DICE's Live Service Director: Launching a game with too much gameplay content splits the playerbase

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https://www.vg247.com/2018/11/08/battlefield-5-battle-royale-mode-not-at-launch/

Has this been posted yet? This is very discussion-worthy in my opinion. I'm not even saying he is wrong.

Battlefield 5 is about to release, but it is holding some stuff back for 2019.

One of the things that isn't arriving at launch is Firestorm, a new battle royale mode developed in partnership with Criterion. That's coming in March 2019.

I recently got chance to talk to DICE about the decision to hold it back and whether or not the mode was an afterthought, reacting to trends as the game was in development. Apparently, this isn't the case. The developer was just worried about overwhelming us.

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"We want to make sure that each introduction of new gameplay is able to stand on its own and is able to stand out from everything else in a way that makes players want to focus on it."

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The idea is to drip feed this content in, because – according to DICE – putting it all in the game at once has the same effect as paid expansions do.

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"Players have things to look forward to and they can spend time with each mode. Otherwise you have a similar thing like with expansions where the playerbase gets fragmented. It sucks all the oxygen out of the room if you put to much in."

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I've always said Call of Duty should reduce its crazy amount of game modes to prevent playerbase fragmentation. From what I've heard this has been a problem for CoD on PC for years, where for certain modes you just can't find active games because nobody plays them, even at release. Obviously this is the guy's answer when asked why Battlefield 5 Battle Royale won't be available at launch, but I think there is some truth here.

The interview has some really interesting points, I highly recommend reading it.

Btw: The DICE person's full title is "Live Service Development Director" but I had to shorten it a bit for the title because, you know, too much content.

 

[Lashley]

Quality > Quantity.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

This is only because local multiplayer was killed for not producing as much money.

 

[jobiasRKD]

I mean, yeah. He's not wrong at all. That's the entire rationale behind Fortnite and League of Legends having rotating game modes too. It keeps the player base more or less cohesive by having them move to and from permanent game modes and new ones. For BFV, they want the foundations of the game's culture to revolve around a specific game mode (ie. Conquest) and then they can temporarily rotate in new ones to keep things fresh and simultaneously prevent Conquest from feeling stale without permanently lowering its playerbase.

 

[Parenegade]

I mean of course it does. Obviously.

 

[Scuffed]

It's good to release unfinished games. It's what the consumers need to get the best experience LOL!

 

[Deleted member 11093]

One of the best things about Rainbow Six Siege is how it has only 3 game modes in casual and ranked, rather than split the playerbase hy allowing them to matchmake hostage, secure and bomb separately.

It's good to release unfinished games. It's what the consumers need to get the best experience LOL!

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Not what he meant. Most game modes in the Battlefield games aside from Conquest (and now Operations) tend to be pretty dead.

 

[Scuffed]

Not what he meant. Most game modes in the Battlefield games aside from Conquest (and now Operations) tend to be pretty dead.

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Then cut the mode or change the mode. Don't hold back maps or content for good modes to funnel people into bad modes it won't work. People will just play the most popular modes and then get pissed that that mode doesn't have more content.

 

[JigglesBunny]

That explains quite a lot about Battlefield V. I'm a die hard franchise fan and have been since 1942 but there's not a lot of meat on the bone here.

 

[OMEGALUL]

So what am I paying 60/120/or whatever bucks for, or getting punished by the game on release instead of 10 days earlier? To sustain greedy developers and Publishers like Dice and EA? fuck them.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Completely and utterly agree with him

Quality over quantity

Hell, towards the end of BF1s life, you couldn't find a dedicated Rush match to save your life. Everyone would just default to conquest as DICE themselves sort of led players to it with the UI updates

 

[Soap]

I think I agree. Too many modes leads to a smaller playerbase across all of them.

 

[WellbornWarrior]

Theres a difference between game modes and content and while there is merit in having fewer modes to not split the playerbase, there is absolutely no reason to intentionally launch with less content than what would be reasonably possible.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Not what he meant. Most game modes in the Battlefield games aside from Conquest (and now Operations) tend to be pretty dead.

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Seriously

Its a huge problem

I mean, go back and look how many different options there are to select with something like BF4 at the end of its life. Its a mess

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

This is likely only a problem for content/modes that just aren't as fun.

Focus on making quality content for every mode and every one will have a sizeable enough player pool that players won't be hurting for players to play against.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

I imagine this is going to get eviscerated, but I agree with him. If you want proof of that you only need to look at the other recent Battlefield launches, which had a bunch of modes that basically no one played. They were fun modes to, but it was almost too much choice at 1 so everyone goes to TDM, Conquest, Rush, or last time around you had Operations which was the Exotic new experiment. Last I checked only Conquest and Operations had regular play in BF1.

Rolling stuff out to make sure it's all quality and can be introduced to the playerbase make sense to see if the adoption rate is higher.

 

[sleepnaught]

Then keep Conquest and Operations, cut the rest. Give us more maps and more than only two damn factions. Not having the Soviet Union at least is just pathetic.

 

[Nome]

He's wrong.
With most titles, launch is when you're going to hit your CCU peak, and CCU is what matters to keep your different modes alive.
Unless they're planning on stripping away modes as they add them, then what he's saying has no truth to it.

 

[Thrill_house]

"We have figured out we can release games with less content and people are fucking dumb enough to fall for it."

 

[Khanimus]

Streamline your modes and diversify down the line. Overwatch did well with this.

 

[Scuffed]

Quality over quantity

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That is an excellent point of view but it in no way describes BFV.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

He's wrong.
With most titles, launch is when you're going to hit your CCU peak, and CCU is what matters to keep your different modes alive.
Unless they're planning on stripping away modes as they add them, then what he's saying has no truth to it.

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They may start rotating modes. I'm sure they know they're going to get a huge peak of interest when Firestorm releases. They seem to be following models of other games though, release a solid base and then change things up when it catches on and becomes a huge hit. Whether it will catch on and become a huge hit beyond the typical Peak for a year or two and then sharp player base decline Battlefield seems prone to is unclear.

It may ultimately turn out to be the exact same situation as it always has, but I think they're at least attempting to figure out how to make sure a bunch of content doesn't end up forgotten even if it's of good quality. Maybe the simple truth is that all people care about for Battlefield are three modes anyway.

 

[BloodHound]

Conquest and one other mode. Cut everything else. Double the map count.
Rotate the "other mode" with Firestorm shortly after launch.

Conquest is BF BnB.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

He is right.

Boot up GTA Online and join a random match. I am willing to bet that you will go into custom "1000000000 easy money map etc etc" type of death match or some badly made race.

 

[MisterBear]

100%

It's why I generally love when games are in Beta phase, and you have access to 1-2 maps. Then the final game comes out and has 15 maps and 8 modes and it's just too much to keep up with and the player base is so split-up, it just becomes a mess.

I wish for every multiplayer game they'd just release a cheaper or F2P Simple mode, with a couple maps and modes. This is why I love Overwatch, its very simple.

 

[I KILL PXLS]

You know what would help with this kind of thing? Cross-play.

 

[Theorry]

People remember Olibiration, War Pigeons, Defuse, Squad deathmatch, CTF, Scavenger? They never really took of. The only real gamemode that took off that was new next to CQ and Rush was Operations.

 

[Fastidioso]

Release a game with a good sp gameplay seems out of the discussion by them. Battlefield 1 was a shit show and from the walkthrough I see is the same unbearable experience. The fuck is wrong with them.

 

[Ikuu]

Sounds like a good way to release games with even less content and promise it'll be added over time.

 

[Kill3r7]

Conquest and one other mode. Cut everything else. Double the map count.
Rotate the "other mode" with Firestorm shortly after launch.

Conquest is BF BnB.

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Easy to say but gamers will rage when their favorite mode is not there. There will be memes made about lack of content and the developer will look like an asshole in three months time when they dump everything back in but folks have already abandoned the game.

 

[New Fang]

You can just say the battle royale mode wasn't ready for launch dude. We get it.

 

[VectorPrime]

Release a game with a good sp gameplay seems out of the discussion by them. Battlefield 1 was a shit show and from the walkthrough I see is the same unbearable experience. The fuck is wrong with them.

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Battlefield shouldn't even waste its time with single player at all.

 

[WellbornWarrior]

Some better UI and and a better map/mode rotation, maybe with a limited vote right for the players would also do wonders to solve these problems.

 

[benzopil]

Never too late for excuses I guess

 

[II JumPeR I]

The problem is they dont even deliver quality... so i disagree

 

[Alienous]

That problem seems better solved by pushing particular modes in the menus, and/or using Double XP to highlight particular modes. This would result in a smaller playerbase still being split as need content releases.

I'm sure the actual reason for the drip-feed of content is using it as an easy way to reignite interest in the game at certain intervals, keeping microtransaction revenue steady.

 

[Budi]

Well sure, that's obvious. Though it doesn't have to be in launch either. For Lawbreakers first adding deathmatch and then ranked when the game was already struggling did absolutely no good. Long queue times were the main concern already (crossregion matchmaking was in way too late), then you have that small playerbase playing in 3 different modes the queues will be even longer.

That said, I doubt Battlefield shares the struggles of Lawbreakers.

 

[Lolai]

Assuming this mode will be a free update, it's not a bad idea.

But rather than taking choice away from the user, isn't it a better idea to to funnel players into certain modes through incentives? For example, having a weekend or week long event that rewards the player for focusing on a specific game mode in order to funnel the player base into a common game mode.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

When you haven't finished all the gameplay content.

 

[DeliciousSunnyD!]

This is definitely true and definitely a real issue for games. I think the series that is stuck in this kind of hard-to-solve Catch-22, but that really needs to trim the fat, is Halo and the suite of gameplay variety it has offered over the years.

I think this "appeal to every player's tastes" mentality has really hurt Halo in the last decade in that it has diluted the brand, its identity, and its gameplay.

Hopefully, this kind of consideration is something the people at 343i have been thinking about very hard for what they want Halo: Infinite to be.

 

[GodofWine]

I can buy this. COD always has GOOD modes that are dead. I really wouldn't mind if they (CoD) just gave you 3-4 playlist options, one for capture modes, one for TDM type (Kill Conf etc), and one for no respawn modes (SnD / Heist), and one rotating Mercenary one.

 

[P A Z]

Part of the BFV roadmap is they'll be putting Rush in as a time limited mode.

There's nothing wrong with cutting stuff that no-one plays, BF suffereed from that just like CoD and others do but there's trimming the fat and what BFV is doing. People played Rush, sure not as much Conquest but it's a change of pace from the longer matches of Conquest/Operations.

It's sad that AAA games have twisted GaaS into releasing games unfinished and withholding content that would normally be in the game to make it look like you're being generous by giving people something (back) for free.

The WWE games made a living off it, they'd always upset fans by taking out something they loved for no good reason then put it back in the following year.

 

[Kotze282]

I sort of agree with this. It's nice to always have something fresh in the short term and with too much new content at once I just get analysis paralysis.
Past Battlefield map packs have varied a lot in their quality, so having less but better maps would be preferable. Just please don't repeat the mistake of Battlefront 2 and add way too little.

 

[Deleted member 34239]

This is a very poor excuse. When you release a game that sells 10+ million copies, the player base to sustain most modes is present. This reads as an excuse for attempting to release an early access game masquerading as a AAA title but I'm sure many will disagree with me.

 

[Deleted member 35598]

Battlefied going Blops 4 way next time -_-

 

[Deleted member 17092]

Does that really matter though with a game as big as bfv or cod though? You'll have people to play with even if there were 5 modes.

 

[TheClaw7667]

Part of the BFV roadmap is they'll be putting Rush in as a time limited mode.

There's nothing wrong with cutting stuff that no-one plays, BF suffereed from that just like CoD and others do but there's trimming the fat and what BFV is doing. People played Rush, sure not as much Conquest but it's a change of pace from the longer matches of Conquest/Operations.

It's sad that AAA games have twisted GaaS into releasing games unfinished and withholding content that would normally be in the game to make it look like you're being generous by giving people something (back) for free.

The WWE games made a living off it, they'd always upset fans by taking out something they loved for no good reason then put it back in the following year.

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There are rush like modes in BFV. And I imagine when Rush get added back in it will actually have had more thought put into it than the last games did. Rush hasn't been good since BC2, a game designed around the mode.

 

[elenarie]

Does that really matter though with a game as big as bfv or cod though? You'll have people to play with even if there were 5 modes.

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Hopefully it won't be as big of an issue now as we don't have the additional per-expansion separation as we don't have a Season Pass anymore.
Unsure how the latest CoD would deal with this.

Usually not a major issue in the western world, but some parts of the world were very struggling in past titles with expansion-specific game modes, for example. :(

 

[S1lentSymph0ny]

You know what would help with this kind of thing? Cross-play.

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I like the way you think.

 

[Dr. Caroll]

And this is why TimeSplitters faces an uphill battle the modern market. 150+ characters in the game at launch? Dozens of modes? EA didn't really know what to do with TimeSplitters because in their opinion the game had too much content in it and lacked a clear singular focus that could be translated into trailers.