lol at people saying series x is doomed. Playing it on my series x and it's gorgeous. Don't notice these frame rate "drops" at all.
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Digital Foundry: Assassin's Creed Valhalla: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Next-Gen Comparison!
- Thread starter chandoog
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YouTube and Twitter is eating this up. As time goes on things will probably swing in Xbox favor just based on what DF and Matt have said in the past. Some people in this thread will be eating crow lol.
At the end of the day both consoles are extraordinary. Can't wait when cross gen games go away so we can see the full potential of these beast.
At the end of the day both consoles are extraordinary. Can't wait when cross gen games go away so we can see the full potential of these beast.
Honestly, this all sounds like stuff that will be patched over time. I think it's way way too early to suggest that PS5 will be THE multiplatform console for this generation (in all likelihood it will end up being XSX).
PS5 dev tools have been universally praised for how polished, full-featured, and straight-forward they are since early 2020. While at the same time it's not exactly a secret that Series X dev tools came in hot and are still undercooked.
We'll see how the plays out in the long term but it absolutely could be "how these things work".
I'm not talking about any games other than DMCV and ACV in that post. Can you explain why XSX struggles with the fight in the room with the curtains more than any other bit in their testing? It wasn't a bottleneck at all on PS5, despite most everything else running almost in parallel.
If the PS5 has a performance advantage we would expect any section the PS5 dips at, for the XSX to dip harder, or the areas where the XSX barely dips for the PS5 not to dip. That's what we see in most of the footage ACV. What we see in the section they highlight as odd, *is* odd, because the XSX drops a good deal more there and the PS5 doesn't drop at all, unlike what you see everywhere else.
So no, I am not suggesting every performance drop is a bug, but the worst case scenario that people are talking about for ACV looks like one to me. Remove that, and you still have the PS5 with a performance lead. Just not a 20% lead.
The same thing was said about RT performance when Microsoft touted the Series X could leverage 25 Tflops worth of (whatever that really means) HW accelerated RT performance, and some were even comparing it with an RTX 2080 Super/Ti, and yet in Dictators Watch Dogs Legion comparison the Series X (and presumably PS5 too) ray tracing isn't presently even on par with an RTX 2060 Super.
DRS and physical texture resolution have nothing to do with each other in this case. DRS could cause a texture to be "blurry" when reduced, but DRS isn't the cause of texture differences in my original post. Hence my "like for like" post. You can see DRS isn't in play due to the neck line and straight edges.
??? I don't doubt DRS is in the game, and DRS doesn't apply in my first post.
Ah, so you admit you were wrong when you said Microsoft said nothing of the sort then? They did in fact make a dig at Sony and try to claim that the variable clocks made the system less consistent and stable and it would only allow boasting about a higher TF number.
And yes actually, Cerny spoke in depth about the differences between a "fast and narrow" approach vs "wide and slow" in his deep dive if you watch it and he spoke of the disadvantages of their faster clock speed approach (fast and narrow), namely the problem with needing to dissipate more heat.
Nobody said that. We just know the PS5 has a full toolkit that has existed longer, while Xbox introduced a new one. And nobody made this up. Journalists like Jason Schreier and the guys at DF put this out there because devs themselves have said the Xbox SDK is being finished still and has been a pain point that they didn't have to deal with on the longer established PS5 tools. It's a valid question that is up in the air, hence DF continuously bringing up that devs are expressing it as a setback for getting onto Series X.
anyone with remotely A brain can know that these Beefy GPUs are going to outperform a APU. There is a reason for that, and even attempting to equate equivalent across architectures is ridiculous. You cant do a best guess until the AMD GPUs are in hand.
A uber fanboy. same person euqating the XSX to a 2080ti Super lol absolute fud.
Kind of an aside, but I really hope they update Minecraft with path tracing on next gen consoles. I believe that's where the performance comparisons to 2080 Super came from, but we don't really know how similar MS's path tracing is to Nvidia's on that title. It looks fabulous on RTX, and the performance hit is real, so I can't imagine that it could look as good on XSX or PS5, but I'd sure love to see it.
Literally nobody said this. What people are talking about are the tools being newer on Xbox that could explain some of the results. We know from reliable insiders that Xbox tools aren't as mature as those from Sony and DF said this in their article, which is highlighted in this post.
Digital Foundry: Assassin's Creed Valhalla: PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ Series S Next-Gen Comparison!
Probably worth pulling to some of the key things from that article: Anyone who's worked on software knows that non-final SDKs are a nightmare for release software. Things don't work correctly, replacement APIs that used to work one way are less performant in the way you used them and need to...
www.resetera.com
So the Xbox tools becoming better is gonna suddenly do what? Give a 50% boost to performance for XSX so that there is an obvious gap in the other direction? And the PS5 tools are never going to improve ever again, ceiling reached?
The point is that people are making some big assumptions about how the future is going to go based on very vague notions. Whereas the hard evidence in front of us is showing a very different trend.
I don't think there's a lot of excuses being made. Series X has the better GPU so it's a legitimately interesting discussion in trying to find out why real-world performance is behind right now.
It's nonsense. 'SFS' is a marketing term for a collection of technologies, none of which would have anything to do with performance vs the PS5 in a like for like setup where an engine is doing the same things on both. The idea that the GPU won't perform in an ordinary way - or worse than the PS5's, or will apply some sort of performance penalty - if you don't do texture streaming, or don't use sampler feedback to drive texture streaming, or that the drivers have to perform 'hacks' if you don't do these things makes zero sense whatsoever.
This is pointless. We know what the hardware itself is. Neither of them skipped chances to dig at the other. We all saw the complaints about Xbox being friendly to the idea of cross gen for first party, echoed by a Playstation exec. Only to then see whiplash when the PS5 lineup we know of was revealed to largely be cross gen. It got PS plenty of flack for trying to score against Xbox on the topic to sound more technically forward-thinking.
Vague notions? Its based on what we have known about computing power for quite a long time.
No. No. No. No.
Please try to catch up with the thread, and please read what developers are telling DF, because it isn't that the tools are bad on XSX compared to PS5.
Ok then, show me some other scenes that display this difference in texture resolution if you think it really is a factor here, other than that single scene.
One side or another, honestly finding that sort of texture work on a late 2020 game on the character model is very, very disappointing. How can Ubisoft still pull that sort of thing baffles meSomething DF didn't touch on. There are some obvious texture quality differences at times. I noticed them watching in 1440p, so I upped it to 4k, and I could see them in motion. Obviously you have to stick to moments where the lighting seems to cast the same on the models, but in my first example, on the left here, there is an obvious (if you're doing a tech/magnifying technical look at it...level obvious..lol) texture resolution difference.
The texture resolution isn't even close if we're being picky. Granted, it's like Ultra vs Very High...lol. It doesn't appear to be a dynamic resolution situation at all.
Seems like that would be hard to miss with how closely things are looked at.
Just as many people are making some big assumptions about the performance of one cross-gen launch title developed on 9 simultaneous platforms in the midst of a pandemic as well though.
Point is that we don't know how things will play out in the coming months of years. Realistically this thread is a waste of everyone's time, but oh well. It's all in good fun.
The only thing I've read that made me raise an eyebrow, was that *at least in the summer* in order to run cpu code multi-threaded you had to use a workaround. Which sure doesn't *sound* great, even if its completely unrelated to anything we're seeing in ACV (and I have no reason to presume it explains what we're seeing because nothing I've seen makes me think we're looking at a CPU bottleneck).
It's not. Of course the PS5 environment will improve as well.
That info isn't accurate.
Again, nobody said we know for sure things will flip to where many expected them to be as far as a gap. But there's a reason DF and devs in the industry keep saying that Xbox tools are something to watch because they were not in a good state for launch and devs said it was having an effect. People are raising a valid question that is echoed by comments coming from devs themselves. It may be responsible for this, or maybe not. But its fair to consider as the potential big culprit.
Of course they will. The question is how drastically can Xbox tools improve compared to PS5. Which of course no one here knows.
I am caught up on the thread. And I do understand that the XSX dev tools are further behind. All of that is fine by me. What I'm saying is: Those tools getting better is not going to suddenly make the XSX pull ahead and become the clear winner in these comparisons. We can't make any such assumption right now. People made all kinds of assumptions about these consoles based on specs and here we are with these results. The only thing we can use as evidence with any confidence is the objective analysis of real performance results, as shown here by DF.
That's all I'm saying.
Oh yeah, there is something up with the software stack somewhere that is sub-optimal. But that particular SFS explanation makes no sense.
Already posted ? Not mine btw
Holy shit. Couldn't help but chuckle. MS should make this into a T-shirt too.
Well it does have more tear-aflopsAlready posted ? Not mine btw
I do. They will both improve, probably the XS more so simply because they are worse at this point.
I said perhabs, but go on I guess.
He mentioned the heat issue to be fair, but he didn't talk about the rendering benefits of going wide and slow. Which is to be expected as he promotes to PS and Xbox architects do the same for their console.
You seem salty. You can always read the post I linked to hear from someone working with API. Obviously Sony tools will improve too and no console is maxed out. But things don't have to improve at the same rate. It's funny you talk about making big assumption and then talk about a different trend. There is no trend yet.
What he said is nonsense (the linked "dev"), but SFS is not nonsense. It's something developed by Microsoft. I guess you mix this up with SF, which both consoles have.
It's less about the maturity of the tool, and entirely about the *familiarity* the devs have with the tools. And I'm not telling you it has anything to do with these performance differences, all I'm seeing there is speculation.
But the reason it is *reasonable* to expect things to improve more on the XSX with regards to the tools, is that devs are still learning them on the XSX (since they're brand new) where as on the PS5 side, the tools are very very similar to the PS4 tools.
That was due to resolution differences though, this time round PS is seeing higher FPS, less tearing, despite the fact resolution is the same, assets the same etc.
Haha I suspect this won't read quite the way you intended it to for many people.