And? We are talking about development budget, not marketing budget. We don't know how the development budget compares between the two titles.
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DF: Pokémon Sword/Shield - Switch's Next-Gen Pokémon Doesn't Quite Deliver
- Thread starter Deleted member 31092
- Start date
And? We are talking about development budget, not marketing budget. We don't know how the development budget compares between the two titles.
This is an interesting opinion but sadly I don't know that much about how IS works internally. We know that most IS was NOT working in the game, but that several key positions directed the game. I don't know who made the gameplay decisions, and the writing seems to change from game to game. The main writer of Fates was that famous japanese guy that worked in several anime and TV drama... and it was bad. This time is clearly better and a huge improvement over the last games, but IDK who actually came up with the settings and characters (main story is kind of meh tbh).
And Pokemon's budget is still likely to be far higher considering the number of staff engaged.
And even if they were of a similar budget... Fire Emblem budget constraints reflect the niche statut of that serie.
Pokémon is a serie that makes billions. The brand itself is fucking huge. No excuse here.
Dunno how you can't understand it's so straightforward. Expectations and what was delivered at large are just very different.
1. It's not a 10-15 mil seller that sets different expectation which somehow a lot of people have a difficulty grasping and I dunno why.
Like are you going to criticize a small indie dev that they aren't competing in graphics with AAA? Of course not cause it doesn't make a lick of sense.
2. It did a not quite minor revamp of what the series was moving away from child mechanics again and restraining themselves on the fan service compared to fates and while they had older games to look at it the changes compared to the last game are noticeable. (The point here is that it's a bigger iteration than what the usual pokemon game gets)
3. It has FULL voice acting while having a very sizable script. For Japanese RPGs this is a quite unexpected spend of budget. I mean why doesn't Pokemon have that? I mean call it a design choice if you want but it's another convenient avenue in where the games are saving resources while they earn more than a majority of games in general.
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This doesn't mean things couldn't be better but also the Fire Emblem community isn't known to throw a tantrum and label people as toxic when someone actually makes a detailed post in how the game doesn't look that good and that the monastery sections are a bit too tedious.
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Are you seriously comparing a niche series with a multi-billion franchise?
Three Houses will be lucky if it sells 4-5 million LTD, Pokémon sells in the 10-15 million and can possibly go beyond that.
The fact is that GameFreak does not give a single fuck about quality, if only Nintendo was the main developer of Pokémon, we would get a high quality game every year.
Just to add I don't think it's likely it's ever reaching 4 mil it isn't particularly close to 3 mil currently.
https://twitter.com/nibellion/status/1189828111317291009?s=21
Given how lackluster the DLC also has been so far I just don't expect it having a sudden insane boost pushing it to 4 mil. It's going to be lucky if it outsells Fates imo.
4-5 million is not niche by any metric (nor are any multi-million sellers). Nintendo would not be able to produce a high quality game every year, that's just not a realistic timeframe. Even BOTW's sequel which seems to be using the same engine and some of the same assets seems like its going to take them at least 3 years. Xenoblade 2 took 3 and a half.
They're not selling 4-5 million Lol. They just beat awakening with 2.29 mil vs 2.28 mil and are still behind fates 2.94 mil(and that had the whole 1 game per route thing going for it). There isn't a single Fire Emblem game that sold over 3 mil currently afaik. FE Heroes is probably the most profitable entry for FE. Stop basing your argument on false information when the correct info was already provided just cause it's convenient for a point you wanna make.
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But I guess it's okay to make excuses and pull Game Freak to the standards of games that sell less than 5-7 times that they do. The amount of stanning never fails to amaze me. Can't wait until people make excuses for ShSw because games from 2 man indie teams aren't looking as good.
If you want to compare Pokemon to a 4 mil seller compare it to Dragon Quest 11. That one is close to that or over that.
Selling a few million copies, I would not call that niche at all.
Fire Emblem: Awakening was the last shot Fire Emblem got to become big before being put on the freezer. It managed to go from niche to a decent multi-million seller and help the Nintendo brand. Still, Fire Emblem is more at the level of SMT (not Persona) while Pokemon is at the level of COD.
Imagine a pokemon game with production quality of a dragon quest 11 S(or make it 11 base if the voice acting is the unrealistic scope killer) a game that sold 2-3 times less than most pokemon entries. But I know that is too big of an expectation and totally unfair to have. *eye roll*
The way I see it, the dev team behind Three Houses didn't go on record saying that culling characters and features was being done in service of better animations and graphical quality. Then again, Fire Emblem doesn't sell Pokémon numbers either, so expectation has to be adjusted accordingly.
What I quite don't understand is why some people are bending backwards to justify this game's shortcomings.
It does look like ass and it was one of the reasons why i didn't get it yet, but I'm sure gameplay is improved and alot of new fun things added, unlike what's going with GF and Pokemon.
If GF want to release a technically weak game at least they should give people alot of good content, I'm sure if they did that and not removing 60% of the dex people will give them a pass for the technical shortcomings.
It doesn't get a free pass though? Everyone agrees that the graphics are terrible.
Eight years ago, Fire Emblem was about to join F-Zero at the Nintendo cemetery. It only started performing well in recent years. Pokémon on the other hand has performed extremely well for 20+ years.
I'm just gonna chime in to say that a game like this has no excuse not to have the scope, graphical features and environmental detail of something like Zelda Breath of the Wild, Xenoblade 2, or Dragon Quest XI S. It's going to sell more than any of them.
If it looks a generation behind, is ripe with visual bugs, and has omissions like entire cities where you cannot enter buildings (In Pokémon, really?) the only normal reaction is to criticise it.
If it looks a generation behind, is ripe with visual bugs, and has omissions like entire cities where you cannot enter buildings (In Pokémon, really?) the only normal reaction is to criticise it.
What's funny is that if I were to compare Last of Us 2, GoW, Spiderman, etc graphics with Pokemon ShSw that would be a less disingenious comparison than what people are doing with Fire Emblem, despite the wildly different target aesthetic.
How is Fire Emblem at the level of Persona when it sells more and makes more money than Persona? I wish SMT was as popular as FE too, that would mean sales going up by more than 2M+ and several new games being announced all the time.
This is objectively wrong. The recent Fire Emblem games have sold on par with Persona 5 (and Three Houses will sell more than it).
Mainline games have been technically weak since XY, so GF definitely was given a pass for the last 6 years yet they never caught up.
Do you mean "...at the level of SMT..." ? I'm a bit confused by the sentence.
At the time we didnt know what town was, but the matter of fact is that gamefreak is just 150 people and they divided their attention onto 3 projects, Town, Lets go pikachu and eevee and pokemon sword and shield(lets go probably started in 2017, SW/SH probably in 2016 and town probably also in 2017). Models of pokemon is the first thing that is done. Its the world, story and technical aspects that comes after that. If lets say a game runs like shit and GF want a delay to fix it, there is a verry high chance that the pokemon company straight out says no.Lol, I'm not sure how seriously I can take a video that said "massive large scale video game called Town"
And I don't buy that reason, nor has it really made sense to me, for one main reason, Gamefreak are the ones who design the new pokemon, region and characters.We know from numerous interviews the studio is pretty much solely in charge of designing all the concepts for each new generation. TriggerShy created a whole thread compiling interviews on it
How Game Freak Designs Pokémon
Pokémon designs are incredibly varied in their shapes sizes and inspirations and as a fan of the series, I'm always interested to learn about the overall process of creating Pokémon. What does Game Freak look for in a Pokémon? How do they decide where to put them? What ideas inspired them? What...www.resetera.com
But the point is, ALL other merchandise, whether it be the TCG, toys, plushies, or the anime ALL require finalized model sheets before they can even start their work. Maybe there was a time when that wasn't the case (I remember old TCG designs having minor errors), but by now that process is probably standardized. So given that, if anything, the other groups in TPCi are at the behest of Gamefreak finishing those.
But that probably only accounts for the pre-production phase, which typically lasts on the order of months. I wouldn't be surprised if once that's done for a new generation, Gamefreak gives an estimate, based on the scope and scale of the game they have in mind, how long it'll take them to develop and the other teams coordinate around that. I think the problems then arise because once that estimate is given, that date is probably set in stone fairly early as all the different teams have to coordinate around releasing their products around the same time, and that's what trips Gamefreak up because they usually run up against that deadline, which they themselves probably hand a hand in deciding, and end up having issues. Another point in this favor is the fact Gamefreak, if they truly were at the behest of TPCi's deadlines and limited budget, wouldn't split their team to develop 2 games simultaneously (nor would they allow small groups of devs to develop side titles).
As i said earlier, gamefreak at its core is still a handheld developer. So it would be wise to outsource some stuff to another company for gen9(maybe ask for a small portion of the development power of 1 of the 4 monolith soft studios). Next up is probably Diamond/Pearl/Platinum remakes for 2020. That project is probably allot more streamlined bc the skeleton is already there (All the pokemon, the narrative, the number of towns, dungeons ect) they just need to reimagine the workd in 3d
I didn't give them a pass for sure since the X and Y days, but now things just got way worse with each new game.
Oh yeah. But what I mean is that FE is bigger than both Persona and SMT, so the comparison doesn't make sense.
This is mostly unrelated to the Pokémon discussion, but that comment was wrong.
They had over 1000 people working on SwSh when you include contractors. GF may just be bad at delegating.
Yep makes more sense FE is indeed bigger than SMT no question. For Persona though it is bigger mostly
because of Heroes yes but outside of FE Heroes it's actually very comparable to current Persona. Last number I remember for P5 was like 2.7 mil?
Given a comparison between games itself makes more sense than a comparison between franchises overall(because the success of Heroes isn't going to 100% determine what console/mainline FE games get as their budget) and in that sense I wouldn't be surprised going by what they sell and how the end product looks that the dev budget for current 3H and P5 is in the same ballpark.
Yeah, out of all the "become closer to your Pokémon" side modes, Pokémon Camp is the first one I enjoy.
Awakening sold more than 2M, Fates was very close to 3M and FE:TH will sell more than that (meaning it'll beat P5 too). FE has both the highest numbers and the consistency over Persona.
But yeah, the "look" doesn't seem to imply they're in the same ballpark. But I assume that happens because it takes a lot of years for a new Persona game to release, while FE seems to get a new game every 2~3 years.
That yellow portion of the bar. People love the creatures more than anything else about this IP and you can bet features like Camp are likely appreciated by a shitload of people more than esoteric battle mechanics and features, so its hilarious to see people complain about catering to that audience. Also holy shit @ Trading Cards earning a comparable amount to the video games.
I'm surprised there's no purple. I thought the TV show did well for them.
I think that's more of an immeasurable promotional impact.
I never used any of these camp/amie features and I would say I love the Pokémon. I just prefer the other features and post-game battle stuff. I think it's not very fair to always say people who like this stuff don't matter and don't deserve to get their favorite aspects of the games in.
seriously where did you get that info from, looked it up via google and it states:
Approximately 200 Game Freak employees worked directly on the games while around 100 people from Creatures Inc. worked on 3D modeling, and 100 more were involved in debugging and game testing. Junichi Masuda estimated the total number of people involved to be 50% greater than previous Pokémon titles.
If it is actually near a thousand than its no wonder that things didnt go smooth. For any studio its way to much to delegate more than 300 ish people, especially when a part of that is outsourced and maybe even in a different time zone.
Maybe. Since they keep making it, I suppose it has to do well for them in some way.
Yeah I know the numbers I wrote them up above in an earlier post. It still means that current Persona is very similar in sales to mainline FE games.
Also I wouldn't be so sure about FE 100% outselling P5 given that P5 is going to have royal to boost it's numbers while 3h so far only has a lack luster season pass. I just don't really know if FE games have strong sustained sales. Just speaking from the perspective that was really befuddled at people thinking 3h would sell 4-5 mill. To me it seems it's going to be quite impressive at this point if it's going to be the first FE game to crack 3 mil.
No disagreement on the consistency though. Persona's rise is more recent than Fire Emblems rise.
Isn't that the default setup of almost of Nintendo 1st party games since forever..
Anecdotal, but my sister liked to borrow my 3DS to use Amie, while Lets Go is the only game shes ever bought, partially because of the focus on her favourite Pokemon (pikachu). Honestly I think a standalone Nintendogs type game would probably do pretty well lol.
Pretty much. Im more interested in knowing which Nintendo titles have it.
My sister loves this kind of stuff too, but she also gets frustrated that recent games have no facilities like the BF and the PWT. So I don't think you have to pick one over the other.
I would enjoy the idea of a tamagotchi/nintendogs like Pokémon game too, I just never cared about the Amie side stuff and I don't like that it influences the RPG part with that stuff like "your Pokémon survived because it loves you", etc.
As I've said before, I think Game Freak needed more time with this. Not sure if its' TPC or Nintendo calling the shots on their deadlines, but it seems like Game Freak really struggled with getting this done in time and that's a pity when you look at the ambition they had with this title.
Says the bookmarking stalker.
If you don't like people rightfully criticizing aspects of the game, then you don't have to stay here.
As it should. It's the biggest video game franchise lol. You're not really saying anything crazy here.
The difference here is where TH lacks in graphics, it makes up for that in content. GF doesn't do that, instead lacking in both departments.
I can only guess there was some problem with the importing of models.
Maybe the evolved engine had an unforessen compatibility problem.
That was then, this is now. It is not a niche game anymore.
And it also has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Pokemon still routinely outsells FE by +12 million. That doesn't justify slightly better graphics in trade of the removal of many features.
What other +10 million franchise is still treated this cheaply? WWE? No one is defending that.
Hey, I do think Pokemon Camp is a cool idea.
Definitely a good evolution of Pokemon-Amie.
This.
I know people like to say that Nintendo needs a title every year for revenue, but that's what we have DLC for.
Game Freak could create a smaller, internal studio completely focused on supporting a title for a year by fixing performance issues and adding additional content like replacing already beaten trainers with much stronger ones after finishing the game or new clothing or new facilities, etc. . By the end of that year, they release a complete package of the game + DLC.
Not only are they keeping their yearly releases this way, but that way they have the possibility to make money from the bigger base that initially bought into a new Gen that is always larger than the amount of people purchasing third versions.
And if they would do this for longer than a year, it'll allow Game Freak to spend more time to actually develop their new titles while still releasing and selling stuff.
No it doesn't and awful animations are still evident here. Pokemon-Amie 2 and Pokemon-Amie wasn't fun either. People find fun in Sonic 06 but it doesn't make it good and some semi charming pokemon interaction is mediocre at best and stuff like this is apparently VITAL but 500 pokemon being cut is fine to GF.