DF: Microsoft has developed a console GPU that is more performant and more feature-rich than any Navi part AMD has shipped in 2019

Mack

Member
May 30, 2019
1,649
All of this is in service of what Microsoft believes to be the most powerful console of the next generation era. Previously known by its codename of Anaconda (under the Project Scarlett umbrella) the aim has always been to double the outgoing X's prowess with 12 teraflops of compute performance as an internal target. Microsoft sees performance leadership as the crucially important for the core gamer, with Xbox One X - and indeed PS4 Pro - as a successful trial in establishing that committed gamers will pay more for a premium experience.
TL;DR
Xbox Series X GPU eats monsters for breakfast.
 

Birdseye

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
User Banned (3 days): Console warring, concern trolling
This has to be an environmental disaster, right?
 

Joule

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,296
So consoles are getting slightly larger to accommodate better hardware. Cool. The belief that limits of a console can only max out at 230 watts are a thing of the past now.
 

Stygr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,456
If we 'do the math', in raw teraflops alone, the new console is indeed a 12TF machine based on Microsoft's stated comparisons with Xbox One and the X. However, if we're dealing with performance in like-for-like workloads, the Navi architecture's improvements deliver more perf for your teraflop than prior GCN tech, and our tests suggest that a 9-10TF Navi GPU can provide the requisite doubling of performance up against Xbox One X even before other new architectural features come into play.
This makes more sense then
 

kami_sama

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,135
We already knew that the gpu inside the series x is something new.
Unlike the xone and the ps4 and upgrades to them, this is cutting edge tech.
 

sonnyboy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
335
I rarely get into these threads at the ground floor, I'm going to enjoy reading this throughout the day.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,949
Yeah, 9-10 TFLOPs are much more in line with something anyone should realistically expect.

A 12 TFLOP RDNA GPU would be much faster than just 2x XBX
 

Biggzy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
141
Yep. I have mentioned it previously on this forum but the reason for the size of the console is because some serious power is going to be out in this thing.

It also safe to say that if the PS5 is going to be in the same ball park power wise, it will have to be of a similar size - thermals will dictate it.

I also concur with Richard that it does seem that MS and Sony are once again being pushing the envelope of console performance.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,939
Yeah, 9-10 TFLOPs are much more in line with something anyone should realistically expect.

A 12 TFLOP RDNA GPU would be much faster than just 2x XBX

It would be faster. But not that much. 12Tflops is 20% more performances than 10Tflops on the same architecture. And even that doesn't scale that much. 10 to 20% isn't going to be much of a change in a game. It's more of a comfort zone. People are debating between 10 to 12Tflops as if it would change things in a meaningful way.
 

Dracul

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Nov 2, 2017
384

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,885
This has to be an environmental disaster, right?
That's what I thought of too. Those dickheads with the black smoke bellowing out of their giant automobiles.

In reality though, I think power management is something that's come on a lot. Bet when you're watching Netflix it uses very little juice.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,248
Are they really gonna eat a 300-500$ loss on every console? Certainly have the deep pockets to do it.

1 TB SSD, premium GPU and premium CPU gonna be expensive AF
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,619
360 GPU was better than anything ATI had on the market at the time. Similar gpu came out a bit later with X1800. Last time AMD really didn't have anything better, the existing part was what they had.
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,475
Seattle, WA
Tbf, I don't expect more than 250W TDP.
50W CPU
150W GPU
50W everything else

APU, lack of PCIE-buses and more compact mobo means that console can get lower TDP than a similarly specced PC on same node with similar tech.
 

etta

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,871
Now they just need Obsidian to learn how to push those buttons and get some eye melting graphics on a well written story. Playground is already there I presume, they’ve yet to prove their storytelling prowess, though.
 

scabobbs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,346
Are they really gonna eat a 300-500$ loss on every console? Certainly have the deep pockets to do it.

1 TB SSD, premium GPU and premium CPU gonna be expensive AF
They absolutely do. They are assuming (correctly i imagine) that they will make that money back and then some on subscriptions, services, software, peripherals, etc. Its a big risk, but they probably assume they won't sell a ton of this presumably premium priced console ($599?), and most of their sales will be the cheaper Series S or whatever they call it which will cost the standard $399 entry price for new consoles.

I think its a pretty smart strategy. They can compete with PS5's $399 price tag or whatever with the Series S, and then blow the PS5 out of the water in terms of performance with the Series X. Having their cake and eating it too :)
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,619
Are they really gonna eat a 300-500$ loss on every console? Certainly have the deep pockets to do it.

1 TB SSD, premium GPU and premium CPU gonna be expensive AF
I think it's going to be expensive, by that I don't mean 500 bucks. It's going to be more, GDDR6 is still relatively new and expensive type of RAM. 16GB of GDDR6 is no joke. on top of SSD and very large APU, I won't be shocked if it cost 700s buck or similar. If it was going to be 500 they would not consider a cheaper weaker console which is going to be 300 400 buck by itself. That's the only way it makes sense.

People are going to get a sticker shock next year when the prices are revealed. gotta find 3 jobs.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,248
They absolutely do. They are assuming (correctly i imagine) that they will make that money back and then some on subscriptions, services, software, peripherals, etc. Its a big risk, but they probably assume they won't sell a ton of this presumably premium priced console ($599?), and most of their sales will be the cheaper Series S or whatever they call it which will cost the standard $399 entry price for new consoles.
I'd assume 599$ is gonna be the max they're gonna charge (maybe even less) but from what we're hearing the hardware seems to be more expensive when we take similiar PC parts.

I guess you're right and they expect to make the money back via services (which is probably a good bet for the hardcore segment this thing is targeting).

I think it's going to be expensive, by that I don't mean 500 bucks. It's going to be more, GDDR6 is still relatively new and expensive type of RAM.
I'm 100% certain they won't sell this thing for more than 599$. Maybe even less.
 

ekim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,199
I can see them charging $600 for this. Throw in a year of Gamepass at this rate pls.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,328
Damn, I don't know if I should be scared of the retail prices Sony and MS will announce.
 

Super Barrier

Member
Nov 20, 2017
842
I’m starting to believe this will be at least $599 maybe $699. I will stomach this just because Gamepass will save me the money. Balances out...
 

DukeBlueBall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,475
Seattle, WA
Are they really gonna eat a 300-500$ loss on every console? Certainly have the deep pockets to do it.

1 TB SSD, premium GPU and premium CPU gonna be expensive AF
This is where Lockhart comes in. Had Xsx been the only SKU it had to be weaker since losing $200+ per console will be hard to stomach even for MS.

But if the Xsx is only a fraction of the total console sales, the loss per console sold averages out to much less, assuming that Lockhart is more break-even. A 4+TF APU should be less than 200mm in size, should be way cheaper and requires less cooling smaller box, etc.

They get the performance crown narrative with Xsx without paying as much upfront. The trade off is the risk that third party devs don't take full advantage of Xsx.
 

CanisMajoris

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
493
Consoles are releasing at the end of 2020 so they'll be using the newest AMD tech, not sure why people are assuming current NAVI cards are any indication.