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Digital Foundry Direct: PlayStation 5 Controller, UI, SSD News Reaction + Analysis

Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Ok, this is the second time I have seen DF guys feeling down on Nex Gen console specs. During First Reveal, they said that RT and fastest SSD is just buzzword used by Cerny. Now they are speculating that RT hardware won't be as impressive as Nvidia's current offering.

I am here just hoping they are wrong on this matter.

Also, I will correct them here. There was no confusion on RT when even the interviewer tweeted that RT was talked in regards to visual feature not just audio
Why would AMD's RT solution be as impressive as Nvidia's? The former has shown an inability to compete with the latter even on equal footing, and consoles introduce serious constraints.
 
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low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,456
Ok, this is the second time I have seen DF guys feeling down on Nex Gen console specs. During First Reveal, they said that RT and fastest SSD is just buzzword used by Cerny. Now they are speculating that RT hardware won't be as impressive as Nvidia's current offering.

I am here just hoping they are wrong on this matter.

Also, I will correct them here. There was no confusion on RT when even the interviewer tweeted that RT was talked in regards to visual feature not just audio
Sorry, you're not getting a full console with better specs for a lower price than my $800 video card. It ain't happenin.

But you have to understand how important it was to get their foot in the door with RT. Without it, you would have had literally the weakest, most anemic visual upgrade of a console generation ever in the history of consoles. Now, even with minimal RT hardware, it might even appear to be one of the bigger ones! RT accel definitely is a bigger visual jump than what we saw from PS3 to PS4 / PS4 Pro.

Worst case they can make RT effects with more static, that take longer to resolve, or are less sharp. IMO that doesn't matter much at all.
 

Bastables

Member
Dec 3, 2017
356
Taking an existing thing and improving/modifying it is still ultimately copying.

Also, Nintendo did rumble first of we’re going to play that game.
I think midway did with it‘s lightgun shooters like Terminator 2? Rumble was a thing in arcades well before the home.

oh a wiki search unearths that Sega did it in 1976 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haptic_technology

it also shows that the actual innovators were back in the 50s by govt labs.
Teleoperators are remote controlled robotic tools. When the operator is given feedback on the forces involved, this is called haptic teleoperation. The first electrically actuated teleoperators were built in the 1950s at the Argonne National Laboratory by Raymond Goertz to remotely handle radioactive substances.[56] Since then, the use of force feedback has become more widespread in other kinds of teleoperators, such as remote-controlled underwater exploration devices.
 
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Shpeshal Ed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,343
Melbourne, Australia
I wasn't playing who did it first. I just pointed out that the dualshock design means they can replace those motors with the VCAs.

If you really wanr to go down that "who did rumble first" thing, check out the Japanese Dual Analog controller that came out with rumble. It released at the same time as the N64 rumble pak.

Spooooky.
Rumble Pak released in Japan in April 97
DualShock released in Japan in November 97
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,580
Ok, this is the second time I have seen DF guys feeling down on Nex Gen console specs. During First Reveal, they said that RT and fastest SSD is just buzzword used by Cerny. Now they are speculating that RT hardware won't be as impressive as Nvidia's current offering.

I am here just hoping they are wrong on this matter.

Also, I will correct them here. There was no confusion on RT when even the interviewer tweeted that RT was talked in regards to visual feature not just audio
a low power draw console is going to be worse than a $600 gpu? No way!!??
 

console lover

Member
Feb 19, 2018
6,039
Yes, I forgot the wheels indeed. Most wheels already have a similar thing.
That's exactly what it is. And from my perspective, although it will never be like a force feedback wheel....if it can approximate it close enough, I would love to be able to save nearly $300 next gen. It's why I hope (and honestly expect) the scarlet controller to have this too, of both controllers have it, devs will utilize it
 

RingRang

Member
Oct 2, 2019
744
Hope the rumble isn't so loud it's notoceable the switch's rumble is fucking terrible for that
agreed. I even find It annoying with some games on the Xbox One controller. audibly loud buzzing from controller motors is not cool, it’s just annoying.

Sorry, you're not getting a full console with better specs for a lower price than my $800 video card. It ain't happenin.

But you have to understand how important it was to get their foot in the door with RT. Without it, you would have had literally the weakest, most anemic visual upgrade of a console generation ever in the history of consoles. Now, even with minimal RT hardware, it might even appear to be one of the bigger ones! RT accel definitely is a bigger visual jump than what we saw from PS3 to PS4 / PS4 Pro.

Worst case they can make RT effects with more static, that take longer to resolve, or are less sharp. IMO that doesn't matter much at all.
This post is dripping with hyperbole and PC owner defensiveness.

RT alone is a bigger jump than from PS3 to PS4? lol, no. The texture improvements and higher resolutions alone made that leap bigger. Even the prettiest PS3 games, like Uncharted 3 are clearly behind a game like Uncharted 4. RT only has a notable affect in isolated situations and environments. Better textures and resolutions can be noticed everywhere at all times.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,456
RT alone is a bigger jump than from PS3 to PS4? lol, no. The texture improvements and higher resolutions alone made that leap bigger. Even the prettiest PS3 games, like Uncharted 3 are clearly behind a game like Uncharted 4. RT only has a notable affect in isolated situations and environments. Better textures and resolutions can be noticed everywhere at all times.
Yeah but I have an RTX card a PS4 and a PS3. I'm saying how it is.

Yes, you should get excited about PS5 now.
 

Rosol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
319
I hope that we're not relying too much on digital foundry to make these determinations on what to make of next gen hardware - in the event they take on another large conflict of interest and score the deal to get to reveal the scarlett specs to the world as they did for the One X.
 
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RingRang

Member
Oct 2, 2019
744
Yeah but I have an RTX card a PS4 and a PS3. I'm saying how it is.

Yes, you should get excited about PS5 now.
I’m very excited about the PS5, but not because of ray tracing.

I see ray tracing on these new consoles as likely meaning lower frame rates as developers try and awkwardly force it into their game so they can loudly market the feature and put it on the back of the box. I’m much more excited at the prospects of higher frame rates and graphical refinement the PS5 can offer, but I fear ray tracing is going to show up to the party and spoil some of that.
 
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low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,456
I’m very excited about the PS5, but not because of ray tracing.

I see ray tracing on these new consoles as likely meaning lower frame rates as developers try and awkwardly force it into their game so they can loudly market the feature and put it on the back of the box. I’m much more excited at the prospects of higher frame rates and graphical refinement the PS5 can offer, but I fear ray tracing is going to show up tp the party and spoil some of that.
That's a fair apprehension, and you're right. I'm playing sub 1080p 60fps in some games to maintain max RT effects.

FWIW, RT effects can demand a lot of CPU processing power so none of the power will be going to waste.
 

MultiMoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,888
Silicon Valley
Rumble Pak released in Japan in April 97
DualShock released in Japan in November 97
I said Dual Analog, not Dualshock. Different controllers.

To be clear, I don't care who did what "first" as any new technology that enhances gameplay sounds good to me. So getting "HD rumble" style features and the "tension / rumble" triggers similar to XB1 for next-gen would be great, especially if all platforms had it and thus more devs would be willing to utilize it.
 

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,813
The Joycon have HD rumble. Unsure about the pro controllers.
The Pro Controller has it as well.

The Joycon is the Switch controller right? I can’t recall ever thinking it was different than any other rumble but I only played BOTW and Mario Odyssey on it
Correct. The most impressive thing I've personally experienced is when HAL made the HD rumble play a song in Kirby Star Allies. I Ihink I also noticed something with the way the scooter felt in Super Mario Odyssey. These were experienced on the Pro Controller. I don't know if the Joy-Con experience is different. I think I remember noticing something in ARMS, which I believe I played with the Joy-Con.

I believe there are a few showcase games, but I don't know if I've played them. I also don't really find rumble that memorable in general, so I'm probably forgetting some.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,133
I hope the DS5 puts the option and share buttons in spots that are a little less ass. Make the touchpad flush and you can shave some off at the bottom and put the buttons right above the speaker.
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,125
Italy
Isn't HD rumble on joycons some noisy piece of crap? this is what I've mostly read about at least.
I really hope isn't something really "buzzy" on DS5.

p.s. I really enjoyed the video btw, nice work DF.
 

Yesterday

Member
Oct 27, 2017
695
Isn't HD rumble on joycons some noisy piece of crap? this is what I've mostly read about at least.
I really hope isn't something really "buzzy" on DS5.

p.s. I really enjoyed the video btw, nice work DF.
Only when developers make it like that. if done well it’s a small subtle tapping. Like if you know someone with a switch turn on rumble and run in smash bros. And feel the subtle tapping the controller does in time with the character’s footsteps.
 
Nov 8, 2017
649
Within two sentences you go from "We don't know what Sony is cooking up" to "But we should totally talk about the negative implications I conjure up here!".
What I’m saying is that it’s tough to crown Sony for some sort of magical SSD tech vs PC SATA SSD or m.2 drives when they’ve said nothing other than it’s proprietary. And like the Digitial Foundry video illustrates, a proprietary drive brings all sorts of new questions and possible limitations.

With the limited amount of information we have at this time, we can only talk about what we know. SSD drives are still more expensive than mechanical drives, and a proprietary setup would make swapping the drives out, or adding externals like we did this generation, impossible. That is unless Sony has something figured out on that front as well. But without more information, how can we speculate otherwise?
 

Csr

Member
Nov 6, 2017
254
Ok, this is the second time I have seen DF guys feeling down on Nex Gen console specs. During First Reveal, they said that RT and fastest SSD is just buzzword used by Cerny. Now they are speculating that RT hardware won't be as impressive as Nvidia's current offering.
They are just being realistic, they are trying to estimate based on what we know.
 

Flappy Pannus

Member
Feb 14, 2019
245
and that’s just the GPU. Still need a CPU, RAM, SSD HDD, mother board, power supply, case, controller or keyboard/mouse.

it’s going to be comparable to something you can build for $500-$600.
...a year from now, at best. And assuming that $500-$600 PC doesn't require a profit margin for virtually all of the components. And I can bet you PS5/Next box games will need a larger than 8GB PC GPU to get the same quality textures.

Economies of scale, people. In GDDR6 alone Sony has massive bulk buying power over any GPU manufacturer for example.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,205
What I’m saying is that it’s tough to crown Sony for some sort of magical SSD tech vs PC SATA SSD or m.2 drives when they’ve said nothing other than it’s proprietary. And like the Digitial Foundry video illustrates, a proprietary drive brings all sorts of new questions and possible limitations.

With the limited amount of information we have at this time, we can only talk about what we know. SSD drives are still more expensive than mechanical drives, and a proprietary setup would make swapping the drives out, or adding externals like we did this generation, impossible. That is unless Sony has something figured out on that front as well. But without more information, how can we speculate otherwise?
That's the problem, people are doubting it thinking it requires a magical SSD tech when it really doesn't.
 
Sep 25, 2018
316
I am not defensive about it rather being more specific because on the contrary of what you both didn't acknowledge the fact the the haptic feedback coupled with the improved sound that comes from the speaker can create a more advanced immersion without forgetting that trigger resistance (which was compared to the XB1 trigger rumble but it is different) that add even more to the gameplay interaction so in sum neither the Switch nor the XB1 have those features combined together which add to the whole experience and that is what I am talking about.
And I agree that every console should have those features so eevry dev will be more willing to expolit them rather than superfically scratch the surface of possibilities for just one console.



Well said.
love your response on every system should have it I hope stadia controller have it too I’m still debating to check it out or not I got good internet
 

Bruceleeroy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,415
Orange County
The Pro Controller has it as well.



Correct. The most impressive thing I've personally experienced is when HAL made the HD rumble play a song in Kirby Star Allies. I Ihink I also noticed something with the way the scooter felt in Super Mario Odyssey. These were experienced on the Pro Controller. I don't know if the Joy-Con experience is different. I think I remember noticing something in ARMS, which I believe I played with the Joy-Con.

I believe there are a few showcase games, but I don't know if I've played them. I also don't really find rumble that memorable in general, so I'm probably forgetting some.
Interesting I'll fire up Odyssey so I can test it out
 

Burrman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,930
So is that design actually legit? I asked this in another thread and someone said it wasn’t but I keep seeing it everywhere. That can’t be fuckin real....
 

RestEerie

Member
Aug 20, 2018
7,798
So is that design actually legit? I asked this in another thread and someone said it wasn’t but I keep seeing it everywhere. That can’t be fuckin real....
Dev kits can be anything...

Why r so many people so fixated about the dev kit design? U ain't a dev, u r never owning that. Ps dev kits & final hardware are way different...

And yes, that dev kit design is real which again, doesn't matter at all to any of us.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,340
hmm never tried it on steam controller, is there anyone on here who use both I would assume Nintendo use it in a better way since it didn’t get as much word as mouth praise as Nintendo did when we use it with different games

no need to be defensive theres nothing wrong copying if it’s done right I didn’t like the Sony move controllers but they were still done decently
I use both, although Switch’s feel better (mostly due to better programming and use by games), I have to give credit for the Steam controller for being able to use the haptic rumble as speakers.