundry @Colteastwood @xboxdynasty What concerns me the most about the PS5's RT implementation is that there is no sign of a higher level API to do RT with All MC said was "you gotta use a new instruction in your shaders" which to me screams...

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Marble · Mar 25, 2020

M3rcy said:
If you're moving that fast, you aren't going to notice detail as much and you can get away with moving lower-quality assets in instead of the high quality ones you'd need while moving slower. There's very little that can be done on the PS5's SSD that isn't also possible on the XBSX's SSD. The PS5 will just be able to do it with better performance/fidelity.

We will see about that. I'm pretty optimistic Sony is not putting it in for nothing. We don't really have games built from the ground up for these kind of things, so we just have to wait and see.

M3rcy · Mar 25, 2020

Marble said:
We will see about that. I'm pretty optimistic Sony is not putting it in for nothing. We don't really have games built from the ground up for these kind of things, so we just have to wait and see.

They didn't put it in for nothing. They put it in for the same reasons the XBSX has one. They just took it further.

Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

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