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Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
I don't understand what you said in the last sentence. But again, I just said it was full predictable knowing the limit of the console hardware and their engine.

I think they meant to say that the current-gen consoles are a known quantity and likely have been to Bethesda since late 2012/early 2013 (maybe even before depending on when they got dev kits/learnt about the specs). As such there's no excuse for them developing 2 games now that fail to run at even a relatively stable 30fps.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,736
There will never be hardware powerful enough to run Bethesda games. I know Ubisoft has a signature jank in their games but how Bethesda keeps getting away with this shit is crazy to me. Not even a good deal fixes this shit.
 
Dec 17, 2017
234
I thought dynamic resolution scalers were put in games to keep the framerate high and consistent. WTF is it doing for this game exactly?
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,153
New York
The fact an OG PS4 has higher framerate than the Pro in the same scenario is mind boggling. How is that even possible?

I was thinking of getting this on the X for 4K HDR but thankfully I went PC instead where so far the performance has been mostly fine with a 1080.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
I thought dynamic resolution scalers were put in games to keep the framerate high and consistent. WTF is it doing for this game exactly?

A resolution change won't really make a difference if it's the CPU that's taking a beating. It can mitigate it somewhat but when the things being simulated are so heavily at fault there is only so much the rather blunt-force solution of dropping the resolution can do.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
There will never be hardware powerful enough to run Bethesda games. I know Ubisoft has a signature jank in their games but how Bethesda keeps getting away with this shit is crazy to me. Not even a good deal fixes this shit.

I'm going to be contrary here and mention that Skyrim VR ran like a dream simply because it absolutely had to.

It's certainly the exception to the rule.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,979
Down to 10FPS on the X, gotta say I'm kinda impressed.
Not really surprised by the rest, won't touch the game for a long time, it's just not acceptable anymore, when pretty much every other AAA studio can give us a pretty solid to just a locked framerate. It's not even like Bethesda's games are some super unique thing anymore like with Oblivion, Fallout 3 or even Skyrim were.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,221
Management at Bethesda doesn't like delaying games apparently. Hell, maybe you should have waited until next E3 and released it that November instead.
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
This reasoning is horseshit right? I feel like we've heard this every game starting with Oblivion.

Rendering every object in the game world with full interaction and physics IS definitely a point in favor of immersion. However, everything that comes about as a result is a pretty huge point against immersion, and that adds way up. Massive amounts of bugs, crashes, performance issues, and other hiccups rip me out of immersion way harder than being able to pick up rubble immerses me further. They have to realize this, and are just making excuses.

Meanwhile, The Witcher 3 doesn't let me loot every book off a bookshelf, but it still holds Skyrim down and spits in its dumb face over and over again when it comes to immersion.
Apparently it's an important aspect to people, otherwise Skyrim alone wouldn't have sold 3 times of what The Witcher 3 did. Or the game on itself as much as the whole Witcher series. Or how Fallout 4 shipped more copies in 24 hours than TW3 in 1 year... talking about who is actually spitting in someone's face. Immersion is subjective after all. Just because you don't think it's necessary it doesn't mean it's not working. Apparently the trade-off is worth it and the overwhelming majority of the gaming audience seems to not care about framerate.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
Apparently it's an important aspect to people, otherwise Skyrim alone wouldn't have sold 3 times of what The Witcher 3 did. Or the game on itself as much as the whole Witcher series. Or how Fallout 4 shipped more copies in 24 hours than TW3 in 1 year... talking about who is actually spitting in someone's face. Immersion is subjective after all. Just because you don't think it's necessary it doesn't mean it's not working. Apparently the trade-off is worth it and the overwhelming majority of the gaming audience seems to not care about framerate.

Red Dead Redemption 2 just had the biggest entertainment launch in history and the only things you can directly manipulate in that game are corpses.

Ignoring the fact that sales =/= quality, tying sales to this one singular aspect of gameplay (the ability to move around every little piece of junk) is a ridiculous argument. Skyrim didn't sell well because it promised to let you hold a button to move a sweet roll, it sold well because it was an accessible fantasy adventure with massive amounts of content and ways to play.
 

Hyperbole

Banned
Nov 16, 2018
83
Red Dead Redemption 2 just had the biggest entertainment launch in history and the only things you can directly manipulate in that game are dead bodies.

Tying sales to this one singular aspect of gameplay (the ability to move around every little piece of junk) is a ridiculous argument. Skyrim didn't sell well because it promised to let you hold a button to move a sweet roll, it sold well because it was an accessible fantasy adventure with massive amounts of content and ways to play.
Don't be knocking my Skyrim Sweetrolls lol. It is pretty ridiculous really.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
Don't be knocking my Skyrim Sweetrolls lol. It is pretty ridiculous really.
bk0i8nnnzwzy.jpg


What? Did someone steal your Sweet Roll?
 

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
Damn, I can't even stomach looking at these games that have improper lighting after playing RDR2.. Yikes!!
 

~Fake

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
Ouch all those perfomance. Even X...

edit: Christ about first page. When I saw 'locked 20 fps' I almost had a heart attack.
 
Last edited:

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
Red Dead Redemption 2 just had the biggest entertainment launch in history and the only things you can directly manipulate in that game are corpses.

Ignoring the fact that sales =/= quality, tying sales to this one singular aspect of gameplay (the ability to move around every little piece of junk) is a ridiculous argument. Skyrim didn't sell well because it promised to let you hold a button to move a sweet roll, it sold well because it was an accessible fantasy adventure with massive amounts of content and ways to play.
I never said that object manipulation is tied to game sales. The previous poster stated it's an excuse and adds little to immersion, while I disagree due to the series's popularity. I do think though that the promise and decent execution of full immersion is selling games. You don't need to have spectacular physics it in your game but it's working for Bethesda. You can't deny that. Yeah their games perform like crap but it doesn't seem to bother people which you can see when you look at the sales numbers. Just trying to push the lazy dev narrative isn't working. There's a reason why they stick to that concept and try to build around the engines limitations, rather than developing something like The Elder Scrolls Online which has a far more potent engine for online games. And the one thing I was bothered about in ESO all those years was how static, theme-park-like everything felt because interactions always felt very superficial and immersion-breaking.
Bethesda sells you a sandbox where you're supposed to be able to "do everything you want".

RDR 2 is another sandbox game with he same premise but different execution and technology and they do an even better job with their approach.

I'm also not the one bringing up pointless comparisons; it's just that Witcher comparisons in Bethesda threads try to have a "this is how it's being done right" notion which doesn't work out well.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,128
https://fallout.bethesda.net/articl...-76-upcoming-features-and-fixes-november-2018

Patch in a few days that's meant to focus on performance. FOV slider and push to talk 'in a few weeks'. How does it take a few weeks to put a FOV slider and push to talk in your game.
The current limit is there for technical reasons, to cap the number of items the game is tracking in the world, including every container and stash.

Isn't this a known issue that goes back quite a ways?
 

Clocian

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Apr 23, 2018
839
heh...and people will continue to give them passes *shrug*
 

Ichi

Banned
Sep 10, 2018
1,997
10fps on xbx, 15fps on ps4...hahah wow. So lemme get this straight, Bethesda tested and knowingly shipped this game with that kind of performance?
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,351
Damn, I'm so glad I didn't buy this game. To think I was so close to going for it.
When will Bethesda do something about their god awful engine technology? I heard they are (essentially) using the same tech for Starfield and ES6??
 

scottbeowulf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,379
United States
Red Dead Redemption 2 just had the biggest entertainment launch in history and the only things you can directly manipulate in that game are corpses.

Ignoring the fact that sales =/= quality, tying sales to this one singular aspect of gameplay (the ability to move around every little piece of junk) is a ridiculous argument. Skyrim didn't sell well because it promised to let you hold a button to move a sweet roll, it sold well because it was an accessible fantasy adventure with massive amounts of content and ways to play.

This isn't true at all. You can move, break, knock over most small objects like bottles, boxes etc. Shooting at many objects actually breaks them apart realistically. It's got way more interaction than any recent Fallout other than being able to drop an object in the woods and being able to go find it 30 hours later. And it looks, plays, runs miles better. R* has been refining their engine for many years.
 

Shpeshal Nick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,856
Melbourne, Australia
I mean, I never got a chance to experience those kinds of frame rates.

I glitched behind a rope barrier within the first 5 minutes of the beta and couldn't get out so I just uninstalled it.

Reading about that performance is just...something. It's the inconsistency of it that's staggering.
 

Phonomezer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,078
They'll have a lot to prove with their next release, this sounds like a disaster and I'll be avoiding it.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,119
The funny thing is that everyone including Bethesda saw this coming a mile away. I mean from the outside looking in it just looks like this was just Bethesda testing the waters for an online Fallout game so they went the easy route of reusing the same engine and reusing a lot of the assets.
 

oneils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,097
Ottawa Canada
I'm going to be contrary here and mention that Skyrim VR ran like a dream simply because it absolutely had to.

It's certainly the exception to the rule.

Well all of their older games run pretty well on current hardware. So bethesda games do tend to get better performance as hardware gets more powerful. Not saying that's how they should develop, just that i don't think that guys statement is completely accurate. Maybe he is talking about consoles.
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,024
people are exaggerating a bit, there are some bad spots but the game is largely locked at 30
 

Ombala

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,241
Xbox X on same location went down to 15 to 10 FPS

When we have games like RDR2 that looks 100 times better and run much better to.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
What I find worst is as people stated, Bethesda acknowledging part of the problem that their games run like shit is because they value immersion so much that the game keeps track of almost everything.

Now think about how they simplified conversing in Fallout 4, and overall quest design in Fallout '76.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,787
What I find worst is as people stated, Bethesda acknowledging part of the problem that their games run like shit is because they value immersion so much that the game keeps track of almost everything.

Now think about how they simplified conversing in Fallout 4, and overall quest design in Fallout '76.
Nothing immerses me more in a wasteland than hearing DankBoi420 eat chips through his always on mic.
 

Beastie91

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
742
Bay Area CA
Ew yeah ima just stick with red dead and smash this holiday season thats more than enough thank the lord above I skipped this.

I mean you might as well find your nearest junkyard and play in it if you really wanna play with trash that bad...
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,299
I never said that object manipulation is tied to game sales. The previous poster stated it's an excuse and adds little to immersion, while I disagree due to the series's popularity. I do think though that the promise and decent execution of full immersion is selling games. You don't need to have spectacular physics it in your game but it's working for Bethesda. You can't deny that. Yeah their games perform like crap but it doesn't seem to bother people which you can see when you look at the sales numbers. Just trying to push the lazy dev narrative isn't working. There's a reason why they stick to that concept and try to build around the engines limitations, rather than developing something like The Elder Scrolls Online which has a far more potent engine for online games. And the one thing I was bothered about in ESO all those years was how static, theme-park-like everything felt because interactions always felt very superficial and immersion-breaking.
Bethesda sells you a sandbox where you're supposed to be able to "do everything you want".

RDR 2 is another sandbox game with he same premise but different execution and technology and they do an even better job with their approach.

I'm also not the one bringing up pointless comparisons; it's just that Witcher comparisons in Bethesda threads try to have a "this is how it's being done right" notion which doesn't work out well.

You implied that The Witcher 3 is less immersive due to its lack of object manipulation and, therefore, that's why The Witcher 3 had lower sales. Your argument ignores the fact that Fallout 4 was the sequel to a massive 2008 game from the developer of an even bigger 2011 game, or the fact that The Witcher 3 was a relatively low-budget affair that still managed to sell amazingly well for what it is, and instead puts it all on the immersion factor of being able to manipulate objects at will. I'm also not a fan of this continued insistence that the games are fine because of their sales; sales =/= quality and sales do not exempt something from criticism, that's just not how things work.

Also if you feel like people are pushing the "lazy dev narrative" then report them, it's literally against the rules.

This isn't true at all. You can move, break, knock over most small objects like bottles, boxes etc. Shooting at many objects actually breaks them apart realistically. It's got way more interaction than any recent Fallout other than being able to drop an object in the woods and being able to go find it 30 hours later. And it looks, plays, runs miles better. R* has been refining their engine for many years.

Yeah, you're definitely right here. I mainly meant the fact that you can't go and pick up any random object and move it around freely. So, when Arthur shows a complete disregard for manners and drops a can of Baked Beans on the floor he can't then pick it up and move it onto a table like you can in Skyrim or Fallout. The only stuff you can do that with are context-sensitive mission items and the corpses of people and animals.