Digital Foundry: Beyond 60FPS: How Running Games at 144FPS/240FPS Can Improve The Gameplay Experience

Waaghals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
318
Having not seen the video, how realiable are these statistics in the OP?
How many people have actually been properly tracked? Is it a representative sample, or is it vulnerable to outliers?

Are the people who buy 1080s and up more likely to be more experienced (or aware that they are more fundamentally more skilled) when they buy the card?

I am not going to pass judgement on the video itself without having seen it, so I am going to do that now.
 

Mass Effect

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,093
Linus made a video like this as well recently. It wasn’t really super scientific, but it did show clear improvements at higher framerates.

It's really hard to go back to 60 after 144. Feels like mud. It could definitely effect your gameplay.

30 is blehhhhh.
Oh come on it’s not that bad.

Going from 144 to 30 is rough though. Takes a while to get used to.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,787
I just don't see myself dropping down image quality for the sake of higher framerates. I scratch my head at people with high end PCs still running games at 1080p.
 

Arkanius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,693
This is the type of stuff that everyones notices when they play at higher framerates.
Glad there was some testing done to prove this.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,209
USA USA USA
I just don't see myself dropping down image quality for the sake of higher framerates. I scratch my head at people with high end PCs still running games at 1080p.
Just for the sake of discussion, if the choice was clear and simple as 4k at 60 or 1080 at 144 I would choose the latter every single time.

Oh come on it’s not that bad.

Going from 144 to 30 is rough though. Takes a while to get used to.
I mean it's playable, it just feels... Not good.
 

rabathehutch

Member
Nov 1, 2017
17
I once got an email from Nvidia telling me if I upgraded my 1070ti to a 2000 series card I would see an improvement in fps on Apex Legends and thus would get more kills.
 

Roarer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
53
Gothenburg, Sweden
Not surprised really. Gaming as a sport is clearly based on quick reflexes.

As someone who never plays competitively though , I don't see the point in anything above 100 hz. I'm fine with 60 as well and would much rather have higher graphical fidelity.

The gaming audience is large enough that many different interests and preferences fit. Some of us will never care about reaction speeds and 'winning', but rather about immersion.
 

Ganado

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,052
Just bought a 2080 Super without remembering that I used DVI with my 970 and my screen doesn't support >60hz over HDMI at 1080p so I have to wait for a DP cable. My eyes...
 

Tezu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
182
I just don't see myself dropping down image quality for the sake of higher framerates. I scratch my head at people with high end PCs still running games at 1080p.
I have a 1080p 144hz monitor and I'd rather play with it for the rest of my life than playing with a 4k or even 8k @ 60fps (assuming I have the hardware for it). With that said, I'd say 1440p g-sync IPS and 144hz is the sweet spot. But those monitors are too expensive for me.
 

Edgar

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,641
I did not realize 60fps was considered barely playable slideshow . And here I am getting all giddy for my new buid where i will play games at 60 coming from console games at 30 fps
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,600
UK
Consider me a recent 120fps convert.

Finally got my gaming PC this year (after being console only for almost two decades) along with my C9 OLED. And basically, holy shit.

At 120hz there is ZERO motion blur (like the old CRT days but without the flicker) and it feels so damn responsive it's ridiculous.

2D platformers are a night and day improvement over 60fps at 120fps. Firstly, because there is no motion blur it means the beautiful art of Hollow Knight or The Messenger remain totally pristine in motion. Switching back to 60fps and everything looks so muddy in comparison; it's amazing how quickly you get used to 120. And secondly, the input latency is so much lower it makes twitch platformers an absolute bliss to play.

Unfortunately the C9 only currently supports a maximum of 1440p at 120hz though, albeit there is a firmware update later this year to HDMI 2.1 which will provide 120hz at full native 4k on the glorious OLED screen.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,305
That jump from 60 to 144 is insane. But I'm honestly surprised there's still that big of a difference from 144 to 240. I thought the diminishing returns would be more impactful.

I guess that's just another level to someday reach.

I doubt we would need anything above 8K/240fps.

I just don't see myself dropping down image quality for the sake of higher framerates. I scratch my head at people with high end PCs still running games at 1080p.
That's where I was until 144hz. Now, I won't go 4K until I can hit 144fps there. It sucks because these high framerates WILL ruin your perception of what is smooth.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,468
I did not realize 60fps was considered barely playable slideshow . And here I am getting all giddy for my new buid where i will play games at 60 coming from console games at 30 fps
Be happy with what you’re happy with. The alternative is to spend a bunch more money just to become habituated to a higher standard and reduce the range of options you can enjoy.
 

OldBenKenobi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
756
I recently built my PC a few months ago with a 9700k plus 2080 combined with a Gsync 144hz monitor is just pure insanity coming from a PS4/X. I had not been in the PC gaming scene for 15 plus years and now that I am back, I will he staying here for sure.
 

Rayge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,181
I've been playing FFXIV at 144FPS and sometimes I'll bump it down to 60 or 30FPS just for fun and it really does give a different experience. At 60 FPS it isn't bad but it just feels so sluggish. At 72 FPS is when things start to smooth out a little bit.

I can play at lower framerates, but there needs to be some huge graphical fidelity gain from playing at that low and it can't be a multiplayer game.

But for me I prefer 72FPS+.

Has anyone ever tried a 240hz monitor? Is there a difference from 120FPS to 240FPS? That slow motion comparison looks amazing from the video, but I wonder if you see the same smoothness at full speed.
 

CesareNorrez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,068
It’s wonderful that there are FX breakthroughs like ray tracing, but that always tells me standard 60 FPS becomes less and less likely. The great thing about PC gaming is that the best supported games will see FPS increases as PCs get more powerful. It’s great to revisit a game and play with improved frame rate. Makes having a back log fun to go through.
 

ThatOneGuy

Member
Dec 3, 2018
262
I'll chime in with my experience as well. I've got an ultrawide 3440x1440p monitor at 144hz and it really is night and day when playing back to back with my PS4 pro.

I still enjoy my console experience just fine but I'm excited for next gen when we can hopefully get into consistent 60fps titles across the board, at minimum.
 
OP
OP
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,570
Having not seen the video, how realiable are these statistics in the OP?
How many people have actually been properly tracked? Is it a representative sample, or is it vulnerable to outliers?

Are the people who buy 1080s and up more likely to be more experienced (or aware that they are more fundamentally more skilled) when they buy the card?

I am not going to pass judgement on the video itself without having seen it, so I am going to do that now.
The "hours played per week" axis should be a proxy for how experienced players are. The more you play per week, the better you are, and beyond about 5 hours a week, you start seeing noticeable differences between performance levels.
 

Nekrono

Member
May 17, 2018
319
Going back to 60 it's not as bad as people make it out to be, especially if you have adaptive sync tech and if it's a slow paced game.
 

jotun?

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,625
Maybe they will get some funky motion interpolation/smoothing so that 60 FPS content looks really good at 120hz.
The difference isn't so much about how it looks as how it feels. If you're just watching something, it's not particularly noticeable. But when you're actually aiming around, the feedback loop in your hand-eye coordination improves significantly.

Simple interpolation doesn't help in that regard, and would actually make things worse because you can't interpolate the extra in-between frame until the next frame has already been processed, introducing lag. They'd have to do something like the reprojection technique used in VR, where they look at user input in between frames and just move the previous frame a little bit to update the view before the next real frame is ready
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,898
Yup it's why PC gaming is still 1080p for me (or rather 3x1080p but that's not important), because 4K gsync 144hz with a good IPS panel is rare and expensive.
60fps is okay if you play with a controller. 30fps is just a mess.
 

mogwai00

Member
Mar 24, 2018
147
60+ FPS are a blessing also when it comes to graphics fidelty.
Starting with IQ: you have more informations per second and things look more stable and cleaner.
Structures feel more solid, animations smoother and more lifelike and special effects, well, more special.
 

Unknownlight

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,199
I'm not a PC gamer, and I'm almost scared of trying 144+ fps because I think it'll ruin me. There already aren't nearly enough 60fps games on consoles.

Even without trying it, one series where it's very obvious to me that 60fps isn't good enough is the 2D Sonic games. Things move so quickly when you try speedrunning levels in those games that it soon becomes a blurry mess.
 

oxymoron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
136
Having not seen the video, how realiable are these statistics in the OP?
Not even a little bit. They're comparing the K/D ratio people who have cutting-edge video cards with people who have cards from 6 years ago and saying "the difference is due to framerate", but people who make an effort to stay up to date on their hardware are much more ~serious gamers~ than people who just keep trucking along with their old hardware. You can't compare the two groups meaningfully and say "see the framerate is the difference".

They try to hand wave that away by comparing by hours/week played, but the fundamental issue remains.
 

NoctisLC

Member
Jun 5, 2018
120
Playing on a 1080p Gsync 144hz I could definitely feel an improvement in responsiveness with mouse control, didnt really notice anything when using pad though.

Ultimately i'm happier playing at 4k60 on my OLED than I am on the monitor. I feel like the responsiveness isnt worth the huge drop in visual fidelity.
 

Shadout

Member
Oct 27, 2017
541
True. The only reason I suck at shooters is that Nvidia make too weak GPUs.

I jumped unto a 144hz monitor last year. While noticeable, it didnt feel that important to me in games. But then, I pretty much never play shooters. Fastest game I play is probably Rocket League.
 

takriel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,933
I'll chime in with my experience as well. I've got an ultrawide 3440x1440p monitor at 144hz and it really is night and day when playing back to back with my PS4 pro.

I still enjoy my console experience just fine but I'm excited for next gen when we can hopefully get into consistent 60fps titles across the board, at minimum.
Consoles will never prioritize 60 fps unfortunately. The next big thing will be 4k/30
 

rodrigolfp

Member
Oct 30, 2017
941
Not even a little bit. They're comparing the K/D ratio people who have cutting-edge video cards with people who have cards from 6 years ago and saying "the difference is due to framerate", but people who make an effort to stay up to date on their hardware are much more ~serious gamers~ than people who just keep trucking along with their old hardware. You can't compare the two groups meaningfully and say "see the framerate is the difference".

They try to hand wave that away by comparing by hours/week played, but the fundamental issue remains.
? Is it not the same people playing on gtx 1050 60hz vs rtx 20xx 240hz?
 

Mass Effect

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,093
I just don't see myself dropping down image quality for the sake of higher framerates. I scratch my head at people with high end PCs still running games at 1080p.
You must not play fast-paced or competitive multiplayer games. Having a higher frame rate in a game like Gears of War is far more important than 4K.

I’d even say the same thing applies to something like Devil May Cry. The extra fluidity helps with executing combos.
 

Mecha Meister

Member
Oct 25, 2017
580
120-144Hz is revolutionary in my opinion. Going to that from 60-75 fps is insane! I haven't even tasted 240Hz, but I'm guessing it must be crazy!