• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

Diablo IV announced

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,019
I was about to say I think they mentioned you can play solo until everything is complete in an area. Personally, I'll be playing co-op most of the time with a buddy. Had a lot of fun with D3 that way.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,964
As pleased as I am with D4 so far, I'm still really hungry for a D2 remaster...maybe next Blizzcon as an appetizer before D4 releases.
It seems like War3 Reforged is taking longer than expected (I know, it's Blizzard) so the classic team is probably still tied up with that. I agree that a D2 remaster coming out a year or two before D4 would be a great idea.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,518
The leaked info which turned out mostly right said that they had cancelled the D2 remaster. D4 is so linked to it in terms of theme and setting that they would be occupying the same space.
 

Ont

Member
Oct 29, 2017
52
Where is it stated that D4 is reliant on cloud computing? I also disagree that this will be the norm in the future. Why would a single player story driven game need to be always online?
Other than running on Battle.net servers, I did not mean that D4 would leverage cloud computing in other ways. The first Titanfall game was a good demonstration of that technology. And I think it will become standard with the next console generation.

I don't think you can call D4 a singleplayer game, the open world part of the game seems to be multiplayer, even if you choose to ignore other players.
 
Last edited:

Skab

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
Icy-Veins has a pretty good summary of everything we know

 

DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
1,156
I hope they add combos like imagine the druid's boulder going through the sorceror's blizzard gathering snow and ice to become bigger hitting a larger area, or the sorc being able to hit it with a fireball and making it a molten lava ball doing more dmg in a smaller area. Just one example.
 

Qvoth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,498
Icy-Veins has a pretty good summary of everything we know

got some new info i didn't know, thx for the link
 

Retroarnold

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,558
Other than running on Battle.net servers, I did not mean that D4 would leverage cloud computing in other ways. The first Titanfall game was a good demonstration of that technology. And I think it will become standard with the next console generation.

I don't think you can call D4 a singleplayer game, the open world part of the game seems to be multiplayer, even if you choose to ignore other players.
Disagree

I didn't play the first Titanfall, but I wouldn't really call this a good example considering the sequel dropped it. I can't actually think of another game that did take advantage of cloud computing this gen?! Crackdown was going to, but I believe that was dropped right?

Either way, I'm yet to see evidence that games will make more use of cloud computing in the upcoming generation and it'll become standard.

D4 is definitely not a single player game anymore, which is why I'm disappointed with it.
 

Yoshi88

Member
Oct 26, 2017
314
Icy-Veins has a pretty good summary of everything we know

Great summary, thanks for the link.

Only two basestats instead of Dex, Int etc. is food for concern though, isn't it? Seems to make gems have way less use, too (only utility stats).
 

Yoshi88

Member
Oct 26, 2017
314
personally I like the idea. As it is in Diablo 3 the diversity of stats is just an annoyance in inventory management rather than an enjoyable gearing challenge.
Granted, i thought more of how it removes a bit of personality of each class. Making intelligence the core stat for a sorceress etc. I liked that each class got a special bonus from one of the stats that corresponded with their class role, while everyone else got the "classic" bonus from the stat.
 

TatteredHat

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,087
personally I like the idea. As it is in Diablo 3 the diversity of stats is just an annoyance in inventory management rather than an enjoyable gearing challenge.
Sure, but that's only because in Diablo 3 str/dex/int all do the exact same thing and at that point it might as well be one stat. They'd need to take one more step back and give those stats some meaning.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
Sure, but that's only because in Diablo 3 str/dex/int all do the exact same thing and at that point it might as well be one stat. They'd need to take one more step back and give those stats some meaning.
Remember when dex only increased dodge but then they changed it to work exactly like str because pure damage mitigation is better than a random chance to dodge incoming attacks when monsters can deal thousands of damage at higher difficulties?

Blizzard has no clue how to design RPG systems with scaling difficulties.
 

XandBosch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
Tbh I think if Diablo 2 remastered came out a year before Diablo 4, they'd be sending 4 out to die lol.

I kind of think D2 remastered doesn't exist, especially after Brevik's comments about how doing it would be near impossible.

To be on topic, the itemization stuff they've discussed so far isn't all that pleasing to me. Why are they so against trading? That was a HUGE part of what made Diablo 2 fun.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,964
Icy-Veins has a pretty good summary of everything we know

Man, I'm so conflicted on this. Some stuff sounds like it really be a lot of fun/has a solid core design (class mechanics in general, key dungeons, world bosses, legendary affixes) but other stuff is definitely giving me pause. It really seems like outside of legendary abilities, gearing is going to be super basic. Attack and Defense being the only meaningful stats, gems only being for utlity, runewords being simple 2-affix cause and effect system are all not great. And skills being absolutely not respeccable seems like the kind of decision that only exists to appease a certain subset of player rather than actually being good game design. I mean even PoE has the ability to respec and it's generally thought of as the "most diablo" of the existing ARPG's.
 

TatteredHat

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,087
Remember when dex only increased dodge but then they changed it to work exactly like str because pure damage mitigation is better than a random chance to dodge incoming attacks when monsters can deal thousands of damage at higher difficulties?

Blizzard has no clue how to design RPG systems with scaling difficulties.
I saw a great vid talking about the pitfalls of designing the game built around scaling/infinite difficulty, as it stands Blizzard is at risk of running into all the same issues as in D3. 0 power actually present in your character and all of it just coming from infinitely scaling attack/def stats on gear.
 

Corsick

Member
Oct 27, 2017
262
I saw a great vid talking about the pitfalls of designing the game built around scaling/infinite difficulty, as it stands Blizzard is at risk of running into all the same issues as in D3. 0 power actually present in your character and all of it just coming from infinitely scaling attack/def stats on gear.
Basically nothing means anything because there's infinite scaling and little meaningful choice to be had.
 

Darkstorne

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,015
England
Finally tried out Path of Exile today, and oh my goodness, the class customization is beyond beautiful. That passive tree!

It's not doing anything to help my D4 concerns. Weak itemization, weak visuals (especially if this isn't launching until well into next gen), and now I've seen the light with skill trees... D4 looks miserably weak in this regard too. Have Blizz not looked at the competition? Have they not thought about the visual standards of the time they'll be releasing in? They're getting so much right with the tone of the game, but so much wrong with everything else =( I hope they use the time they have to improve their efforts in these regards, and ideally move the genre forwards rather than just playing catch-up (proper character creator for example).
 

Skab

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
Man, I'm so conflicted on this. Some stuff sounds like it really be a lot of fun/has a solid core design (class mechanics in general, key dungeons, world bosses, legendary affixes) but other stuff is definitely giving me pause. It really seems like outside of legendary abilities, gearing is going to be super basic. Attack and Defense being the only meaningful stats, gems only being for utlity, runewords being simple 2-affix cause and effect system are all not great. And skills being absolutely not respeccable seems like the kind of decision that only exists to appease a certain subset of player rather than actually being good game design. I mean even PoE has the ability to respec and it's generally thought of as the "most diablo" of the existing ARPG's.
Yeah I’m in the same boat. A lot sounds good, but the itemization and stats have got to change. They do seem to be actively requesting feed back though, and the biggest outcry so far has been about those two things, so I’m hopeful things will change.

D3 changed quite a lot during its development, so there’s reason to believe D4 will do the same.
 

KKRT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
939
I kind of think D2 remastered doesn't exist, especially after Brevik's comments about how doing it would be near impossible.
As much as i like Brevik, his comments were pretty hyperbolistic.
We have Diablo2 HD mod for years that works fine, its called MultiRes. So if modders could hack it, then Blizzard would do it without any problems:



 

DeepChord

Member
Jan 21, 2018
661
Let's be honest, all of the problems concerning itemization, skills and talents are due to the game being developed with consoles in mind. Anyone who got deep into PoE on Xbox knows what a hassle deep customization options are on console controls.

That being said, I put a lot of hours into D3 in PS4 and Switch and I loved the Baldurs Gate ARPG on PS2 back in the days. But my love for D2 is even greater.
 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,377
As much as i like Brevik, his comments were pretty hyperbolistic.
We have Diablo2 HD mod for years that works fine, its called MultiRes. So if modders could hack it, then Blizzard would do it without any problems:

There's a difference between uprezzing the game like an unofficial mod does and remastering the game in a way that seemingly will likely overhaul the game in a similar fashion to how Reforge basically reworked every asset of the game.

The problem here is that War3 ran on a 3D engine so updating the assets was a simpler task. Doing the same for diablo 2, assuming that's the route they want to take, would be far more difficult given that the engine is extremely dated. Perhaps they want remaster it in a way that mirrors how Obsidian made Pillars of Eternity and rebuild the environments in 3D? we don't know the full extent as to how they want to approach this remaster. If it was as simple as an HD Upres, they'd have released it by now IMO.
 

theMrCravens

Member
Oct 25, 2017
449
While the D4 announcement was exactly what I wanted out of Blizzard, every media and info we're looking at will change like crazy in a mere year.

Pretty pointless to analyze and watch all these in great detail right now.
 

XandBosch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
As much as i like Brevik, his comments were pretty hyperbolistic.
We have Diablo2 HD mod for years that works fine, its called MultiRes. So if modders could hack it, then Blizzard would do it without any problems:



I mean the dude in the video is teleporting too fast for it to be noticeable, but wasn't his point that because the game was developed with a certain resolution in mind, things wouldn't function properly if the game was just "upres'd"? Like you'd be able to see enemies on screen just standing there waiting for you to get closer because in the old version they were off-screen? Does that happen with this mod?
 

KKRT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
939
I mean the dude in the video is teleporting too fast for it to be noticeable, but wasn't his point that because the game was developed with a certain resolution in mind, things wouldn't function properly if the game was just "upres'd"? Like you'd be able to see enemies on screen just standing there waiting for you to get closer because in the old version they were off-screen? Does that happen with this mod?
It does happen sometimes yes, but this would be tweakable with source code. Also still not a big issue as you can see in the gameplay or other gameplays.
I actually played MultiRes version and havent noticed any problem with AI or that could cheese them off screen.

--
There's a difference between uprezzing the game like an unofficial mod does and remastering the game in a way that seemingly will likely overhaul the game in a similar fashion to how Reforge basically reworked every asset of the game.

The problem here is that War3 ran on a 3D engine so updating the assets was a simpler task. Doing the same for diablo 2, assuming that's the route they want to take, would be far more difficult given that the engine is extremely dated. Perhaps they want remaster it in a way that mirrors how Obsidian made Pillars of Eternity and rebuild the environments in 3D? we don't know the full extent as to how they want to approach this remaster. If it was as simple as an HD Upres, they'd have released it by now IMO.
I dont think they would go Pillars of Eternity route. It would be rather in vein of their Starcraft 1 HD remaster.
 
Last edited:

XandBosch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
It does happen sometimes yes, but this would be tweakable with source code. Also still not a big issue as you can see in the gameplay or other gameplays.
I actually played w MultiRes version and havent noticed any problem with AI or that could cheese them off screen.
Right on. Maybe that was Brevik being a perfectionist - but yeah, he made it sound like the game would be unplayable because of it. Unless there was more to what he was saying and I just didn't really understand it, I'm not a computer wiz so..

I do wonder if a D2 remaster is on the backburner now though. I honestly think that Blizzard knows putting out a new and improved D2 would basically make D4 null and void (especially if a D2 remaster was also ported to consoles...somehow), and I think with them making strides to try and make D4 more like D2 to appease those fans, they won't be doing the remaster like we thought they would be. I could be wrong about that though, maybe enough people are ready for D4 and have just played D2 to death (I know that's how it is with me - every now and then I'll install it and have the urge to dive back in, but as soon as I do, I realize there's no going back, and I've pretty much seen all there is to see).

Who knows though, I hope I'm wrong.
 

DrewFu

Member
Apr 19, 2018
6,913
Is there any word on what the other two classes are? Hopefully one is a paladin/crusader.
 
Jun 14, 2019
563
I dunno i think streamlining things isn't to bad stat points have been hugely redundant in alot of arpg when its class restricted. Intelligence is redundant as a warrior pretty much 9 time out of 10 etc n vice versa.
 

Trickster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,983
Let's be honest, all of the problems concerning itemization, skills and talents are due to the game being developed with consoles in mind. Anyone who got deep into PoE on Xbox knows what a hassle deep customization options are on console controls.

That being said, I put a lot of hours into D3 in PS4 and Switch and I loved the Baldurs Gate ARPG on PS2 back in the days. But my love for D2 is even greater.
PoE is an extreme case among ARPG's. I sincerely doubt most of us expressing concerns over some of the things in D4 so far, expect or even want it to be as complex and convoluted as PoE. Extreme complexity isn't what many of us want. D2 wasn't nearly as complex as PoE, and it's stood the test of time for 20 years at this point, with people still playing it. That's not because it's full of crazy deep and convoluted game systems. It's just because it's an extremely well designed ARPG.


It sucks this game is maybe 4 years away at best, maybe more at worst.
There's absolutely zero way Activision lets Blizzard work on this game for more than another 2 years. I would be shocked if this game isn't out before blizzcon 2021
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,964
It sucks this game is maybe 4 years away at best, maybe more at worst.
4 is a stretch. I'm guessing 2021-2022.

I dunno i think streamlining things isn't to bad stat points have been hugely redundant in alot of arpg when its class restricted. Intelligence is redundant as a warrior pretty much 9 time out of 10 etc n vice versa.
Streamlining isn't inherently bad, but at the moment D4 does look to be going a bit too far in that direction. There's definitely a decent sized middle ground between being paralyzed because you have to keep track of 50 stats, and having nothing that really matters besides item level. The way it is now, it looks like there's really nothing to concern yourself with at all beyond legendary affixes. And while those might be super cool, it still looks shallower than people were expecting.
 

SmAsH

Member
Oct 25, 2017
122
There's absolutely zero way Activision lets Blizzard work on this game for more than another 2 years. I would be shocked if this game isn't out before blizzcon 2021
I think it'll be out by or in 2022 at the latest.
4 is a stretch. I'm guessing 2021-2022.
I hope you guys are right. I honestly do, this looks like the D2 I remember. Hopefully they don't mess it up.

Only thing that scares me is that they are apparently streamlining the numbers to be more basic? So only attack and defense numbers matter, instead of the other more in-depth options we've had.

Blizzard said:
When it comes to combat statistics, we’ve simplified the math problem. Players should spend more time thinking about stats that change how they play rather than solving arithmetic. Attack and Defense will be your bread and butter; one stat for increasing your damage, and one stat for decreasing damage taken.
Source: https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/23189677
 
Last edited:

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
There have been very complex games made on consoles as well. That excuse doesn't really fly.

And people aren't asking for PoE level of complexity either.

Here are a few things that I feel like should be addressed that doesn't seem to be addressed in D3 well enough:

*There being support for hit based builds and damage over time builds and for them to not scale off of the same stats.

*Elemental afflictions being an actual thing and something you can build around. I want to be able to burn enemies as a build, chill/freeze enemies or paralyze them. This could open up new builds and even certain support builds.

*There being strong support for non crit builds as high DPS options. We shouldn't be forced into crit to do max DPS it should be a player choice.

*Allow utility for Rare items in builds as well. Rare items should have better and more customizable stats than unique (like I can get Vitality, generic damage and resistances on Rare but I can't get all these states on Legendaries as they are more specialized). Rare items can be defensive oriented while Legendaries can be offensive. Maybe provide high variance in Rare so that a very rare combination of Rare rolls can result in an insane item.

*Have legendaries/items/talents that have a huge plus side with a big downside that changes up a playstyle. Stuff like you lose 25% of your armor but you gain 25% chance to dodge... stuff like that. These elements create radically different builds.


This isn't asking for much as it's something a lot of games do already. I am not even asking for stuff like elemental conversion (IMO this takes away from the identity of a skill and its element even though it results in more permutations of builds) just standard stuff that other games have sold already.
 

DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
1,156
They need to suck it up and realize that the land mass they showed us was too large to get this game out in a timely fashion. Give us half of that much space at launch and then work on some expansions to get the rest. Make it F2P with microtransactions similar to PoE. I just want to play this by May 2021 or so. Blizzard pls
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
*Elemental afflictions being an actual thing and something you can build around. I want to be able to burn enemies as a build, chill/freeze enemies or paralyze them. This could open up new builds and even certain support builds.
Wizards had this option with the CM permafreeze build but then they nerfed it because it was deemed 'broken.'

So I wouldn't get your hopes up with D4. Everything will be DPS focused and that's it.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
Wizards had this option with the CM permafreeze build but then they nerfed it because it was deemed 'broken.'

So I wouldn't get your hopes up with D4. Everything will be DPS focused and that's it.
That was before they implemented the CC avoidance build up on mobs which would have made this build a lot weaker anyway. So they should now be open to it especially when RoS has Monks non stop cycling in enemies.

Though now instead they have put the Unbreakable mod in instead to counter CCs.
 

Skab

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,236
Soooo they had concept art for a new bow using class at blizzcon.


 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,377
I dont think they would go Pillars of Eternity route. It would be rather in vein of their Starcraft 1 HD remaster.
Yah, you could assume that, but IMO, Diablo 2: remaster has been a worst kept secret for years now. If they went a route similar to Starcraft 1 Remaster, I feel like they'd have released this by now. I think they are planning something completely different for this remaster.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,518
Yah, you could assume that, but IMO, Diablo 2: remaster has been a worst kept secret for years now. If they went a route similar to Starcraft 1 Remaster, I feel like they'd have released this by now. I think they are planning something completely different for this remaster.
There isn’t going to be a remaster. The same leaks that were on point for D4 also said the idea of remastering D2 has been dropped because it's in the same space as D4. Same was being heard on the rumour and gossip mill at Blizzcon.