Mmmk. I mean it's entirely possible, it wouldnt be the first time a company has done this.
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Did Square use an Italian fan translation for TWEWY:Final Remix?
- Thread starter Robin64
- Start date
It would be Square that's responsible here; publishers generally don't like platform holders paying for a localization themselves, as doing so would effectively allow them to hold a game "hostage" as exclusive for their in a region.
The more common practice is to accept a lump sum from the platform holder to cover these exact same costs instead (albeit indirectly), but where the publisher retains full ownership of the translation - and in this case also full responsibility for this case of plagiarism.
Because it's the weekend we won't see traction on this until Monday huh.
This shit is pretty scummy at first glance
This shit is pretty scummy at first glance
makes sense, i doubt nintendo themselves would have stolen a fan translation team's work.
The few lines from the Reaper girl after the moment in the screenshot are translated with a different tone.
Example:
Reaper expresses annoyance
- Fantranslation: "Laaame."
- Switch: "How boring."
Hell, the MC refers to the girl companion as "Rompina" (an endearing way to call someone who's annoying you) in the fantranslation, while in the Official version he's straight out calling her a stalker.
Example:
Reaper expresses annoyance
- Fantranslation: "Laaame."
- Switch: "How boring."
Hell, the MC refers to the girl companion as "Rompina" (an endearing way to call someone who's annoying you) in the fantranslation, while in the Official version he's straight out calling her a stalker.
It was copyed, 100%.
Those who say "there's only so many ways you can't translate..." are completely wrong.
Literal translations don't exist, and everyone has a different way of conveying the same message. Even the one screenshot posted could have been translated in dozens of ways.
So yes.
Those who say "there's only so many ways you can't translate..." are completely wrong.
Literal translations don't exist, and everyone has a different way of conveying the same message. Even the one screenshot posted could have been translated in dozens of ways.
So yes.
I am Italian and I can say that our language lets us say thins in very different ways, as a consequence when I write in English I fin myself more limited (however maybe it is due to the fact it isn't my mother language). However I don't have the corresponding English sentences, otherwise I would have tried to understand if they really couldn't be translated in other ways.
There was also a spanish fan translation of the game (with fan spanish dubbing too, quite awesome), so now I wonder if the spanish translation was also copied.
Edit: Gave it a quick glance and it dosn't look like it. But seeing how different they are, is clear how they were copied in this case.
Edit: Gave it a quick glance and it dosn't look like it. But seeing how different they are, is clear how they were copied in this case.
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If they really are a 90% match, then there is zero chance of it being a coincidence.
I've done plenty of translations, often in groups or teams where everyone had to translate the same text. No two translations were ever the same, and they they always differed by WAY more than 10%. Hell, if two translations done by two different people matched up 25% of the time I'd already be impressed. The only place I've ever seen that happen is with stuff like technical manuals, where there are a lot of standardized terms and expressions that get repeated over and over again.
I've done plenty of translations, often in groups or teams where everyone had to translate the same text. No two translations were ever the same, and they they always differed by WAY more than 10%. Hell, if two translations done by two different people matched up 25% of the time I'd already be impressed. The only place I've ever seen that happen is with stuff like technical manuals, where there are a lot of standardized terms and expressions that get repeated over and over again.
I studied language and literature but not in italian and in my experience it is almost impossible to come up with exact words 90 percents
Some words can have same expression, but they will often get conveyed differently. That's why when you are writing a book even with a similar theme with others' works, it will never just be the same
Some words can have same expression, but they will often get conveyed differently. That's why when you are writing a book even with a similar theme with others' works, it will never just be the same
I really hope this post doesn't get lost in the fray, as I have a unique perspective on this issue-- a very similar thing has happened (albeit with fansub scripts) to myself and to friends of mine a handful of times.
First of all, this is not a coincidence. Translation doesn't work like that. A =/= B 90% of the time. If the lines were extremely short and basic, I could see maybe 40% as being within the realm of possibility, but 50% or higher is just... indefensible.
Second of all, as has already been stated here, it's important to acknowledge that Squenix staff might not even know this has happened. It's absolutely possible that the person they contracted to do the Italian translation themselves ripped off the fan translation to snag an easy pay cheque.
Lastly, yes, this happened to me and several of my friends. Fansub scripts that we had made showed up on official DVDs. With regard to the legality of doing this, as it was explained to me, we had no discernible recourse. Our work was a derivative work for copyright purposes. We didn't own it. The holder of the copyright of the work from which it was based owned it. And also, this happens way more frequently than the amount its brought up in the public sphere would suggest. A couple years ago, a toy manufacturer who shall remain nameless showed a trailer they'd cut at an industry convention-- someone posted some off-screen footage of it, and lo and behold, it was all made with fansubs. In the same series, the English localized script was based on those very fansubs. I brought the story to some industry friends who told me it wasn't news. It happens all the time. A year or so later, a TV channel in the Philippines licensed a couple of those series for their own English dub-- of course, the scripts are the fansubs to a T. I don't know any fansubber who's been in the game for at least a decade that hasn't had something like this happen to their work, or had it happen to a close friend. As far as my admittedly limited grasp of the law is concerned, all of the above parties have every right to do this. My little rinkydink fansub script is infringing on their copyright. Hell, it's the clean hands doctrine. What court is gonna award me anything for stealing?
Some of the people who worked on those scripts were upset, but frankly I was flattered and I put it on my resume. I can prove it's mine, after all. Assuming EU law doesn't differ greatly with regard to ownership of the derivative work, which admittedly it just might, I recommend these Italian translators do just that. If your work is good enough to steal, it's good enough to get you hired.
EDIT: I guess it's important to clarify that I am not a lawyer nor have I consulted one with regard to this issue. I could be completely wrong about this, and I'll own that. I also definitely have not so much as an inkling of where EU law stands on this subject.
First of all, this is not a coincidence. Translation doesn't work like that. A =/= B 90% of the time. If the lines were extremely short and basic, I could see maybe 40% as being within the realm of possibility, but 50% or higher is just... indefensible.
Second of all, as has already been stated here, it's important to acknowledge that Squenix staff might not even know this has happened. It's absolutely possible that the person they contracted to do the Italian translation themselves ripped off the fan translation to snag an easy pay cheque.
Lastly, yes, this happened to me and several of my friends. Fansub scripts that we had made showed up on official DVDs. With regard to the legality of doing this, as it was explained to me, we had no discernible recourse. Our work was a derivative work for copyright purposes. We didn't own it. The holder of the copyright of the work from which it was based owned it. And also, this happens way more frequently than the amount its brought up in the public sphere would suggest. A couple years ago, a toy manufacturer who shall remain nameless showed a trailer they'd cut at an industry convention-- someone posted some off-screen footage of it, and lo and behold, it was all made with fansubs. In the same series, the English localized script was based on those very fansubs. I brought the story to some industry friends who told me it wasn't news. It happens all the time. A year or so later, a TV channel in the Philippines licensed a couple of those series for their own English dub-- of course, the scripts are the fansubs to a T. I don't know any fansubber who's been in the game for at least a decade that hasn't had something like this happen to their work, or had it happen to a close friend. As far as my admittedly limited grasp of the law is concerned, all of the above parties have every right to do this. My little rinkydink fansub script is infringing on their copyright. Hell, it's the clean hands doctrine. What court is gonna award me anything for stealing?
Some of the people who worked on those scripts were upset, but frankly I was flattered and I put it on my resume. I can prove it's mine, after all. Assuming EU law doesn't differ greatly with regard to ownership of the derivative work, which admittedly it just might, I recommend these Italian translators do just that. If your work is good enough to steal, it's good enough to get you hired.
EDIT: I guess it's important to clarify that I am not a lawyer nor have I consulted one with regard to this issue. I could be completely wrong about this, and I'll own that. I also definitely have not so much as an inkling of where EU law stands on this subject.
Mewster is waiting for his account to go through so he can post, but he sent me this.
Apparently something about this is horrible, in his words, but it's there 1 for 1 in the official translation.
Mewster said:
Apparently something about this is horrible, in his words, but it's there 1 for 1 in the official translation.
Yeah they copied it, pretty obvious now.Mewster is waiting for his account to go through so he can post, but he sent me this.
Apparently something about this is horrible, in his words, but it's there 1 for 1 in the official translation.
completely obvious. i can't take seriously anyone who even entertains the possibility of a coincidence.
Apparently something about this is horrible, in his words, but it's there 1 for 1 in the official translation.
gaming websites should pick up on this news and force SE to comment on it.
you should contact a mod to fast track that if that's possible, would be nice to have him in this discussion.
And why wouldn't them be? Fan translations are distributed as patches and are completely legal, you can't just claim someone else's work and use it on your product for a profit without their consent lmao. Imagine Nintendo randomly putting a fan-made cover of one of their songs in a game without the artist's permission.
it's not ever ok to take someone's work and claim it's your own and not give them credit.
legally they are probably up for grabs..morally though, it's not a good look
I know nothing about the legality of the situation but I can say for damn sure that it is extremely unethical to do something like this. It's offensive to the fan translators and frankly it's offensive to the people paying them to translate it, considering that doesn't seem to have actually happened.
The DS game was only released in Japanese and in English. The Switch version added support for Spanish, Italian, German and French I think
Yeah, I don't want to excuse SE from this or anything, but if they use third parties for some of their localizations it's possible they didn't know about this at all. They still need to do something about it though.
It was released only in English in Europe. SE had an awful track record of translated games a few years ago, on Europe.
The localization credits for Japanese to English in the original release have freelancers credited. Wouldn't be surprised if that happened here for the Italian translation.
Yes they are, there's a reason why company can't accept fan art or fan fiction in case they could be accused of stealing the work.
It was one of the few Square Enix DS games to not have been properly translated in all Multi-5 languages. Huge disappointing news back at that time, especially when they made efforts like translating Chrono Trigger in French for the DS release.
Assuming it's really "90% the same" there's no way it's a coincidence, Italian, and romance languages in general, have like more than 10 ways of saying the same thing with slightly different implications.
Given the multiple comments about Square half-assing this port, might anyone elaborate on what else is wrong with it?
As a translator, I can assure you there is no way a 90% similarity would be "just a coincidence." No translation done by two different people will ever be the same, save for a few short sentences here and there.
If the 90% thing is true, then fuck you SE.
Edit: then again, if the translation wasn't done in-house, there's a chance the translator who was hired for the Italian version grabbed the fantranslation and used that without SE ever knowing about it.
If the 90% thing is true, then fuck you SE.
Edit: then again, if the translation wasn't done in-house, there's a chance the translator who was hired for the Italian version grabbed the fantranslation and used that without SE ever knowing about it.
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Erm, that isn't how copyright works. The translation becomes automatically "copyrighted" the moment it's created.
I watched some scenes from the let's play video in the OP.
At 1.13:43 there is the sentence "Il mio nome è Sanae Hanekagoma. nato il 3 marzo, gruppo sanguigno A." It doesn't sound too good, I would have written "Sono nato il 3 marzo, il mio gruppo sanguigno è A".
And then, at "1:14:09" he says "Vi farò il miglior cafferino mai creato - in cambio di moneta sonante, ovviamente". cafferino means a "nice cafè", but honestly I've never used this word, it isn't so frequent, while for moneta sonante (hard cash in English) I can think everal other ways to express it ("denaro in abbondanza", "quattrini", "grana").
However, as I said before, I don't have the corresponding English sentences, so all could be true. I really hope that the responsibles of the Italian localisation can answer our doubts, in some way.
About the 90% I read before, is it confirmed, anyway? Because we just have 6 minutes on Youtube of the fan translation, unfortunately...
At 1.13:43 there is the sentence "Il mio nome è Sanae Hanekagoma. nato il 3 marzo, gruppo sanguigno A." It doesn't sound too good, I would have written "Sono nato il 3 marzo, il mio gruppo sanguigno è A".
And then, at "1:14:09" he says "Vi farò il miglior cafferino mai creato - in cambio di moneta sonante, ovviamente". cafferino means a "nice cafè", but honestly I've never used this word, it isn't so frequent, while for moneta sonante (hard cash in English) I can think everal other ways to express it ("denaro in abbondanza", "quattrini", "grana").
However, as I said before, I don't have the corresponding English sentences, so all could be true. I really hope that the responsibles of the Italian localisation can answer our doubts, in some way.
About the 90% I read before, is it confirmed, anyway? Because we just have 6 minutes on Youtube of the fan translation, unfortunately...
With regards to that second image and why it's horrible...
To see the exact same horrible dialogue in the official one pretty much confirms suspicions.
Mewster said:
To see the exact same horrible dialogue in the official one pretty much confirms suspicions.
I was more stunned by "Ma tu, in quel completo" honestly, it doesn't sound fluent to me.