Digital Foundry: Apex Legends: Every Console Tested - Which Can Sustain 60fps Gameplay?

Dark1x · Feb 8, 2019

Belvedere said:
Hoping NXGamer tests. I'm confused about avg framerate as the guys were all over the place on it.

To paraphrase:

When it drops it always drops harder on X.
You can trade out performance of both consoles (Pro and X) as they're about the same.
X maybe has smoother average gameplay.

This was all within 5 minutes and why I would really, really love (and sound like a broken record) for DF to take a slice of gameplay and dump the framerate log so we can see average framerates.

We know it's variable and impossible to have 100% parity across platforms when testing, but it sure beats making assumptions from feedback like what we see here!

It's commenting on the moment - the drop section from the air does run worse but everything else is the same or better.

Here's the metrics from one 23 minute clip on Xbox One X for you, though.

Average frame-rate is 59.33
Lowest: 40
Highest: 60

Here's PS4 Pro from a shorter but still long video (like 11 minutes)

Average frame-rate is 59.19
Lowest: 39
Highest: 60

So, yeah, basically about the same there. I don't really think these metrics are that useful, though, but there they are.

Atolm · Feb 8, 2019

The very little I played, (One X) I found stutters during gunfights. I was very disappointed. I hope they can iron these put.

If it's a success it's coming for sure to next gen day one, so it's no biggie.

Pryme · Feb 8, 2019

impact said:
The thing was showing its age since day one.

At this point you really have to not care about visuals or framerate to still be gaming on one.

This is ridiculously hyperbolic.

impact · Feb 8, 2019

Atolm said:
The very little I played, (One X) I found stutters during gunfights. I was very disappointed. I hope they can iron these put.

If it's a success it's coming for sure to next gen day one, so it's no biggie.

Have you tried clearing the cache lately? I don't get any of that on 1X

RagdollRhino · Feb 8, 2019

Dips to under 700p for base xbox? Glad they're doing whatever it takes for performance but damn.

PLASTICA-MAN · Feb 8, 2019

Dark1x said:
It's commenting on the moment - the drop section from the air does run worse but everything else is the same or better.

Here's the metrics from one 23 minute clip on Xbox One X for you, though.

Average frame-rate is 59.33
Lowest: 40
Highest: 60

Here's PS4 Pro from a shorter but still long video (like 11 minutes)

Average frame-rate is 59.19
Lowest: 39
Highest: 60

So, yeah, basically about the same there. I don't really think these metrics are that useful, though, but there they are.

So both PS4 PRO and XB O X are excellent builds? Right?

Dark1x · Feb 8, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
So both PS4 PRO and XB O X are excellent builds? Right?

Yes. They're both excellent.

PS4 base is also fairly good but S isn't great.

Atolm · Feb 8, 2019

impact said:
Have you tried clearing the cache lately? I don't get any of that on 1X

How can I do that?

PLASTICA-MAN · Feb 8, 2019

Dark1x said:
Yes. They're both excellent.

PS4 base is also fairly good but S isn't great.

Ok. Thanks.

Btw I am reposting my question from the first page: Do you know if this modified Source Engine version still not use PBR, unlike Source 2.0 which includes it by default? I know this a modified Source evrsion but Source is still outdated and I can't think about a late-gen game that doesn't have PBR . Tbh, imo the game doesn't seem to have accurate looking materials reacting to lights, so mostly it doesn't have PBR.: /

Dark1x · Feb 8, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Ok. Thanks.

Btw I am reposting my question from the first page: Do you know if this modified Source Engine version still not use PBR, unlike Source 2.0 which includes it by default? I know this a modified Source evrsion but Source is still outdated and I can't think about a late-gen game that doesn't have PBR . Tbh, imo the game doesn't seem to have accurate looking materials reacting to lights, so mostly it doesn't have PBR.: /

Well, there are some barrels with really nice materials but overall I agree. Not great.

Dictator · Feb 8, 2019

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Ok. Thanks.

Btw I am reposting my question from the first page: Do you know if this modified Source Engine version still not use PBR, unlike Source 2.0 which includes it by default? I know this a modified Source evrsion but Source is still outdated and I can't think about a late-gen game that doesn't have PBR . Tbh, imo the game doesn't seem to have accurate looking materials reacting to lights, so mostly it doesn't have PBR.: /

Even though it started as source, this game graphically has very little to do with source 2.0 and branched waaaaaay earlier.
They have a presentation detailing their approach to PBR in TItanfall 2.

Belvedere · Feb 8, 2019

Dark1x said:
It's commenting on the moment - the drop section from the air does run worse but everything else is the same or better.

Here's the metrics from one 23 minute clip on Xbox One X for you, though.

Average frame-rate is 59.33
Lowest: 40
Highest: 60

Here's PS4 Pro from a shorter but still long video (like 11 minutes)

Average frame-rate is 59.19
Lowest: 39
Highest: 60

So, yeah, basically about the same there. I don't really think these metrics are that useful, though, but there they are.

Hey awesome John, thank you for sharing the frame stats!

Personally I've always found these statistics very useful, especially when benchmarking my PC, so its a great tool for us as console owners too.
I think it's even more relevant for games like Apex where large frame drops are detrimental to gameplay and being able to see the specific differences there is very helpful. If it's not too much trouble for you guys I think there's a good number of your viewers who would appreciate the extra layer of data with future analysis videos.

Dark1x · Feb 8, 2019

Belvedere said:
Hey awesome John, thank you for sharing the frame stats!

Personally I've always found these statistics very useful, especially when benchmarking my PC, so its a great tool for us as console owners too.
I think it's even more relevant for games like Apex where large frame drops are detrimental to gameplay and being able to see the specific differences there is very helpful. If it's not too much trouble for you guys I think there's a good number of your viewers who would appreciate the extra layer of data with future analysis videos.

I'm happy to post more if it helps in the future.

I guess the reason why don't is due to the cap. You can see that the average frame-rate in both cases is just about 60. The info would be much more meaningful if the frame-rate were uncapped as we could truly understand what each machine can do. It's also nice in cases where 60 is rarely achieved (Hitman was great for this on base consoles). Still, I can tack it on if you like.

severianb · Feb 8, 2019

YuriLowell said:
Base Xbox is really showing its age.

It's really showing that developers are not spending the time to optimize for the bizarre RAM configuration on the base Xbox models. They have actually come out and said this.

Anyone who cares about this stuff should just trade in thier OG or S Xbox One for a Xbox One X. I'm so glad I did.

There was a brief moment in time when developers had the ESRAM figured out on the OG Xbox and the performance got VERY close to the PS4 in many games. The X1X release made all that hard work pointless.

severianb · Feb 8, 2019

Pryme said:
This is ridiculously hyperbolic.

Not really. As developers concentrate less and less on the old Xbox Ones, the games run worse and worse on them. My friend has a 2013 vintage Xbox One and an X. He HATES playing this game on the old one.

PeskyToaster · Feb 8, 2019

I wonder what the reasons were for picking the Source engine back in TF1. I'm sure there were some business reasons but I'd like to know more about the technical aspects of the decision. Wasn't there a doc about the game? I wonder if it covered that?

tyfon · Feb 8, 2019

Nice video.
Seems to be performing well on all console models except one.

Are you doing a PC version of this video too? :)

Nintendo · Feb 8, 2019

Dark1x Have you tested how changing the FoV on consoles affects the dynamic resolution and framerate?

RivalGT · Feb 8, 2019

PeskyToaster said:
I wonder what the reasons were for picking the Source engine back in TF1. I'm sure there were some business reasons but I'd like to know more about the technical aspects of the decision. Wasn't there a doc about the game? I wonder if it covered that?

They were familiar with the engine, and wanted something that worked well on 360 and PS3. https://www.slashgear.com/titanfall-playstation-3-edition-discovered-in-production-code-18317309/

Ascenion · Feb 8, 2019

Base Xbox is sub HD? How the fuck is that even possible even if it isn't a constant thing. My god.

ThreepQuest64 · Feb 8, 2019

They did use the default fov, though? Unplayable for me with the fov on 70. I have it on 100 and the Pro often dips below 60, but it's alright and still enjoyable.

I'm very satisfied with the performance on PC though.

tomofthepops · Feb 8, 2019

Were these at the default FOV levels ? I'd be curious to see how turning that to the max affects resolution etc.

khamakazee · Feb 8, 2019

What are the chances the Xbox One X becomes the base and the S model doesn't get any more support once the next Xbox comes out?

tyfon · Feb 8, 2019

khamakazee said:
What are the chances the Xbox One X becomes the base and the S model doesn't get any more support once the next Xbox comes out?

I'd be really surprised if ps4/pro or xbox/x got new games at all after the new systems launch outside of FIFA (which still release a PS3 version).
"Buy the new PS5 to play these awesome games... which can also be played on your old consoles.."

pswii60 · Feb 8, 2019

tyfon said:
I'd be really surprised if ps4/pro or xbox/x got new games at all after the new systems launch outside of FIFA (which still release a PS3 version).
"Buy the new PS5 to play these awesome games... which can also be played on your old consoles.."

Did you miss the first two years of this gen?

tyfon · Feb 8, 2019

pswii60 said:
Did you miss the first two years of this gen?

Actually .. yes..
I was a PC only player until about 2016ish!

But the first two years was sort of dry when it came to 1st party games wasn't it?

anotheronebois · Feb 8, 2019

SG-17 said:
Unlocked framerates and variable resolutions are futureproofing for the next gen of consoles so the games can reap benefits without needing a special optimization patch.

Maybe for single player games. GaaS will 100% get an update anyways.

FacelessSamurai · Feb 8, 2019

SG-17 said:
Unlocked framerates and variable resolutions are futureproofing for the next gen of consoles so the games can reap benefits without needing a special optimization patch.

All games should be like this and as far as I can remember, it is what MS suggested to developers when making games to make it easier to support the X and it also makes sense for this type of game since it'll surely be played next gen, except it will now be a locked 4K at 60fps.

pswii60 · Feb 8, 2019

tyfon said:
Actually .. yes..
I was a PC only player until about 2016ish!

But the first two years was sort of dry when it came to 1st party games wasn't it?

It was, and outside of first party games almost everything was cross-gen, and it'll be the same next generation.

big_z · Feb 8, 2019

Other than the big spikes on the S not that bad of performance out of the gate for a battle royal game. Hopefully a patch or two smoothens things out further.

tyfon · Feb 8, 2019

pswii60 said:
It was, and outside of first party games almost everything was cross-gen, and it'll be the same next generation.

I guess you're right at least about 3rd party.
But I doubt they will drop the base consoles if they do cross-gen. Is that even allowed by MS/Sony? I haven't seen any X or Pro exclusive game yet.

khamakazee · Feb 8, 2019

tyfon said:
I guess you're right at least about 3rd party.
But I doubt they will drop the base consoles if they do cross-gen. Is that even allowed by MS/Sony? I haven't seen any X or Pro exclusive game yet.

There is no exclusives yet. I doubt Sony will ever for the Pro but Microsoft might use the X as a base next gen since it was such a huge gap between it and the base Xbox One.

DominicanPower · Feb 8, 2019

I was getting frame drops on a 1060 and I put a lot stuff on low.

koshiro · Feb 8, 2019

DominicanPower said:
I was getting frame drops on a 1060 and I put a lot stuff on low.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I have a 1050 and get a silky smooth 60fps with a bunch of settings cranked (except for textures cos 2gb vram sad life). Are your drivers up to date? What res are you running?

DominicanPower · Feb 8, 2019

koshiro said:
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I have a 1050 and get a silky smooth 60fps with a bunch of settings cranked (except for textures cos 2gb vram sad life). Are your drivers up to date? What res are you running?

My framerate was uncapped. I was playing on a 144hz monitor.

Imitation Of Life · Feb 8, 2019

JahIthBer said:
They all hit 60fps, what you will get is better LOD's with better CPU's, but they have to patch that in.

They hit it, but they sure a heck don't hold it. That's on addition to resolution changing. It solid, but even mid-gen is making lots of compromises. Ryzen should make these current games a locked 60fps.

**Edit Average framerate is much better than I expected. Without seeing the numbers they made it seems worse.

statham · Feb 8, 2019

900p on PRO? what year is it?

/s a patch or two will help both.

Imitation Of Life · Feb 8, 2019

pswii60 said:
Did you miss the first two years of this gen?

3rd parties will do it for sure, but probably not first party. Microsoft might try for whole, but I doubt Sony will except for already announced games like TLOU2, DS, Dreams and GOT definitely having next-gen upgrades. And of course MLB.

rahzel · Feb 8, 2019

khamakazee said:
What are the chances the Xbox One X becomes the base and the S model doesn't get any more support once the next Xbox comes out?

I don't see this happening for a few reasons. I don't think they can bring the price of the XB1X low enough to make it a justifiable purchase over next gen consoles (assuming a 399-499 launch). They kind of target the same demographic (core gamers). Plus XB2 is likely to have BC, so it doesn't make much sense for XB1X to exist when next gen. starts... best to continue to sell the XB1S alongside the XB2 IMO. Or release a new XB1 sku that's a cut-down XB1X for ~299, but I think that is unlikely as I think the demand for XB1 will drop off a cliff when next gen. starts... probably not worth investing money in making a new SKU.

Same goes for Sony, I think they will discontinue PS4 Pro when next-gen starts and continue to support and sell PS4 for a few more years. Unlike XB1S, I think the base PS4 still has some life in it. Clearly there's still a big demand for it at 199.

khamakazee · Feb 8, 2019

rahzel said:
I don't see this happening for a few reasons. I don't think they can bring the price of the XB1X low enough to make it a justifiable purchase over next gen consoles (assuming a 399-499 launch). They kind of target the same demographic (core gamers). Plus XB2 is likely to have BC, so it doesn't make much sense for XB1X to exist when next gen. starts... best to continue to sell the XB1S alongside the XB2 IMO. Or release a new XB1 sku that's a cut-down XB1X for ~299, but I think that is unlikely as I think the demand for XB1 will drop off a cliff when next gen. starts... probably not worth investing money in making a new SKU.

Same goes for Sony, I think they will discontinue PS4 Pro when next-gen starts and continue to support and sell PS4 for a few more years. Unlike XB1S, I think the base PS4 still has some life in it. Clearly there's still a big demand for it at 199.

You're probably right about the price of the X, I dont see it getting down to $199 within the next year or two. Good point.

OrdinaryPrime · Feb 8, 2019

I don't think anyone would be surprised at these results. As always, appreciate DF and these videos.

ShadowFox08 · Feb 8, 2019

There's pretty big performance gaps between base and mid gen. Not just 2-4x resolution and higher framerates, but higher textures, texture filters, but ambient occlusion, and higher shadows and textures present. What's the major bottleneck here... ? Must be a gpu and ram heavy game.

Makes me wonder if these games were built on mid gen consoles first tbqh.

Hey Please · Feb 8, 2019

Anyone else getting 404'd while trying to access the video file page on DF's site?

Dark1x · Feb 9, 2019

i-Lo said:
Anyone else getting 404'd while trying to access the video file page on DF's site?

Try the HEVC. I had an issue with the H264 and need to re-up

Ombala · Feb 9, 2019

Yikes base Xbox is having a rough time, and we need to remember that that's the Xbox plattform most ppl play on.
I know ppl like to focus on XB1X here byts that's not the plattform most ppl play on

Digital Foundry: Apex Legends: Every Console Tested - Which Can Sustain 60fps Gameplay?

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