because it is over 10tflops...his statement was in relation to stadia which uses GCN flops. something that PS5 and XBSX doesnt have to worry about being RDNA
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Digital Foundry: PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?
- Thread starter chandoog
- Start date
because it is over 10tflops...his statement was in relation to stadia which uses GCN flops. something that PS5 and XBSX doesnt have to worry about being RDNA
I think DF is going to really struggle with next gen and finding engaging points of discussion when it comes to console comparisons. Differences already feel minor now between the mid gen consoles. And I can totally imagine 400% zoom comparisons on distant jaggies on native 4k outputs next gen. And at that point you gotta wonder what the point is?
Specs don't matter as much as price and games do. It wouldn't be a stupid move to launch at 399$ again.
I think jason also said that there wasn't much difference between both systems, this is a pretty big difference
honestly even the differences at the start of the gen were exaggerated.
I don't know, I mean if you're willing to spend more money in order to get a premium experience, why would you buy a console?
i feel crazy repeating it...9.2 RDNA tflops is 11.5 GCN tflops. Jason's post was in relation to stadio which uses vega 56(a GCN part) and runs at 10.4 tflops.
Jason meant specifically the numbers irrespective of architecture. He said both Sony and MS are aiming higher than the 10.7 number.
I think it's feasible that the numbers are a bit higher for PS and a bit lower for Xbox. I personally think Xbox really wants the power crown so they went a little extra to make sure they have it.
Thats interesting. I don't doubt you're correct, but do you have a link where he explicitly states this?
Was the gap ever that big though? Pretty if the PS4 version was 1080p then the XB1 was 900p. 720p was only a thing when the PS4 version was 900 in the first place.
I can see a future where MS big play with the Xbox Series X is to advertise it as the pinnacle of Raytracing on consoles, sell it at a higher cost, and rely on developers to help justify the price point through strong Raytracing showcases.
Solid strategy, but it is a much bigger ask of developers compared to the Xbox One X's key differentiator, resolution.
Solid strategy, but it is a much bigger ask of developers compared to the Xbox One X's key differentiator, resolution.
Yeah, and with multiple 300GB BDXL discs or the 1TB ADs, it's a nice alternative, bringing the game back from work and playing after the install rather than having to wait for a couple of weeks of download to complete until some magic (5G/air balloons/whatever) happen in some places... worse if the download is corrupted at unlock date and requires to redownload it all because the preload package is not the post-release date package and cannot be corrected... if games start to get close or above 300GB territory and consoles ditch physical, i have to move if i want to continue playing big games.
It depends on what you consider a big difference to be. if the systems are pretty much the same outside of a 30% difference to GPU which is offset by resolution, you have to be really considering resolution to be the sticking point. Even XB1 had a very faulty memory set up between DDR3 and ESRAM to contend with in addition to the weaker GPU, something neither of these machines will have
Oh. Well either he must know something we dont know regarding Sony changing clocks since this data, or he just got this one wrong.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
Told y'all both Sony and MS were aiming to beat Stadia's number. Anyway, I'm no engineer, but my understanding from talking to people who are is that the CPU speed and the streaming capabilities of the high-end SSDs on both PS5 and XB2 will make wayyy more of a difference than teraflops, which...
www.resetera.com
Is this serious? Wow. Did you actually watch the video or just decide to curse and throw a temper tantrum?
Would it though in practice? Assuming the cpu and memory is near equal, and a possible ssd advantage to Sony. what wold those 3 tflops give you? I think diminishing returns would go strong.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
Told y'all both Sony and MS were aiming to beat Stadia's number. Anyway, I'm no engineer, but my understanding from talking to people who are is that the CPU speed and the streaming capabilities of the high-end SSDs on both PS5 and XB2 will make wayyy more of a difference than teraflops, which...
Thank you for digging this up. That said, I don't think this really negates Inuhanyou's hypothesis.
Also, here's the entire post for context (which I agree with)
You should've just stepped away from the keyboard. He put a lot of work into this video and it shows.
One thing I would like to clarify. While a 9.2TF RDNA would outperform a single Stadia GPU of 10.7TF, marketing it to the broader consumer base becomes incredibly challenging because a smaller number is a smaller number regardless of how performant it is. It is why Stadia claims "10.7TF", not "10.7 TF GCN".
Imagine how the marketing team would have get through to people- "Yes, it is 9.2TF buuu....". It's a hurdle of perception.
This is an enthusiast's forum and generally genuinely curious folks discussing in good faith would know that there are architectural efficiency upgrades that allows it perform better per TF than GCN. This is why MS is already in a better place because their TF figures surpass Stadia's regardless of architecture.
If Sony are really stuck with ~9.2TF machine, they probably will focus on everything else but that and let it be discovered when the product is launched (like Nintendo did with Switch).
Until Stadia upgrades it's Hardware...Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm
Told y'all both Sony and MS were aiming to beat Stadia's number. Anyway, I'm no engineer, but my understanding from talking to people who are is that the CPU speed and the streaming capabilities of the high-end SSDs on both PS5 and XB2 will make wayyy more of a difference than teraflops, which...
To keep the lights on? There will always be console warriors interested in head-to-head comparisons between PS and Xbox.
if this 9 vs 12 TF is really true, I don't see they be at the same point because that will be a big slap in the face of Sony for producing a less powerful machine and sell at the same price. I see a 399/499 PS5 vs 499/599 SX if 9 vs 12 is true. Unless MS really goes after Sony and sells at the same price point as Sony and provides a much more powerful machine by taking huge loses. If thats the case I doubt Sony will have the same success they had with PS4 vs X1. I guess we will find out soon.
Then Sony and MS will upgrade the hardware aswell like they did the current gen lol
I dont think they are stuck with it per se...if they have this is mind they decided on a target and felt like it would be best for their market. I dont think they internally would consider it a miscalculation to try and hide it.
Stadia has 10.7 TF at the moment and is running games worse than Xbox One X. Why should Sony or Microsoft be scared of them?
You're right, probably $999, taking a $500 loss on each unit sold. But I have some hope they wouldn't sell it for more than $799 US.
He literally spends the first chunk of the video talking about why he thinks it's authentic and also states that it still needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
I think Microsoft learned their lesson from Xbox One. I think if you're a fan of Xbox, you're never going to go hungry again. Series X will put food on the table. In other words, if you're a fan of Xbox, you will experience premium console graphics all generation long. Last generation it must have been painful for Microsoft seeing the power gap. But I don't think Microsoft is going to ever give it up again.
Microsoft said it: the Series X will eat monsters for breakfast.
Microsoft said it: the Series X will eat monsters for breakfast.
They put more effort into their video than you did with your post, grow up.
Doesn't work that way, I am afraid. Theirs HW is stackable by nature, kind of like Crossfire or SLi in simplistic terms. Of course, that's the concept.
Honestly, while I don't think it is a miscalculation, companies tend to highlight features that, they consider are better on their platform. In this case, they might simply come out with game demos that best illustrate the strengths of their next gen system instead of going into numbers. That's is what Nintendo did with Switch, a platform that is computationally starved compared to current gen HW.
I'm really curious who you guys are referring to here. But I also missed about 8 pages of this thread, so who knows?
Imagine feeling this entitled over free and optional content.
I mean, lets look at it this way. Games like Horizon or GoW with 4kCB look better than nearly any native 4K on the X.
CB is more than enough, especially when you factor in studio talent and other nifty optimization tricks.
I really think a 9tf ps5 @ 399 is so fucking smart for Sony. Their studios will still make top of the line, world-class graphics and at 399 Jim Ryans "fast on-boarding"(or w/e its called) will be a reality.
I mean, with services like Xcloud and PSNow you'll be able to stream most first party titles either on your PC or phone well within the next decade.
So, ignoring which console to buy and instead focusing on consoles in general, I think most people choose a console over PC because of the ecosystem and ease of use.
I probably wouldn't pay $1,000 for a home console. But if we're looking at a $400v$500 or $500v$600 difference then I'll easily choose the more powerful system at $100 more.
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I agree, but the problem we (enthusiasts) are in currently is we still have no 100% concrete confirmation of the TF number for either console being "GCN flops" or "RDNA flops". And no, Phil Spencer retweeting a link to an article that at one point speculates it could be RDNA flops doesn't count as a company confirming it. If it was so, they would say so. They would have already said it. You're right though in that it's at least supposedly confirmed as being higher than Stadia's 10.7.
I think the safer route is to just do the standard "how many flops" math of clockspeed x CU's x whatever to get the number, and then confirm what architecture. If it's GCN, then the number is what it is. If it's an RDNA or RDNA 2 chip, then we inflate that number because apparently the bare math doesn't tell the whole story.
tl;dr only MS is in the position of "marketing" their new box yet, and even they haven't come out and declared X number of TF's and which metric (GCN or RDNA) we should be applying to said number. So since a leak is just bare data on paper, that's not enough information to go by, and Sony isn't even in the marketing mode for PS5 yet, so the perception of that number doesn't matter to them. When they're finally in that "Tease n Talk" mode they may surprise us and either say "it is 9.2TF but it's RDNA, so technically that makes it 12TF RDNA" or something, or they could say yeah, the 9.2TF is in RDNA flops, or hell, they could tell us those are old numbers or from a test box and they have a completely different speed and CU setup now. Who knows.
(sorry for the rant)
