People do understand that, that's why they are asking for a simple disclaimer on a video that will expose this game to a lot of people who don't know about the issues with this game. Hello?
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Digital Foundry - Ion Fury - Every Console Tested - How An Ancient Engine Stresses Current-Gen CPUs
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People do understand that, that's why they are asking for a simple disclaimer on a video that will expose this game to a lot of people who don't know about the issues with this game. Hello?
We're talking about Eurogamer (not just John, who seems to be a good faith actor in all this), not your random friend who plays games every once in a while.
Hyrule Warriors does the same thing. Which is horrible, because it means it runs at mostly 60 FPS while docked with some drops... but at 30 FPS with drops in handheld.
Not sure about you but I wouldn't be content working for a company that allowed for employees to be directly transphobic toward their community through official channels of communication.
There's in secret and then there's allowing for your immediate community to become a cess pool where members and developers alike can join in to insult and lambast trans members of the community, seeking to educate them with transphobic misinformation. There's a difference between something happening in secret and something happening so loud that headlines are published about the homophobic content in the game which you double down on and refuse to remove.
The concept of not holding a company to account for it's mistakes because they were, obviously, committed by workers and not the entity itself is endlessly stupid and counter to part of what the concept of a company itself is for. Here in this thread we see why people don't wish for a single person working within one to be singled out and targeted, rather the company itself questioned for an answer when a concern is raised.
Naturally though whichever side you go down it's always deemed improper when the concern is around transphobia. Having to meet every checkmark for an acceptable complaint to be lodged and considered.
Yeah I don't know how many people who worked there were aware of that stuff until after the game's release, when the public actually became aware or what. I also don't know about any personal situations of the workers there - if they can move on now or not, etc.
I think it would be helpful to know what proportion of the people working there previously and those currently working there are responsible for this behavior. Also we'd have to know how much the porting company makes compared to the original developers. We'd have to know about any potential royalties or other benefits each person gets, etc...
I think people should complain, but we're talking about the decision of whether to promote / praise the game at all, or if all praise of the game should be prefaced by the facts of the situation. Like if we blackballed the game here, would that be a net positive? I don't think so.
As far as the DF video, I think talking about the issues with at least some of the original developers and management would be to bring it up somewhere in the video, but not in the beginning. And you should still do the video.
I don't think we have to know any of that to shun a product from a company that has refused to remove homophobic content from it and who had no issue with their employees being transphobic toward their own community. I don't think that needs a thorough investigation to validate. Which is why I'm disappointed that Digital Foundry put out a video showcasing it and praising it as one of the best games of last year.
Wait didn't they removed the homophobic content? I thought it was all out? I also thought they stopped the behavior. I wasn't aware of any ongoing bullshit.
Wasn't really aware that this is where things were. Is this still in the Switch version? Hard to believe Nintendo at least would allow a slur like that, no?
This post is laughable.
Who is punishing who? Some of you guys truly have a victim complex
For what it's worth I played through the entire game and didn't come across any hateful or bigoted content (unless you count 80's inspired bro-dude writing as such). Did they patch these things out? I'm unaware of the extent of the original content that featured these issues.
(EDIT: Ashlette, for some reason your post still got quoted even though I'd deleted it; sorry about the alert.)
This was widely reported on. If you Googled the game's name anywhere near release I'm betting it's the majority of what you'd see. It is not anywhere near something you'd need an "extensive background check" to find or have to be looking for to begin with.
And like... sometimes people know about shit because it affects them. Bigotry, y'know affects people who can't afford to just ignore it. And shouldn't have to ignore it, and reasonably want others to acknowledge there's an issue.
This was widely reported on. If you Googled the game's name anywhere near release I'm betting it's the majority of what you'd see. It is not anywhere near something you'd need an "extensive background check" to find or have to be looking for to begin with.
And like... sometimes people know about shit because it affects them. Bigotry, y'know affects people who can't afford to just ignore it. And shouldn't have to ignore it, and reasonably want others to acknowledge there's an issue.
I know somebody on a private discord at Naughty Dog who basically said most devs in the industry avoid ResetEra like the plague. Im not surprised Dark1x said fuck this shit im out.
Interesting. Few thousand GL draw calls does not sound too bad in general but considering how EDuke probably uses pretty outdated GL stuff and apparently does not sort calls it makes more sense.
While the original Doom code is surprisingly well designed and easy to read, Duke 3D is a bit of a mess. It has always been fascinating how smart people deal with complex problems. Some can turn difficult problems into sophisticated but simple mental models leading to designs that are easy to reason about for others. But if you are smart enough to handle a very complicated design with a lot of mutable state in your head that might work too. It's just a lot more difficult for other people to contribute and fix issues. And after a while even the smart author who once understood everything forgets and the code becomes a maintenance nightmare.
Working as a programmer it often seems that some people, especially juniors and managers appreciate complex solutions more than simpler ones solving essentially the same problem. And arriving to the simpler one might actually require a lot more work. Carmack's solutions were often quite easy to reason about while groundbreaking at the same time and I think it's big part of what makes someone an excellent programmer.
While the original Doom code is surprisingly well designed and easy to read, Duke 3D is a bit of a mess. It has always been fascinating how smart people deal with complex problems. Some can turn difficult problems into sophisticated but simple mental models leading to designs that are easy to reason about for others. But if you are smart enough to handle a very complicated design with a lot of mutable state in your head that might work too. It's just a lot more difficult for other people to contribute and fix issues. And after a while even the smart author who once understood everything forgets and the code becomes a maintenance nightmare.
Working as a programmer it often seems that some people, especially juniors and managers appreciate complex solutions more than simpler ones solving essentially the same problem. And arriving to the simpler one might actually require a lot more work. Carmack's solutions were often quite easy to reason about while groundbreaking at the same time and I think it's big part of what makes someone an excellent programmer.
I hope Dark1x (John) will return, but I can understand why he did, what he did.
The dog piling in here is unbearable, John is someone who is doing it because it's fun to him.
I read this thread rather quietly. So I can understand the devs of Naughty Dog as well.
There was no "dog piling". People, me included, pointed out in a very reasonable way that they are disappointed on how Dark1x and df handled that situation. If you don't think so, please point me towards posts where people were dog piling on him.
Yeah I've read about the situation, maybe dog piling was the wrong word.
And yes I also read about the Developer situation.
And I am honest, I cannot show you the post which states that directly.
It would be the best thing John would describe the situation, and why this happened,
then repeating the same issue over and over, or am I thinking wrong in this?
You are right, it would be nice to get a statement from them about the situation. I doubt that dark1x is allowed to just talk about it here in the forum, though. So if we are going to hear anything, it will be probably on the df Twitter or any other official channel.
I hope he will be allowed to talk about this in his Twitter, lets hope he gets the opportunity,
his content is great, it would be a shame to lose some one who likes to talk about technical stuff so much.
Thank you :)
I tried to go to his profile, giving me an oops error.
But probably because he narrowed down who can access his profile on Era.
They are not going to issue a statement because a handful of people in this thread are unhappy they made this video.
Regardless of someone's actual job, it's completely up to the team at Digital Foundry the decision to analyze a game and make content about it, while fully understanding that they have a large audience and that they're essentially promoting a game whose developers went on to say more than a few very problematic things.
This kind of sours my feelings on Digital Foundry, to be honest, which is sad because I love their content. It's just not a video I would've published at all.
This kind of sours my feelings on Digital Foundry, to be honest, which is sad because I love their content. It's just not a video I would've published at all.
Yes, hes gone. And in the vulnerable situation he's in its simply heartbreaking to see how he's been treated.
He's gone, i managed to speak to him before he left, and im still getting the same error.
You know, I can think of plenty of reasons why people in the industry avoid Resetera. This place being too progressive isn't one of them lol.
Which isn't to say Dark1x is wrong for leaving, I think it's understandable that he feels pressured because of this especially given he can't necessarily do anything about it. I think most here have been pretty understanding of that as well. I think it's ridiculous to say that situations like this is why developers don't want to come near this forum though.
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So critique is only allowed if it is positive or if the creator does not have a forum account?
User Banned (1 month): Dismissing concerns of bigotry.
Dark1x has been putting out great work and an awesome member here, and all you fucks cared about was tearing him down instead of just taking with him. Pathetic.
Does the gyro work well for you? It only does straight lines to me, from top to bottom or left to right, but no diagonals so far. :/
So just to be clear because people are blaming this forum for Dark1x leaving, this is the post where he said that he'd break away from posting for a while:
It's pretty clear that his frustration is at the developers, not this forum. And I think it's totally fair for him to take a break, it's pretty clear that he doesn't know how to handle this situation. And that's pretty understandable given that it's not a situation he was expected to be put in.
Clearly your not seeing a vulnerable individual behind the material, his health should be prioritised before any conversation taking place. Thread is all yours now, please continue.
Going by his post in the other thread, he was pissed off at the devs and didn't say anything about this forum. But it seems some of you have a narrative you want to fulfill so bad, so you spread misinformation and assumptions out of nowhere.
Yeah it's pretty blatant what some folks here are trying to do lol
He is not 'gone'. He said he'd step away for a while because he doesn't feel good. Also, he didn't accuse people or anything. He himself said it's shitty what the developers did.
It's pretty callous of you to immediately see this as people lacking compassion when:
1) many of us have tried to be nuanced, believe John to have acted in good faith, and have tried orienting the whole discussion towards what DF/Eurogamer as a whole should do about this (not just him). Like, it's not like people are insulting him or asking for him to lose his job. Asking for a gaming outlet to simply address a situation in a disclaimer is not that much to ask.
2) the original controversy specifically arose because developers were not being compassionate towards LGBT+ people. The criticisms exist precisely because people want more compassion.
You're just making the discussion needlessly inflammatory with this kind of drive-by posts.
Or, maybe I see the importance in pointing out when someone is (unknowingly) promoting the product of a hateful creator, even if that revelation hurts.
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Concerns of Bigotry and Attacking the Community Over Multiple Posts
Yes dozens of posters collectively wagging their finger at John for not being aware of a rather small controversy, questioning even his morals can be massively frustrating. There's zero doubt in my mind that the community could have behaved a bit more reasonably considering who the person in question is.
dark1x is a great poster here and you guys constantly give him shit for the dumbest reasons so I can imagine him getting fed up, but this particular thread is 100% valid. Disappointed in DF
Some of you act as if Dark1x is a child with not even the minimal capability of handling criticism. Have some respect and treat him as an adult.
He's said several times how much these pile-ons affect him.
Whatever, i'm out before I snap
Again, there was no pile-on, but a handful of people raising their concerns. For all the positive feedback he deservedly got for his videos in this forum, it is only fair to also allow us to point out shortcomings, especially if they have such severe implications.
Wasn't Build pretty much the work of a wiz kid who code it mostly by himself?
It's still amazing he managed to do it! I really should watch this video. Build was an intriguing piece of software in the middle of a revolution in gaming.
I think that was why I found this, and other videos on programming of that era, so interesting. Everything was new, there wasn't a best way to do something, so people were just inventing really unique solutions to problems.
I really speaks volumes of Carmack, isn't it? The engine he made was so well structured and implemented.
He did have a very different way of viewing game development though.
Man that youtube comment section is a dumpster fire. Interesting to note, nobody here is dogpiling, insulting or threatening John, just raising their concerns. Yet you see gators in the comments "fair warning, if you add a disclaimer you'll be sorry" type shit. People are already threatening to hate brigade and harass the guy if he "gives in to the SJWs"
Awesome and informative video, as always with Mr. Linneman. And as always with Mr. Linneman, I clicked "like" after watching, although the game itself is not up my alley - similarly to how I behave with Tim Rogers' videos, for example. Quality work speaks for itself.
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