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DF: Pokémon Sword/Shield - Switch's Next-Gen Pokémon Doesn't Quite Deliver
- Thread starter Deleted member 31092
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You would think the first mainline game of one the biggest gaming franchises in the world to get BOTW treatment, but instead you get what looks like early PS3 game at best. I say early because in the last year of PS3 we got Ni No Kuni which was a re-imagine of a DS game done right and it looks better than Sword/ Shield.
I don't know how can anyone look at MHW, DQXII and Granblue Fantasy then be satisfied with how Sword/Shield looks and animates.
I don't know how can anyone look at MHW, DQXII and Granblue Fantasy then be satisfied with how Sword/Shield looks and animates.
My God. I have nothing against GameFreak and the Pokemon franchise in general but with so many games out already showcasing what the Switch is really capable of, this is an embarrassment. Also, no AA, at all? I can't even.
The "BOTW treatment" is incompatible with both the production pipeline and the style of game. It could be significantly more polished than it is, but a production comparable to BOTW is just not happening for a variety of reasons and will never happen until GF/TPC decides they don't like money any more.
TBH it seems like they need a new engine asap. I don't know how that's going to work with training and transferring assets (incoming more dex cuts!) but if they're continuing to make console games this seems like they're going to have to.
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The open world Pokemon game with like a million bajillion square miles and 500 Pokemon running around everywhere is never gonna happen. I don't think most Pokemon fans even want that. Another year in the oven, some more staff and dev on board, some more confident direction, and I think these games can get back to having regions as big and content-packed as the DS games with sufficient polish... which is a good starting point going forward.
Pokemon merchandise is the real moneymaker, so it isn't in the stockholders' best interests to wait more than 3-4 years between new gens. I think they should go back to 4 year gaps and spend the extra year working on the game.
Pokemon merchandise is the real moneymaker, so it isn't in the stockholders' best interests to wait more than 3-4 years between new gens. I think they should go back to 4 year gaps and spend the extra year working on the game.
Thank you Digital Foundry for pointing out the most obvious problem that collapses Game Freak's reasoning, if the Lets Go Pokemon roster models are done then why aren't they compatible or in the game?
People invested hours and hours into those games and they can't even use those Pokemon in Sword and Shield?
People invested hours and hours into those games and they can't even use those Pokemon in Sword and Shield?
The Y-Comm only runs locally by default, you have to open it and manually connect to the internet.
LOL. Maybe they were really good at a time, but I don't know how anyone can say this with a straight face nowadays. None of their 3D games have had anything close to good level design and their game design shows a fear of change and them being stuck in the 90s as far as JRPG conventions go
Also going back to 2D games makes absolutely no sense. Sprite animations for Pokemon would be significantly more, non-reusable, work, battles would lose their dynamic cameras and a while wealth of other issues
Keep telling yourself that.
I have no idea why people feel the need to be apologists for GameFreak. They produce the game of the biggest franchise on planet Earth. Nobody should be defending them putting out shoddy product.
As a long time pokemon fan (since gen 3) I think it's clear GF needs help with the current release schedule they have. People who say GF should step back are being needlessly extremists in their claims. It's clear GF has a really hard time adapting to new hardware. I think they should definitely partner up with another studio if they intend on going forward with this almost nearly yearly schedule they have going.
I would have given GF a pass if this was their usual "baby steps" stuff but in many instances Sword&Shield is an actual regression for them.
Hell, people made fun of me when I said that the Let's Go games looked better but at the end they actually executed the artstyle and overall gameplay flow much more successfully than the so called "core games".
Yup, they either need to re-evaluate their yearly schedule or get big support from Monolith Soft or other studios.
Or better yet, both.
When Square Enix talked about HD developpement, it wasn't just shaders or resolution. But also visual fidelity that comes with it. There's nothing "HD" with what GameFreak is producing. They're still on a scale of handheld/128 bits era when it comes to their productions.
Even if they stick to a new game every year, they really have no excuses, even the AC games Ubisoft released a few years ago were decently looking and they were also periodic releases.
I have played until the 2nd Gym, and the texture quality, polygon count in NPCs, pop-in... seem from a 3DS game. Even Xc2 that has a lower resolution looks far better thanks to good material/texture/detail quality. And I'm comparing it to a JRPG that will sell less than 2 millions, not even to the big Nintendo games.
I have played until the 2nd Gym, and the texture quality, polygon count in NPCs, pop-in... seem from a 3DS game. Even Xc2 that has a lower resolution looks far better thanks to good material/texture/detail quality. And I'm comparing it to a JRPG that will sell less than 2 millions, not even to the big Nintendo games.
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The yearly schedule has to go. It's going to get worse once we get into the Switch 2 and its even stronger hardware.
Third version should be a thing of the past unless it's a substantial sequel like BW2. Put it all in the original game or as DLC. And as I said earlier, go back to four year gaps.
2019: Sword/Shield
2021: Diamond/Pearl remakes
2023: Gen 9
This schedule along with help from an outside studio like Monolith, I have to imagine, should still keep the gravy train flowing for shareholders while letting the games breathe a bit more.
Third version should be a thing of the past unless it's a substantial sequel like BW2. Put it all in the original game or as DLC. And as I said earlier, go back to four year gaps.
2019: Sword/Shield
2021: Diamond/Pearl remakes
2023: Gen 9
This schedule along with help from an outside studio like Monolith, I have to imagine, should still keep the gravy train flowing for shareholders while letting the games breathe a bit more.
To be fair, Kanto is pretty dense in content. Plus it's fairly nonlinear which rewards exploration.
People say GF's level design is top notch and I just don't see that. Every Pokemon mainline game is designed for you to go from point A to B with little inbetween. Unova was particularly egregious and Kalos wasn't much better. It's stale game design and one they're still not deviating from. It's disappointing, moreso than the technical performances which are to be expected if you know GF.
I'm not saying they should go open world. They can do a hub world for example where the environments gradually change. Instead of passing through a gate and the environment suddenly changes to desert or snow level.
A couple of months after seeing the witcher 3 on switch there are some people defending this?
This is inexcusable. This is a game made with the mentallity that it is being still done on a 3DS and not in a much superior machine that is the switch. I know that nintendo only owns 30% stake of The Pokemon Company but they should try something to stop gamefreak doing these games.
This is inexcusable. This is a game made with the mentallity that it is being still done on a 3DS and not in a much superior machine that is the switch. I know that nintendo only owns 30% stake of The Pokemon Company but they should try something to stop gamefreak doing these games.
At least Morimoto might actually prioritize valuable content instead of wasting resources on shit like Pokemon camp.
But why?
GF can easily sell 15+ million copies every year with rushed games like SwSh so I don't see why they should change.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean nobody does. I love Pokémon Camp.
This makes it worth it:
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Because as a consumer I would like the games to be better? They could add microtransactions to games too and probably get away with it. But this schedule is only going to encourage crunch and risk the final products being more and more unfinished.
Geez, that comparison with BotW and X2 hurts. I remember that first year dreaming about how incredible Pokemon on Switch would be.
Then let's go came and I knew better.
Then let's go came and I knew better.
Because it's a series without competition, mainly aimed at kids with a huge nostalgia component with older players.
I absolutely agree with you, I'm sad Pokemon will never be really next gen too but really I don't think GF cares about crunch and unfinished games.
I would prefer if Monolith can use their staff for their games to be honest, their last game shows that allowing half the people to help in BotW was bad for Xc2. I mean, obviously Nintendo should have delayed the game 6 months or so in compensation. But even so, Xc2 is a far more ambitious game than SwSh.
Can't quite understand how Three Houses has got a free pass in terms of graphics. That game looks like ass (and I love it, I'm playing it at the moment). Sword/Shield looks much better.
Even so, the games looked great for the hardware and had lots of content. As much as I think that AC games were all the same, it's not like Pokémon has lots of new things either.
Because it's a smaller serie. With a smaller budget. And yet, within its own serie, it managed to expand visually and in term of mechanics in a big way.
People don't give Three Houses "a free pass", they constantly criticize the poor graphics but the difference is that 3H is an actual great step forward for the series so the lackluster visuals are more forgiven.
Also, Sword&Shield doesn't look much better either.
Yep, and have two teams working on the games mostly separately. I know that's supposedly happening right now... but I don't really believe it.
Well, 3 Houses looks bad, this I agree, but it has 4 campaigns and lots of new additions to the FE series. Good characters, a new class system, good lore and setting, all the boring monastery stuff... Not all in the game is perfect, but it's ambitious and it shows that IS has decided to fix all the problems with the 3DS entries, specially the game writing and setting. It's a shame that the game looks bad, and relying in Tecmo Koei for the development shows here, but I don't think the 2 situations are comparable at all.
Morimoto was director at a time where Game Freak were at the top of their game on a hardware they mastered perfectly. It was a time where even Masuda was directing great games that everyone in the fanbase loved. It's useless to compare to their current situation, there's very little Morimoto could do because the main problem GF face is time and manpower against games of a much bigger scope than before. Besides, he's still working on the games in a pretty important position.
People longing for the Morimoto days are actually longing for the DS scope of the games back. Where you could pretty easily add features with minimal time and effort.
People longing for the Morimoto days are actually longing for the DS scope of the games back. Where you could pretty easily add features with minimal time and effort.
In addition to the very pressing budget issues, there's also another issue with modern Pokemon that's very apparent, albeit nowhere near as urgent.
Sword and Shield suffer from the same issue as Xenoblade 2 in that it's very clear that the directors decided to focus on a lowest common demonstrator, and it came at the expense of the game's quality.
In Xenoblade 2's case, this problem was all of the otaku pandering and anime tropes that were added at the expense of the game's writing and characters (although hopefully, if Torna is any indication, Monolith Soft has learned from this mistake).
In the case of Sword and Shield, there are two elements to this. The first is Masuda's/Ohmori's desire to pander to the mobile market above all else. This has resulted in what many consider to be the "dumbing down" of the franchise, as highlighted in the forced EXP share, the removal of the Battle Frontier (and now, the neutering of the Battle Tower*), the removal of dungeons, and the increased linearity of the games. This also can explain many of the new additions to the game, such as Pokemon Camp, and Dynamax - the first doesn't have much depth to it, and the second is poorly balanced, but they both look very good on the back of the game's box.
The second element of this is the shift in the games from an adventure/exploration-based game, similar to BOTW and the Fromsoft games, to a story-based RPG, similar to Xenoblade and Fire Emblem - but the games don't have the writing quality that held Xenoblade 1 and some Fire Emblem games up. This can be seen in the significantly increased focus on cutscenes and story moments. IIRC, the first Pokemon game that had a cutscene that lasted over five minutes was Platinum (the Giratina reveal). Black and White, as well as X and Y had a few lengthy cutscenes near the story climax, but this issue hit a fever pitch in Gens 7 and 8. Sun and Moon take around 25-30 hours to beat, and it has around 6 hours of cutscenes, whereas Sword and Shield take around 15-20 hours to beat, and it has around 4 hours of cutscenes. That's a good 20-25% of the game spent on cutscenes, and I don't think many people would say that Sun and Moon's story (much less Sword and Shield's story) is on par with that of Xenoblade 1 or even Three Houses.
The ironic thing with this is that games that place a heavy focus on challenge (i.e. Bloodborne) and exploration (i.e. BOTW) have come into favor in recent years.
To put it simply, a lack of time and resources is the most pressing problem that Pokemon faces, and needs to be resolved first. But the games' need to pander to mobile games above all else makes it such that even if they had 6 years of development time, and a budget of $500 million, the games still wouldn't end up being great. This is why so many of us believe that both Masuda and Ohmori need to go.
* For those of you who don't know, it seems that the Battle Tower is significantly easier to clear than its equivalents in previous generations - there seems to be no Pokemon restrictions (even though the NPCs don't use the legendaries) unlike in previous gens, and a loss doesn't send you back to the start.
Three Houses doesn't really get a free pass in terms of graphics, but many consider it to have the best characters and one of the best stories in the entire series. It has a redeeming quality in what fans consider to be a key pillar of the series (the story and characters), and as such, the graphics aren't as intolerable.
Pokemon Sword and Shield, on the other hand, doesn't really have a redeeming quality - and as such, the graphical flaws are far more glaring.
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Poor graphics are all KT but so are the gameplay and story improvements.
Pokemon camp is one of the most enjoyable features in the games. A lot of people are loving it too.
We don't know anything about the budget for these titles.
I have hardly seen anyone online criticise this title. It seems like double standards to me. And Pokemon SnS looks much, MUCH better than FE-TH. It's not even a contest.
In fact, when you put it this way, FE3H puts Pokemon to shame. It expanded on everything. Sure the visuals aren't great, but they're a huge improvement on every departements. And the content is meaty af.
I can tell you the marketing budget for a Pokémon game might be more than the entire budget of the FE serie.
One is lucky to break over 2 millions. The other constantly breaks over 10 millions.
Way way way waaaaaay smaller series with a more niche audience and smaller budget, and yet the jump from the last FE to FE Three Houses was huge its less of an excuse and more fans were floored by the jump it had and now with Three Houses selling well they potentially could improve alot from here.
Lol you must had been living under a rock or not paying too much attention to TH threads here.
It's also a hugely less popular series than Pokemon with hugely lesser sales and yet it tries to improve in every front.