Diablo IV announced

Fugu · Nov 2, 2019

Fularu said:
Citation needed

And it'S a very vocal small mindset that keeps harping the "D2 is better than D3" narrative

Especially since D3 outsold D2 3 to 1

[citation needed]

Sales figures between two games released twelve years apart (when the PC was a much smaller platform that commanded a price tag that was prohibitively expensive for a lot of people) don't tell you anything about the relative popularity and impact of those games.

Besides, it's arguable that Diablo 3's sales are on the back of its predecessor's clout anyway since the game was so thoroughly torched upon release. Diablo 3 owes much of its success to its predecessor.

Dahbomb · Nov 2, 2019

Fredo said:
Maybe I misunderstood what they are doing with the skill points. If you can grind them and still max out all of those you want then it actually sounds okay.

Being able to max out a few skills that are pertinent to your build = Good
Being able to max out every single skill you have access to = Bad

The latter is bad because then there are no actual builds. Well no builds that are dependent on skill points and it's entirely down to items, which is what D3 devolved into (ie. builds were based around certain sets that buffed up certain skills).

Tovarisc · Nov 2, 2019

Jeroen said:
Lead dev looks like he's in his 20's. We need a Diablo 2 neckbeard designing a Diablo game not these soyboys.

Game director

Lead designer

Just how old looking 20 year olds are at your neck of woods?

JahIthBer · Nov 2, 2019

Tovarisc said:
Game director

Lead designer

Just how old looking 20 year olds are at your neck of woods?

Look at these zoomers. smh.

valeo · Nov 2, 2019

I remember how hyped I was for the D3 announcement and, seeing the gameplay for D4, I have 0 hype for this. It looks like they've taken D3 and just edited it based on the criticism that was received at D3's release. That is just really boring game design.

Trickster · Nov 2, 2019

Fularu said:
Citation needed

And it'S a very vocal small mindset that keeps harping the "D2 is better than D3" narrative

Especially since D3 outsold D2 3 to 1

Citation needed

Using unit sales like you did here also shows a pretty huge lack of understanding on your part about those numbers. One released more than a decade before the other, in a much smaller market and on only one platform. The other one released on multiple platforms in a much bigger market, and as a sequel to one of the most iconic games of all time.

Tovarisc · Nov 2, 2019

valeo said:
I remember how hyped I was for the D3 announcement and, seeing the gameplay for D4, I have 0 hype for this. It looks like they've taken D3 and just edited it based on the criticism that was received at D3's release. That is just really boring game design.

People with hands on have said that this demo and gameplay is doing a lot callbacks to D2 gameplay too.

7thFloor · Nov 2, 2019

Tovarisc said:
People with hands on have said that this demo and gameplay is doing a lot callbacks to D2 gameplay too.

You shouldn't need to play the demo for that to be clear, they've made it so obvious.

Trickster · Nov 2, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
You shouldn't need to play the demo for that to be clear, they've made it so obvious.

How is it obvious? The stats, items, and combat looks much closer to D3 than D2

Dahbomb · Nov 2, 2019

There are callbacks to D2 yeah. Some of the skills operate similar to D2 like fireball having decent AOE. But the combat flow and pace is still more like D3 due to cooldowns and resource system.

7thFloor · Nov 2, 2019

Trickster said:
How is it obvious? The stats, items, and combat looks much closer to D3 than D2

Well what about the classes, skills, runes, and consumable potions (not exactly the same but still clearly a throwback).

Decado · Nov 2, 2019

Semi-Open world? How is that going to work?

Oticon · Nov 2, 2019

Fularu said:
Citation needed

And it'S a very vocal small mindset that keeps harping the "D2 is better than D3" narrative

Especially since D3 outsold D2 3 to 1

D3 sold on the back of the goodwill built on D2. D3 vanilla was straight garbage, I would say the game was garbage until RoS came out and even then it never reached the heights of D2.

Doober · Nov 2, 2019

Dahbomb said:
The latter is bad because then there are no actual builds. Well no builds that are dependent on skill points and it's entirely down to items, which is what D3 devolved into (ie. builds were based around certain sets that buffed up certain skills).

I really hope 4 isn't like this. Not only did it take away the ability to build off of certain skills but it made weapons nothing more than damage modifiers for your skills.

That's how you'd end up with barbs wielding daggers or staves or your wizard with a maul.

Honestly I hope 4 does something to make different types of weapons actually work and FEEL different.

valeo · Nov 2, 2019

I don't want them to re-make D2 or D3. We have those games already. I played D2 for about 10 years. Just really strange that they're still relying on nostalgia for the 4th iteration, rather than pushing it forward at all.

Personally, I think anyone who thinks D2 *plays* better are a little insane. D3 skills are far funner to use, though the structure of the skill tree can be debated.

Trickster · Nov 2, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
Well what about the classes, skills, runes, and consumable potions (not exactly the same but still clearly a throwback).

Having the same classes with a lot of the same skills that they had in D2 doesn't really mean that they play anything like their D2 versions.
The runes in D4 look to work completely different from their D2 versions.
Potions also work completely different from D2. Yeah okay now you consume them, but the actual functionality in practical terms is still 1 potion on a cooldown just like in D3.

You say it yourself, it's basically just throwbacks. It's not a meaningful return to the systems of D2, or how it plays

Tovarisc · Nov 2, 2019

Decado said:
Semi-Open world? How is that going to work?

Overall world is one unified open world (with some level gating) with instanced dungeons and story areas. Open world will have world bosses and events in which you can see other players. Entering towns and cities will be Path of Exiles experience in a way that you will see other players.

Oticon · Nov 2, 2019

valeo said:
I don't want them to re-make D2 or D3. We have those games already. I played D2 for about 10 years. Just really strange that they're still relying on nostalgia for the 4th iteration, rather than pushing it forward at all.

Personally, I think anyone who thinks D2 *plays* better are a little insane. D3 skills are far funner to use, though the structure of the skill tree can be debated.

D3 gameplay is probably best in class in the isometric ARPG space but the actual backbone of gearing/skills and character progression systems are ass.

7thFloor · Nov 2, 2019

Trickster said:
Having the same classes with a lot of the same skills that they had in D2 doesn't really mean that they play anything like their D2 versions.
The runes in D4 look to work completely different from their D2 versions.
Potions also work completely different from D2. Yeah okay now you consume them, but the actual functionality in practical terms is still 1 potion on a cooldown just like in D3.

You say it yourself, it's basically just throwbacks. It's not a meaningful return to the systems of D2, or how it plays

Well it would be difficult to say without playing it but they're clearly referencing D2 and that's all I was implying.

Trickster · Nov 2, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
Well it would be difficult to say without playing it but they're clearly referencing D2 and that's all I was implying.

Sure I guess. I guess I just don't see the point of referencing D2 if they're still just gonna make it play like D3

7thFloor · Nov 2, 2019

Trickster said:
Sure I guess. I guess I just don't see the point of referencing D2 if they're still just gonna make it play like D3

Clearly it borrows elements of D3 & D2 so I don't know why you think it's going to play strictly like D3 instead of a combination of the two.

Trickster · Nov 2, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
Clearly it borrows elements of D3 & D2 so I don't know why you think it's going to play strictly like D3 instead of a combination of the two.

Because in terms of the things that actually affect how the game plays, it looks to take very little from D2, and a lot from D3

7thFloor · Nov 2, 2019

Trickster said:
Because in terms of the things that actually affect how the game plays, it looks to take very little from D2, and a lot from D3

I disagree.

Deleted member 31817 · Nov 2, 2019

Since the cube is coming back I really really hope they put a little icon on items whose power you already extracted from

Gets so annoying when you dont know if you already have

Troast · Nov 2, 2019

Disappointed thought the gameplay would be more like d2 and its d3.5 instead.

Deleted member 31817 · Nov 2, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
I disagree.

How so? It also looks like it plays a lot more like D3 than D2 to me as well. They made the art style more akin to D2 and then either implemented very basic changes to get it to be D2-ish or just simplified the stuff even more from D3.

Trickster · Nov 2, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
I disagree.

Edit - removed original post as it was unwarranted in it's tone

7thFloor · Nov 2, 2019

Trickster said:
I can see why you'd be of the opinion if stuff like the runes and potion system feels like D2 to you, even though in practical terms they're absolutely nothing like their d2 counterparts

I understand that they're different. Of course they're different. D4 doesn't look like D2 and it also doesn't really look like D3, it looks like a new Diablo game, that's my opinion. I really don't appreciate the condescension.

Shadout · Nov 3, 2019

Oticon said:
D3 gameplay is probably best in class in the isometric ARPG space but the actual backbone of gearing/skills and character progression systems are ass.

Yeah, exactly this.
Well, ass might be a bit strong, there are decent aspects to it, but at least extremely flawed.

Honestly though, there is little reason to copy Diablo 2 in Diablo 4. Diablo 2 is likewise a flawed game, it does pretty much nothing that havent been done better today. What it did, and which is still true, is having a fairly high quality in all aspects of the game. But it is also beaten in all those aspects by other games (sadly, never by the same games in all aspects). Those games would be much better for Blizzard to learn from.

Trickster · Nov 3, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
I understand that they're different. Of course they're different. D4 doesn't look like D2 and it also doesn't really look like D3, it looks like a new game, that's my opinion. I really don't appreciate the condescension.

I've removed my previous post as I will admit it was not warranted. While not in the exact same way, my opinion is similar to what you express here.

Anyway it's probably best if I just stop posting for now and get some sleep instead of debating D4 stuff at 5.30 am

7thFloor · Nov 3, 2019

Trickster said:
I've removed my previous post as I will admit it was not warranted. While not in the exact same way, my opinion is similar to what you express here.

Anyway it's probably best if I just stop posting for now and get some sleep instead of debating D4 stuff at 5.30 am

It's cool

Protoman200X · Nov 3, 2019

Tovarisc said:
Game director

Lead designer

Just how old looking 20 year olds are at your neck of woods?

Good lord, that beard is amazing.

Fall Damage · Nov 3, 2019

I'm not sure I like the new direction they're taking runes/runewords. If I heard correctly the plan is to only be able to chain two runes (activator/effect) together?

The runewords in D2 were one of my favorite systems in the game because they were a long term goal you had to work toward pretty much the entire time you played. If you didn't dupe you always needed more high runes. There was no bigger payoff than completing a really rare runeword you had been hunting for.

I want to see longer, more difficult to complete chains with a bigger payoff. I also hope runes will be able to be combined (cubed) and that there will still be ultra rare drops like vex, ber, zod.

7thFloor · Nov 3, 2019

Matthew23 said:
I'm not sure I like the new direction they're taking runes/runewords. If I heard correctly the plan is to only be able to chain two runes (activator/effect) together?

The runewords in D2 were one of my favorite systems in the game because they were a long term goal you had to work toward pretty much the entire time you played. If you didn't dupe you always needed more high runes. There was no bigger payoff than completing a really rare runeword you had been hunting for.

I want to see longer, more difficult to complete chains with a bigger payoff. I also hope runes will be able to be combined (cubed) and that there will still be ultra rare drops like vex, ber, zod.

I agree, hope they change that.

Fall Damage · Nov 3, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
I agree, hope they change that.

I'm going to go overboard with my feedback posts on the blizzard forums ;)

7thFloor · Nov 3, 2019

Matthew23 said:
I'm going to go overboard with my feedback posts on the blizzard forums ;)

Please do that :)

Shadout · Nov 3, 2019

Matthew23 said:
I'm not sure I like the new direction they're taking runes/runewords. If I heard correctly the plan is to only be able to chain two runes (activator/effect) together?

I have not seen them mention that limit anywhere. In the demo you seemingly cant have more than two sockets, but having fewer sockets available at low lvl would hardly be surprising.

7thFloor · Nov 3, 2019

Shadout said:
I have not seen them mention that limit anywhere. In the demo you seemingly cant have more than two sockets, but having fewer sockets available at low lvl would hardly be surprising.

In the systems & features panel they said there were only two types of rune words.

Kitsunelaine · Nov 3, 2019

I really, really hope they just haven't designed the lady barbarian and druid (and male sorc) yet. It would be sucky if we go back to gender locking classes. Probably means I wouldn't check out the classes assigned to dudes.

Shadout · Nov 3, 2019

HoLoGrApHiC_principle said:
In the systems & features panel they said there were only two types of rune words.

Ah, i misunderstood what you meant then.
I was thinking if chaining more of those two rune types together. Like 1 activator and 3 effects etc.

Sargerus · Nov 3, 2019

They are saving Tristam for an expansion i see.

7thFloor · Nov 3, 2019

Shadout said:
Ah, i misunderstood what you meant then.
I was thinking if chaining more of those two rune types together. Like 1 activator and 3 effects etc.

I'm not entirely sure if they're going to allow you to do that but it sounds like they're really not sure anyway.

Dark_Castle · Nov 3, 2019

diablogg said:
Watching that 45 min stream thing, dungeon keys are absolutely just PoE maps

Kind of. In PoE, maps are consumables but for D4, dungeons are always there in the overworld, existing as part of the landscape, you use the keys to upgrade them and turn them into harder versions with unique mechanics. However maps in PoE are not strictly dungeons, at least in terms of layouts. Some are in-door, many are outdoor, some are mixed. There's a lot of variety. No idea what kinda dungeons will there be in D4, if they are all traditional dungeon that are in-doors.

But I kinda like that actually. I don't like rifts and greater rifts because they are so random in layout and monster types and the boss, it makes for fishing and rng too much. To be able to build around characters for specific kind of dungeon and turn them into super dungeon with unique mechanics which you can tailor your build around, now that's cool idea. They just need to ensure each dungeon aren't completely randomized with different monsters and stuff.

Wracu · Nov 3, 2019

Kitsunelaine said:
I really, really hope they just haven't designed the lady barbarian and druid (and male sorc) yet. It would be sucky if we go back to gender locking classes. Probably means I wouldn't check out the classes assigned to dudes.

???

Female Barbarian is playable at Blizzcon and they confirmed male Sorcerer. I'm sure there will be male/female of all the classes at release.

Cloud-Strife · Nov 3, 2019

I hate gender locked characters.. that's the only thing I hate from Lost Ark.

Fall Damage · Nov 3, 2019

Shadout said:
Ah, i misunderstood what you meant then.
I was thinking if chaining more of those two rune types together. Like 1 activator and 3 effects etc.

At 51:45 in the Rhykker twitch stream where he is interviewing the dev he specifically asks about the largest chain of runes to which the dev responds 2. The dev then goes on to say it's still being discussed.

GFP_RYU · Nov 3, 2019

So no offline mode even on consoles, correct?

7thFloor · Nov 3, 2019

Matthew23 said:
The dev then goes on to say it's still being discussed.

Well that's good to hear at least

Kripparrian made a video that summarizes his impressions if anyone is interested:

Kitsunelaine · Nov 3, 2019

Wracu said:
???

Female Barbarian is playable at Blizzcon and they confirmed male Sorcerer. I'm sure there will be male/female of all the classes at release.

Oh cool. Wasn't aware of that news.

diablogg · Nov 3, 2019

Matthew23 said:
I'm not sure I like the new direction they're taking runes/runewords. If I heard correctly the plan is to only be able to chain two runes (activator/effect) together?

The runewords in D2 were one of my favorite systems in the game because they were a long term goal you had to work toward pretty much the entire time you played. If you didn't dupe you always needed more high runes. There was no bigger payoff than completing a really rare runeword you had been hunting for.

I want to see longer, more difficult to complete chains with a bigger payoff. I also hope runes will be able to be combined (cubed) and that there will still be ultra rare drops like vex, ber, zod.

I actually didn't like runewords in Diablo 2. As far as I understood it, all the crazy runewords were put into the game to combat duping (a problem I guess they couldn't fully solve?) Even if that isn't true, I ask what was the function of a runeword? It was to allow you to do builds and use skills you wouldn't normally be able to. I personally believe that should be the function of Unique items. Unique (legendary?) items should allow you to do something unique. Path of Exile largely went with this and I think it worked out really well.

Diablo IV announced

Community Resettler

Community Resettler

Deleted member 31817

Deleted member 31817

Self-requested ban

▲ Legend ▲

Alt-Account

Self-requested ban