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Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
Reporting by Andrey Apanasik for DTF.ru on October 17th 2022. Couldn't find a thread about this article.


Google Translated: https://archive.ph/54nMD

If Russian Era members like Rosenkrantz or TheBrightestSun can chime in on the translation or the article, would be much appreciated.

There's a lot of mentions about crunch, failed promises like about bonuses, bad management, no milestones set, reboots, multiple prototypes, feature creep, many interns and lots of turnover rates, the art team leaving in 2020, the QA team nearly left, relocations from Moscow to Yerevan (Armenia) and Cyprus if you were one of the chosen few, and much more. Builds would be shown to investors every 3 months or trailers made, but it seems lots of reworking would be demanded rather than building on the foundations. Gameplay trailers appeared to have basically been made as vertical slices rather than from the actual builds of the game, hence why it can often look so polished when you see a new trailer. At one point it was gonna be open world with various paths and dungeons. Lies about "it's hard times now" despite having a lot of money for a AAA project and investing from Tencent, GEM Capital, and Gaijin Entertainment.

The characters:
  • Robert Bagratuni (Maxim Zatsepin) is a CEO/investor, whom everyone refers to as a good advertiser and marketer. He believes that "the game sells only a picture and a story, so the gameplay can be neglected." Incredibly creative, always knows how to sell an idea.
  • Oleg Gorodishenin is a producer on the project. Reviews about him are very contradictory, but most often employees say that he, like Robert, likes to promote and push his ideas bypassing all procedures and their own established rules.
  • Artem Galeev is a key person in the development of the game. Responsible for the design and setting. Other employees speak generally positively about him, saying that he "constantly plows".
  • Andrey Dyakov is a CTO who is technically savvy and really knows the ins and outs of UE, but "often pulled the blanket over himself, exposing the others as wrong."
"There's a script. And this is a film script and the game itself is made as a movie, not as a game - hence part of the problems."​
...
"We have a lot of work to do, and I believe we can and should give up primitive joys like weekends and vacations for the sake of the project. We will reimburse with bonuses to the NG that will amaze your imagination." - Robert Bagratuni


Bonuses, of course, no one saw.​
...
Crunches and transfers
There were a lot of landmarks and dates, but they were all too optimistic, besides, they scored to the last on the console versions. Testing on them takes a lot of time, and a couple of times, following the plans of the management, there were about 2-3 months left for console testing. Over the past year, crunches have become more frequent, mainly due to investors. During the New Year holidays, most of the team worked. Sometimes you didn't have a choice to crunch or not: someone on the team had to come out.


In addition, every 3 months, as if by the hour, some new "reasons" were generated: showing the build to investors or trailers. Upon reaching a certain date, the management allegedly evaluated the work of everyone and rhythmically conducted a wave of layoffs and new hires. Sometimes people were fired one day to give their iron to new employees.


The management regularly talks about bonuses after the release and about the work "from which you are a fan".​


webp

Dmitry Bagaev 10:04 PM​
@channel, hello!​
Last Friday, we told you about the plans, they are excellent, feasible and we are quickly moving towards their implementation.​
Of course, there are obstacles in our way: payment restrictions. You felt it on the April salary and we are doing everything possible to prevent this from happening again.​
To do this, we take several steps:​
of course we develop places where we can​
accept you outside the Russian Federation and Ukraine​
(Armenia, UAE);​
we optimize financial flows. On the financial side, we have come to the decision to temporarily change pay for weekend work from x1.5 to x1.​
This measure applies only to those who receive money on the territory of the Russian Federation and is associated with the complexity of money transfers from other countries and the unstable exchange rate. This decision is difficult for us, but it corresponds to the current situation 1 It is extremely unprofitable to do business in Russia and this is reflected in our financial planning. We try to mitigate the consequences of what is happening as much as possible, but they affect everyone.​
If the situation changes, we will be happy to return to the previous scheme, in the meantime we are happy to help everyone who wants to move, contact me directly, I will tell you in detail about how the relocation process works, it's really simple)​

It's at least clear from the footage released so far that the artists did some great work, but they might not have been fairly compensated.

Wouldn't be surprised if Atomic Heart releases very buggy and not well on consoles.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
User Banned (5 Days): insensitive drive-by in a thread about poor working conditions
Let's see where this is going.

I remember how "insiders" near to the Witcher 3 release talked about how bad it was before release. Smoke and mirrors without a real game. We know how this turned out.

I would absolutely wait for reviews. Or you can just test it with Game Pass day 1.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
Let's see where this is going.

I remember how "insiders" near to the Witcher 3 release talked about how bad it was before release. Smoke and mirrors without a real game. We know how this turned out.

I remember that, dude was pretty committed to that bit, with enough passion it almost sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,724
Italy
Let's see where this is going.

I remember how "insiders" near to the Witcher 3 release talked about how bad it was before release. Smoke and mirrors without a real game. We know how this turned out.

I would absolutely wait for reviews. Or you can just test it with Game Pass day 1.
Maybe the focus here is more about how people are getting treated that the quality of the game itself.
 
OP
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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
This seems like a follow-up to what was reported before in 2019 as rumours.

www.resetera.com

Rumor: Not everything is great with Atomic Heart development.

Interesting article came out from a gamedev related Telegram channel. Poster says he anonymously talked with some of the Atomic Heart devs to find out what's been happening with all these rumors (rumors that almost got no attention outside local websites). Key notes (but there are a lot more...
 

Taleboules

Community Manager at Light Brick Studio
Verified
Jun 11, 2021
98
Let's see where this is going.

I remember how "insiders" near to the Witcher 3 release talked about how bad it was before release. Smoke and mirrors without a real game. We know how this turned out.

I would absolutely wait for reviews. Or you can just test it with Game Pass day 1.
This report is talking about the treatment of people working on a game, you're talking about the quality of the game... What's wrong with you?
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,332
Earlier "gameplay" trailers being vertical slices isn't really surprising or uncommon.

The crunch situation sounds terrible. The rest of it I can't really make solid heads or tails of due to the wording of the translation. I think forcing people to crunch with vague promises of bonuses sucks, but wouldn't any bonuses come after the game is shipped?

"We will reimburse with bonuses to the NG that will amaze your imagination." ...What?

Hopefully someone can give us a better translation of this.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Yea. This all seems to fit with the report from 2019 (which also never really went anywhere?) which was recently bumped. That one even mentioned that this Galeev person was the real creative behind everything, etc. But also, it feels like there are a lot of pieces missing here. If this crunch situation is true (and I wouldn't be surprised), that's absolutely terrible. And there aren't very many GOOD reasons that your entire art team would just quit. Will hope for more and clearer reporting. But yea, sounds terrible.

Stuff like relocations and payment restrictions are also terrible. I'd be curious to know the timing on those, in relation to the war and sanctions (or even the recent Russian mobilization + fleeing). Though, certainly sounds like many of these issues would be quite deep-seated, if the reports are accurate.
 

420blzUP

Member
Oct 6, 2022
711
"We will reimburse with bonuses to the NG that will amaze your imagination." ...What?

"Возместим бонусами к НГ, которые поразят ваше воображение"

NG = НГ = Новый Год(Novyj God) = New Year. He was talking about the Russian equivalent to the Christmas bonuses.
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,920
Reporting by Andrey Apanasik for DTF.ru on October 17th 2022. Couldn't find a thread about this article.


Google Translated: https://archive.ph/54nMD

If Russian Era members like Rosenkrantz or TheBrightestSun can chime in on the translation or the article, would be much appreciated.

There's a lot of mentions about crunch, failed promises like about bonuses, bad management, no milestones set, reboots, multiple prototypes, feature creep, many interns and lots of turnover rates, the art team leaving in 2020, the QA team nearly left, relocations from Moscow to Yerevan (Armenia) and Cyprus if you were one of the chosen few, and much more. Builds would be shown to investors every 3 months or trailers made, but it seems lots of reworking would be demanded rather than building on the foundations. Gameplay trailers appeared to have basically been made as vertical slices rather than from the actual builds of the game, hence why it can often look so polished when you see a new trailer. At one point it was gonna be open world with various paths and dungeons. Lies about "it's hard times now" despite having a lot of money for a AAA project and investing from Tencent, GEM Capital, and Gaijin Entertainment.

The characters:
  • Robert Bagratuni (Maxim Zatsepin) is a CEO/investor, whom everyone refers to as a good advertiser and marketer. He believes that "the game sells only a picture and a story, so the gameplay can be neglected." Incredibly creative, always knows how to sell an idea.
  • Oleg Gorodishenin is a producer on the project. Reviews about him are very contradictory, but most often employees say that he, like Robert, likes to promote and push his ideas bypassing all procedures and their own established rules.
  • Artem Galeev is a key person in the development of the game. Responsible for the design and setting. Other employees speak generally positively about him, saying that he "constantly plows".
  • Andrey Dyakov is a CTO who is technically savvy and really knows the ins and outs of UE, but "often pulled the blanket over himself, exposing the others as wrong."
"There's a script. And this is a film script and the game itself is made as a movie, not as a game - hence part of the problems."​
...
"We have a lot of work to do, and I believe we can and should give up primitive joys like weekends and vacations for the sake of the project. We will reimburse with bonuses to the NG that will amaze your imagination." - Robert Bagratuni




Bonuses, of course, no one saw.​
...
Crunches and transfers
There were a lot of landmarks and dates, but they were all too optimistic, besides, they scored to the last on the console versions. Testing on them takes a lot of time, and a couple of times, following the plans of the management, there were about 2-3 months left for console testing. Over the past year, crunches have become more frequent, mainly due to investors. During the New Year holidays, most of the team worked. Sometimes you didn't have a choice to crunch or not: someone on the team had to come out.




In addition, every 3 months, as if by the hour, some new "reasons" were generated: showing the build to investors or trailers. Upon reaching a certain date, the management allegedly evaluated the work of everyone and rhythmically conducted a wave of layoffs and new hires. Sometimes people were fired one day to give their iron to new employees.




The management regularly talks about bonuses after the release and about the work "from which you are a fan".​


webp

Dmitry Bagaev 10:04 PM


@channel, hello!


Last Friday, we told you about the plans, they are excellent, feasible and we are quickly moving towards their implementation.


Of course, there are obstacles in our way: payment restrictions. You felt it on the April salary and we are doing everything possible to prevent this from happening again.


To do this, we take several steps:


of course we develop places where we can


accept you outside the Russian Federation and Ukraine


(Armenia, UAE);


we optimize financial flows. On the financial side, we have come to the decision to temporarily change pay for weekend work from x1.5 to x1.


This measure applies only to those who receive money on the territory of the Russian Federation and is associated with the complexity of money transfers from other countries and the unstable exchange rate. This decision is difficult for us, but it corresponds to the current situation 1 It is extremely unprofitable to do business in Russia and this is reflected in our financial planning. We try to mitigate the consequences of what is happening as much as possible, but they affect everyone.


If the situation changes, we will be happy to return to the previous scheme, in the meantime we are happy to help everyone who wants to move, contact me directly, I will tell you in detail about how the relocation process works, it's really simple)​

It's at least clear from the footage released so far that the artists did some great work, but they might not have been fairly compensated.

Wouldn't be surprised if Atomic Heart releases very buggy and not well on consoles.
It's more or less readable in a Google translate version you've posted. The biggest problem is management, more specifically CEO, absolutely not having an idea or clear vision of what he wants to see in a product and basically being a Tony Khan of game dev (wrestling fans will get it), no clear structure to development teams to the point that several people could've worked on the same task, talented, but hard to work with creative director, and yeah, there's a lot of crunch.
 
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OP
Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
It's more or less readable in a Google translate version you've posted. The biggest problem is management, more specifically CEO, absolutely not having an idea or clear vision of what he wants to see in a product and basically being a Tony Khan of game dev (wrestling fans will get it), no clear structure to development teams to the point that several people could've worked on the same task, talented, but hard to work with creative director, and yeah, there's a lot of crunch.
Yeah it reminds me of how Techland is run, with super rich guys at the top who don't have much game development experience but still make all the decisions.
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,920
Yeah it reminds me of how Techland is run, with super rich guys at the top who don't have much game development experience but still make all the decisions.
It's more than that, there's a lot of time wasted on tasks that he handles to people and when they complete them he either pretends or doesn't remember that he was the one who asked to realize these ideas in a first place.
 

IwazaruK7

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,155
It's a studio that haven't released games before (except that VR thing), and they try to jump right into AAA sphere. Big ambitions, but it comes with difficulties...

We'll see how it all ends up,. in the end. In first years after announcement I was very sceptical about the game, but then more demonstrations appeared and project started looking very interesting. Especially after Gordon joined for music.
 

Argentil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
732
I feel really sad mentioning this, but people don't give a crap about the way Devs are treated after the smoke clears. But when it comes to our favourite corporate entities as a whole, we flock to defend them.

Cyberpunk had a shitty production, Devs crunched for months at a time, marketing lied about features even in the weeks leading up to release. Here we are over a year later and the game is topping steam charts. The damage to Devs is mitigated or not even discussed and CDProjekt Red are climbing back into favour. I reckon the same thing will happen here. Maybe the game will have a buggy launch as well, that didn't stop Cyberpunk either.
 

apanasik

Member
Nov 5, 2022
25
Cyprus
Author of original article is here. Few things:
1. I've told with 10+ employees. So, that's more than just "insights".
2. Shitty managers doesn't mean that the game will be bad.
 

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,517
Let's see where this is going.

I remember how "insiders" near to the Witcher 3 release talked about how bad it was before release. Smoke and mirrors without a real game. We know how this turned out.

I would absolutely wait for reviews. Or you can just test it with Game Pass day 1.

I don't remember that for the Witcher. I remember an insider saying it was a mess and reports after, along with leaks, supported that. It wouldn't even boot on consoles a year and a half before release. They had horrible crunch to get it out in the state they did.

Are you thinking of God of War? There was a leaker for that that claimed the E3 demo was fake and that there wasn't any actual game, which was a lie.
 
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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
I thought about translation of my article, and wrote several western media if they are interested in this story at all. All of them ignored me 😅
Oh wow, thanks for being here! And for doing the work for this article. That's really odd that Western outlets weren't interested in this story. It's a Russian AAA game and a lot of Westerners want this to be the next Bioshock so it's odd the lack of interest. Maybe Eurogamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, Gamespot, VICE/Waypoint, or Polygon are worth a try if you haven't already tried.
 

Madden

Member
Nov 21, 2017
214
I wonder why no western media is picking it up, it seems like reporting on bad studio practices is one of the easiest stories, it's one that is usually popular and generates a lot of discussion.
 

apanasik

Member
Nov 5, 2022
25
Cyprus
Oh wow, thanks for being here! And for doing the work for this article. That's really odd that Western outlets weren't interested in this story. It's a Russian AAA game and a lot of Westerners want this to be the next Bioshock so it's odd the lack of interest. Maybe Eurogamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, Gamespot, VICE/Waypoint, or Polygon are worth a try if you haven't already tried.
Eurogamer, Polygon, Bloomberg, Kotaku, Schreier didn't respond. But I'll try the rest. Thanks)
 

sionydus

Member
Jan 2, 2021
1,933
West Coast, USA
This seems like a follow-up to what was reported before in 2019 as rumours.

www.resetera.com

Rumor: Not everything is great with Atomic Heart development.

Interesting article came out from a gamedev related Telegram channel. Poster says he anonymously talked with some of the Atomic Heart devs to find out what's been happening with all these rumors (rumors that almost got no attention outside local websites). Key notes (but there are a lot more...

My thoughts when reading this. Even if the game turns out well, I doubt "leadership" is going to learn and do better next time.
 
OP
OP
Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
Author of original article is here. Few things:
1. I've told with 10+ employees. So, that's more than just "insights".
2. Shitty managers doesn't mean that the game will be bad.
Yeah, the second is an important point. When good games built under bad practices are celebrated, the issues can get swept under the rug or excused e.g. Rockstar, Naughty Dog, CD Projekt Red, EA, Epic Games, etc.

Crunch still makes game development worse, on the whole.
There have been immensely successful games that came as a result of crunch such as Fortnite, Fallout 4, and Uncharted 4: A Thief's End which all saw extreme commercial success and solid critical acclaim as well.[19] Still, there are many games that avoided crunch throughout the entire development process that still received commercial and critical success such as Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Apex Legends, and Don't Starve.[7][17][19]
A study by The Game Outcomes Project found that mandatory crunch led to less successful games, using Metacritic as a gauge of success. The group found that cultural factors such as focus, team cohesion, and a compelling direction were more important than pure hours of work in determining how good a game was. This led to the conclusion that in fact crunch might make games worse rather than better, and at the least, resulted in diminishing returns.[2]
During the development of Overkill's The Walking Dead, crunch at Starbreeze Studios and Overkill Software due to development problems had a negative effect, resulting in a product that was critically panned for its quality and gameplay, and leaving both studios in financial distress.[30]
Bugs seen at the launch of Fallout: New Vegas came as a result of a short production schedule forced on the team by publisher Bethesda and lead to an infamous "crunch" period for the dev team, said bugs and poor performance cost the developer Obsidian Entertainment a $1 million conditional bonus based on critical reception, though insiders claim the short deadline and conditional bonus based on a metacritic score was essentially to avoid paying said bonus. [31]

And then we need to keep demanding better and fair labour practice despite the quality of the product.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,858
The game looks really interesting, but this is so disheartening and the oldest story in the book. I hope it turns out well and everyone is rewarded for their hard efforts... I have more faith in the former than the later.

Thanks for putting the work in to get this info out there.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,246
The game has always "felt" like it's a bit of a mess behind the scenes. Cryptic trailers are fine from known studios but from a new venture they sometimes seem a little too good to be true. Something about the Atomic Heart trailers always gave me the impression that there wasn't a clear vision, it was just a lot of striking imagery and gorgeous graphics thrown together in a way they'd figure out later.

Not saying this precludes the game from being good -- it very well might be! -- only that the whole saga of this game feels like something they've kind of been making up as they go.
 

kimbo99

Member
Feb 21, 2021
4,798
I feel really sad mentioning this, but people don't give a crap about the way Devs are treated after the smoke clears. But when it comes to our favourite corporate entities as a whole, we flock to defend them.

Cyberpunk had a shitty production, Devs crunched for months at a time, marketing lied about features even in the weeks leading up to release. Here we are over a year later and the game is topping steam charts. The damage to Devs is mitigated or not even discussed and CDProjekt Red are climbing back into favour. I reckon the same thing will happen here. Maybe the game will have a buggy launch as well, that didn't stop Cyberpunk either.


🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,611
Texas
Good reporting and thanks to those that helped translate.

Really sucks to hear about the environment and treatment the developers have had to deal with. People in this thread bring up a good point in that it's not just enough that we differentiate between the company/product/workers when we condemn or poorly receive a game, but also when the game is good and receives praise. Edit: to clarify, I mean if a game does well and reviews well, we shouldn't assume that means everything behind the scenes is just peachy. We should always pay attention to worker treatment, not just when there are rumors of rocky development.

Hoping some high profile outlets pick this up because it needs to be on more radars. I'm torn on whether or not I want to play this especially not knowing if it will improve things for workers or not.
 
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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
I wrote a huge article (in Russian, yeah =/) about crunches 2 years ago. The saddest thing here is that there are a lot of famous developers, which think that "the best games can't be developed without crunches".
Thanks, I'll give it a read. It's classic survivor bias. Retrospective thinking that if good games were made under bad conditionss, it was worth it.

No wonder AAA games have been buggier, less risky, and needing day 1 patches or whatever else in the last decade or more.
 

FuzzyWuzzy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 7, 2019
2,086
Austria
Author of original article is here. Few things:
1. I've told with 10+ employees. So, that's more than just "insights".
2. Shitty managers doesn't mean that the game will be bad.
Thanks for the reporting. It is a shame to hear that seemingly no one took you up on your offer. I guess crunch at a smaller international studio isn't a huge story for some.
 

Fezan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,274
That's surprising especially with Bloomberg and Kotaku but good that you tried. Thought Schreier would jump at the chance for this story. This needs to be reported more.
Not surprising at all. It's a small studio in Russia means Very little clicks compared to reporting on rockstar or leaking some highly anticipated AAA game
 

Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,522
Not surprising at all. It's a small studio in Russia means Very little clicks compared to reporting on rockstar or leaking some highly anticipated AAA game

In a weird way I could see the game doing well because of how unique it seems to be, which would then push this story to the front... but also maybe not help the situation
 
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Messofanego

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,132
UK
Not surprising at all. It's a small studio in Russia means Very little clicks compared to reporting on rockstar or leaking some highly anticipated AAA game
I don't know if it's the size necessarily because I've read stories from well known outlets about indie size studios and issues of crunch, abuse, etc so I would wager it's because there are not many Western journalists or outlets with branches in Russia or nearby to do proper reports. Although that's where reporters like Apanasik come in to share the news to more Western outlets and so it's a shame this kind of story is being declined.
 

Meowmixez

ESS ESS DEE
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,154
I actually hope the game does well just so some of the people who worked on it make some money. I just hope it isn't a mess. I really want to buy it though.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
Hope there was no issues with the OST 😅

Times really are hard with games development these days.
 

Simplex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
405
I wrote a huge article (in Russian, yeah =/) about crunches 2 years ago. The saddest thing here is that there are a lot of famous developers, which think that "the best games can't be developed without crunches".
Hi,

I tried accessing your articles on DTF.ru but it seems that the account was frozen? Аккаунт заморожен
dtf.ru

Статья удалена — Аккаунт заморожен на DTF

Этот материал был удалён по просьбе автора.

Is there any way to access your articles about crunch and Mundfish?

At least the google translated version on archive.ph is still there.
 

apanasik

Member
Nov 5, 2022
25
Cyprus
Hi,

I tried accessing your articles on DTF.ru but it seems that the account was frozen? Аккаунт заморожен
dtf.ru

Статья удалена — Аккаунт заморожен на DTF

Этот материал был удалён по просьбе автора.

Is there any way to access your articles about crunch and Mundfish?

At least the google translated version on archive.ph is still there.
It's available now. Sorry for that 😅