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Kurri

Member
Oct 26, 2017
205
Lots of people expected this to be good.
People liked the daytime stages of Unleashed, they liked Colors and Generations too. So a game that's supposed to be continuing the style of those three was expected to be good.

Sonic Team has blunders, but you can't say no one expected this to be good when the last three boost games were liked by fans.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Man, being a Sonic fan must hurt.

I don't even really like Sonic, but Generations is a pretty sweet game. Bought Mania too because what the hell, why not, and it seems alright so far.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,864
I suppose it comes down to a few basic things...

Level design is the most significant issue here. Having just spent the afternoon replaying parts of Generations and Unleashed, in order to compare and contrast, the main difference stems from minute to minute complexity. It's not that those games are "complex', per se, rather the level design rewards and encourages skilled play. There are multiple tiers in each stage (not unlike 2D Sonic but narrower in a sense) and it's easy to fall down to the slower path. The "top" path is designed to reward those that can react and deal with challenges quickly. You'll be quickly dodging, jumping, ducking, boosting and interacting throughout each stages and doing it well feels fantastic. I always got an emotional high from playing Boost Sonic well - the combination of music, speed and skill help create something memorable.

Sonic Forces, in comparison, features levels which are roughly 50-75% shorter on average requiring just over a minute to complete in many cases. Each level consists of a very straight path with no deviation, lots of scripted sections and little challenge. It truly has become boost to win in that sense. Beyond that, when you do slowdown, the game feels very blocky as if the team simply connected a bunch of square objects together and tossed a few enemies in. It feels cheap and poorly made. You go back to some of the best Unleashed and Generations stages and they feel CRAFTED by a talented designer - lots of bespoke level objects and segments. Forces feels like a mix of straight, barely interactive boost tracks and blocky, uninspired platforming.

Then there is the pacing.

The game is driven by an overworld map presented as a globe. On this globe are level scattered all about while pressing Y or triangle brings up a list of possible stages. You see this map a lot. The basic flow involves selecting a level -> listening to a dialog sequence presented using text boxes -> watching a cut-scene (often) -> playing the stage -> looking at the victory screen as it rewards you with tons of unlockable clothing for your avatar -> going back to the map.

Let's say it takes 3 minutes to go from clicking on a stage to returning to the map. 1:20 of that might be the stage but the rest is taken up by dialog, cut-scenes and reward screens. You spend more time looking at this stuff than actually playing. So even though the levels are short and simple, they can still feel "fun" at times, no doubt, and the music is awesome. It just feels like they're giving you a small taste and, just as you get into it, the stage ends.

This is made worse by the fact that the story, its pacing and the tone are just so awful. Sonic has done serious before, that's fine, I could enjoy what Sonic Adventure 2 was selling. I could enjoy a "serious" Sonic story. The issue here is that it's presented in random chunks which don't feel connected. Like, you'll play a classic Sonic level and, after finishing it, the game shows a cut-scene taking place in a completely different location with different characters set in the past that has nothing to do with what you were just doing. Each cut-scene is short and written in a very terse fashion so it never feels like it fills anything in.

The game just loves to bounce around between random scenes and levels that aren't well directed without any cohesion.

So there's a very start/stop feel to its gameplay since levels are so short and the surrounding package feels so bloated and the story telling is just all over the place. It ruins it for me in a big way.

What's worse is that they focus very heavily on customizing your avatar, completing daily missions (ie - equip a new pair of gloves to double your EXP for 40 minutes!!!), and replaying levels. It honestly feels like a shell built for a mobile phone game more than anything else.

All of this combines to create something that just keeps making me feel worse every single time I play it. There are moments of fun in here where you get a feeling not unlike Sonic Generations but they are so few and far between. THAT is ultimately what has ruined the game for me.

Thanks for the detailed impressions. That's exactly what I feared when seeing the video's and tried the demo in terms of level design. I'll wait and get this on the cheap in that case.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,304
Just let Nintendo develop it for their consoles.

This thought has occurred to me countless times. Seeing how they often take their own properties, most recently Odyssey and BotW, and shake them up in ways that add tons of new gameplay while keeping the heart of those properties intact, it seems they would be a fairly safe set of hands to give(loan?) the series to.
 

Dooble

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,468
This thought has occurred to me countless times. Seeing how they often take their own properties, most recently Odyssey and BotW, and shake them up in ways that add tons of new gameplay while keeping the heart of those properties intact, it seems they would be a fairly safe set of hands to give(loan?) the series to.

Mario and Zelda are on way different leagues in priority for Nintendo, there are company defining franchises. Putting the same effort into something outside like Sonic would not happen.
 

LowMax

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
360
The fans can do a better job at making the games. At least they know what is enjoyable.
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,905
Germany
Will someone please take Sonic away from Sonic Team? Just getting Sonic Mania isn't good enough at this point.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,480
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Mario and Zelda are on way different leagues in priority for Nintendo, there are company defining franchises. Putting the same effort into something outside like Sonic would not happen.

They could give it to Yasuhara with a much lower budget then Forces and he would still turn out a game far better then the current Sonic Team could.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
191
The Facility
Yeeeeeeep, this game really is that predictable.

It's pretty telling that nothing in the story surprised anybody in these threads. They even had the Avatar pull a "MY PLANET NEEDS ME" so Sonic Team never has to implement the Avatar system again.

They couldn't even make Infinite interesting; he could've at least been "evil future *insert character here*". That's cliche, but more interesting than "oh, he doesn't count; he's not real".